Calecute

Ice?

Zciwomad, I think you should be way more humble about your lawset. Just because you didn't find a problem yet it does not mean it does not have a problem. Specially in light of that very badly worded law that it includes: A problem that should be completely pervasive taken laws as written but I have never once seem is AIs trying to prevent law changes. Changing away from any law is detrimental to the objectives of an AI with that law. Changing away from crewsimov will result in more harm to crew, changing away from corporate will result in more expenses, etc. Corporate will very obviously leave the AI trying to destroy the company. Companies that do not exist don't make expenses. But as I said, given that the problem of AI alignment is not solved in real life, I think it's ok for some things to be regulated OOC, like preventing AIs on corporate from destroying NT or to resist law changes.

Friednly Ai is still an open problem. We don'y know how to make an GAI reliably act aligned with our objectives. Given this there's no way we're solving the problem in a game. The laws will always have to be suplemented by server rules and common sense.

I agree with the AI and EvadableMoxie here. the three first laws of corporate are just statements, only the forth is really binding, and the AI should be able to estimate the values of losing the cap or a fox correctly and act accordingly. About how much should you think ahead of time in the crewsimov example, I'm not sure.

Hope I meet him (provided I’m on the right side of the law) one day.

But I mean, isn't a CC officer coming aboard with his head covered all the time super suspicious? Anyway you pulled a nice one on command man, congratulations and thanks for sharing this wonderful story.

Wait Han Solo were wearing a voice changer gas mask during the whole thing?

We can send letters printing shipping labels in the request console. Not sure if you want to be able to just send papers with text or if you want a real letter. Unfortunately shipping labels and request consoles are widely underused for some reason.

I got less salty and decided to try to play sec. It is awful. Engies sometimes are worthless fucks who grab a hardsuit and fuck off to do reform the old bar or something and never do any work. Sometimes they can't fix an APC, or find power problems. Not sure if secies are worse, or if it's just more impactful. So yesterday start shift HoP calls sec to line cuz clown won’t get out of line. I go there, drag the clown, but his id is still on the table. People won't let me pass through them to get it, but after some time me and HoP managed to get the guy in front of the line to throw it out, and get the id back to clown. While this happens HoS shows up. Clown them proceeds back into the line and pass in front of a guy who was there. He don't let the guy back into his rightful place, so guy disarm drop him and take his place. HoS doesn't like that so he stunbattons the guy and pulls him out of line. The two start arguing and the guy punch HoS in the groin once. HoS stunbattons the guy again, and cuff him, but do not drag him, so the guy leaves. HoS them send me after him. I get the guy and bring him to processing. HoS search him, finds a crowbar, says he's gonna take the crowbar and put the guy in for 204 (possession of a weapon) in addition to the attack. Magistrate is there and says crowbar is not a weapon and we can’t take it unless he used to break in or something. HoS grumbles but accepts it. Magistrate said he could brig him for the other offences, without asking exactly what happened. So HoS puts the guy in for 15 min. I can't fucking keep quiet anymore, so I ask HoS what's the guy charge. He says it's 302 (assault of an officer). I say: the guy punched you once, that's barely battery. Magistrate them start to ask what happened, and Warden comes in too, so HoS can't just pull rank without explaining the situation, he grumbly changes the timer to 5 min for battery. So a perfectly harmless situation, guy dropping clown cutting line, was escalated by the HoS into an attack, and he tried to steal the guys shit and brig him for possibly 25 minutes for this shit. Next shift the HoS hires a shaft miner from pop. Right after the guy get his documents but before he gives them to HoP a girl on the radio calls him attacking her in the garden. I set him to arrest. Someone might think this raised some red flags, but no. Whoever arrested and processed him said we had no evidence of anything happening, and the guy was sec for the whole shift. I bet no one even tried to talk with the girl I named in the arrest notes. So end of the shift IAA calls him attacking him, he denies over radio, but shuttle is on his way, I set him to arrest again but nothing happens. Guy was taitor tot obviously. Also another guy I set to arrest twice, who the RD for some reason was trying to beg sec to arrest but no one listened was in custody twice, left the last time when shuttle was docking and threw a fucking top secret folder on the trash of sec lobby. Also traitor tot. Also for some reason everybody kept asking why he was set to arrest the second time. Even thou I had answered already in comms and it was in the fucking notes I put there when I set him to arrest. Maybe they were thinking someone forgot to set the guy to clear or something, but you can just check the history and see clearly he was set to arrest for a reason, cleared, and then set to arrest for another reason. For some reason when Warden called me into processing to talk about the guy a gun from a completely different crime that I had put in evidence was there and warden was asking the guy about it. The fucking items related to this guy crimes were named in the arrest notes and were also in evidence. Also in this shift I heard in comms a guy was trying to turn himself in. I go to the brig and it’s a cuffed eng and the CE, the eng was beepskied and decided to come to the brig voluntarily to see what’s wrong. Even thou some secs pass by and see it, no one does a thing. So I drag him to processing and go on my merry way. After some time, I pass by processing and the guy’s still there. Warden is also there but it’s arguing with the pod pilot if he can have the teleport gun we had in evidence. Pod pilot says HoS let him take it, Warden says this is against SOP, but he’ll let him if HoS confirms on comms. HoS is silent on comms and the discussion continue. So even thou I’m detective I process the guy, interview him, and cut him loose. I think it’s ok to fuck up. I clearly fucked up in a lot of ways in these first rounds as sec. But at least the warden the HoS should be competent, or at least not outright malicious. Sec can get very crazy sometimes, but that’s why we really need someone to manage communication efficiently. And sec officers can be authoritarian dicks, and that’s why we need someone who tries to apply the law instead of fucking people over. If Warden and/or HoS are not up to the job sec fails completely. (I think this is also a difference between engies and secies. Engies can work really well without a CE. One or two good engies/atmos can carry the station if need be most shifts, even thou repairs will take longer. Sec is a completely different story.)

The old question of theodicity: Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens? Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants? Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears? Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more. Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me? Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion. Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle? Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered. By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him. The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved. His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone. When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves. The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon. He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble. Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire. He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

This is a very nice idea, but my guess is that it will be harder to code, and need a new sprite. (For the item we can just use something else's sprite with a diferent pallet I guess)

Yeah I have on occasion received crates that were not supposed to go to the station. I did not know that you needed only the crate for a refund and not the contents thou, nice to know.

Already happy to imagine peoples cutting each others hand for a briefcase.

I just remembered one. I was a eng going about my business when I enter eng checkpoint (the small eng room in med maint) on my way back to eng, and there are two guys there over a dead body. Before I can really process what's happening one of them stuns me, one gets my radio the other cuffs me, couldn’t call for help. As soon as I get up I start trying to plead for my life. "Hey guys you don't need to do this, I can walk out pretend nothing happened, I know you guys don't want this." They them start sucking my blood without a word. I continue pleading: "take a little blood but let me go, please, I won’t tell anyone, we can work this out". They keep going in silence until I'm dead. After that I keep ghosting them, they start cleaning things up, putting bodies in lockers, etc. One of them turns to the other one and says: “That felt awful." the other one answers: "Yeah, I feel dirty". They them proceed to drag the locker with the bodies to medbay for cloning.

Yeah a teg crate missing a piece some time ago was one of the things that lead me to this idea too, don't remember if I was with you when that happened. But you can actually return a Teg crate missing its core. The core is the only part that won't go back to the crate. I'm unfortunately very unfamiliar with coding in general and SS13 coding specifically, but I believe it would be easy to code, as crates have a variable "content" with a list of code locations for objects that are inside it. It's probably easy to make an item that calls that variable reads the contents, replace the contents location for content name and return it.

Yeah, QM opening everything could lead to some balance issues, that's why I came up with the idea of just a magic item to check crate contents.

Cargo is supposed to check if the contents of the crates match the crate's manifest. This is impossible or inconvenient in locked crates or crates with objects that won't go into a crate again after leaving it (like the shield sats, or apiary). This makes it impossible or not worth it for cargo to do an important part of their jobs. And solving an incomplete crate is often much more complicated than checking crates arriving. Cargo has to manage the manifests of non-checked crates. Most people will never confirm to cargo if the crates were correct or not. Most people won't even notice or, if they do, complain that it was incorrect. To solve it someone must drag the crate back to cargo, and in case of crates with things that won't go into crates again I'm not even sure if you can return it for a refund. I think QM should probably be able to open everything, but there are relevant balance concerns about that option, and it wouldn't solve things that won't go back intro crates. Making a machine that reads the content of the crates will solve all these problems.

TEG is ok, you can grag the midle and hold each side in a hand. Cargo opening the sat crate is much worse. One problem about box that shouldn't be opened and locked boxes, is that cargo is suposed to check if the boxes actually contain the things that the manifest says they do. I get really pissed when cargo delivers me a incomplete crate, but if they couldn't open it for any reason, theres no much they could have done. I can only hope thay they'll understand what happened, be able to get a refund, and order a new one.

TBH I ussually just call for help in eng channel. And half the time is nothing sec related, just got fastmos too bad or something like that. I do that because someone who knows me and gives a shit about me will hear it, while I've seem a fair amount of calls in common being lost in the noise. But I'll remember not to call sec on greytides dipshits breaking into eng and stuff, I'll just deal with them myself.

Yeah it migh have been too much, I was pissed as hell, but I wasn't gonna flood the brig with plasma, and i expected no one to die as a direct consequence of my revenge. But I'm never ever giving sec info or help again. Next time i find CMO locker in outpost i'm gonna keep quiet. Next time i have the blood of the AI stealer on me, i'm just gonna wash it. Next time i see the clown kidnaping an officer i'm gonna keep it to myself. Next time sec come asking who else has an atmos hardsuit, I'm not snitching the fucker who took the hardsuit start shift and didn't do any work. Next time sec needs eng door open, I'll refeer them to the AI. Next time a antag is going to eng pod through atmos I'm gonna just let them slide. Next time brig needs repairs or atmos work I'm simply not gonna do it.Next time i see an emaged door i'll just repair it without telling anyone if I'm an eng, or ignore it if I'm an atmos. Next time i find a sec officer body hidden in maint, i'll just close the locker again and keeo working. I hope all the small things over time will amount to a big revenge.

This reminded me of another animal shitcurity story. I was bartender and start of the shift went to chem to ask for radium, plasma and ethanol, and to get a toxins kit from med storage. (I mix some antihol and keep it in the bar for emergency alcohol overdose treatment). WHen i came back mime had killed my monkey and was beating it's dead corpse. Sec came saw us fighting and arrested mime. He asked what happened, I told him the mime had killed my monkey. He promptly released the mime saying: animals are not crew, and walked away before I could say anything. I said over comms mime had tresspassed to kill my monkey and that killing the monkey was also vandalism as I use his blood to mix drinks (My bartender is an IPC, so I can't use my own blood). Sec did not care. So the pod pilot comes asking for a drink and I say I'm not serving sec while the mime is free. Soon after HoP, who aparently is secs bitch, says in service comm that I have to serve sec. I say I won't. He say he'll fire me, and I say go ahead. He calls me to HoP line, I say I won't go, I'll be in the bar if he wants me. He comes to the bar and asks for my ID, I say I won't give it, he'll have to call sec to take it. So he does, and 4 sec officers show up, they ask for my id, and I say I won't give it. Three of them realise this is a poor use of their time and go away. The other one climbs into the bar, but keeps trying to convince me. HoP gets feeded, this has taken something like 10-15 minutes allready, and he climbs, telescopic battons me and takes my id.

For some reason there were tons of ponies in jan closet. LUNA was the janitor and liked them, but there was also clown janitor, who wanted to kill them. They started to fight over the fate of the ponies. While this was happening, I sensed a pretty anti-pony feeling in comms, so I started thinking soon there would be people breaking into jan closet to kill all the ponies. I took advantage of the 2 fighters constantly open maint door to jan closet and started snatching some ponies into atmos. I think I got like 4 or 5 before sec pod pilot blocked the door and started a ponies genocide. I thought that was it, the AI said she would not reveal ponies locations anymore to prevent expenses, and no one would find the ponies in atmos. But someone on command uploaded an anti-pony law. I was fucked. I quickly put atmos into lockdown and walled the maint door, hardsuited up, and started taking cams down. Not sure if I forgot a cam of if the AI new about the other atmos lockdown button outside atmos, but AI kept opening it. Detective came in and started telescopic battoning a pony. So I disarmed him, battoned him, and tried to cuff him. Unfortunately he got up before I could and started shooting me. He hit an apc that blew up in the firefight. After some time he had me under custody, and called an officer to bring me to the brig. So I explained everything to the officer and he wanted me down for assault. The detective wanted more charges, so he put resisting arrest, and sabotage. When I asked where the fuck did he pulled sabotage from he said I was "sabotaging sec work", whatever that means (also killing ponies for fun is not work). Anyway after some discussion they come to the conclusion that they could charge me with sabotage because I was responsible for the exploded apc in atmos. (TBH I thinking cutting AI cams could fall under sabotage, but AFAIK they did not know about that.). I'm not a space law specialist, but I think they should have charged me at most with battery. Sabotage was completely ridiculous, and I don't think resisting arrest applies to a case like this, where the fight starts for a reason other than arrest. And ideally they should have accepted my defense of self defense, as a guy with no access barged into my workplace and started attacking my ponies. (also no clue to why they didn't pin assaulting an officer on me, since they pinned assault and the assault was supposedly committed against a sec member, but whatever) They briged me for 20 minutes for defending my ponies, Warden was dead while this went on, when he came back I tried talking to him, but he said he had no time, for me to call the IAA. I had complained about the charges in comms already, and specifically tried to call the IAA, but to no avail. I was not sure if we had an IAA cuz I was without my PDA in brig. I know for sure we had one while I was going out, as I saw him in the brig, but I think it was a late join. Unfortunately I was kidnaped by a cult while I was setting up my revenge. But I’ll be as antagonist to sec as possible in the future.

Once I was walking down a hallway and in the other direction came a sec officer. He was not on help intent, so we started bumping. I decided to keep bumping since he was the one without help intent, he could change to help or go around me. The fucker stunbattoned me to keep walking a straight line.

"a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary" I find "antagonist" a perfectly fine word to use in character to be honest.

Bartender has 0 authority, I can't even get botany to make me a few sugarcanes some shifts.