necaladun
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Posts posted by necaladun
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Please update this if you think there's more that needs to be addressed in the faxing policy
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I've spoken to Qwerty about that.
He was not wrong to shame you for the poor the capitalization mistakes. Admin policy has been changed to disallow this - here's the first draft that's currently in effect:
The radiation storm was based on an idea used in another round by another admin - that a heavy bioscan is done by a nearby ship, using the radiation to detect the spiders. In this case, doing it without proper warning you as a result of the fax meant you got blamed for it, which is not fair as you could not expect that to be a result of your fax.
I've told the admins that those kind of "heavy bioscans" should be given as an option that the crew are given, which means they'll have time to warn the crew, or decline it. If they're given an option between a light and heavy and they get a radstorm for heavy, that's fair.
The previous guidelines weren't really clear on this, so I don't think it's fair to punish any admins over that, and instead would prefer to take systemic action.
Edit: Added
Quote"If you are denying faxes, you should do so in a way in which the person learns why the fax was a mistake. They shouldn't be discouraged from making another fax, but encouraged to do so with the knowledge of where they went wrong."
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For the record it was @Qwertytoforty who i'm talking to now, just adding that for filing reasons and in case aby reads this before my PM.
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Thanks to both @thatdanguy23 and @Kugamofor your responses and graciousness here. It's always a pleasure to deal with polite and rational people in an AC instead of screaming insults followed by a forum ban followed by 3 alt accounts sending me death threats.
I've started a guide to CC officers for admins, with the goal of this kind of thing never happening again. The AC involving Fraility showed the need for this too. Nothing Dan did was actually forbidden by admin instructions. Since reviewing it I don't think it would be fair to punish her.
The person most at fault here is the headmin staff, for not making this clear and properly guiding the admins. These kind of guides and instructions are mainly my department - I will take the lions share of the blame here for that, and also because i've been around the longest.
The guide will hopefully cover all of this and hopefully avoid any situations like this in the future.
This is the section on demotion:
I would appreciate @Kugamo's feedback on it to see if it would avoid this situation, or if you think I should add more to it to cover it.
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Hi there, thanks for submitting this.
First of all, there's no notes about this on your account, so no OOC action has been taken.....which was a mistake by the admin, who I now have to look up in the logs. If a head of staff is being demoted by CC, that should be noted, because anyone with a habit of getting demoted by CC should likely get a job ban. This isn't to say it's a habit or in risk of a job ban from this.
Myself and another admin have reviewed the logs, and I'm in agreement that demotion was needed here. I don't think it's particularly bad - you were in way over your head. Captain is a very tough role, and requires being able to follow multiple conversations and situations at once. In this case, you weren't so bad a Captain that a jobban was given (or even a note left
) - the whole situation was one where it's expected for an inexperienced Captain to have trouble. Having 2 of your heads as antags generally makes for a shit round as Captain. And personally, the 2 worst are hops and RDs.
I say all this to make it clear your standing has not fallen in the eyes of the community - or at least the staff here. Your story is not at all unusual, and I doubt Dan will remember it in a few months. Most of the staff team have worse notes on their record.
For the actual IC sides of how various things went down:
The demotion of the RD was technically legal -
QuoteSAY: Ahasera Zashora (118,137,1): (Command) 'Eat a bockss of dickss you MORONIC SSHITFACE.'
is grounds for demotion. But in this situation, it's a really dumb idea to do the demotion. Asserting your authority is not the priority with rogue borgs like this. You don't demote the CMO during a virus outbreak for insulting you, nor the HoS during nuke ops. You should accept and understand the RD is going to be angry (they usually are. If they're quiet, be worried). From the looks of things, all of command was quite angry with you for not communicating with them.
8 hours ago, Kugamo said:Either I wasnt paying attention very well, or there wasnt alot of communication between me and the other command members who were all trying to resolve the situation in their own ways.
I believe it's the former - with the 20/20ish hindsight that is logs, perfect in accuracy but without context - I can see that you missed a lot of chatter, and command had to repeat themselves frequently towards you.
It's also a bad idea to do a demotion like this when all of command is so against you. Always make sure the blueshield and HoS are on your side when demoting heads.
I say most of this because the way you speak of the round indicates that you've learnt from it, which means you have the potential of a great Captain.
As for the actual demotion, this could have been handled with a Centcomm message quite easily.
Instead a self-insert character was sent to insult and abuse you. This is not how you educate a Captain who is panicing and over his head.
I'm incredibly disappointed here, and will be talking with the other heads over the next few days as to what action will be taken.
Complaint is with merit. Action is pending.
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Hi there, thanks for your various reports.
While this is a fuckup by @Fraility (who has owned up to it to both here and to me in private ) I think this points towards a bit more of an institutional problem with the use of CC characters and their interactions with command.
We've had some guidelines, but I think the whole "identifying yourself" needs to become actual policy, with an established IC way of doing it. Use of force needs to be clarified, and likely a whole bunch more things that will happen as I write it.
On 11/18/2020 at 5:44 AM, WombatWave said:I hope nothing in the future will happen like this because of this encounter.
This will be the goal of this.
Complaint is with merit, Frailty has accepted this, and is being volunteered to help proofread any policy I write.
I'll leave this open for 3 days or so just in case you want to add anything more, otherwise I'll move it to resolved. As always, I can be PM'd on discord or forums or whatever to discuss this.
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Sparky and McGarks are both a little weird but fine - just keep the Dr. out of it, names are meant to represent just names, things like doctor/captain/clown/etc are part of the ID/job title.
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Oh and here's the work of (a whooole bunch of people) that we use now
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Shazbot!
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McRamon!
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So it seems asking for an entire room is a bit much, and a grand total of 2 people made it to the final entrance - although I did a bunch of discussion with people about sprite styles and learnt all about art things like room perspectives.
We'll be using the discussion from this to inform our decisions a bit more, and hopefully give people some idea of the kind of sprites we're looking for.
Without further ado, I present McRamon as the winner of the 2020 PAASC as voted by heads and maints. For the popular vote, feel free to thumbsup the posts below I guess?
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NT defines it as when a medhud registers them as dead. This is for insurance reasons.
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Uhhh kinda think we have enough
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The 2020 PAASC!
As teased in the Discord, I'm proud to announce the start of 2020 Paradise Art And Spriting Competition!
The goal of this competition is for the staff to be able to see a whole bunch of different styles of spriting, the the aim in mind of getting the chosen style spread throughout many of our sprites.
The winner will be chosen by a vote of the Heads and Maints, and chosen on the mixed grounds of subjective personal taste, how identifiable items are, and how they mesh with the current look of the station sprites.
The Prize, Details and Disclaimers:
The intent of this competition is for us to see a whole bunch of sprite styles, and hopefully select one to use as an overall style for the server.
The prize will be limited, as we don't want people trying extra hard for the competition. We want the work to be reflective of what you'd do if given the chance to redesign the sprites on the server - not what you'd do to show off your best art on a few pieces.
Given that, the prizes will be limited to accolades and bragging rights, with winner(s) seeing their sprites used in game and as a guide for future design.
We're also going to be using this process to help us select a Sprite Team, including an Art Lead. The winner will not necessarily be in charge of the team - great spriting ability =/= great leading ability. But we're going to use this as an opportunity to see the portfolios of people and help make our selection.
Competition End Date: 14 days from time of this post appearing in announcements.
The Actual Competition:
The following room has 27 sprites to redesign. You are not expected to necessarily redesign them all! Part of what we'll be looking for is people who know when not to redesign a sprite, either because it already works well or due to time constraints. We're looking for people who are going to be good at many of the practical aspects of sprite design in ss13.
Number 20 can be any form of poster that NT would allow.
Number 6, Monitor 1, Can be any monitor.
Number 10, Monitor 2, must be an operation computer.
You'll have to find those sprites in the game files yourself - that's a qualification you'll absolutely need!
Once you've recreated it, send me (necaladun#4908 on discord) all the seperate files in a zip or something, and a screenshot of the whole room together. I'll place them in this thread so everyone can see.
Disclaimer Parts:
Any sprites submitted to us for this competition are for Paradise to use, with attribution and credit - we might really like your jetpack sprite, but the rest of it might not work.
In the rare likelihood we don't like any of the designs, we reserve the right to declare no winner.
Best of luck to all entrants!
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Hi there, and thank you for posting this.
In this case, Danger comes across much more as an action-hero style title than a name. Dan Danger would be a much more realistic name. Dan "Danger" Smith would also work and allow you to say "danger is my middle name".
Or you could steal the last name of my 2nd grade teacher Ms Dangerfield if you want super realistic.
However, Danger Dan itself I'm going to have to say is way too much of a comic book name than the kind of names we want for the server.
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Apologies for the delay, thought this one was done and other AC's bumped it.
When something like this happens, the admin has to make a judgement call on whether or not the player is telling the truth. It'd be nice if we could assume people are always telling the truth, but it doesn't take long as an admin before you're fairly jaded from people swearing they never hit someone despite the 100 attack logs saying otherwise. I don't think it's at all outside of the realm of possibility that a player would choose to ignore an AI command, then pretend they didn't see it. Unfortunately, that's not something the logs can show the truth of.
It appears Frailtiy was on the fence here, and was willing to just leave the situation alone after telling you to follow the AI and your laws...up until you asked specifically how to desync. That seems beyond suspicious to me, given the timing and context.
Additionally, desyncing from your master AI goes hugely against the spirit of synthetics and their relationship with the AI. Taking actions to specifically stop the AI from being able to order you around is very much going against the AIs wishes, unless they've specifically told you to for some strange reason.
This combined with the multiple other issues you've had with admins while playing a synthetic, seem more than enough grounds to issue a job ban from synthetics. @Fraility didn't misapply the rules or go out bounds here, and I trust his judgement.
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This is the height of middle school comedy.
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If people can't play against each other in a competitive game without taking it personally, then fuck'm. We shouldn't change the server because some people can't handle getting killed in a video game.
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15 minutes ago, Rebel0 said:
There is no real way to solve us v them mentality the moment you assign security to counter antags unless you are going to either curtail it or enforce some sort of 'strict' roleplay standards.
This also assumes it's a bad thing. Imo, and Us vs Them mentality between the security for a corporation and a group of agents trying to destroy said corporation seems utterly appropriate to the setting and RP. I don't get why we'd want to remove this.
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I think this whole idea makes some assumptions that just don't hold.
For a start, there are plenty of people who want to go down guns blazing when caught by sec. This means sec will still be afraid when confronting an antag that they'll be turned on and killed, thus handle them as such. I don't think we'll see more talking because of this change at all before the stun and cuff. If it's not guaranteed that they'll get parole, then giving themselves up to sec is a huge risk.
Secondly, it assumes that the RP of parole is the kind we want. And there's a few issues with it, being that the players, OOCly, know the person they're paroling is an antag with objectives. ICly, they're a known member of a terrorist organisation. Granting them parole because they didn't manage their objectives makes NT look incredibly naive at best, or willingly complicit at the least. If a member of Al-Queada is found with bomb making equipment, they don't sieze the equipment and let them go.
The fact they have to convince the magistrate - who, if they have two brain cells, will know they're a syndicate agent with objectives and all - that they won't reoffend is ripe for abuse too. It puts magistrates/captains in the position to choose whether or not an antag gets a second chance based purely on something subjective. The potential for metafriendship to come into play here is huge. Even if every magistrate is 100% above board and acts without bias, I would be shocked if we didn't get multiple accusations of magistrate bias.
Finally, there's asking whether we want to give antags a second shot. Lessening the risk generally makes for less exciting gameplay. Generally speaking, being caught out as an antag should be game over - which is quite fair, considering you're more than willing to end someone else's round by playing an antag. Having someones round ended isn't something we should be implicitly trying to avoid - it adds risk and danger and excitement to the players.
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Hi there, and thank you for bringing this to my attention - although perhaps not quite in the way you intended.
First of all, I'd like to quote part of the Legal SoP Wiki:
QuoteCivil Disputes settle matters outside of Space Law. As such, Civil Disputes cannot be settled with Brig Sentences. The sole exception to this rule is when the Civil Dispute reveals an actual crime has been committed, at which point it ceases being a Civil Dispute and falls under the purview of Security and Space Law.
You cannot threaten people with brig time because their actions are annoying (The clown would especially agree here). You can only sentence people for things covered by space law. Getting people brigged for things that are not crimes is the exact opposite of your job - you're meant to be making sure that space law is properly adhered to. Having someone brigged for a non-crime is incredibly poor form (And potentially illegal itself), and shows that you didn't read the guide to civil disputes - it is said twice, with bold letters, that brig time cannot be a result of a civil dispute.
On 9/4/2020 at 8:35 AM, Shaw said:This is where I get confused as to why Central would make a public announcement publicly shaming the magistrate's ruling for taking the appropriate channels and steps following Legal Standard Operating Procedure for a minor Civil Dispute?
Hopefully the above clears that up - you did not take the appropriate channels or steps at all. The admins could have PM'd you or jobbanned you or various other options, instead they went with a slightly snarky message from the boss. Admins are highly encouraged to be snarky as CC, as the Cyberiad is not seen as the most "proper" of stations, more akin to a combination insane asylum/research center/home of the robust.
This is perhaps the most minor way to approach this - and personally, I think too minor. If CC are going to resolve a situation where the Magistrate is acting illegally, it should be a lot harsher. Someone who is abusing their position as magistrate to have people brigged for non-crimes needs a serious warning or possible jobban. However it's up to the admins discretion as to whether to go for a minor IC warning or something more serious.
When it comes to the other report mentioned, it's hard to determine the exact situation - but if CC are aware people are carrying out executions with chainsaws, they're likely to see this as unusual and attempt to dissuade it. A desperate situation where a chainsaw is the only method of execution available is the rarity, and if that was the case, then a crew announcement or fax to CC to clear this up is all that's needed. CC don't often have all the information, and the admins have to decide how much of the information they have OOCly applies to CC ICly.
The second one mentioned - or more so, the lack or reply - is hard to comment on not knowing the situation. The admin simply could have been in the toilet and not seen the fax, been dealing with a bunch of ahelps, having their admins PMs filled with death threats and n-word spam, or a hundred other things. If there's a vital communication CC needs to respond to, an ahelp to ask admins whats happening with it is the best bet - it's pretty easy to miss a fax or two with the amount of things admins have on their screen.
On 9/4/2020 at 8:35 AM, Shaw said:What I hope this complaint will solve:
If nothing else, for admins to take an extra minute or two when writing announcements as CC to reflect, "Is this something CC should/would say?"
Ultimately it'd be great if admins could take a good hour or so to write one up in full corporate speak with fancy formatting - however, as said above, admins often don't have the time to do that. It'd be great if they did, but with the sheer amount of work admins have, this isn't always possible. I'd be interested in ways to help this, but simply asking the admins to put in more time and effort isn't really a working solution.
As there was no wrongdoing (Except by OP), and I've commented on their feedback, I'll mark this as resolved.
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No further replies for almost a month, moving to resolved.
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2 hours ago, Octus said:
the original ban was because of one comment
I'd like to jump to address this first of all. This misses the point entirely. The ban appears to be for a series of related incidents that you have previously been warned about.
You also seem to miss the point about specieism. Just because it's allowed, doesn't mean it's a free pass to be an asshole as long as it's against another species. Neither is your character having "anger issues" a free pass to act differently. "It's what my character would do" is one of the worst things any player in an RPG can say right before they be an asshole to other players.
Screaming for genocide against your coworkers is completely over the top. This isn't a nuanced look into a character with deep flaws that are expressed in interesting ways - this is you finding an excuse to play a character who is an asshole to others. You're the one who has chosen to make this character and enjoys playing them. And yes, while a certain degree of assholedom is expected between coworkers (Like in any real world workplace), you're calling for your coworkers to be murdered, and engaging in violence sometimes yourself.
Hence you were told to tone it down - because this is clearly a disruptive character.
Rules were broken here, you were told by and admin to tone down the speciesm for a start. There is a whole shade of nuance to explore between "snide comments", "subtle discrimination" and "calls for genocide" if you want to explore an interestingly flawed character.
The other rule of course is the ever popular rule 0. You're clearly playing a character who is active in their dickishness. A certain IC level of dickishness is generally expected, but in this case it got to the point an admin had to tell you to tone it down. From how you continued to act and how little attention this warning was given in this complaint shows me you're not really taking it seriously, and that's generally when bans come into play. How quickly this happens generally depends on the past history of the player, and yours is one that makes you a high maintenance player. In this case, it's SoP that admins are quicker to ban.
Overall, your play style has gotten to the point where you're considered to be a consistent net negative. I've looked over some of the logs from your time and I have to say I agree - your play style is antagonistic towards the other crew, and the constant "skree" and "skrek" in all caps is just obnoxious.
Given the above, I see no issue with the ban itself - you were warned to tone down your behavior and did not. Complaint is without merit.
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Apologies for the delay, as we messaged to talk about this I completely forgot there was an actual post to respond to.
Aby said it pretty well, but to sum up - consistent play on the server is generally needed to show that you're not just playing to be an antag and have a legitimate interest. If someone stops playing heavily when they can't be an antag, that's a pretty clear case - and especially with intentionally getting made an antag, it seems to indicate someone who plays simply for being antag.
Since it appears you haven't played in the past month or so, it might take a bit longer until we can be sure that you're willing to stick around, even if you can't be an antag at the moment.
As Abydos has done nothing wrong here, I'll move this to resolved.
Shame On You All
in Announcements
Posted
Clickbait title woo.
So let's talk about shaming culture.
Shame is an important social tool to indicate a societal attitude towards behaviour. Go look up sociology shit on wiki.
As crew, comments on your coworkers shape their actions. As admins, it can be our job to shame people for their behaviour. This can be done appropriately some times - but someone shouldn't feel too ashamed over a simple mistake, especially newbies.
This needs to be done carefully and correctly to ensure that it stops the behaviour, and teaches people the correct action.
You should avoid direct insults to the persons intelligence. This can cross IC/OOC boundaries, where your IC insults are being reflected at the person behind the screen.
Several people have talked to me recently about how they've been shamed by admins OOCly and ICly in a variety of circumstances. Some of these times have been appropriate to shame someone for their behaviour.
The degree to which this has been done and ways has not always been to my liking - I'd like to take this opportunity to remind admins that even a minor comment from someone with the power of a banhammer, comes across very strongly. Calling them an idiot in front of the entire station can be mortifying, and totally turn a new player off the game.
This is something that should be remembered when you play the game too. Everyone has off days, and abusing the CE for messing up the singularity isn't going to stop anyone getting sucked into it or make the shuttle arrive faster. When you criticise someone's actions, try to do it in a way that teaches them what the correct thing to do is, and doesn't humiliate the person behind the screen too much.
Over this weekend especially I'll be collecting various feedback etc on this, so feel free to message me. If you're reading old forum posts a year from now, also feel free to message me. It's literally my job to talk to players and the community about things like this.