[Make unwanted kissing battery]

4 hours ago, Peak said:

remove the projectile and it'll barely be used anymore, people are just using it as a laser tag surrogate

TBH this seems the simplest and quickest solution.

[Vox balance issues.]

On 3/22/2021 at 8:51 AM, Djvoid225 said:

Currently speaking, many people within the vox community

In my experience here, the "racial cliques" are a very poor source for balance, due to the bias inherent. Of all the racial cliques I've seen, the current main Vox clique is one of the most toxic, hence the sheer number of bans handed out. I don't particularly care what the self-appointed gatekeepers of the Vox think, based on how myself and the staff team have been treated by them, the lies spread, accusations of "promoting racism", and other such nonsense.

Our most recent overhaul of Vox (when spaceproof was removed) resulting in a pretty disappointing reaction from the "community". Being that I'm being told of efforts to brigade and mass-downvote PRs on the github and protest OOC while in the IC environment, I'm not really eager to enable people for acting in such bad-faith. This is further complicated by the numbers of people who see themselves as "vox mains" and thus take anything against Vox - mechanics or lore etc - personally. I'm frankly too old to care about the opinions of people who can't separate their own identity from that of a fictional race in a niche online game. I'm not a therapist.

On top of that, there's this false-solidarity, as if every member of the "vox community" agrees here. It's certainly not a monolith, based purely on the amount of people I have messaging me about their issues with said community and disagreements that they uncomfortable voicing around such toxic elements. People don't get any extra weight leant to their opinions because they've joined a discord full of banned players - quite the opposite, in fact. I'd like to assess each PR on it's own merits, rather than because of an active campaign by a vocal minority to push for it.

 

This is not to say I don't think we should be continually trying to make every race - including Vox - better for the server. 

 

Thank you very much @Djvoid225 for bringing this up in a productive manner - a forum post and google doc is actually something solid and concrete I can work with, as opposed to random sniping on PRs and on discord. I'm hoping a shared space like this for people to work on, and see what ideas come about, will lead to some productive brainstorming and ideas. This is the correct way to do things that makes us take you seriously and listen to you. Feel free to DM me for any further discussion on this. Protesting ICly in front of the bridge or mass-downvoting other PRs in protest means that we will actively stop caring about your opinion. 

I'd love to have more unique, RP oriented features for all of the races is possible, without overly affecting game balance. But you shouldn't need mechanical features to RP. How drunk you act is up to you, you don't need mechanics for that. Following the Inviolate would be a very easy way to make vox more unique than they already are on the station, but that would require people actually RPing species lore and not just being generic shitbirds.

The Organ thing @SteelSlayer mentioned could do with work for sure, it's so stupidly niche I think I've only ever had it be relevant once. I'm not at all attached to it as a mechanic.

Brute damage, etc, is used as our easiest representation of "small and not good at combat". With us looking at various upcoming changes to combat, that kind of thing would be best to leave alone for now, as any tweaks would have to be retweaked again.

Overall they could likely use some kind of buff to make up for the above malus, but by all indication Vox are a very popular race, and the priority on changing them is quite low compared to other areas. Small tweaks and additions would be best suited, rather than a complete overhaul akin to the removal of leap/spaceproof/etc.

[Make unwanted kissing battery]

Unwanted sexual advances and threats of violence seem a pretty good thing to crack down on. Any workplace in reality wouldn't allow that. A security officer roleplaying as a security officer in a workplace and cracking down on threats of violence isn't "abuse", it's them properly role playing - even if space law doesn't specifically list threat, it's common sense that security would involve themselves in it.

Someone going around blowing kisses and threatening violence isn't the kind of roleplay I'd like to see here. The kiss blowing is cringey, and the violent threats are just insanity.

[Make unwanted kissing battery]

I'd happily go a step further and make it instant grounds for dismissal as well, as is exactly the same in every single job I've ever been in. 

[Decouple Gamma alert from the armoury shuttle]

I'd like to be able to do gamma without the armoury for sure. That and the borgs is a huge reason why I have avoided sending it on multiple occasions, so I'd hugely support this.

 

If it was able to be called by players.....I'm hesitant to let that be a player decision. Gamma should really be only for event-level chaos, or a true clusterfuck of RNG. Authorisation to throw SoP out the window really should come from on high.

[pineapplesalad]

Hi there,

Apologies for the delay in getting to this, it's been a rather chaotic past few weeks for me and the other heads.

It's very clear to me you're a reasonable person willing to discuss things and understand the issues. I've lifted the ban and will treat this as an appeal as well. You're clearly not a griefer or the like.

@Pineapple Salad is very new as an admin, so I've somewhat let them respond to this as a bit of a test - I intended to deal with it earlier but IRL got in the way, you have my apologies there.

The main feedback I'd like to give him is as follows: A warning of something niche and minor over a year ago is easy for us to pick up in notes but not for the players to remember, and that this appears to be in the spirit of sillyness rather than maliciousness. Pineapple has some valid points to the issue itself, and why it should not be repeated - but I don't think needed to go straight for the ban, considering your record.

Complaint is with mixed merit - yes, you were in the wrong to do that somewhat, but it was not as serious an issue as was made out, and wasn't needed to be as harsh. 

Mistakes have been admitted to, I think both of you have learned - I'll leave it open though in case @Alicesheckles wishes to comment further.

[Admin Complaint: Necaladun]

Hi there, obviously I won't be ruling on this as it's against me, but I will explain my actions here and call out some of the bullshit.

Since the original complaint, I've discussed a few ways to change the rule to get it clearer to it's original intent, which is to stop people ripping up the pipe net in preparation for antags, leaving the pipe net destroyed and the antags with no way to re-enter the pipes if they accidentally leave them. I've been fairly busy then, and it slipped my mind to come back to it to actually post it. A DM to ask about that/remind me is a fairly simple endeavour. 

The incredibly clear and concise meaning some people thought the rule had was not the same clear and concise meaning other people had gotten. The "entire community" is not some monolith that agrees with you. When two different groups are both contesting what the meaning of a rule is, it's the responsibility of the headmins to try to clarify the rule and get the intent and spirit of it across much more clearly.

I don't think this is a good-faith effort to resolve anything, or that this is filed out of "out of concern for the larger system at place" when your previous sentence "every single admin complaint is filed without merit and resolved to prevent further discussion?" is an outright lie. If you were truly concerned with things being "fair and impartial" then you would tell the truth yourself, not make sensationalist yet bullshit claims. Two of the most recent 9 were found with merit, and plenty more have been over the years, with results ranging from changes in policy to the dismissal of admins. 

Further discussion is not prevented at all by resolving a complaint - many, many people have gone on to continue discussing these. You're doing it right now in fact - although this could have been done in many other ways, such as DMs, pings on the discord, etc. 

Considering this on top of your accusation of me gaslighting - a pretty serious form of psychological abuse and manipulation and a pretty nasty thing all round - I believe this is an attempt to stir shit with the admins, and is not out of concern for system. From how admins have spoken of you in the past, this seems a recurring theme with your interactions with Admins. Even your commentary on other rulings from appeals has been shitstirring, stripping all context and nuance out of what has been said. 

If you were here in good faith, then I don't see why you'd really have such issue here with how it was resolved. We've worked to clarify the rule, and explained the original intent of it. The situation was clarified and resolved. You continuing like this shows me that you're trying to get a "win" here against the admins - and you're willing to lie, concern troll, and accuse me of psychological abuse to get this win. 

I utterly accept I dropped the ball on getting that update done, with RL getting in the way and all. But the rest of this is just an attempt to concern troll from someone with a weird grudge.

[Admin Complaint: Shift 25751]

Hi there,

I'm not seeing any misconduct or abuse of powers here. Like your last admin complaint, this appears to be feedback on an event you didn't like, as is more suited for other forums - such as the event forum. I thought you'd get the hint when I moved it there, although this one is tagged with misconduct and abuse of powers. 

Admins might run events you don't personally like sometimes. These events may escalate to a DS wiping out the crew (especially if a vote offering that passes - which was to all players, ghosts and living, @Zephroze. There is no way to choose who can and can't vote with the vote verb.). Admin events may mean you don't get to do what you planned for the shift, just like a nuke op or wizard would - especially if the crew vote for it. That doesn't make the admins actions here misconduct or abuse of powers.

The round being extended doesn't change that. It seems you disagree with admins attitudes and the policy towards extended and running events. That is ok, and you can discuss this in the forums or discord if you'd like the staff to change their policy. You have done so before in fact:

 

This admin complaint is pretty transparent attempt at you pushing for this. The admins not doing things the way you'd like, is not misconduct or an abuse of powers. 

 

Complaint without merit and resolved. Please post further feedback on events in the event suggestions forum. 

 

[NAME APPEAL SPACEMANSPARK: Name appeal for [Matter O' Fact]]

Hi there,

The backstory here makes sense to me and is believable within Grey lore, and I can see someone in NT with a sense of humour making it look Irish.

To be a tad bit of a pedant - greys would have a name and see the need for them, as they're not a hivemind that lacks individuality, and need a way to identify each other. Matter would have a telepathic "name", but this could be something with no easy common translation, such as a smell, mathematic or scientific concept, or the "feel" of your aura. That's why greys can identify each other in their psychic chat....but this isn't something easily written on an NT employment document. My Grey went with Michael rather than "the feeling of emptiness that exists in the space between galaxies."

This is all assuming you're not playing a ridiculous Irish stereotype of course - that should be reserved for a clown grey. 

[Admin Complaint: Drakeven]

Hi there,

I've read over the logs here, and Drakeven discussed this with the other admins before attempting to handle it herself. Marginalorb agreed that the unwrenching wasn't excessive, but had to leave - in this case, with no other options and trying to get others to handle it first, Drak handling it is expected.

Quote

[2021-01-25T07:59:21] ADMIN: PM: Drakeven/(Jay Chase)->Englishformula/(a swarmer): No, it's not. Wrenching up pipes at vital intersections thoughout the station is. Two pipes to trap a swarmer that they already know about is okay. Likewise, if sec knew there was an queen of terror in electircal, they would be within their rights to wrench up the escape route she has and then attack her.
[2021-01-25T07:59:54] ADMIN: PM: Englishformula/(a swarmer)->Drakeven/(Jay Chase): So its okay to wrench up pipes strategically ?
[2021-01-25T07:59:57] ADMIN: PM: Drakeven/(Jay Chase)->Englishformula/(a swarmer): If they wrenched up pipes in the HOPES that she would make a mistake and fall out of a pipe somewhere, then yes you'd be correct. Like most things, context comes into play here.
[2021-01-25T08:00:32] ADMIN: PM: Drakeven/(Jay Chase)->Englishformula/(a swarmer): If you know about a threat and it's their only escape route, then yes- you can wrench up pipes to trap them. If you don't know where the threat is and just want to stop them from using pipes, then no you can't do that. 

Drak was correct here - cutting off an escape route temporarily is not "breaking the atmos net in order to hamper antags". The intent of this rule was to stop people unwrenching multiple pipes (and often hiding them with other items) across the station - often pre-emptively and in strategic locations - and breaking the atmos network and severely hampering antags. In this case a temporary removal in response to a direct threat is quite different, and a reasonable response. 

This case seems like a deliberate response to an antag attempting to escape equivalent to a sec team having an AI bolt a door in front of a running traitor or routing them with another sec team, not the equivalent of bolting every door into entire station departments because 'bad man might want to go there'

I don't see Drak saying you can do it "strategically" or "methodically" anywhere.  I'm not sure why you you put those words in quotes when you're not quoting anyone?

Methodically unwrenching pipes across the station is certainly not on, and in no way did Drak ever say. Think of the door bolting example above (Which I totally stole from @Dumbdumn5), or randomly force feeding holy water to the crew. Doing these in response to an immediate and active situation is fine - methodically doing it in advance is not and considered excessive. 

We'll look into rewording things so this can be a bit clearer.

Complaint is without merit and resolved.

[Admin complaint Norwest]

Norwest has been fired out the mass driver.

 

Complaint totes valid and resolved.

[Requesting clarification concerning an interaction with an unknown admin.]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:13 AM, Accinator50 said:

! I think this situation can be considered as resolved (unless someone wants to add something to it).

Helps if I actually mark it as resolved.

[Admin complaint: Qwertytoforty]

As there's no further feedback and we've updated the policy, I think this can be marked resolved. If you wish to discuss it further, contact me or another head.

[Concerning A Captain Demotion]

This has been open a bit too long whoops, if @Kugamo you wish any more feedback just pm me or contact me via discord (or another head).

[Admin complaint VS marginalorb]

Hi there,

First of all I'd like to clear things up for you and anyone else reading this as to how CC Naval Officer operate, because you seem a bit confused about the powers of CC officers and what "RDM" is.

RDM, or random death match, is attacking people for no reason. Admins generally use RDM to describe new players who start randomly bashing people with a toolbox. "RDM, no response to PM" is a very common ban reason. This was not the case at all. It wasn't just treating the game as some random death match. You were executed with a reason - boarding the shuttle, attempting to send it, and saying no to a request. 

You also said that "Yes they can ignore space law but they cant just RDM freely too, they must give warnings at least 2 or three" - this is absolutely not the case. CC Naval officers employ Death Squads to nuke the station. 

(Thank you for logs, @Abydos.)

Looking over your conversation, none of this was phrased as "constructive criticism". You repeatedly argued with the Esenno, when you were in the wrong. Esenno listened to you. He heard you out. He responded to you. Just because you didn't like what he had to say doesn't mean he was dismissing you. You ask him to be more patient, but he discussed this with you for roughly 26 minutes. 

Hopefully you'll take in my clarification above.

Complaint is without merit, moving to resolved.

 

[Admin complaint Norwest]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:10 PM, SkyPing said:

The fact that this has gone on for THIS long is truly abhorrent

This is clearly a systemic problem that we as headmins have failed to address. From this point forward I will make sure that all admins know that no fun is allowed.

[Admin complaint Norwest]

Hi there, and thanks for this complaint.

Normally I don't like a peanut gallery of everyone throwing in their 2c, but due to the extreme nature of this, I'll allow others a few days to comment as to how these shocking events have affected them.

[Make killer tomatoes worth their name]

2 hours ago, Spacemanspark said:

I find that glossing over the fact of just how powerful botany already is and trying to pretend it's a non issue isn't really appropriate

This.
 

Something already being overpowered is not a good reason to make it even worse.

 

Sure, killer tomatos could be more interesting and deadly - but the overall effect on the game would be another fairly silly gimmick botany have to be overpowered with. It's just not worth it when you look at the cost compared to benefit.

[Can someone atleast give me some kind of feedback besides "go away, consider this a warning" on my appeal.]

It's been 2 weeks. The admin is rather busy with IRL. You may notice Christmas is also approaching and this is a busy time of year.

No on has hissed or snarled at you. They've been busy.

You broke the rules then lied about someone calling you a racial slur. You are bottom priority. We don't owe you a thing.

 

 

[Admin Complaint]

Hi there,

I've reviewed the logs of this incident and I don't see anything at all like gaslighting here. What you and the admins said is as follows:

Quote

[2020-05-26T02:05:38] ADMIN: PM: Spacemanspark/( )->Penneth/(maintenance drone (210)): <font face="Verdana">Hey, why were you interfering with nukies as a maintenance drone near tech storage?</font>

[2020-05-26T02:05:56] ADMIN: PM: Marginalorb/()->Penneth/(maintenance drone (210)): <font face="Verdana">I&#39;ve got several reports that you&#39;ve interfered with a fight between crew and the nukies?</font>

[2020-05-26T02:06:16] ADMIN: PM: Penneth/(maintenance drone (210))->Spacemanspark/( ): I didnt attack anyone, i just kept turning the APC back on

[2020-05-26T02:06:37] ADMIN: PM: Spacemanspark/( )->Penneth/(maintenance drone (210)): <font face="Verdana">And that&#39;s still interfering with other organic beings, which breaches your laws. Why did you do this?</font>

[2020-05-26T02:06:47] ADMIN: PM: Spacemanspark/( )->Penneth/(maintenance drone (210)): <font face="Verdana">Living beings, to clarify</font>

[2020-05-26T02:08:03] ADMIN: PM: Penneth/(maintenance drone (210))->Spacemanspark/( ): I have no excuse, I just thought that turning the APC on was not interferring with anyone. Wont do it again though

[2020-05-26T02:09:00] ADMIN: PM: Spacemanspark/( )->Penneth/(maintenance drone (210)): <font face="Verdana">So, A) if you keep turning it back on despite it being turned back off, what there tells you that you /aren&#39;t/ interfering with other beings, and B) you have a previous ban from myself regarding interferance with nuclear operatives as a maintenance drone. We&#39;ve talked about this and you should know better.</font>

[2020-05-26T02:09:49] ADMIN: PM: Penneth/(maintenance drone (210))->Spacemanspark/( ): fair enough

[2020-05-26T02:10:29] ADMIN: PM: Spacemanspark/( )->Penneth/(maintenance drone (210)): <font face="Verdana">As a result, I&#39;m re-instating the jobban on all synthetic roles, and giving you a weekban. This isn&#39;t ok, and I&#39;m not entirely sure I believe you when you say you didn&#39;t know.</font>

[2020-05-26T02:10:47] ADMIN: PM: Penneth/(maintenance drone (210))->Spacemanspark/( ): again, fair enough

It appears your supposedly distinct memory is incorrect - the first thing you said was "I didnt attack anyone, i just kept turning the APC back on".

 

The ban note itself is

Quote

As a maintenance drone, decided to repeatedly enable an APC that a nuclear operative borg was repeatedly disabling. You have a previous ban regarding interferance with operatives in the past, and when you claim you \'didn\'t think it was interfering with another being\' I don\'t believe you."

I'm not seeing anything here that says you were arguing. It says he doesn't believe you and thinks you're outright lying.

In your appeal you also state:

Quote

The first thing i would like to clarify, since the job ban message confused me a bit, is that the part about ' didnt think it was interfering with an organic being' was from the first synthetics ban. I am VERY sure that what i had said to Spark when he bwoinked me this time was something along the lines of 'I have no excuse' and i didn't argue with him at all with the second ban and accepted my punishment as gracefully as i could.

Again - this is not true as the quotes above show. 

 

I don't see any evidence of gaslighting here. Maybe you misremembered. That you immediately jumped to people outright lying about this because they hate you seems indicative of your bias, not Spark's. That you would assume a staffmember is outright corrupt rather than your only memory being fallible (as the logs show) is pretty worrying too.

I'm personally inclined to agree with Spark here when he says he doesn't believe you.

The logs show you messing with the APC and crowbarring open the door to let the crew in to fight the nukeops. You claim here and in your previous appeal to get caught up in an intense situation.

Was this a once off minor thing, I could believe it was a simple mistake - but this is not the first time it happened (with nuke ops and a door, too), and this was not one thing but repeated interferences. I think you got caught up in the "intense situation" to the extent you chose not to follow your laws. This is much more plausible than not realising you're interfering with other beings - especially when you've been warned about it before, and they felt the need to attack you before ahelping about your interference.

This doesn't look like a fluke to me at all - it looks like you intentionally sought them out, venting into the room, to interfere with them.

 

I'm not sure why you brought up the discord ban since you also say it's not relevant, but since you are bringing it up I will address it here so it's not just a random snipe you're taking - You were banned from the discord for the use of homophobic slurs. That is our policy. You're far from the first or last to be banned there.

 

This complaint is without merit. 

 

 

 

 

[Possible MemeChem Nerfs - Meth + Mannitol]

Perhaps a chance to vomit every 10 seconds or so? Not so much it's crippling, but enough that it's something you really, really, don't want to happen in the middle of a fight.

[The new random candidate mechanic is frustrating]

4 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

I'm going to admit, it's a bit tiring seeing observers feeling so entitled to things. They really aren't. While I certainly don't mind giving them things to do sometimes, they aren't owed it. If you want to guarantee you're involved with the round, play the normal way. 

Preach it

[guide to sleeping]

Another quick thing I'd like to add to a good guide - if you are having trouble with sleeping due to staying up all night on ss13, we can ban you if needed, and have done this plenty of times for people. Sometimes for a 8 hours so they can get some sleep, sometimes over christmas so they can spend time with family, sometimes for a month or two so they can focus on their finals or some other IRL thing.

 

Thanks @das bread for posting this, as I know for sure it's a problem for numerous players. 

 

[Shame On You All]

Clickbait title woo.

So let's talk about shaming culture.

Shame is an important social tool to indicate a societal attitude towards behaviour. Go look up sociology shit on wiki.

As crew, comments on your coworkers shape their actions. As admins, it can be our job to shame people for their behaviour. This can be done appropriately some times - but someone shouldn't feel too ashamed over a simple mistake, especially newbies.

This needs to be done carefully and correctly to ensure that it stops the behaviour, and teaches people the correct action.

You should avoid direct insults to the persons intelligence. This can cross IC/OOC boundaries, where your IC insults are being reflected at the person behind the screen.

Several people have talked to me recently about how they've been shamed by admins OOCly and ICly in a variety of circumstances. Some of these times have been appropriate to shame someone for their behaviour. 

The degree to which this has been done and ways has not always been to my liking - I'd like to take this opportunity to remind admins that even a minor comment from someone with the power of a banhammer, comes across very strongly. Calling them an idiot in front of the entire station can be mortifying, and totally turn a new player off the game.

This is something that should be remembered when you play the game too. Everyone has off days, and abusing the CE for messing up the singularity isn't going to stop anyone getting sucked into it or make the shuttle arrive faster. When you criticise someone's actions, try to do it in a way that teaches them what the correct thing to do is, and doesn't humiliate the person behind the screen too much.

Over this weekend especially I'll be collecting various feedback etc on this, so feel free to message me. If you're reading old forum posts a year from now, also feel free to message me. It's literally my job to talk to players and the community about things like this.

[Admin complaint: Qwertytoforty]

Please update this if you think there's more that needs to be addressed in the faxing policy