Malpractice bay 2.0 or WTF are you doing with my organs?

[Keroman]

 

NoDrop Saber SMG in one hand.

 

"Dead or alive, you're coming with me." POP POP POP WATCHIN' MOTHAFUCKAS DROP

 

I like the sound of these implants. It has the potential to both buff up security forces or to make antags more of a menace.

 

[Knightedskull]

 

And then it ends up like an all-IPC Security force.

 

"Your move, creep."

*Creep uses EMP!*

*It's super effective!*

 

[NTSAM]

All IPC sec forces are OK tho cause it's a known fact 90% of people aimspam the head.

[Earthdivine]

 

Err, it's the linear surgery from -tg- right now...

 

I'd imagine one could get around this by giving each surgery step a list of steps one could do after completing it, so that the structure of surgeries follows a more branching path...

I thought this is the reason we kept Bay surgery for so long even though it was shit?

 

[Crazylemon]

Branching surgery can come later - the sooner the PR is finished, the better, I'd say.

[HereticChurch]

Branching surgery can come later - the sooner the PR is finished, the better, I'd say.

[Professor Cupcake]

Less flexible surgery? Ew.

[Fethas]

 

 

Branching surgery can come later - the sooner the PR is finished, the better, I'd say.

[counterfeitguise]

 

A lot of this seems fairly interesting - so far basic surgery appears to be unchanged aside from being told you can't do two/three/four/what the fuck are you doing operations at the same time anymore, which was a pet peeve of mine in the first place. The Xeno organs thing - ehhh, whatever. Chances are you won't require it, but it seems neat to have implemented either way.

 

A further use for cybernetic pieces is a-okay with me.

 

I have a question though - operations for things like Shadowling Thralls (you enter their head and use a hemostat to remove the tumor, if I recall right) will stay the same, right? Or will those be different now in accordance with this new system?

 

[KingPhilipIII]

I've had someone 'Apply some screwdriver' during ghetto surgery because we were lacking bone gel. Still trying to figure out how that works. It was an admin though so unless that is legitimately possible, might have had something to do with it.

[FlattestGuitar]

No, it's normally possible. Unless you're operating on the skull you can use a screwdriver with a 75% chance of success. Same goes for a cable coil for clamping bleeders, a glass shard for a scalpel and a few more.

[Crazylemon]

I reckon the argument for the screwdriver, is that you're putting screws in place - used to hold fragments of bone together until they fully heal.

[Keroman]

Duct tape should be on the list of stuff to hold bones together, but WAY down near the bottom in terms of percentage for success.

[Tauka Usanake]

 

Duct tape should be on the list of stuff to hold bones together, but WAY down near the bottom in terms of percentage for success.

But duct tape can fix ANYTHING. Hell, give at least give it a minimum chance for any step in surgery

 

[Fethas]

i went to TGs dethralling tool, you use a flash/flashlight/lighter

[IK3I]

 

So having read through this whole post, I have two questions:

 

• Are the instructions linear, or is the entire surgery linear?

  If I break the OR computer can I do freestyle surgery?

 

 

Now if the answer to the first question is that just the instructions are linear, then good job. Great system, us professionals can still do our combination organ, bone, and bleeding surgery (more common than you'd think), while newbies can learn the ropes in an IC way.

 

If the answer is that both are linear, than congrats, you've killed surgery because now if someone has a ruptured lung, and internal bleeding, the're going to die because both are time sensitive and you'd cut it close in most cases with doing both at the same time anyway. Adding an extra 3 steps can take up to 30 seconds depending on the various factors that affect tool use time. And that's 30 seconds you usually don't have.

 

As for the second question, that's pretty strait forward. If there's a way to turn it off then I'll do it, but if the thing starts yelling at me to use a hemostat every time I open a guy up, I'm gonna use some screwdriver on it.

 

My main point here is that surgery is actually fine the way it is, and that if the cost of adding new organs to play with is that surgery becomes so trivial that the fastest button pusher is the best on the crew, It's not worth doing anymore.

 

[Knightedskull]

 

Thank you for explaining it better than I would, IK31.

 

What's worse is that it'd take longer than 30 seconds cause in the case of linear surgery you'd have to BACKTRACK which makes no sense and consume more time.

While if I really thought about it I might be able to think of a negative to the current system but currently it is great and fun to work with.

 

I'd love the idea of additional organs but not a tthe cost of pure linear surgery/

 

[tigercat2000]

 

Jesus christ.

 

Baystation style surgery is not staying around, even if the entire fucking organ PR was thrown out. It is not an expandable system, we can't continue improving our code with it in place, because it's such a fucking terrible system that making more surgeries is one of the most difficult things to do in the code.

 

Be glad we don't use surgery rags, and bother to have any sharp object work.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Thank you for explaining it better than I would, IK31.

 

What's worse is that it'd take longer than 30 seconds cause in the case of linear surgery you'd have to BACKTRACK which makes no sense and consume more time.

While if I really thought about it I might be able to think of a negative to the current system but currently it is great and fun to work with.

 

I'd love the idea of additional organs but not a tthe cost of pure linear surgery/

 

I'll try to explain this in a non-coder friendly way.

 

Simply put, the way Bay wrote their surgeries is that while it allows for changing steps, mid way through a surgery, it makes it incredibly difficult for coders to add in new surgeries or new surgery steps if we wanted to add in a new surgery.

 

The reason for this is how it's internally coded and handled--it works, but it's incredibly messy, and for a codebase that's forward-looking and game-mechanics oriented (like Paradise), this is problematic. On Bay, it's not a big deal; they rarely do incremental changes to systems or add in new game mechanics as they're more RP oriented and their dev cycles are very long (this isn't do say tehy don't ever make new features; they just tend to do them in batches when they rework large systems---they don't generally make very many little tweaks or game mechanics additions along the way).

 

What this means for you as a player is that while you may have to spend a little extra time doing a single surgery, it means we can far more easily add way more surgeries in a short amount of time---and better yet? We can far more easily adjust individual surgeries to be easier/harder.

 

For example, if players are finding it's taking way too long to do surgery with the "linear" method, we can far more easily reduce the amount of time a step takes for a surgery--thereby while you may be doing more surgeries, the surgeries themselves wouldn't take as long, therefore the amount of time spent on a patient is roughly the same.

 

One thing I want to make clear is that this does not eliminate doing surgery on multiple body parts at once. You can do surgery on their chest and their leg at the same time without issue (and under this "linear" system this wont' break...unlike current surgery)---this only prevents you from doing an organ repair surgery, then transitioning into bone repair mid surgery.

 

 

As a long time RD and CMO player, I can understand the frustration to a certain degree---but the chance to get even more surgeries with even better game mechanics, far outweighs transitioning one surgery into another.

 

[IK3I]

I suppose my main problem isn't a new system, I understand what it's like to work with spaghetti code and that a change is needed to make things easier in the long run. My problem is that it completely removes any skill when it comes to surgery, because not only is everything presented to you, but its always exactly the same. There's no variance to it and to be honest, if it was my project, I'd get it to a point that the people who were performing the surgeries actually liked it, not just the people who's only input to the surgical procedure is lying on a table unconscious. I Like the idea of having new things, and getting better code, but I don't like that the cost of doing so is complete destruction of what makes surgery unique and fun. I'm pretty sure most of the surgeons on here would agree that this kills our fun and we'd rather wait till the surgical capabilities are up to par with what's in place.

[FlattestGuitar]

 

I don't really see how it will impact the skilled surgeons. After just a few operations you're able to remember what you need to do to access organs.

 

What I don't understand is how exactly the current system is broken, but I guess I'm not enough of a magician to get that.

 

Regardless, I'm looking forward to the new features and I hope there won't be much relearning to be done.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Best analogy I can give is this:

 

Imagine you're going to wire a new room in your home that was just recently added. Everything in your house, electrically, is completely fine and there's not generally been any major problems aside from a few little quirky behaviors here and there.

 

When you go to open your electrical box, however, you're greeted with a huge mess of balled up wires and a tangle mess that looks something like this:

 

It works, yes, but making additional changes to it is next to impossible and incredibly time consuming, not to mention it may veryyy easily mess up the existing electrical things in your home.

 

That's what current surgery code is--it works, yes, and it even may have a single positive feature tied to it, but in terms of the backend? It's completely unworkable for future additions and changes.

 

[Knightedskull]

 

*for some reason my reply failed*

I'm all for improving the mechanics, depth and expansion.

I had no idea the coding was, well, an utter mess.

 

I'm sure it might be for the overall better but this would be like chemistry dispensers already starting out with advance chemicals/medicines ( in terms of lost fun/magic).

 

It just irks me and I can't make sense why you would not be able to fix organs and then bones before wrapping up the operation.

 

I can't say the new system will be better or worse without trying it out but at least it does have the prospect of expansion and, hopefully later at the least, bring back some of the magic lost during the release.

 

[pinatacolada]

Then again, if the new code is that expansive, we could just add overlapping surgeries to it, like have a surgery that is organs and bones, and so forth for all possible combinations, which aren't that many.

[IK3I]

 

Then again, if the new code is that expansive, we could just add overlapping surgeries to it, like have a surgery that is organs and bones, and so forth for all possible combinations, which aren't that many.

This is actually a very good point. I'm assuming the new code is modular in that the surgery itself is just coded in a list format like

BoneMendArm{scalpel, hemostat, retractor, gel, setter, gel, Broken=0, cautery}

with the parsing code actually replacing those terms with in game actions. If that is the case, or something similar is afoot, then why not just add in the time sensitive and common joint ops while you work on getting true branching. This would satisfy everyone involved in all likely hood.

 

And for reference, the most common joint surgeries in my experience are broken+bleeding, broken+organ trauma, and the trifecta. The others are generally pretty rare and I doubt would cause much of an issue.