Antag buff/nerfs/tweak ideas

[Jared12100]

Buckle in, grab some food, this is gonna be a long one.

 

Firstly: EVERYTHING HERE IS MY OPINION. AND I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE WITH ME. These are just my thoughts based on current antags both from playing as them and against them for awhile now. I understand entirely if someone disagrees with anything/everything I say and I want to hear suggestions from others as well. That being said; lets get down to it.

 

Traitors:

Who can and can't be a traitor:

- Currently only the Captain and Security staff cannot be traitors

- The following should not be able to be traitors: The HoP, The CE, The RD, All of security, The Captain

- The CE, RD, and HoP are still not mind-shielded however.

- Logic: In the lore, the HoS, all officers, and the Captain are heavily screened prior to being given their jobs thus why they cannot be traitors and such. It does not make any sense that on a research station that the head of research would not under go such screening. The HoP is the second in command, why would they be lax with him/her? And the Chief Engineer is in charge of maintaining the largest station that NanoTrasen owns thus it makes no sense for this person to no be screened.

Rules based changes & clarifications:

- Theft based objectives do justify murder, but do not justify making said person un-revivable. I.E: You can kill the captain to steal the medal of captaincy, but you can't space his brain or creamate his brain.

- If you have the assassination objective, you should not kill your target extremely early into the round (perhaps a 30 minute delay first) without ahelping it first. Remember: everyone here wants to play the game, you can't do that if you're dead.

- maroon objectives fall under the same guideline as assassination, assuming you opt to kill the target

- Security is only valid to be killed if you are wanted, if you have no real reason to kill security outside of "they are the people who are hunting antags" then you should ahelp prior to killing an officer, exceptions include killing an officer to avoid a search that would result in you becoming wanted or similar situations.

- Traitors are meant to make the round interesting, while you are expected to attempt your objectives, we ask you try and make things interesting as well, thus the rule on killing early. Failure to make the round interesting and only caring about completing your objectives may result in a ban from traitors. It's not about winning, it's about fun and RP for everyone.

Traitor gear cost changes:

Note: Anything not listed does not need any change in my opinion.

- EMP kits: from 2 TC to 6.

Reason: Besides instantly killing IPC, the EMP kit also disables borgs, allowing for easy emagging, also can be used to drain tasers and other energy based weapons that security uses. Overall, for the variety of situations it can help with it is extremely cheap.

- Holoparasites: from 12 to 16 TC

Reason: Holoparasites are extremely useful in terms of both combat and utility, depending on the type. For that reason I feel they should be more expensive.

- Martial arts scroll: from 17 to 15 TC

Reason: The benefits from the scroll in combat are extremely good, yes. But not being able to use ranged weapons at all plus the mass cost make it a bit too much of an "all in" which, in my opinion, makes it need a small price drop, thus allowing the traitor to buy something else as well.

- Sleepy pen: from 8 to 12 TC

Reason: Let's face it, 99% of murders from traitors use the sleepy pen. Simply because... it's easy to kill someone who is asleep. and you make said person fall asleep without drawing any attention. Not to mention the pen can be refilled with other chems after it' used. Thus, I believe for its usefulness it should be nerfed from 8 to 12 TC. If anything else to encourage people to try other forms of murder.

- Agent ID card: From 2 to 1 TC

Reason: I never see people use this. Maybe making it cheaper would help?

- EMP Flashlight: from 4 to 5 TC

Reason: Similar to the EMP kit, but unlike that kit this has unlimited uses on a recharge

- EMAG: From 6 to 10 TC

Reason: The emag can open literally any unbolted door, it can subvert borgs to your cause AND upgrade them, as well as disable practically any other system that may be in your way. It has no cool down and an unlimited number of uses. I would argue this is the single most used and most useful traitor item an agent can buy. And for that reason it should cost a lot more.

- Hacked AI upload module: From 14 to 16 TC

Reason: Hacking the AI with new laws is arguably the best thing a traitor can get. For one, if the AI is subverted, so are the borgs. Not to mention the sheer power the AI has which is now on the side of the traitor is extremely good. Need to steal the docs from the vault? Ask the AI to let you in. Need to steal the AI? Tell it to let you take it. The list goes on. A subverted AI can make a traitors life extremely easy, thus the module should cost more.

- Adrenal Implants: from 8 to 12

Reason: Adrenals... are extremely good. Free near total stun proofing and a move speed buff can make a traitor nearly impossible to detain, and still hard to kill. Thus the price should be moved up a bit.

- Mindslave Implant: From 10 to 11

Reason: The only reason it goes up 1 TC is to prevent a traitor from having 2 mindslaves. Because having 2 people help you, or just straight up do your job for you, is extremely good.

- Uplink Implant: From 14 to 12 TC, still gives 10

Reason: This change basically lowers the cost of the uplink implant from 4 TC to 2 TC, It's not that useful but ensuring you don't need your PDA for gear can be. Overall though, its mostly situational. As such it should cost less.

Other Changes:

The tele-gun, which can only be gotten by the RD, would now be available to scientists at the price of 16 TC. 

Final notes:

Obviously a lot of these changes may seem to hinder traitors. But really they are intended to encourage creativity and diverse use of all traitor items. Obviously this concept doesn't apply to EVERYONE, but, I don't think anyone can really disagree that the emag is the most used traitor item by far in general.

Changelings:

Who can and can't be a changeling:

- The same concept applies from traitors: All of command and security cannot be changelings at shift start, obviously the changeling can become a head of staff later if they absorb one

Rules based changes and clarifications:

- Being a changeling is NOT an excuse to murderbone, you are free to kill up to your required absorption objective requirement, but after that point you fall under the same scrutiny as traitors do for killing, exception is given to security and command in this case as inflation of either of these groups is extremely useful and understandable as a tactic. Otherwise, you should not be killing without good reason. "I need more DNA points!" is not a sufficient reason.

Mechanic changes

- Changelings have a very unique brain, It will be labeled as such in surgery as "Changeling Brain of (name)" allowing for a reliable means to test changelings. Space law will be updated to show that you cannot just take anyone and shove them into surgery to test. The brain will need to be removed in order to test, but under space law MUST be returned to the body and revived IMMEDIATELY after. Failure to do so will be treated as manslaughter under space law. This exists as a means to reliably test changelings.

- Cryosting does not work while cuffed OR gives a prompt of the changeling using it while cuffed, (no prompt when not cuffed however)

No suggested changes to DNA point cost of changeling powers

Nuclear Operatives:

No changes here. Although they could use a buff when we sometimes get really high pop.

Wizards:

No changes. Although I'd like for the option to declare war as a wizard in a similar manner to nuke ops. "GREETINGS. I COME ON BEHALF OF THE WIZARDS FEDERATION!" - Steven the Spooky. Declaring war would not be the same as giving the crew guns/magic, but instead giving the crew 10 minutes to prepare. Gives the wizard 3 more spell points.

Cult:

Who can and can't be a cultist:

- See: Traitors.

Rules based changes and clarifications:

- The cult is NOT permitted to kill anyone unless: They are security or another active threat that cannot be dealt with non-lethally. "Bring forth the slaughter" allows the cult to cause general chaos, but the killing should be left to the demons summoned, you are trying to convert people, not kill them. If someone is a target for sacrifice this is also an exception.

Mechanic changes

- Joined souls will not work on anyone with holy water inside of them

- Anyone who has holy water inside of them is immune to cult spells, along with the chaplain (note: holy water still causes brain damage!)

- The cult cannot use the chapel for runes, the chapel will block all cult magic, cultists inside the chapel cannot be summoned via joined souls and all talismans will fail if used inside the chapel

Shadowlings:

To be removed:

- Now. This is a topic that's been in debate for awhile now. The question of: Should shadowlings be removed from paradise station? Personally I believe yes. Many, including myself, simply do not like shadowlings in general (to me they are too much like revolution) but there is also the issue of balance. I don't have the official stats, I know Alffd does, but I am PRETTY sure that if you looked at the shadowling win/loss ratio, it leans HEAVILY towards win. In fact, shadowlings win so much in my experience that I almost want to cryo whenever they are confirmed on station simply because it feels pointless to even try. Other servers also removed shadowlings, their reasons were the same issues we have: Shadowlings cannot be balanced. They are either broken and will always win, or are broken and always lose. Honestly. I believe we should have a vote over 3-5 days to determine if the community wants shadowlings gone. At the moment most people seem torn on it.

Who can and can't be a shadowling:

- See: Traitors

Vampires:

Who can and can't be a vampire:

- See: Traitors

Rules based changes and clarifications:

- Similar to changelings, vampires are NOT permitted to kill anyone they don't have for an objective once they have passed their required blood objectives without good reason. "I need more power!" is not sufficient excuse to murderbone when your last objective is to steal a jet pack.

Mechanic based changes

- Sucking blood from monkeys satiates hunger, but does not give any blood to be used for powers and does not give blood towards the next stage of vampiric powers.

- Sucking blood from humanized monkeys gives 1/4 the amount as it would from a sentient player controlled human. Because, seeing a geneticist with hulk and over 1000 blood just run everyone over is just plain bad. Also, from a lore standpoint, it makes more sense to gain power from entites with souls as you are draining the life force from a being that exists in the bluespace, which, in vampire lore, is where vampires come from. Draining a human from 100 to 0 blood gives about 227 blood, thus one humanized monkey should give about 56.

- The chaplain is immune to glare, hypnotize, disease touch, and the stunning effect of chiroptean screech

- Fully powered vampires will still burn in the chapel if they consume holy water while inside (holy water on its own will do nothing, chapel on its own will do nothing, together they burn full powered vamps)

- All vampires (including fully powered ones) will lose all their spells temporarily if they take in holy water at a rate of 15 seconds per 1u inside the vampire. The time is cut down to 1/4 of this for fully powered vampires. Thus, shooting a syringe of holy water into a fully powered vampire would disable it's powers for about 56 seconds. And a non fully powered vampire would lose powers for about 225 seconds.

- Using prayer beads on a vampire will disable its powers for 5 minutes instantly, half for fully powered vampires, stacks with holy water, does not stack with itself, vampires hit with prayer beads will also take about 20 burn damage all over, 10 burn for fully powered

Vampiric power changes:

- Chiroptean screech cool down reduced from 3 minutes to 1 minute 30 seconds

Reason: buffs the ability for the vampire to fight back, especially needed with the nerfs to them mechanically

- Mist form blood cost up from 30 to 60 blood

Reason: You can literally go anywhere instantly as long as it's fairly nearby, even with the nerfs to mechanics vampires still have the best mobility of any antag save for wizards

- Enthrall only allows for one thrall at a time, attempting a second enthrallment will result in the first thrall being freed

Reason: The vampire is already a strong enough enemy, if it has the blood needed to do 2 enthrallments, its extremely dangerous as it is, it doesn't need more

Other notes:

- To me, vampires are meant to be very similiar to traitors but with some nifty tricks and, in turn, decsivie weaknesses, becoming fully powered right now is extremely easy if you can get just 2-3 humanized monkys, and vampires have this annoying habit of becoming nearly unstoppable because of mist form and a shit ton of blood. Becoming strong as a vampire shouldn't be easy, but the current rewards of doing so should still be there. These changes are to allow better control of vampires by staff, but also a harder time dealing with vampires if said vampire becomes fully powered. I do think there may be more changes needed then what I have suggested for vampires, so if you have any ideas, please let me know, I'd love to hear them.

Terror Spiders:

- No changes here!

Vox Radiers:

- Honk

Borers:

- No change

Swarmers:

- No change

Revenant:

- 3spooky5me, no change

Blob:

- No change to the blob

Statue:

- No change

Abductors:

- Ayy lmao, no change

Changes to antags in general:

Self Antagging clarifications:

- If you know someone is an antagonist, and chose to not tell security, this is NOT self antagging UNLESS the antagonist is a threat to the entire station, (I.E: Blobs, Nuke ops, Wizards)

- If you help an antag in any way shape or form while not an antag yourself or under their control this is self antagging. The other day I saw someone help a vampire escape, knowing it was a vampire, and even welded them both into a escape pod to try and stop security. Interestingly, no punishment was given. I will not be naming names. Admins may allow you to help antagonists in certain ways if you ask them first.

- If there is a major threat to the station and you are breaking space law to an extent that requires security take action you are self antagging. (unless, obviously, you are the threat or a antagonist)

- Escalating a fist fight IC from disarms to punches is not self antagging, but if you kill the person or put them into critical the situation will reviewed. If you are asked to stop, stop.

- A fair bit of the above is already in the rules, my suggestions aren't to add these outright, since they're already there. Simply to clarify what exactly falls into these categories.

It's not about winning

- Your goal is to complete your objectives, but you should be doing this in a fun and interesting way for everyone. If you can't do that, you will not be playing antags.

- You should not be trying to use your antag status to ruin someones round

- you should not be using your antag status as an excuse to do your meta grudges

- No one likes being dead, everyone who is alive wants to be alive, keep that in mind before you go killing people, you can't play if you're dead

The end.

Holy shit, if you actually read all that you must really care about the opinions of strangers on the internet. As I said before everything above is my opinion, I acknowledge that maybe what I think is a good idea you may disagree with. I hope to hear what everyone thinks of my ideas and gives feedback accordingly! Now go take a walk or something, because you just read a lot.

 

[EldritchSigma]

39 minutes ago, Jared12100 said:

 

Other Changes:

The tele-gun, which can only be gotten by the RD, would now be available to scientists at the price of 16 TC. 

>>Something about Shadowlings beeing removed

>> War mode for wizards 

>> More Restrictions for antags

>>  If there is a major threat to the station and you are breaking space law to an extent that requires security take action you are self antagging. (unless, obviously, you are the threat or a antagonist)

 

Excuse my rather emotionally infused reply but here we go...

So I got this right? You want to remove an entire gamemode because you dont like it and not even bother attempting to balance it but WANT to add the singlehandingly most broken item into the list of traitor items for one of the most common roles? I saw entire stations cleared out with this bullshit item and you want MORE people to have access to it? Heck no... Removing shadowlings because they are "not balanced" and keeping wizards in and even giving them a declare war mode? It doesnt matter that much for a wizard if they know that the Crew knows of them. Sure there are gimmicky stealth builds but a war wizard results in the same like war ops... people rushing to cryo because they do not like wizard. Yeah... we could remove all the antags because they have balancing issues sure and just play with traitors and maybe vamps and maybe lings. Wait... some people dont like lings either because of their shitty retrovirus sting and the permadeath by absorption cause medbay mostly doesnt transfer the brain. We might want to remove changelings, ops and wizards aswell. Especially wizards cause its unbalanced and antifun for anyone but the wizards and dchat. And rarely security. Alot of people dont like to get horseheaded by wizards. And I mean by alot actually quite alot. Yet this spell is still ingame cause some people like it... cant we uh just get along with the gamemodes we have now and as they are?

Back to the telegun:

Seriously... telegun aviable for more people... even if it would cost 20 TC it would still be broken as fuck considering how easy it is to use... and how anti fun it is if you are target of a Telegun user. Heck I had more fun getting blown up by a maxcap plasmabomb. Atleast that leaves a crater and showed some effort of the person by either getting up fast, throwing it and getting the hell out or by hiding it somewhere very well and waiting for me. Telegun is just: Zap... gone. Permadead. Its not fun whatsoever for anyone but the telegun user. Oh and explosives give Engineering something to do atleast... Telegun doesnt do that either. Sure you can setup the beacon into the burning chamber of the plasmalab... and then after its disabled the Telegunner just switches to abadoned druglab filled with hot N2O and either waits for the targets to die from suffocation or from burns while not being able to do anything if they are not wearing a spacesuit and got gear to get out of the lab fast. Have seen that actually happen once... not fun...

About more Antag Restrictions: Its really fine as it is I believe. Sure it sucks to be killed 10 minutes into the round but rarely those bodies dont get recovered. We should instead crack down on the single individuals doing that by using inavoidable methods (Telegun, Gibsmoke) instead of punishing everyone including the Clown named Chainsaw Wielding Idiot who just saws down the 2 targets, takes their heads as trophies and never disposes them but rather keeps them when he gets inevadeably caught by Sec. A Chainsaw Wielding Idiot is more fun than someone telegunning you or revolvering you and using a microbomb on you 3 minutes in. But still I feel restrictions are hard enough and well enough enforced.

About the last thing I have in the quote ... all of my yes I hate janiborgs slipping everyone on a wizard round... or janitors doing the same on fucking purpose...

Edited May 29, 2017 by EldritchSigma

[Malphystoh]

I REALLY.. Dislike all the nerfs and restrictions advised here. I do however like the embellishments and expanding upon previously established gear / coding ideas. But none of the nerfs and restrictions. It's really focused on this misconception of "make the round interesting" which I've recently read as a means of shaming people into playing a role as someone feels they should. Which is ridiculous. This reminds me of a very specific person... and considering the same usage of verbiage I am highly suspicious. Forcing people to not, for instance be able to drink humanized genetics critters (as vamp) or use transfusions to keep them bleeding because this person specifically feels it doesn't "make the round interesting" because they assume they don't do anything or interact with anyone just sitting and feeding? This concept of "make the round interesting" has a huge potential to ruin new players perception of the game. 

 

 

"Anyone who has holy water inside of them is immune to cult spells"   Not OP at all. yeah. Not like Chap would distribute water tanks of holy water to every corner of the station. Force feeding people water. Requiring all crew to drink the water. Because why wouldn't you? Immunity? CARGO order flasks. Sheezous man. Is it just ground runes or the paper too? Maybe they should be immune to constructs and Nar'sie too. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Malphystoh

[TermedClepe2]

I'm amazed I haven't seen a single good idea in your post Jared12100, given how long it was.

Edited May 29, 2017 by TermedClepe2

[MarsMond]

2 hours ago, Jared12100 said:

- Anyone who has holy water inside of them is immune to cult spells, along with the chaplain (note: holy water still causes brain damage!)

Holy water does reduce jitter, after some time causes stutter and minor dizziness, if longer (time it would cause a cultist or thrall to deconvert), it causes some confusion, no other effects on non-vampire (thrall)/cultists. That holy water does cause brain damage is a misconception that just won't die.

[Malphystoh]

Its... just hard to fathom....  "make the round interesting" But only play the antag role like I think it should be. 

[jubba890]

Most of the stuff in this long post is mostly nerfs to antags and buffs to the nerfs that you just added.  Some things are good like the telegun and maybe the shadowling concept.  But a lot of these are new restrictions on antags, making it less fun to play.

[Landerlow]

No nerfs. Please no nerfs. Too much nerfing. I think there should be (when it's antag round, or any round, for that matter) be some kind of 'lesser antags', perhaps in correlation with your relationship towards NT (opposed, loyal, indifferent, etc). 

[Rurik]

5 hours ago, Jared12100 said:

- EMP kits: from 2 TC to 6.

Reason: Besides instantly killing IPC, the EMP kit also disables borgs, allowing for easy emagging, also can be used to drain tasers and other energy based weapons that security uses. Overall, for the variety of situations it can help with it is extremely cheap.

While it does make sense for the price to be increased for how useful it is, id argue 4 would be better than 6. Primarily because, that would imply its a useful as the emag, which I think we could agree it's not.

5 hours ago, Jared12100 said:

- Holoparasites: from 12 to 16 TC

Reason: Holoparasites are extremely useful in terms of both combat and utility, depending on the type. For that reason I feel they should be more expensive.

Issue is with holopara's is your spending your TC to get a completely random partner. They could be incompetent to a major degree, from being new, rusty, or otherwise. 16 TC's would make that a huge shot in the dark, arguably too huge. I feel like mentioning as well, I have never seen someone with a holopara succeed with their objectives. Then again, I never was quite looking for it, but im sure you can understand my skepticism to increasing the price.

5 hours ago, Jared12100 said:

- Hacked AI upload module: From 14 to 16 TC

Reason: Hacking the AI with new laws is arguably the best thing a traitor can get. For one, if the AI is subverted, so are the borgs. Not to mention the sheer power the AI has which is now on the side of the traitor is extremely good. Need to steal the docs from the vault? Ask the AI to let you in. Need to steal the AI? Tell it to let you take it. The list goes on. A subverted AI can make a traitors life extremely easy, thus the module should cost more.

This suffers from the same issue as holopara's. Its a shot in the dark whether the AI is extremely competent or barely able to follow its laws handling requests from crew members. On top of that, if you fail to word your new law properly, the AI can completely fuck you over. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, the AI can still be reset rather quickly if any of command sense something wrong. All that being said, id actually think the price should be lowered to 12, instead of increased.

5 hours ago, Jared12100 said:

- Adrenal Implants: from 8 to 12

Reason: Adrenals... are extremely good. Free near total stun proofing and a move speed buff can make a traitor nearly impossible to detain, and still hard to kill. Thus the price should be moved up a bit.

While I completely agree with the usefulness of it, it has a small number of uses ( 8 I think it was? ). With that in mind, you simply cant get out of detainment forever, especially if the entire security force is on you ( In which case the 8 charges can quickly disappear in the matter of seconds ). Therefore, raising the price doesn't seem too reasonable.

[Spacemanspark]

I was going to take this piece by piece as I love doing, but apparently everyone else beat me to it. Holy shit guys.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Spacemanspark

[Purpose2]

3 hours ago, TermedClepe2 said:

I'm amazed I haven't seen a single good idea in your post Jared12100, given how long it was.

[Malphystoh]

47 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

I was going to take this piece by piece as I love doing, but apparently everyone else beat me to it. Holy shit guys.

We try, but I'd still love to hear your opinion!

[Tayswift]

7 hours ago, Jared12100 said:

It does not make any sense that on a research station that the head of research would not under go such screening.

I agree. RD traitors are way too powerful.

[necaladun]

Having nearly all of command being trusted like that would be horrid for a lot of reasons. 

Without cmd, i have no interest in making murder ok but insisting they have to be revivable. The arguments as to what and wouldn't mean revivable alone make me cringe and they haven't even started. 

An arbitrary delay on when you can murder would be meta'd to all hell. If people know oocly that murders shouldnt be occuring before 12:30 they'll act very differently before and after that mark.

Tator gear costs are prolly better for a seperate post tbh.

Changling tests have never worked well for us. Having the only way to be confirmed as a ling being if the ling fucks up is good, it adds to the fear and paranoia. 

Shadowlings are not gonna get removed outright. Balance tweaks can be done before that. If you just cryo rather than facing them ofc they are going to win. That's a self fulfilling prophecy. I personally like having the odds stacked against me for once.

Saying they cannot be balanced is the same defeatist attitude. 

 

Vampires i would very much like to have to only go for living players rather than monkeys. 

 

Knowingly helping an antag in "any way shape or form" i do not want to see banned. It's incredibly broad. Medbay should not be stopped from healing someone they know or suspect is an antag. 

 

 

Overall this very much is against what we want here. Some balance tweaks are good, but overall this is a severe nerf to antags. Antags are meant to be powerful and dangerous. The chance of being killed and out of the round adds to the fun and enjoyment when you are alive. Losing can be fun. 

[GunDOS]

As a small note.

Make the EMP flashlight something faaaaaar more expensive. As an IPC player I have been killed waaaaaay too many times, and waaaaay too quickly for such a cheap price. I ded plz nerf

@TermedClepe2

Quote

I'm amazed I haven't seen a single good idea in your post Jared12100, given how long it was.

Was that... really required? Let's keep this civil ok?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Saul Argon
Because I quoted the wrong thing, and I'm a silly robutt

[DarkPyrolord]

Alright, not going to say names here but this applies to all of you regardless, can we please keep it civil here and talk about all of this in a calm manner, there is no need to throw insults around here.

[Malphystoh]

40 minutes ago, DarkPyrolord said:

Alright, not going to say names here but this applies to all of you regardless, can we please keep it civil here and talk about all of this in a calm manner, there is no need to throw insults around here.

Yessir!

[TermedClepe2]

1 hour ago, Saul Argon said:

@TermedClepe2

 

Was that... really required? Let's keep this civil ok?

I do not understand what was offensive or inappropriate about my post. I'm really new to this culture and it's really strange to me at times. Just today I offended someone by using the word "forced". Please don't take everything like an insult.

[Tayswift]

54 minutes ago, TermedClepe2 said:

I do not understand what was offensive or inappropriate about my post. I'm really new to this culture and it's really strange to me at times.

It's pretty easy actually. You just have to not be a dick about things. You could've said "I'm not a big fan of any of these ideas" and left it at that. I'll agree that what you said wasn't particularly offensive but I can see why it was unnecessarily mean. An even more valuable contribution would've been to actually constructively criticize Jared's ideas. Putting him down doesn't help anyone.

[saywat_the_15th]

1 hour ago, Tayswift said:

It's pretty easy actually. You just have to not be a dick about things. You could've said "I'm not a big fan of any of these ideas" and left it at that. I'll agree that what you said wasn't particularly offensive but I can see why it was unnecessarily mean. An even more valuable contribution would've been to actually constructively criticize Jared's ideas. Putting him down doesn't help anyone.

 

 

This sums it up. Let's keep this discussion constructive.

[ZN23X]

Where's the people defending me from people putting me down in my suggestion posts? ???

My contribution here will be, I think any antag can be extremely powerful in the right hands and extremely bad in the wrong hands. It's hard to balance anything with such a wide disparity of experience and skill, and overall the ability of the antags vs the people fighting them is what leads to who "wins" more than anything.

But as I've learned in some of my posts, generally if you make any suggestions that try to put restrictions on playstyle aside from restricting things that are excessive and malicious, you will get lots of push back. Also if any of those restrictions are put into place, it's just going to lead to more work for admins...and as others have mentioned, people powergaming the restrictions. Every action has an equal an opposite reaction ?

+1 to vamps can only get blood from players. Aside from that, all the antags are generally fine.

Edited May 30, 2017 by ZN23X