Make Genetics a Karma Job, and enforce more rules about it.

[sdtwbaj]

Geneticist isn't a vital role, yet it can absolutely break a round. A rogue/greytide/self-antagging geneticist can really fuck up a round and cause a superb headache for the CMO, Security, and the station in general. I suggest it be turned into a 10-karma job, and have more strict rules enforced around it to prevent Genetics from being abused, a la pre-lockbox Science.

[Spacemanspark]

While I agree that Genetics needs some attention, Paradise will not make vanilla jobs into karma jobs.

[Doukan]

 

They have two heads of staff who're meant to be keeping tabs on them, if genetics being out of control is a problem then it's something the CMO/RD should have picked up on.

 

That, and rampaging hulks are half the reason medbay starts with syringe guns.

 

[Shadeykins]

The issue with keeping tabs on them is almost entirely because they have two heads of staff.

[sdtwbaj]

 

While I agree that Genetics needs some attention, Paradise will not make vanilla jobs into karma jobs.

Think of it this way. It isn't a job that is vital or necessary to the station, yet it is a job that produces large amounts of power and powerful/easily abusable abilities. Newbies will tend to go it, get every power, then run amok and cause a bunch of unneeded self-antaggy shit.

 

We really should pull them away from the RD and give them to the CMO. Science already has power, give something for medical to run

 

[Knightedskull]

 

The issues are generally:

 

• Power hunger by either Rd or Geneticist.

• The CMO not considering genetics worth a damn, leaving genetics unchecked.

The RD going apeshit for it and abusing his position.

The RD or Geneticist abusing the powers.

Geneticist being incompetent.

Or geneticist straight up ignoring orders.

 

The main problem isn't that the genetics has two heads, but because, generally, their bad habits are being fed and recent change of of who holds the leash makes the abuses more likely.

 

Out of several RDs the majority I've interacted with one that was level headed and actually got the guy to do his cloning duties before I fired him.

The others, generally, superfart everywhere, hulk out, or ( in one case) actually try and move genetics lab into the testing chamber.

 

Back on track, Genetics can be a vital role in medical. It is not on the same level as a brig doctor as security can be fully functional without one.

Medical without genetics can be seriously be held back so I do not recommend making it a Karma Job.

Plus: it's a low-stress job without much responsibility beyond a clean SE and working the cloner.

 

[Nakhi]

 

People have talked about making things like Genetics a karma job after there's a string of abuses in a short period. I know it has gotten a bit worse, and I think it's in part due to the fact that a large number of RD and CMO players tend to play the roles as lords over their domain, wanting everything to work how they want, and rarely those two heads communicate. I've heard of RDs running in to demand powers and CMOs that demand that geneticists get rid of their powers and flaunting the new SOP to try to enforce their will (unsuccessfully).

 

Ultimately, it won't be karma locked, since where will it end if that happened? The idea of karma is a reward for good roleplay, and thus the roles locked behind them are heavier in roleplay. Locking the geneticist behind basically RP points to unlock a role that's... click buttons for two hours isn't really what the system is for.

 

So, in short, (try to) make the RD and CMO work together and agree on things. That'd probably solve most, if not all, of the issues that lead to genetics abuse.

 

[Knightedskull]

 

Actually with the new SOP the CMO can't have the RD or genetics lose their powers off the bat anymore.

They only have authority regarding biomods if it is abused.

 

But I do agree that would help solve more issues and better than just sticking genetics into medical only.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

If Genetics is being a shit:

 

1) Make a large beaker of Mutadone;

 

2) Grab Syringe Gun and 4-5 Syringes;

 

3) Go to town

 

Just a few rounds ago, with there being no CMO, Genetics was happy giving Hulk to everyone. Seeing as no one needed surgery, I stocked up on Mutadone, hunted down everyone with Hulk and gave them a shot with the Syringe gun.

 

Call Security, and have the shitlers demoted. If they protest, apply Mutadone syringe and have Security use their now very useful batons.

 

There are two Heads of Staff who are supposed to handle Genetics. Problems arise either when the CMO doesn't give a shit about them and/or the RD has no idea how to control them. Seriously, Mutadone fixes all problems.

 

[davidchan]

 

Genetics just needs a repass with the powers either hidden better (the UI and SE randomly occupying the same 50~ blocks) or the powers being overhauled to balance them out more.

 

Hulk is generally the one people talk about, and I agree that it's a bit ridiculous and should probably be split into two separate powers, wall smashing strength and stun immunity, or have powers gain synergy bonuses so taking on certain defects could make other powers function better.

 

Genetics is generally too straight forward to my taste and is a job that can be completed in 20 minutes or less if you know what you're doing with nothing to do for the rest of the shift but abuse those powers.

 

As far as rules go, the fact that Science SOP doesn't restrict the Geneticists themselves from using powers outside of their lab is a complete failure. Without permission, it SHOULD be a punishable crime for genetics to have/use their powers outside the confines of Genetics, and yet they are free load up on everything and wander the halls without consequence. Genetics and Toxins should be treated the same way, you're allowed to test and develop your work in the designated lab areas, but you better have a damn good reason to remove your work from the lab for real world use if you don't want it confiscated and you yourself thrown in the brig.

 

[Kyet]

 

Geneticist isn't a vital role, yet it can absolutely break a round. A rogue/greytide/self-antagging geneticist can really fuck up a round and cause a superb headache for the CMO, Security, and the station in general.

 

The same is true of several other jobs, including Toxins Researcher, Botanist, most Medbay Chemists, most Engineers, etc.

 

It doesn't make sense to karma-lock one of them, but not the others.

 

Even if it did, I'd say Toxins would be a better candidate for karma-locking than Genetics.

Toxins-based self-antagging is far more destructive, and the effects far harder to reverse.

 

People don't generally think "it can break a round" is a good reason to karma-lock a job, especially not a default job.

 

If Genetics is being a shit:

 

1) Make a large beaker of Mutadone;

 

2) Grab Syringe Gun and 4-5 Syringes;

 

3) Go to town

 

Just a few rounds ago, with there being no CMO, Genetics was happy giving Hulk to everyone. Seeing as no one needed surgery, I stocked up on Mutadone, hunted down everyone with Hulk and gave them a shot with the Syringe gun.

 

Call Security, and have the shitlers demoted. If they protest, apply Mutadone syringe and have Security use their now very useful batons.

 

There are two Heads of Staff who are supposed to handle Genetics. Problems arise either when the CMO doesn't give a shit about them and/or the RD has no idea how to control them. Seriously, Mutadone fixes all problems.

 

This is correct, though I would add it is also possible for the CMO to not know how to control them and/or the RD to not give a damn. Frequently, RDs have a lot to keep tabs on and thus tend not to give a damn about most things until they become a problem.

 

When I play RD, and I trust sec, I will often give the HoS a Rapid Syringe Gun loaded with mutadone (and possibly the bar drink neurotoxin). A single shot of this strips their powers (and, if containing NT, also immobilizes them so they can be arrested).

This gift is accompanied by a "by the way, you have standing permission from me to use this on anyone you see abusing genetic powers. If they're a geneticist, please let me know as well because I will probably want them demoted". I realize that isn't strictly necessary, but sometimes it helps. As RD, it really helps to walk into genetics early on, give them a medibot (for the toxins) and make it clear that power distribution is only authorized for sec/command. That way they have no grounds for "you never told me" complaints later if unauthorized power distribution results in a syringe to the face and a one-way-trip to the HoP line.

 

[KasparoVv]

 

"You never told me" isn't really an argument since I'm fairly sure it's SOP not to be a cunt with Genetics

 

That said, lynch Geneticists who do nothing but grind powers to screw with people and cause problems

Player complaint repeat offenders (forums)

 

It's become more and more common that, because people are abusing things, the things themselves are adjusted-- why not 'adjust' the people abusing?

 

As much as I'm sure certain people would love to nerf Genetics into obscurity and irrelevance via whatever means possible, there's other ways to deal with problems.

 

[Kyet]

 

"You never told me" isn't really an argument since I'm fairly sure it's SOP not to be a cunt with Genetics

I never said it was a good argument.

I am simply trying to be as fair as possible, and when trying to do that, forewarning people helps.

It also helps when security ask why I am dragging the genetics guy in cuffs to the HoP line for demotion. "I told him specifically not to give out powers to anyone except sec/command. He decided to start giving random civilians hulk, regardless." works a lot better than "he should have known not to give out hulk".

 

It's become more and more common that, because people are abusing things, the things themselves are adjusted-- why not 'adjust' the people abusing?

 

As much as I'm sure certain people would love to nerf Genetics into obscurity and irrelevance via whatever means possible, there's other ways to deal with problems.

 

Agreed.

 

[alexpkeaton]

 

Several people have commented that Genetics having two heads is a good thing.

 

I'm not so sure.

 

Now I rarely play medical, never play science, and have never been head of either. But when you give one department to two managers, you are tacitly telling each manager that they don't have to be fully involved with that department.

 

Honestly, I think Genetics having the RD and CMO can give rise to the classic 80's sitcom trope of the children being assumed by one parent to be with the other when in actuality the child is on their own, abandoned by both. Not every time, of course, but with other active things to worry about in their departments, passive responsibilities like checking in with genetics might be overlooked, especially when things go to shit aboard the station as they usually do around 13:00 - right when genetics likely has their full powers slate.

 

I think the best thing that could be done is to house genetics in one department or the other. But my reasoning for it is purely academic and not based on experience. Can people who play RD or CMO explain how they manage genetics? And can people who play geneticist say how often they actually do get managed and if my impression of abandonment does happen from time to time?

 

[Jamania]

This thread sounds like its slowly going to trail back to whether Genetics should be Medical or Science.

[necaladun]

 

I've always treated geneticists handing out hulk to everyone the same as a warden handing out the contents of the armoury to everyone. It's jobban and brig worthy at the least.

 

As for karma-locking it, it's long been a policy that no vanilla jobs will be karma locked.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

As far as rules go, the fact that Science SOP doesn't restrict the Geneticists themselves from using powers outside of their lab is a complete failure.

 

The Geneticist is permitted to test Genetic Powers on themselves. However, they are not to utilize these powers on any crewmembers, nor abuse them to obtain items/personnel outside their access;

 

[Professor Cupcake]

 

TullyBBurned.

ohgodimsorrythatwasterriblepleasrforgivealmightysopmaster

 

[sdtwbaj]

 

As far as rules go, the fact that Science SOP doesn't restrict the Geneticists themselves from using powers outside of their lab is a complete failure.

 

The Geneticist is permitted to test Genetic Powers on themselves. However, they are not to utilize these powers on any crewmembers, nor abuse them to obtain items/personnel outside their access;

Yeah, that says nothing regarding outside of the genetics lab.

 

[Knightedskull]

 

As CMO, I always make sure the geneticists do their cloning jobs, have a few bodies on standby, and that they know their SOPs.

Frequent checkups (when not swamped with CMO work) and an open ear to comms to make sure powers aren't being given out or abused by either geneticists or RD.

Failure to do their jobs (by choice), or abuse, leads to automatic demotion and all that entails, regardless how the RD feels (unless they help get them to do their job first).

 

Someone dies from a random SE on the floor (or one literally farted out of the room? Someone's going to brig. (exceptions being cargo workers).

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

As far as rules go, the fact that Science SOP doesn't restrict the Geneticists themselves from using powers outside of their lab is a complete failure.

 

The Geneticist is permitted to test Genetic Powers on themselves. However, they are not to utilize these powers on any crewmembers, nor abuse them to obtain items/personnel outside their access;

Yeah, that says nothing regarding outside of the genetics lab.

 

... how exactly does that say nothing about outside the Genetics Lab?

 

"Any crewmembers", by definition, are outside the Lab. Items/Personnel outside their access are, by definition, outside the Lab.

 

Literally that entire Guideline reads "Genetics are not allowed to abuse their powers on anything but testing".

 

[davidchan]

 

The Geneticist is permitted to test Genetic Powers on themselves. However, they are not to utilize these powers on any crewmembers, nor abuse them to obtain items/personnel outside their access;

 

Literally that entire Guideline reads "Genetics are not allowed to abuse their powers on anything but testing".

 

No, it only says it's only punishable if they use their powers to commit a crime with them, not walking around outside of genetics.

 

They are still ripe for abuse, and given how Robotics is banned from even making combat mechs, let alone strolling the station with them regardless of use in Green makes Genetics freely able to load up on obvious powers and stroll around a-okay just ridiculous. How is having an empty Gygax a punishable offense yet someone displaying Telekenisis and Hulk powers in the bar just fine? Are these SoP guildelines intended to be written from the point of view of an idiot or do they just intentionally have gaps and contradicti themselves?

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Military Exosuits have precisely one purpose: to be mobile weapons platforms. Sure, you can fit the Gygax with Utility gear, but their entire purpose is to fill combat roles. That's what they are: a heavily armored combat chassis with guns. Their one use is combat.

 

Genemods on the other hand cover a wide range of abilities that can legitimately be used for useful purposes. Telekinesis, while (sadly) abused a lot of the time, can actually be used to help people during emergencies, or just fuck around with a workplace and give the chef all the ingredients so they don't have to move. They aren't, by necessity and nature, something with a single purpose. They can be used to help the crew.

 

--- --- ---

 

Military Exosuits can also only reasonably be countered with Ion weaponry, which immensely endangers anyone who even comes close to the damn thing, not to mention that if the person in the Exosuit is fast/good enough, they can very well take down whoever tries to shoot them. Tracker Beacons are just laughable.

 

Genemods can be instantly removed with half a unit of Mutadone. Literally all it takes to strip someone of them is a Syringe Gun, a Syringe and some Mutadone. Any doctor can do it. Hell, anyone can do it via applied use of a table and a Mutadone pill. I have no idea why CMOs don't just do this more often. It literally takes a single minute to stop a Geneticist from being a shit about their powers.

 

TL;DR: Exosuits and Genemods are apples and oranges. Don't compare them.

 

[Fox McCloud]

Genetics being a karma job isn't going to happen.

[Knightedskull]

 

Kinda hard to stun the hulk and force feed them mutadone while their farts launch you through the wall.

 

Surprise Hypospray is the only way to go.