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Dumbdumn5

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    Complaint against necalodun's resolution of prior complaint

    in Resolved

    Posted

    53 minutes ago, katierussland said:

    That was amazing. That whole text wall was amazing. It's been a long time since I've read something at or near this level of quality. I'd been holding off on checking on this thread as I'd expected nothing more than a continuation of the hostility and insults I'd received before, but to find this absolute jewel instead... it's wonderful.

     

    53 minutes ago, katierussland said:

    Speaking of your exemplary reply, reading it was very enjoyable. I hope it was also enjoyable for you to write it, and that it wasn't excessively laborious.

    I greatly appreciate your commendation of my composition and would indeed indicate that I took great personal pleasure in its production over a period of approximately two periods roughly equating to one twenty-fourth of a single mean solar day. Due to my attendance at a university of fair to middling renown, I am frequently requested to conceive of evermore long-winded rebukes and affirmations of myriad literature, not the least of which includes subjects of significant controversial discourse.

    2 hours ago, katierussland said:

    While this may be the case, most other windows in the game, with the notable exception of the character customization one, do not take up such a large portion of the screen. Further, these windows are created as the direct result of the player clicking on something, which is not the case in the situation being evaluated.

    From personal experience, at the moment one loads onto the Paradise Space Station 13 server they are greeted with a menu produced in the center of their screen with no prior warning or indication over other text, and that the character creation menu (as you so mentioned), in-game monitors, crew manifests, maps, medical scanners and monitors, and PDA systems are of comparable if slightly smaller dimensions as the in-game administrator private messaging window. This is not to say, however, that you are incorrect in your assertion that such menus are produced, in most part, by direct player action. However, though such actions are uncommon, the instinct to close such a window is not necessarily entirely justified by this behavior, though it is certainly more explainable. Given that the majority of interactions where such a button is used on players unfamiliar with the administrative processes of the Paradise Space Station 13 game server function seamlessly and do not result in frequent misunderstandings and admin complaints beyond your few presented examples, I would disagree that cases such as this one are frequent enough to demand substantial changes to the system as it presently operates.

    59 minutes ago, katierussland said:

    I find the insinuation that less common terms are only used to create illusions of superiority to be quite preposterous. 

    Though with regard to individual experience as one so evidently a participant in such use (or to some a misuse) of the written-word, such use of unconventional terms is frequently associated with members of a pretentious, pedantic breed. Though it may not undeniably exemplify your inner aspects as an individual, it is nevertheless a common understanding and experience of those frequently surrounded by others attempting to socialize in an increasingly intellectually competitive society such as the one provided in our modern world.

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    I resent your insinuation. My original complaint was nothing if not professional, necaladun's hostility was unwarranted entirely.

    My own insinuation was predicated upon that common assumption that one who uses such a vocabulary as you had in your prior grievance falsely employs such phraseology in an effort to circumvent the use of disparaging diction while still seeking to antagonize others without the utilization of conventional innuendo and individually blaspheming expressions, thus acting to provoke individuals unwilling to entertain such niceties themselves, causing them to present as a schmuck in the public consciousness. Necaladun is one such brusque individual not content to engage in such florid discussions, instead opting content to settle matters with language as gruff as his exterior persona, including the application of the aforementioned conventional innuendos and blaspheming expressions used in common and impromptu discussion.

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    Being now equipped with this knowledge that he had been expected carry out this maneuver, as opposed to my previous (as of the original complaint, after inferring it was not a software error) assumption that he was just being lazy or anti-social (hitting a button instead of writing a new message stating he was expecting a reply), I can understand why Meow19 would treat this as normal and not understand my frustration with his handling of the situation.

     

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    That would've been both dishonest and unnatural, given that it was my honest belief at the time, and up until such a point where your message clarified that the administrator handbook recommended this, that he acting out of malice, incompetence, indolence, or a combination of the three.

    Provided that these quotations from your rejoinder are indicative of your current understanding of administrative policy, I would imagine that such complaints are now solely levied at Necaladun's conduct and no longer include or insinuate wrong-doing on our administrator-in-training's part beyond their bedside manner with you in private messages? As indicated by your responses immediately following these quotations, I believe this to be the case, however my judgement of these statements may be inadequate.

     

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    Omitting his liberal usage of permanent bans, I would be tempted to agree, though I'd still forward feedback that he ought to respond in a less hostile fashion to a player closing a window rather than acting as though it is a personal attack on him (he openly called it "ignoring him"), and improve his spelling. Curiously, much of what you said about my attitude in my complaint(s) could also be said about his handling of the situation.

    Not omitting it, however, the designation of "abuse" seems more than adequate.



    I would indicate, however, that the majority of bans provided by the Paradise Space Station 13 game server are permanent bans, and as such, are not as severe in their nature as other Space Station 13 game servers where such punitive action is reflective of a desire to bar passage into the game server permanently as their name may imply, which is understandably confusing to those most recently introduced to the Paradise Space Station 13 game server, and as such, does not constitute an abuse of power either, given that such punishment is standard for the majority of punishments where an administrative warning and note are not deemed adequate.

    As an explanation for such behavior on the part of the administrative team of the Paradise Space Station 13 game server, such practices were undertaken to avoid one awaiting the end of their banishment without thought or effort, resulting in irreverence to the expectations and regulations of the game server and an increase in repeated offenses from those prevented from connecting to the Paradise Space Station 13 game server in such a manner. Such action demands that one breach the subject on our ongoing online convocation of those interested in matters concerning the Paradise Space Station 13 game server, where one may come to understand and, presumably, come to venerate its guidelines.

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    That did not happen until after, while I was filing my original complaint, and as such could not have modified the way in which I replied to his messages.

    Observe my explanation of such understanding above the prior paragraph and quotation.

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    As it stands, I did mention it. One of the first things I said was "I saw your message", which you can confirm, should you wish to, in your logs, and should you not have access to them for any reason, I can provide you with mine, as I transcribed the entire chat into a text file should it later be needed as evidence or for reference.

    Though included in your message, the quotation of "..???? The hell else am I supposed to do after I read a message other than close the window?" included diction far more provocative than your language presented on this discussion, and as such led one to assume that you possessed problematic tendencies in discussion that necessitated further communication and clarification, whereas if it was straightforwardly 'I saw your message" as you so indicated, such confrontation would not have come to pass.

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    Were he to "mirror my diction", he would've replied in a professional manner, which is not what happened. Necaladun flagrantly and openly insulted me, and on more than one occasion. This was mentioned in this complaint as "misconduct (minor)", as it had only taken place once as of me writing that complaint, but was elevated to a higher degree and repeated in replies to this very complaint, and would by now have a much more central role.

    I understand that Necaladun did not 'mirror your diction' in the literal sense of the word, but that it was mirrored in the sense that such blaspheming diction corresponded to the assumed provocation your use of bombastic language presented provided experience with other individuals intent on misusing such language for overly patronizing formalities intended to provoke rather than intended to act hospitably or respectfully. Given this assumption, that is why I elected to utilize the modifier 'uncouth' to imply that the mirroring did not include the formalities presented in your discussion, instead presenting a far more brusque and straightforward fashion of speech that shared similarities with what was assumed to be belligerence disguised as affability.

     

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    I am aware of this, as noted in the second attachment to this complaint. This fact does not preclude that necaladun could've published a response not including insults and other inadequate behaviour.

    I would also indicate that the Paradise Space Station 13 game server does not employ administrative guidelines dictating the enforcement of or expectation of professional conduct beyond in-game actions, though it does indicate that one must maintain a respectful environment, which I will agree that Necaladun did not provide to given his brusque demeanor. However, once again I may reiterate that such responses were created under the assumption and potential misunderstanding that your conduct was infact malice disguised as kindness, something that I cannot independently verify and that heavily relies on individual interpretation and experience. As such, I would ask that @necaladunplease express what his individual interpretation of your conduct had been.

     

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    As the kids have taken to saying recently, "why not both? "

    "Vengeance" does not appear out of nowhere, but rather it follows a slight or perceived slight, as you know. In the case of the former, several possible resolutions could simultaneously resolve it and improve the server.

    Though vengeance does not manifest from the ether, it does, however, provide reason to doubt one's insights into the organization or structure they seek to take vengeance upon. However, I do not believe, as per our prior discussion, that the removal of Meow or the reconstruction of the administrative guidelines of the Paradise Space Station 13 game server. would be of benefit when regarding this particular case, as, apart from a handful of cases, such conduct has proven to be effective at managing the conduct of individuals on the game server for roughly four fifths of a decade at this present moment of composition.

     

    1 hour ago, katierussland said:

    Alas, this is precisely what you state I have made: a false analogy. Whereas walking down the street includes no attack on your person, being frozen and banned does constitute an attack on me, even if it is to a much lesser degree than being robbed. A comparison between two events of the same class but of varying degrees is not inherently illegitimate. I believe you'd agree, for example, comparing an unarmed fight between two men to a battle, or comparing a group of 20 men to an army, while clearly these are not equal, may constitute a valid analogy.

    I suppose you would be correct in stating that your analogies presented were 'valid' in the sense that they were, by technicality, analogies, however analogies, as is their wont, often involve significantly comparable phenomena, though I suppose the degree of such required significance is individually variable. By an individual measure on my behalf, I would state that I find the discrepancies between sexual assault and theft and being frozen and somewhat annoyed by a pop-up window on digital entertainment media to be too great to constitute significant comparison, and as such, your analogy would fall closer to, if not entirely within the grounds of hyperbolic statement.

    Nonetheless, I appreciate your reply and appreciation of my own rebuke and look forward to continued discussion.

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    Grug Step Down From Big Rock: Part Dos

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    To put it upfront, life's been busy as hell lately in finding a place to live, going from one end of the state I'm in to the other and at the time of writing, potentially looking in a different state entirely due to the job opportunities available there. I'm finishing off the last year of a Bachelor's degree online and moving on to a Master's program not long after, but as a result of that I'm not able and wasn't able to do as much shit for para from near the beginning of this year till now and a little beyond that to the point I'm not sure if most of you goblins remember me being around!

    There's been a lot of big shit going on when it comes to staff politics and as much as it sucks to say it, there aren't enough hours in the day to knock that thing out. I'm hoping that others continue the surveys Shadey started (especially as it's nearing that time again!) and keeping up at least the occasional community meeting to let everybody know not only what's been going on on the back-end, but to take in new ideas and feedback from the people actually playing the thing.

    Para's been a pretty big part of my life for the last 7+ years going from 13 to 20, I could say it's practically raised me in some regard from how much time I spent on it, especially between 2013 and 2018, but at this point I'll likely have to take the longest break I've ever had from it just to make sure things are stable in life.

    If any of you goblins have questions, feel free to toss em in this thread, otherwise, just try not to burn the place down while I'm out, eh?

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    Complaint against necalodun's resolution of prior complaint

    in Resolved

    Posted

    Alright, I've been out a bit too long, so this is a decent warmup. If we're going to play thesaurus tag, I'll be glad to needlessly extend the variety of my diction in order to provide the illusion I'm both knowledgeable and more professional than my crimson-hued colleague.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    During the resolution of the above complaint, necalodun falsely takes as a premise that opening a pop-up window is the same as asking for a reply, falsely takes as a premise that players do not instantly close pop-up windows blocking their view of the screen, and insults me ("petulant").

    Though you took personal offense to your previous interactions with Necaladun, your prior complaint was rife with innumerable falsehoods and as a result, had seemingly been composed in bad faith in order to stoke vitriol in the staff body rather than promoting candid discussion of the events which transpired in your interactions with our administrator-in-training. Instinct from pop-up laden websites may dictate that you should close windows encroaching rapidly upon your screenspace, yet in your unfamiliarity with the software and culture within which you chose to voluntarily participate, reading what was present on a non-advertising window which had not hitherto presented itself to you at that moment and realizing that one of the only functions with a proper button present had been labelled "Reply" may have provided you with the inclination that you were intended to reply to the message after having read it given the functionality provided by that window.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    Naturally, having taken false premises as true, a wrong conclusion is reached. Even if you disagree with my full assessment regarding Meow19, it seems clear that he is at least partially at fault.

    These premises, though they may be considered false in other domains of the Interconnected Network, are more frequently true in the Build Your Own Net Dream client, which woefully possesses functionality built into the Internet Explorer website browser and tends to be rife with artifacts of a bygone era, including less polished menus and windows, which you would be privy to had you interacted with enough portions of the game to consider picking the mining role, as nearly every other menu in the game similarly presents itself as a pop-up menu, which, in order to interact with them, you could not have closed immediately on instinct under the presumption that such was an error in the game's programming, and that may have also lead you to anticipate that the arrival of this new menu may involve a similar process to the ones present prior to the moment the administrator-in-training was attempting to reach you.

    As an individual myself, I disagree with your assessment regarding the administrator-in-training, as the connotation of much of your diction leans heavily towards expressions of anger and frustration, rather than productive discourse. In observing the prior complaint, your writing took on mannerisms of ill-tempered and aggressively assertive individuals which are commonplace in retail occupations for their high-flung patterns of speech and false-professionalism, which is often used in such a manner as to browbeat employees with a lengthy diatribe before attempting to contact managerial staff with the intention to spread falsehoods or exaggerated inconveniences in order to potentially cause the aforementioned employee to be ejected from their earned position.

    Though I understand that you were uncomfortable with the outcome of your interactions, approaching the complaint with humility and anticipating a potential misunderstanding while also firmly stating your displeasure at your treatment would have provided to the environment of our communication back to you in a far more positive fashion in comparison to the more aggressive statement you had approached with. I may suggest that taking time to ease your nerves and considering that peppering your position with impertinent insinuations isn't conducive to a flourishing interaction with the remainder of the staff body.
     

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    Having a window that covers half my screen forced open, which I closed without a second thought (and a few minutes of browsing your forums show I am not the only one with this issue (see below)), then acting like it was supposed to be the same as asking for a reply, if not abuse, is at least misconduct.

    As per my aforementioned comment on the window's functionality, and speaking from a point of wholly individual experience on my behalf, the vast majority of the game's systems are based upon archaic systems that provide little to no warning of their arrival when compared to their more modern cousins present in other video entertainment and media. The source cited within your post, though following proper format, does not speak to the majority of individuals who interact with the reply system for the first time, and instead inaccurately provides an example of another outspoken outlier, who in similar, though far more uncouth fashion, made the mistake on their part an issue with all other persons outside themselves.

    Given that our handbook for newly arrived administrators-in-training specifically dictates the approach taken by Mr.Meow, I regret to inform you that such an action is similarly incomparable to incompetence or misconduct of any form or fashion, and is in fact aligned with the basest standard practices and procedures of this staff body.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    Also this seems to imply that I need the window open to reply, which I don't. The message also shows up in the chat, where it does in every other server, and where I expect messages to show up, not in a pop-up window that's particular to this server, to which, as I stated, I was new, and logically unaccustomed to its particularities.

    Though you don't require that implement to reply to an administrator, a pop-up window serves as a means to gain one's attention through a sudden and unexpected arrival of a menu or window onto one's video output device. Had you responded to the administrator in the chat window originally, the altercation between you and the administrator-in-training would have ceased to be a potentiality, this complaint and its predecessor would have been null, and your weave of fate would have been restored to a mundane and less conflict-stricken state than it is at this present moment.

    Given your recent arrival to this software and its particularities, you as an individual could have formatted your original complaint in a fashion that accentuates your inexperience rather than one that suggests incompetence or malcontent from the administrator-in-training who was far more adept at the particularities held within this software in comparison to you yourself as an individual.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    I was frozen before he even asked for a reply. Instead of simply sending me a PM saying something to the effect of "Did you see my message?" or "Did you understand?", he made windows appear covering half my screen, with no indicator that was caused by a human and not a software error, somehow expected me not to instantly close them, attacked my character and only after all that did he bother to ask for a reply.

    It has been shown by our server logging software that the attempt to seek your reply was made several times within a period of ten minutes and that, only when it came to the third instance of your failure to reply did the administrator-in-training, Mr.Meow, choose to restrict your character's locomotion for a temporary period in the hopes that such inability to act would direct your attention away from the graphical-screen and towards the text-based communication you were presented with. It was never the fault of the administrator-in-training that you were unfamiliar, but it is perfectly justifiable to state that there had been a misunderstanding as to the purpose of the pop-up window and the restraint exercise when presented with the opportunity to voice your complaints about such process on our forum.

    I will however reaffirm that your statements regarding attacking your character are falsehoods, as the administrative command pertaining to restraining individuals not only prevents the accruement of damage to a character from the restraint itself, but additionally prevents other individuals from interacting with a restrained character, complete with an animated graphical overlay applied to your digital avatar with the word 'ADMIN' explicitly shown so as to prevent any confusion as to whether this sudden restraint was caused by a member of administrative staff, constituting an out of character punitive event within which you were directly involved, or an in-character moment of collapse that such individuals could take advantage of to produce bodily harm for your un-enthusiastic consumption.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    "No harm" except damaging my character right as the other miners and I were preparing for a fight, because who needs health in a fight? I was understandably pissed.

    Once again I reiterate my statements prior to this particular point, directing your attention, if it should please you, to the arguments made regarding the quote I had taken from your argument above. I disagree personally as an individual that your frustrated or ill-tempered response to the circumstances was fully justified, at least in a lasting fashion, as such a disturbance is easily remedied and altogether temporary, leading me to suspect that your attitude approaching the situation at length was unjustified by the circumstances surrounding your behavior and your interaction with Mr.Meow, the administrator-in-training.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    What do you call freezing someone with no prior explanation if not "abuse"?

    Abuse as it pertains to the administrative role is indicated by an intentional and malicious use of power for purposes not related to their administrative function or the unintentional misuse of power on a grand scale that provided to the detriment of an individual's experience within a 'round' of the game space station thirteen on the paradise station build your own net dream server. This is often reserved for exceptional misconduct rather than the comparatively minor incident this particular complaint's predecessor was based upon. As such, your accusations of misconduct are an inappropriate designation for this administrator-in-training's behavior.

    5 hours ago, katierussland said:

    I did. I was angry. Would you not be after you had been attacked seemingly for no reason only THEN for the admin to say what he wants? Imagine if someone was robbing you and first beat you up and only AFTER told you he wanted your money, how would you feel?

    Though momentary frustration and confusion may be expected, I would direct you to the discussion on character harm I have provided two quotes from your own discussion above this quote, as it should illuminate your understanding of the administrative commands at our disposal and their function. I understand that such differences from standard procedure may be frustrating to a newcomer, yet such problems are temporary and inoffensive enough to not warrant rage of this scale. Uncomfortable as it may be, such actions are incomparable to theft given your clever, but I find inappropriate use of allusions, as they are minor inconveniences lasting only short moments as opposed to the threat of one's life and wellbeing and their personal wealth.

    5 hours ago, katierussland said:

    Correct, because instead of clearly telling me he wanted a reply, he proceeded to give unclear signals (read: make windows appear) (which, as stated, at the time I didn't even realise were done on purpose but thought were just the game being buggy, as I expect any new player accustomed to old buggy software would).

    Once again I will reiterate the objectionable portions of your argument, as though your interaction was potentially confounding given your recent arrival to both this archaic software and this venue of entertainment, after understanding that such measures were taken in an attempt to elicit a reply from your individual personage, you could have simply mentioned that you had seen the message prior and did not intend to make such a slip-up previously and you could have just as easily used your pattern-seeking biology to note down this particular pattern of behavior in the event that you had further altercations necessitating replies to administrative staff on this gameserver without mention of it. Instead you chose to see the altercation altogether as an attack warranting two complaints to members of staff opposing your position.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    More insults. How professional of you, it really shows you're unbiased and fair.

    Provided your previous attitude and your frequent insinuations, the response of Necaladun containing insults was likely unintended for the presentations of professionalism, a lack of bias, and your own sense of fairness. However, it was intended as an uncouth mirroring of your diction which has connotations similar to one looking down their nose at an establishment that had mildly slighted or irritated them to an exaggerated point, bordering on what seemed to be a sense of superior moral standing. Though insults are unprofessional, Necaladun is not able to manage this complaint solely by his own terms, and as such, must rely on one of the other head administrators to pass judgement.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    That's fine. I have no intention of coming back to more of this abuse, especially after you've condoned it. I'd just like the one I already experienced sorted out.

    Complaints made with the intention of vengeance rather than for the sake of the server's improvement are rarely meritous as they often include personal frustrations or statements that far exaggerate and exceed any action or interpretation of action presented by the staff team. Though many of your statements have merit to their confusing nature, they do not justify on their own your further attitude and behavior, nor warrant the complaints you've presented.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    I specifically remember it not being at 100%. I'll acknowledge that maybe it wasn't him and my assumption that it was may have been false, you'd know what commands here do better than I would.

    Here you demonstrate full-well your capability to observe administrative behavior as a misunderstanding rather than a slight against your individual status or as an act of misconduct. Approaching the entire situation as somebody seeking understanding or refutation of a particular course of action rather than coming across as frustrated or professional in the least flattering sense of the word would be a welcome change, as it would allow for good faith arguments between both parties and our mutual understanding. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your candid acknowledgement of potential misunderstanding.

    4 hours ago, katierussland said:

    Blame the victim. Was what I was wearing too revealing, by the way?

    Though you were provided a number of reasons as to the declination of your prior complaint and issues with this present complaint, your comparison to getting your access restricted from this gameserver and being sexually assaulted is a profoundly disturbing analogy, as your restricted access came as the result of your attitude and behavior when dealing with administrative staff and actions you yourself took, and was not the result of some other person forcibly overpowering you and changing your firewall settings for eternity. Your insinuation that the two are even remotely comparable is a gross exaggeration of the impact being removed from a server pertaining to video entertainment when compared to such a life-altering, traumatic, and scarring event.

    3 hours ago, katierussland said:

    Nor did I ever say I was. Are you familiar with the concept of an analogy? High time you were.

    Though you were not directly stating that this altercation had done either to you, the use of analogies, as I'm sure you are well aware given your familiarity with the concept, is to liken an experience to another due to their similarities and magnitude. For instance, if I were to say that the consumption of my favorite sugared food substance was comparable to a refreshing drink of water on a particularly humid and high-temperatured day during the peak of my region's annual sunlight exposure, I would not be incorrect as to me such an experience would be equally as pleasurable, and, as such experience is individualized, it would be hard to disprove. However, if I were to state that walking down the street as a perfectly functioning and healthy male individual of young age was much like being gutted and filleted by early barbarians of yore and that simply staring out of my own ocular receptors were alike pouring boiling oil into my bodily orofices, I would be making a gross and provably false exaggeration that happens to be nothing alike the experience I had actually undergone, especially when compared to the common experience of such a task.

    Should the interactions you've had in this series of complaints and staff dealings disturb you to the point you would personally find it as distressing as sexual assault and theft, I would urge you to seek professional psychological or psychiatric aid, as these experiences are not commonly so distressing as to cause such an adverse and profound reaction.

    3 hours ago, katierussland said:

    Not only do you reply in an extremely unprofessional manner, including but not limited to insults, you then invite your fellow Heads of Staff to do so, but please, do tell me all about how you're unbiased and fair and about how I'm wrong in every single way.

    I would implore you to look exactly five quotes prior to this quote for my explanation for the manner with which Necaladun has addressed you, however, I would also like to state that you are not simply 'wrong in every way'. The attitude with which you have approached these interactions, however, is less conducive to productive discussion than you may have initially suspected, and is frequently comparable, in the experience of one such as myself with roughly a decade of experience on this platform, to one attempting to create unnecessary dramatic tension despite the rather mundane circumstances from which their complaints originated. As a result, the few meritous points your interactions have had, such as the potential for newcomers to be confused by the archaic and unpolished menus software such as the ones the Build Your Own Net Dream engine produces, is drowned out by an otherwise pompous attitude towards your treatment and your demands for its resolution.

    3 hours ago, katierussland said:

    The fact that you have a formal complaints process is admirable, more so in that you can file complaints against head admins, but it means nothing if you don't take it seriously and give this kind of response.

    The formal complaints process is intended for complaints of significant weight and merit, but we lack a third-party to verify our interactions, and as such, must rely on other members of staff to handle the complaints against other members. Each complaint is taken seriously, but as most individuals present on the staff team are, at least to an extent, human, their interactions with those lodging complaints may be impacted by emotions brought on by the response of other individuals from the diction and behavior of those involved in the complaint process. Please understand that such unprofessionalism comes as a result of this individual's interactions with you and his interpretation of your behavior.

    For the sake of continued discussion, I will unlock this thread to allow for your rebuttal and in order to clear up any misunderstandings you may have had. If you wish to continue this discussion at any point, please feel free to contact me through the use of the community discord guild or through direct forum messaging.

    Thank you for your complaint, and have a gratifying diurnal course.

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    Admin Complaint: Necaladun

    in Resolved

    Posted

    Hey there! As this is a complain written on a headmin I'll be handling this as another red bastard with a bit of free time.

    First thing's first, I can get how the complaint getting choked out without much further discussion can feel like you've not only gotten jipped, but ignored, especially considering the promised change wasn't implemented in any kind of timely manner.

     

    On 2/13/2021 at 7:18 AM, Englishformula said:

    So what? Was the rule written wrong? Are rules that have incredibly clear and concise meaning and purpose able to be changed by a Head of Staff in order to close an admin complaint without any further public discussion at all? 

    That specific part of the rule was pretty unclear if you had to make that complaint at all, as the nature of the complaint on Drakeven fixated on the removal and near-immediate replacement of a single pipe rather than the scenario we specifically wrote that rule to prevent. Looking back on the context of that rule's creation, there was a new 'meta' on station to tear up just about any pipe that could've been used by terrors to access certain departments or 'critical' areas like medical, security, engine containment, plasma storage in sci, etc. It was a strategy with no counter and that currently still lacks a reasonable code change that we could settle on, so instead we decided to add it to the rules to make sure that that sort of mass pipe-removal wouldn't more or less make terror-spiders main mode of mobility, the vent system, pretty much useless.
     

    On 2/13/2021 at 7:18 AM, Englishformula said:

    Deliberately, to intentionally do something. Correct.

    The google definition is actually "consciously and intentionally; on purpose." but still, you'd be correct there.
    Being pedantic about the definition doesn't help you win an argument over whether or not a rule is vague though, it looks like rule lawyering and copy-pasting definitions makes you look like a dick instead.

    I can get that it sucks ass to look like the admins are skirting their own rules and getting heads to back them while fucking over players for identical shit, but if that's actually going on, that would absolutely be admin-complaint worthy, since banning or noting people for prying up a single pipe is an ass-hat move and I'd be happy to throw this text-wall at whoever decided it was a good idea to slap somebody over something that small.

    On 2/13/2021 at 7:18 AM, Englishformula said:

    Atmospherics Network. Pipe.

    The atmos net is comprised of the entire station's pipe system, not just the single pipe in question. This was intended to be broader and specifically regard permanent and mass-sabotage of the station's pipenet in a way that would cut off air and scrubber flow to large areas of the station simultaneously, not individual pipes in isolated areas that were removed temporarily.

    On 2/13/2021 at 7:18 AM, Englishformula said:

    Hamper. Hinder or Impede movement. Check.

    It was hindering movement, yes, but, given the original intended meaning of the words 'Atmospherics Network', hindering and impeding movement on a mass scale. It's a similar concept to our rule on antags using bombs. You can use concentrated shit to take out your target and blast them to kingdom come, but if you go after a civvie in the bar with a max-cap like a goblin and you end up taking out twenty other people alongside him, that's a little bit more force than necessary. The goal isn't to put our foot up everyone's ass for breathing wrong, it's to prevent people from making the game a slog and a generally unfun place to be. 

    On 2/13/2021 at 7:18 AM, Englishformula said:

    Did the entire community just read the rule wrong? Everyone has specifically not been messing with pipes for the last year since this rule was posted because of how easily understood it was. 

    If anything, this should say how easily misunderstood it was. The idea wasn't 'don't touch pipes ever for any reason at all' and it never was originally. If it's been treated like that by admins or players alike, I'd hope that a clarification would absolutely help to change that, all it should take is a page update, though considering it's on the advanced rules and I was never a wiki-goblin, I can poke Neca about it if this complaint isn't enough to get that changed already.

    On 2/13/2021 at 7:18 AM, Englishformula said:

    What's the point in having this system if every single admin complaint is filed without merit and resolved to prevent further discussion? I file this out of concern for the larger system at place, which should be a fair and impartial place, not out of frustration with you. 

    The point of the system is to see if we can catch cases of admin misbehavior where they fuck around with their role and don't do shit properly or do things so egregious that they probably shouldn't have the position anymore. Everything is always based in context and due to the fact we've got policy as transparent as a block of concrete when it comes to logs, notes, and admin chat, looking at it from the player's perspective, that looks sketchy as hell and definitely gives off the vibe of 'they're hiding some shit or not playing fair'. 

    The most I can offer you is my own experience in dealing with admin and player complaints in the past and seeing them dealt with, every log is downloaded from the server and combed with a notepad++ search for relevant parties, then logs around those timestamps are covered as best as possible. Most of the time people who've witnessed the thing mentioned in the complaint are asked about it including other admins online, especially if you ahelped, and after that, things are usually discussed at large among staff in general. 

    In regard to your previous complaint on Drakeven, that was handled through a conversation between myself, Neca, and Kyet iirc about a month ago where we went over the severity of Drake's actions and whether or not we found any fault in them, as well as the wording in the rule. It was agreed by majority consensus that the rule wasn't clear and that the way you pitched it was a bit too over-reaching and as a result, we figured a change would be necessary so that other players didn't get slapped by admins who had the same misunderstanding as you did, not just to get Drake out of trouble and botch the complaint up as it seems you've implied.

    Considering what I've said above, I personally don't believe that Neca's handling of the previous complaint was worthy of this complaint, though I'm willing to consider any points you might make and talk with you either in refutation of your argument with my own evidence or experience, in clarification of staff processes and procedures, or in agreement if you have a decent argument that gives the complaint more merit.

    In the interest of open dialogue, I'll leave this complaint open for replies from you specifically. If this gets resolved and you feel like you've got more questions after the fact, my discord DMs are open at Dumbdumn5#5958 .

    Xerdies Is A Racist.

    in Resolved

    Posted

    By the context of the textlogs and your initial low effort response, it seems, at least on the admin end, a lot more like you're shouting it in such a fashion as to indicate a joke on terrorism and jihad rather than for the sake of serious religious discussion. Also since when the hell is Islam, a religion, a matter of racism? The jihadi shouting Allahu Ackbar got old in the early 2000s and *barely* clung on to the 2010s. 👎 for stale jokes and a misnamed forum topic name.

    Farewell Paradise, and thank you!

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    As somebody who's often seen as incredibly light on the spectrum of admin strictness, I can definitely understand the primary concern of the issue. There have been several incidents over the years in which, even on staff, I have had significant disagreements with the way a number of bans and dealings have gone on across the server's history. It can be easy, from a staff position, and even a head position, to worry that you're stepping on eggshells with other members of staff. 
     

    A number of times I've felt strongly against something, though being in the minority, there's not much you can do to sway opinion if that happens. It can be incredibly discouraging, and so the paragraph below definitely resonates with a number of my own experiences.

    Quote

     As for myself, I could have done a lot more. I could have tried to better communicate this problem to the heads. I could have tried to be more consistent myself, and make an effort to call out inconsistencies. I could have tried harder, pushed harder. Honestly, I was too afraid to rock the boat, too afraid to make enemies, and too afraid to look like an idiot for claiming a problem exists that others might not see. As of now, I don't have the energy or the will to fight for it. I still have a lot more to grow as a person. This is an effort to be more authentic regardless of the consequences. The best thing I can do as I go is not leave silently, but call out a problem at risk of making enemies, of making a fool of myself, and of burning whatever sort of bridge might remain with the staff after stepping down.

    The thing is, this isn't bridge burning, it's honest criticism coming from somebody who didn't feel they had the channels open to discuss their discontent with a current system. Though I understand I wasn't head until you began your break, I take it as a personal failure to keep things feeling open, and for being unable to make you feel as though your opinion would not only be welcome, but would also be considered and hopefully incorporated into staff workings at large. 

    From personal experience, being a timid person in a staff team can be difficult, it can have that 'eggshell' feel whenever you push up your own personal opinion, and it can feel as though breaching that might be seen as 'confrontational'. Believe me, I've taken insults for opposing staff decisions before, it's not completely crazy. The thing is, Headmin enforcement buckling down on things won't make everyone happy likely for the very same reason. Even we don't always disagree, most notably between me and Kyet, and to some degree, Neca for both of us, each concerned with the other's way of addressing people and our way of addressing bans and how/when to apply them. 

    Frankly, if I'm going to be honest with how I'd deal with the situation, I'd have to tell you that I don't honestly know, these sorts of problems go beyond simple rule and policy changes, as, especially with a staff team this big, getting consensus on even one rule can take weeks or, at worst, several months. 

    The important thing to note though is, this isn't a sour note, it's bittersweet at the very worst. It's honest and open criticism and I can completely respect the position you're coming from. The best you can really do is try to change things around and speak your piece well enough that you can manage to get people on your side, but that takes a bit of that boat rocking and, inevitably, you'll likely step on toes. Life without upsetting people is impossible, of course, but what matters is the way in which you upset them. If your arguments are as well reasoned, well worded, and as diplomatic as these posts here, you could certainly avoid a lot of the pain and discomfort you might've expected from providing an opinion you've got every reason and right to be able to provide. 

    Para has helped me grow a lot in these past six years, and from the looks of things, it's certainly had an effect on you. If you ever feel up to it again at any point or if you'd be willing to give debates and arguments a shot, feel free to come back any time. On top of that, if you had any suggestions, arguments, or concerns you wanted to pitch that you didn't feel comfortable putting in this thread for the sake of the aforementioned 'eggshell' worries, please, chuck me a DM on discord.

    Thank you for your time, and I hope to see you around. 


    - Dumb

    • Like 12

    Feedback on Necaladun

    in Resolved

    Posted · Edited by Dumbdumn5

    As somebody who was directly involved in the marriage event (renovating the chapel and bar) and involved IC in both the wedding and after-party evacuation that occurred. The wizard event was done intentionally after the wedding was over and during the 'after-party' of it, where much of the crew either went about their business or meandered around the halls of the station. Switching from a calm round to a chaotic one is, as you'd said, understandable if an admin wished to spice up the round, though you did have reservations in the manner it was handled. The two players he was primarily pitted against seemed perfectly content in discord DMs over the event afterwards, mostly focused on thanking those involved who had helped them run the event and in celebrating how well things panned out. From an observer's perspective looking in, it would be very easy to see this as an admin just trampling on the fun of people who wanted a calm and collected round, but on the IC end, the wizard more or less left things on their own, even chilling out in the bar for a little while before running off from security and crew headed after them. All things considered, he didn't exactly doggedly pursue the pair after their escape to the engineering satellite. It seemed more something to give command and security something to do rather than sit through an extended 'party' round where nothing in particular was happening after the hour mark. Deaths were kept moderately low for the capabilities of a wizard, and much of it was spent leading sec on chases and mindswapping with the occasional rod through the chest for those who got a bit too close.

    I apologize for the length of my response, but I hope this perspective opens up another potential angle that may show things in a more positive light. This isn't meant to critique or refute your points and perspectives, @Aidenzack1, but more offer my own in hopes that another side of the story might seem reasonable to you as an explanation for the actions taken. Thank you for your feedback.

    • Thanks 1

    RISSA Tips 2.0

    in Guides

    Posted · Edited by Dumbdumn5

    Well done, perhaps, maybe with a side of fries? (To the above)

    To Lazz as well, I've got some background in bartending, but considering your philosophy differs from mine, what's your idea of a good way to run the usual dive?

    Stepping Down

    in Public Archives

    Posted

    Hiya!

    This is going to be a pretty long post considering it's kind of a big thing for me and I want to write out everything I can. I'll still be in discord if anyone's got any questions, but having a lot of answers in one place is probably a good idea.

    So you guys have probably noticed that I've been showing up less and less over the past few months up until now, until I've pretty much been entirely silent a good majority of the time. I've got busy work with school and the like to deal with since I've started at college, and I've been working more towards getting things settled life-wise. On top of that, my interests have shifted pretty significantly since around the start of summer, changing to different games and hobbies that I've been having a lot more fun with. I'm not nearly as in touch as I used to be, and I've been taking what feels like too much of a back-seated approach to headminning for some time, which, being an advocate for a much more active headmin role, doesn't sit right with me. 

    I've had a lot of fun with you guys over these last 4 years, and I hope to continue to later, maybe as a player again, or as an admin if I ever find myself invested again, throwing about seals and random space horrors as usual. I've also met a lot of good people, some of whom I'm spending a lot more time with as of late, who've hopefully become lifelong friends of mine. For as eccentric and strange as the community is, the majority I've met are pretty awesome people, and I hope that doesn't change.

    As far as what I've been doing, I've been getting into other games and text roleplay with some of our community members and staff. Nonsense involving For Honor, Divinity OS 2, Pillars of Eternity 2, and some more casual stuff D&D with some people IRL (If you want my steam I'll throw it here https://steamcommunity.com/id/dumbdumn/ ). In terms of more serious stuff, I've been upholding my grades and handling my current job working for my university. With only so many hours in the week, all of these things combined makes it hard to focus and usually ends up in me jumping from one thing to the next without much of a coherent schedule. 

    As of next week on Saturday, I'll be stepping down from my position and hanging around as a bluemin to see if less responsibility from the role has any effect on my activity or interest, since sometimes headminning and playing the game can feel more like work and less like a neat thing I can chill out with. If that doesn't work I still fully intend to stick around in the general discord, retired or not.

    That's about as general as I can make it without throwing in an information overload, but if you guys have questions or want to talk about something I'll be looking out for replies on this thread for the next few days.

    See you nerds around,

    Dumb.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 13
    • angryeyes 1

    Admin Complaint - LPSpartan

    in Resolved

    Posted

    On recommendation, we've reviewed and will be looking at edits to our admin guidelines to avoid future incidents like this. Rhythen didn't do anything necessitating any sort of punishment, but the guidelines we do have for 'cheesy' behavior on away missions and similar things, such as the syndicate outpost, are too open in that regard, and don't specify something like corpse barricades/mobile cover, which are sometimes absolutely necessary to make it through certain gateways, most especially the wild west. 

    I know it's absolutely obscene and ridiculous for this to have taken this long to cover, and I'm sorry about that. It's my intention to follow the lead of Shadeykins in attempting to ensure that all admin complaints taken are handled within a period of 3 weeks. It's been a busy last few months for me, as I've been preparing to go to college and graduating high school. Thank you for not tearing my head off. If you have any questions or want to help write those guidelines, please DM me over discord, I've got a lot of free time nowadays.

    • Thanks 1

    How You Treat Security Players

    in Public Archives

    Posted

    Well this was something... pretty heavy to wake up to, but I'll try to write up something here to help out. 

    Firstly, the 'burden of proof' question should be taken out of this completely, considering we, as staff, have the server and discord logs and means to peruse them at our leisure, unless it's something that cannot be proven with either. If we can find evidence to something and it's a specific enough issue, it absolutely does not fall on the people with access to less information to prove it to people with a wealth of information that could prove or more reasonably refute that point without the latter party at least diving into the logs a little bit to see what was going on.

    A toxic attitude reaching a boiling point is common around the start of the summer, but it certainly isn't pleasant for players or admins alike. The problem is in trying to temper pre-existing anti-sec player attitudes with the new ones coming in off of seeing youtubers play the game and abuse security as a 'joke' and the players who influence them as they start the game. Trying to address all of the players at the same time is difficult because not everybody is on the discord, not everybody is on the forums, or not everybody is even on the server all at the same time, so it's hard to get the most problematic people in the room as possible and get that mentality sorted out.

    Staff-wise, there's admin complaints in public and private complaints that can be filed to head admins directly, which, though slower due to personal timetables, provides more anonymity and real-time discourse due to the use of discord PMs. This exists to avoid the problem of 'I want to make an admin complaint, but I'm afraid that somebody is going to punish me or look down upon me for making it.' I sincerely hope that there isn't an actual bias from a staff member against sec, considering they're meant to be as unbiased as possible in these scenarios, but if there is any bias then it'd be a lot easier to pinpoint who it is and what they seem to think in the public eye. 

    For discussion in general, admins are around staff all the time, they hear mostly from staff, they have a bunch of tools to access and months or sometimes years that they have all the logs, access, and everything they need that it's easy to forget what it's like not having those. It's why I personally like giving people the benefit of the doubt because there's more than a number of times that I've run into a situation of "you're pissed because you don't and couldn't know the full story". From things in-game that were just say log or attack log interactions like "Jimmy didn't hit you, Billy hit you first." to "The MD isn't validhunting you, it's coincidence that you sucked their blood in maint and that they were around robotics to fix their busted mechanical limbs when they escaped just in time to see you around. Letting you try to kill them again was probably not on their to-do list when you ran up and glared them because they inched in your general direction." It's a shitty attitude to completely discredit or act as if other human beings are being 'unreasonable' because of something that a staff member has access to or the ability to do where a player doesn't have so many options.

    This doesn't make any and all accusations of something right just because somebody doesn't have the same access, and it doesn't make the discussion any 'easier' if it's a heated topic and people are legitimately worked up over things, but it does provide and explanation for something even more important than access, that being perspective. If you're around somebody in a certain situation all the time or exposed to a certain set of constraints that's a bit less constrained than the norm, it's easy to develop a much different perspective on certain people. Staff members will take what they know of other staff members from behind the scenes on staff chat, personal dealings with them through PMs and getting to know people for a long while, while players who don't reach out to get to know every staff member see mostly the business end of the deal, and only the interactions they've had with them and what they can garner from the public discord and that's going to be through the lens of how they remember them best.

    The goal in an argument such as this is to disprove accusations, not to deny them. I appreciate that this topic's come up considering I've been hearing about it from a few people over discord as summer's started to kick in, and the public chat tends to follow the same views expressed here from what I've seen. Those being that security is heavily scrutinized where it feels others are not so heavily scrutinized, and that the job is still as stigmatized in terms of SS13 culture as it ever was. Considering what I enforce, I'd like to think differently of the issue, but if there's this much displeasure from it in places more than just expressed in the forum post here, I'd like to delve a bit deeper into the logs and find things that we as a staff team could work out that can help us try to clamp down on this thing, since it's been a multi-generational problem, as far as playerbases go, happening every year and peaking around this time every year as well.

    As Alffd's said, if you've got ideas that you've not already expressed in your own posts before this one, write something up and we can try to work with it. The policies and practices of administration should always be and hopefully always have felt open to debate and discuss.

    Keep discussion civil as always, thank you for reading or at least kinda skimming this massive textwall.

    • Thanks 1
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