necaladun

I think Dumb has said really most of what needs to say, but I'd just like to add that we're thankful for the time you put in and the help you gave, and that in no way should you see this as a permanent thing that cannot be undone. People sometimes unretire years later from their position, and I hope one day both yourself and the server are in a state where you can return.

Breenland has unretired

This is def something that is intended to be tweaked, the values are clearly not working out. Most likely booze will be made nonaddictive.

@BakBak Wow a CMO who knows their own limits and what they need to work on? You'll do fine if you don't think just being a super doctor is enough. Communication can be bloody hard at times in medbay when it's super busy - you can easily miss radio calls because you're focusing on surgery or something. Or sometimes it's a slow round and there just isn't anything that needs to be said except the occasional miner coming in needing cloning or whatever. One of the biggest things I find needs doing is talking to the HoS - if you inform the HoS that you're straightjacketting and delivering the clown (or some random greytider) to them, things go a lot more smoothly. In general command chat is a bit more streamlined (If the HoS or whoever is actually good). Calling for the CE to send someone to fix medbay is a lot quicker usually than asking over general radio. Hopefully, you won't ever have to really communicate with other departments at all. But in most shifts there'll be something useful you can communicate for sure - letting the captain and science know the RD is dead in some experiment, etc.

So Kyet's been doing these, but doesn't want to touch CMO because he's a scrub when it comes to the art of life and death, so I decided I'd rip him off and do one for CMO. F Tier: Chief of Grief This is just a greytider in a blue jacket really, and is cruisin for a bruisin with the banhammer. - Puts patients in disposals rather than healing them - Steals surgery tools for their own use (See below) - Forces surgery on people that isn't needed, such as removing their appendix just to eat it. - OD's on the Psych's meth E Tier: The useless. Not a griefer, but is just useless and a waste of the slot. Could be jobbanned from CMO easily with no great loss, they need to actually play as a good doctor. - Just doesn't do anything. - Doesn't speak on command or medical radio at all. - Doesn't delegate, just lets medbay run by itself without helping out. - Leaves the hypospray and compact defib in the locker because they're useless. D Tier: The super doctor Acts as a super doctor with chem and genetics access, without actually being a chief officer. Not bad as a doctor, but not a commander. - Uses chemistry to get all their own meds, not actually helping out the rest of medbay. - Takes patients away from people to do surgery when the other person had it handled (This is one of the worst things you can do to another doctor.) - Doesn't communicate with medbay or command, just tries to fix everyone themselves. - Takes all the supplies for themselves. C Tier: The decent commander This is the bare minimum a CMO should be doing. If you're doing this, you've passed. Only with a C though, so your parents will still be disappointed in you like they've always been. - Ensures medbay is properly set up - cloning, cryo, chemistry, etc. - Tells people to max suit sensors at the start of the shift then every 20 or so minutes. - Co-ordinates medbay over the medbay, making sure people are aware of incoming patients and are prepared for them - E.G. preparing charcoal when a bunch of spider victims are coming in. - Does the tricky stuff others might not know - brain transplants, SR, etc. - Takes patients away only when it's clear the doctors are stuffing up - like fixing internal bleeding when it's being ignored by newbie doctors (And then telling them why and what they should do in future!) B Tier: A good CMO A CMO worth their salt, keeps medbay running like clockwork. - Co-ordinates with Command to let them know of threats, such as blood drained bodies (Vampires!), or that most of mining is dead so not to expect minerals. This can also include viruses, xenos, multiple copies of the same body, or other things that command need to know about. - Makes sure chemistry are doing their job, and fills in if there are no chemists to produce the basic healing chems needed - Mannitol, Synthflesh, Cryo, etc. If chemistry are present but not doing their job (Eg, making meth and space drugs), then fires their asses and gets chemists that actually do their job. - Makes sure that advanced chems like mito are ready when the basics are done in chemistry. - Keeps an eye on genetics handing out powers. - Is also a good doctor, able to breeze through surgeries etc, and does them if no one else is available. - Oversees triage and makes sure that the people who need treatment first are getting it -Regularly checks the morgue to make sure the coroner is actually cloning people and not just gothing it up in the dark. If there are green lights on any of the morgue trays, then clones them themselves while yelling at the coroner for ignoring it. - Makes sure any Ody mechs delivered are locked away properly for paramedic use. - Not scared to use the telebaton on the clown trying to slip people who are busy saving lives and throw them out. - Keeps an eye on virology, making sure that the viro isn't releasing a bad virus, any released are being cured, and that good ones are broadcast for all and put in the public fridge. - Grabs a bottle of space cleaner and makes sure medbay is clean if the janitor is busy. A Tier: Leonard Bones McCoy A God of Life And Death. Makes medbay run smoothly, and insures that the only people dying are the ones the CMO wants to stay dead. - Keeps a careful eye on things like the syringe gun and straight jacket, to make sure no one is kidnapping people with them, especially the psych. - Uses the telebaton and other tools to kick troublemakers out of medbay, and reports them to security if needed. Might even deliver a straightjacketed and ether'd clown to security if they're causing too much trouble. Or just puts them in cryo with a bottle of ether for a few minutes before throwing them out - remember, medical essentially has it's own brig cells with less escape risk. - Helps new doctors when there is time, teaching them basics and advanced techniques, or assigns them an experienced doctor to shadow. If it's quiet, humanizes a monkey, then beats the crap out of them to give new doctors some practice. - Makes sure that Slimes and Vox are being properly given new bodies if there old ones aren't being fixed up. If a fresh one with SM can't be made, then gets them at least into a human body. Or Tajaran if you're feeling cruel. - Might even bring a welder and cable for those annoying mechanical bits the rest of med can't fix up. - Skilled enough to actually help a viro fix any virus releases, and advise on better mixes for public release ones, which are announced, the forms stamped, and a copy put next to the public fridge so people can see the symptoms. Also makes sure a good name is chosen for it. - Hits the quarantine shutters in the 0.1% of times it's actually needed and helpful, but also TELLS EVERYONE WHY. - Kills off the monkeys in virology and genetics if there's a threat because of them (Biohazards like a virus or white terror spiders) - Gets advanced tools for surgery when available, yells at R&D to upgrade them. Bonus if they put a labelled hypospray of hydrocodene in surgery. Bonus: My loadout! Here's what I usually supply myself with at the start of every shift: Penlight in the ear, switched on. 5 Brute, 5 Burn patches in a patch kit - add a shitload of synthflesh when chemistry has some - in the belt. 5 Mannitol, 2 Mutadone, 5 Salbutamol, 5 SR pills in a pill bottle, in the belt. Advanced Health Analyzer on the jacket. Hypospray emptied of omnizene and given to chemistry. Refilled with a 50/50 salbutamol/atropine mix. Both half-full bottles combined and kept to refill it. In the belt. A bottle of charcoal emptied into a medical hypospray. In the belt, labelled if possible. Compact defib in the backpack, to be swapped with medical belt if needed. Surgeon cap, nitrile gloves, sterile mask, stethoscope - gotta look the part. Finally, make sure to always gib Korala whenever they come in, even if it's for 3 brute damage.

One of the biggest issues here is that if command are immune to being antags, then the knowledge of that affects how they're treated, and suddenly there's no problem with the RD being armed to the teeth or the CE having a super flamethrower. Part of the fun of SS13 is the mistrust and paranoia, and having all of command be immune to that takes away from the game.

Drakeven has been promoted to fullmin (yay) Shatterdcoyote has returned to active duty.

If we get overly specific in the rules it implies that things left out are ok, so we try to keep it generic. That and our rules are already huge - we don't want to scare people off from the server by making them read a george rr martin book of rules. In general, self antagging means doing things an antag would do. Breaking into the armoury is a great example there. Crimes that make it harder for otherpeople to do their job are also best avoided. Stealing vital tools or the like is an example there. In general crimes should be rp'd. People won't risk a permabrig sentence because they're bored. Another good rule of thumb is - "what if everyone acted like this". If everyone stole some gloves or hacked a door in maint, no biggie. If everyone tried to break into security, every round, sec would be overwhelmed. Remember you are not the only player on the server, so don't act like a protagonist. The round isn't just your story.

Peacekeeper borgs were a mistake I am not eager to repeat.

Emergency kits are really meant for space and vacuum (hence the oxy masks). The epipen is for short term stabilization, not healing. Cable coils and welders are very much outside the realm of that, and not really the main idea of the thread. They've been brought up before and rejected. Oil is interesting but I feel has some of the problems of being too long term. I'd much prefer perhaps another oil despenser thats not just the one in robotics or delivered from cargo. Preferably a small one, but robotics is really the only logical place. Maybe a random spawn in maint.

Before it was fixed, the logs wouldn't properly show who was in control, and finding the right person was hell. Messaging the borer/host mind was really difficult... Before the community really got used to them, there was a mentality of using them to cause as much damage as possible - to the crew and the host body. Honestly this is very rare these days, but I just have bad memories that bias me.

Changlings, Spiders, Nuke Ops, Constructs, are 4 examples off the top of my head. There are many other lawsets than crewsimov as well. And for rogue ones, harmbatoning is quite better than lasers at times. If they're harmbatoning on crewsimov, Ahelp it and we can look into it.

Absolutely...except maybe for when spores werecontagious and you ended up with 10 blobs. Reflectives are a huuuge buff. Mechs should remain powerful imo - they are very hard to pump out early in blob and xeno rounds. Midround antags getting mech stomped im fine with - its gives a good reason for the crew to have them. Midrounds are a good opportunity to use them well and be rewarded for building them. If a midround gets stomped thats fine imo. Terrors and xenos can also quite easily avoid direct combat with them. A direct fight against a giant armoured mech covered in guns should be a bad idea.

Sec borgs will not be getting any buffs, more likely nerfs. They are incredibly powerful as it is. All access, immunity to chems, atmos, tazers, etc etc etc.

Yeah people going for a high score or just to beat others will be fun I reckon. Great idea.

Absolutely not priority, can't say about necessary for the sm stuff but overall: I like a lot of the theory here, but in the end it comes down to the issue of: the fact that there's really no point to having it up too high or anything, when a main engine isn't even really needed to power the station at all. However the general idea of being able to turn an engine up to "dangerous" levels that can only be sustained with constant monitoring I really like.

It's not so easy to just replace it with something special - you have to come up with an idea and then enable whatever is needed to spawn it, all the while looking for the everpresent greytide etc, and hoping it isn't a nukeops round or something that'll end too soon. It's a lot of effort for just one round. If coded in it means a long lasting change to multiple rounds.

This is something I really want to see, sadly it needs a lot of work and balance and coding behind it. Please do suggest them, and message me if you're willing to code them.

Some of the oldmins, myself included, may also be a bit biased due to seeing some very awful borers over the years....not to mention a time the logging fucked up with them that was hell on us mins. Not to say this is a good reason to be against them, just to put our bias on the table as we've seen how bad they can go. I'd personally like to see them as more dangerous so people don't want a brain controlling parasite in their head.

https://ss13.moe/wiki/index.php/Borer Have some very interesting abilities on vg. How that would combine with objectives idk but worth a read.

Me holds his hands up in surrender. Me flips the bird, begging for death. Me accepts his fate.

Were it to become policy that warnings and the like were to become public, admins who hide notes without good reason would be dealt with. But, that doesn't matter, because after discussing this with numerous players, staff, and staff of other servers, I am absolutely against this. The current system we have is completely sufficient. Hopefully people with take the time to read what the staff have said here, and my own clarification on how disputing or reviewing notes can work, and stop spreading misinformation, or just outright bullshit. I don't think continuing this thread will be at all productive. The points have been made, discussed, and I've come to a decision here.

Same. Or I'll simply forget to add a note or not bother to because it was something so minor and they'll assume that I made it invisible. We already have a lot of bad faith assumptions and misinformation - this thread is a great example here - that people aren't going to assume the best at all. Players are already able to record any interactions they wish. Players are able to appeal or raise concerns with notes already, in which case I have shown them on quite a few occasions - although this has more been for peace of mind with the player, as the notes generally have been incredibly minor. We are in no way denying players the ability to record admin feedback and improve upon it. This is just completely untrue. I have state in a previous post I'm happy to hear people out, have done so in the past, and that there are means to do so that have been used in the past repeatedly. If you wish your concerns to be heard by the admins, then you need to give us the courtesy of also listening to us when we reply to them. Having to repeatedly make these points in the same thread is incredibly frustrating. It's incredibly disrespectful to the admins who are trying very hard to address these concerns and putting a fair bit of time and effort in to do so. The idea that there is "no means to review or dispute" these notes is completely untrue. I very much hope this is because you just didn't bother reading what I had said, rather than the possible alternatives to that. We require secret tracking of things like VPNs, ban evasion, Metagaming, bug exploitation and server crashing, etc, as has been now stated repeatedly. Of course we have to save information like this. It's incredibly naive to think otherwise. Overall this thread is showing me the problem here isn't that notes are private - it's false assumptions and incorrect information. While I've tried to clear a lot of this up, it's incredibly disappointing that people are continuing to repeat things that we've taken the time to address and show otherwise. I'll state again for hopefully the final time before the meeting: The admin complaints forum can be used for reviews or disputes of notes. You can contact admins to talk about your notes. Headmins might be happy to reveal your notes to you. We require information on ban evasion, metagaming, etc, to be secret, and this will not be changing.

Understandable but thats rarely an issue. 6 months is a pretty long time snd time is taken into account, depending on the severity. And if when pmd the player says "sorry its been awhile and i totally forgot" thats generally all thats needed. Otoh things like "do not use racist abuse" are one to 0 warnings depending on severity. People very much underestimate how much their responses to admins affect things. Not saying you need to grovel and beg (being called sir i thought was sarcastic for awhile until admins of other cultures explained how it can be honest), but saying "rules are for pussies" as one player just said to an admin awhile ago can turn a warning for something minor into a ban quite fast.

I highly encourage this if there is any problem or concern - but first of all it might be best to just chuck us a message. Often these things can be cleared up with just a quick, straightforward chat. This is especially easier if it's done when everything is fresh in memory. I'm really not interested however in showing someone all their notes for their curiosity so they can be nitpicked over. This is especially the case with notes that are incredibly subjective. Is player X "a bit too aggressive" in OOC? Were they not grieifing, but actually trolling? Does it really matter if they only hit the clown 22 times with a toolbox, rather than the 24 the note claims? We really have better things to do than have players argue all that with us. That's not however to say you can't dispute warnings, or discuss them with admins, to clarify situations or have the note rectified...but we're really not interesting in digging over things from potentially 6 years ago. I'm happy to discuss notes, bans, or just general concerns...or other video games etc...with anyone who PMs me - whether from the server or not. I can't guarantee we'll show you your notes, or show all of them, etc, but I can say I'll hear you out and try to address your concerns. I may be busy, IRL etc can be a bitch, but I'll at least try to direct you to someone who does have time to address your concerns. This will not ever happen, at all. We will not reveal sensitive information that players have trusted us with, nor will we make it known how we investigate or detect metagaming, ban evasion, etc. This is not worth discussing, because it won't happen. This is not the "end of the world", of course, but stopping ban evasion, metagaming, etc, is much more important than what is ultimately a few nitpicks over 0.1% of notes for 0.1% of players. PM an admin of your choice! Even our trialmins by now have a few dozen bans under their belt. If you have any problems with how they discuss it with you, or just want further clarification, feel free to drop me or another headmin a PM. I don't particularly mind if you come to me first either. Hell, we even have some lists around of what languages people know if you think it'd be clearer and more comfortable with another language than english - pm me or another admin to try to find someone of your language. We really don't like a peanut gallery chipping in or people getting a small snippet of it, and running wild with it. Also, ESPECIALLY if it's a recent ban, feelings may still be running a bit hot - it might be best to wait a day or two. There's a sweet spot between "too long ago to remember well" and "too recently to be objective". Yes...and no. Bwoinks and notes over accidents happen - if you welderbomb or release plasma or the singularity by accident, you might still get a note about it. This is more so we can note that you now know what not to do, and that if it repeats the next round (and another, and another...) then it's likely not an accident. This can be a very intimidating game to newcomers. How is a newbie to know that a toy lasertag gun is a toy when they just see red beams and white on their screen, or that a single hit with a hatchet isn't really that lethal? People shouldn't be afraid to be wrong sometimes, but they should learn from it (and not call the admins powertripping nazi-fags when pm'd about it.). We really do take into account the amount of time that has passed and how new you are at the time. If you ICd in OOCd and welderbombed and beat an SSD in your first 20ish hours of playing we really do not give a shit a few hundred hours of gameplay later.....assuming you have stopped. I'd like players to be able to do that for their own bans for sure. Not for other peoples however, as this I believe would lead to people being treated poorly. Warnings here really aren't anywhere near as "official" as Steam or the like, they very in severity heavily. It could be a "hey could you tone that down" to "seriously do not ever do that ever again". There really seems to be a lot of assumptions here that are incorrect, whether from misinformation, or bad-faith assumptions about the admins and how we operate. No admin app is denied simply "because of notes". Discussions are held about all candidates. For anyone to be banned rather than warned because of their notes, it's rarely one single note. There are plenty of cases of people with 10-20+ notes. If it is one single note, it's because of something directly relating to what you were just recently warned about, or it's a realllly bad offense. If you start to think of the admins in less of an "us vs them" mentality when it comes to players (of which admins also are), and more people who spend a lot of time PMing people to explain to them why you can't hit an SSD with a toolbox, that you're not to use racial abuse, ERP with Ian (yes, multiple times), etc, as well as trying to get a good RP atmosphere without a validhunting murderboning culture, then it will make a lot more sense why we do the things we do and the way we do. Yes, we make mistakes obviously, the appeals and admin complaints list many, many, of the mistakes over the years. We're human - if we're having a bad day we might be a bit harsher or grumpy or abrupt. But all in all, what bans come down to is - do we think this behavior will continue, and do we think this person makes the server a better place.