davidchan

Alright, finally have a keyboard so lets hit the problems areas as people see them so far. Job slots: At a minimum I'd like to see 2 but for a maximum I'm not sure I care if its hard or soft capped at 4 or even 6. The more convicts the station has the more they can use them as guinea pigs or to do hard labor others can't do, and I know several security mains that would basically have their convicts running a fight club in perma during slow or extended RP rounds. Late Joins: It's been repeatedly suggested to have a Cryosleeper in Perma to begin with, though I haven't glanced into perma in a while to know if such a thing ever got added or if it would be difficult to do. So long as Security Channel gets a late join message there is little reason Security has to get worked up about a late join unless perma is breached, which frankly this just gives them a reason to get it fixed incase carp or something does smash it up. Self-Antagging: As already stated, they wouldn't not be given a license to grief and under normal circumstances attacking Crew or Security would only be when such an action could result in their freedom. A Convict ditching his Janitorial detail to run into maint would only be allowed to combat people in his way or actively attempting to detain him. (I.E. pushing down the maint assistant to run past them is fine, beating them repeatedly with a toolbox is not. Disarming and stealing an ID or equipment is acceptable, killing someone solely for the purpose of looting them is not.) And as previously stated this works against the Convict more than for them, as they have no default equipment, PDA or tools (and they would generally be restricted form having such things without permission anyways). If a passing assistant wanted to assault a Convict on a detail, it would be a simple vandalism charge and not assault. If a convict is being violent or uncooperative then they'd be opening themself up for harsher treatment from security or even Forced Cyborgification if they took it too far. Races: While not brought up much, I'd say to start that Karma races should be black listed at least until a perma remap could account for round start Vox and Plasmamen who could just break a window and float on to the asteroid or something. Backgrounds: It's important to note that Convicts are Convicted of a crime but that doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty. While initially I was hoping to leave it free form enough that players would be able to choose which crime and background they'd be accused of, it seems we'll probably need something a bit more solid. An RNG system would need to be set up to randomly assign crimes to a convict (similar to the old XenoArch mad libs on items) that would vary from Grand Sabotage, Manslaughter, Mutiny, Murder, Attempted Murder or Grand Theft. Some of these crimes could be considered accidental or unintentional, encouraging a player to be more nonviolent or repentant of their crime, while others would be more malicious and encourage a more resistive convict who would want to escape. Others, such as captured Agents, would potentially given a background with them aware that since they failed their mission they are likely marked for kill by their former Syndicate allies, or perhaps hoping that if they escape with something valuable to NT they might be able to regain their trust from their former employer. Alternatively, an Antagonist Convict might be a deep cover Agent assigned to kill or clean up any captured agents on the station (think Breaking Bad). And of course, there could be falsely accused, framed or otherwise innocent Convicts who could attempt to plea with the local magistrate, lawyer or security personnel to review their file, seek out inconsistencies and compile the data into a Fax in hopes of CC determining they were wrongfully imprisoned and could be released. Human Testing Initiative: A random event for cargo could be to receive a crate or two of experimental gear: weapons, tools, virus samples, medicines or other equipment, and given a directive to test upon a Human(oid) or other sentient organic under certain conditions and gather data to send back as test results to get rewards of points or other unique gear. Some of these tests would be insanely lethal, others might trigger bad events (like a SE turning the convict into a Blob) where as others till might demand testing a new kind of surgical tool on a specific type of internal injuries.

I'm on mobile right now so can't give a proper response. Long story short I was in the process of doin a reformat and supplement write up to flesh out the role more but RL concerns on top of lack of coder/dev response or interest put this on the back burner. The 'antag status' detected earlier was supposed to be a shoe in for the potential of failed or captured antag agents with goals or objectives to survive and escape, while regular convicts may not have had violence convictions and this would be more inclined to just do what it takes to survive a round or potential assassinations. Said leeway cuts both ways and puts convicts at a disadvantage given they get no access, no tools and extremely limited mobility and freedom. If a convict is caught trying to escape security would be reasonably allowed to give them a minor beating even in non violent breakouts. Convicts without proper antag objectives wouldn't be allowed to kill as regular crew save for last resort self defense where all other attempts to disuade conflict still result in someone violently pursueing them with a lethal intent and weapon.

Also works for Borgs and hilarious way to kill a CE is ripping apart a SMES or APC and leaving the sabatoged cells nearby. booby trapped lights can cause some hilarity as ghost haunting can trigger the boom, though most lights aren't near switches so it's difficult to lure a target that way. The more plasma the bigger the boom. clown shoes can be washed with crayons to make them look normal, but they still squeak. Steal someone's shoes and leave the duds around for them to grab instead.

Money is an infinite and useless resource, being able to convert it to supply points will be abused severely. specifically slot machines have an absurd pay out rate and 15 minute of clicking can usually net you 50k if not much more of you hit a jackpot. add in the HoP can just drain department accounts round start and nobody would notice your looking at a free 300+ points. cargo can already export goods and crates for points, they don't particularly need another source of effort free income

Under my proposed intent yes, though for some it would be extra hard mode since going loud would almost immediately make you eligible for KoS There... is a camera console in Warden office? Or are you suggesting a special camera for Brig/Perma only? I would certainly endorse Power Packs or what ever item we elect to use for tracking Convicts to have a camera on it (leading to the hilarity of a Warden/Sec officer checking the camera to see the pack laying abandoned in maint somewhere or even a 'FUCK NT' graffiti written next to it) Perma would perhaps have to be expanded somewhat to accommodate more regular residents, though luckily we have vacant space north and west of the current layout. Ideally I'd like to see up to 6 convicts per round, with more slots being opened in high pop. The more convicts in a round, the more chaos a G.R.E.Y.T.I.D.E. virus produces when they decide to risk bolting.

I'd agree that it might need to be implemented in steps or pieces, but for the most part this is a baseline goal for the end product, I wouldn't expect 100% of it to be implemented but at least given forth as details for the intent of the role. As for the mini-antag status, I feel it works against them more than it works for them as members of security get more say in what they can do than the convict themself. As for Convict Numbers vs Security, that is debatable in the same way Civilians vs Security numbers go. The role gives Security something to do when most crew are not causing trouble (hopefully cutting down on Security cracking down hard on minor violations if they have designated targets) but a remodel of security to contain more convicts and a Protective Custody wing could also come with more Job Slots for Security officers and potentially a karma role for Warden/Staff to specifically watch over the Perma inmates or a Brig Psychiatrist. Overall I do really like the idea of NT being Morally Bankrupt and happily using long term prisoners, Enemies of the Corporation and other political dissidents for slave labor and live human test subjects while giving the crew a basis of how things could be worse instead of just assuming that Civilian is the bottom of the totem pole.

This is still a Work In Progress and any and all Feedback to make this viable in game is welcome. To break away from the idea that Karma roles are intended to be better roles than their base department, I submit the idea for Convicts as a job role, round start Permabrig prisoners used by Security and the station as a whole for manual labor. There is a number of possible applications, but lets start with the basics. The Primary function of this Role is to give Security personal a form of interaction within their department during low population rounds as well as giving them something to barter with other departments should relations become tense. (Go go Nations mode slaves) Karma Cost: 5. This job offers no special access and in lore the station is allotted a higher budget to hold and care for them.This is a job for masochists and people who want a new, if challenging, RP and playstyle. Spawn Area: Convicts have previously been convicted of a Major Crime prior to round start and their sentence has already been handed down by CentComm or a previous shift. Because of this, they spawn in the PermaBrig (or a Protective Custody wing if such a thing were to be added.) They are not eligible for Execution at round start. They can volunteer for Cyborgification how ever. Late Join Convicts would spawn at a sleeper located in the permabrig. Access: Convicts have NO default access, starting with Prisoner IDs and tracking beacons maxed by default in their orange jumpsuits. They do not receive a backpack or PDA, and security is allowed to revoke their headset privileges if they are abusing them. Job Responsibilities: In theory, none. By default, Convicts exist to serve out their sentence and CC sends a regular allowance to the Security Department for every Convict the station is safely housing. In low activity rounds CC might want reports on their status or could send over equipment and experiments to utilize on Convict. Security may also use Convicts for manual labor as they see fit, be it Gulag mining or allowing Science to requisition a Convict for human testing of their various experiments. SOP of course would require an active clone scan to be on file during any activity that might endanger the Convict's life, as any unlawful reduction to a Convicts sentence would come back down on the Warden and/or Head of Security (and Captain as well.) Janitorial, Kitchen, Hydroponics, and Cargo work would also be acceptable under SOP with proper supervision. Convicts who are daring may attempt to escape, and their Rules of Engagement would be somewhat loosened compared to otherwise loyal crew. They are not antags and should not act like them, though they would be allowed to attack Security and Crew alike (or threaten such violence) if it could reasonably be asserted to lead to their escape (such as holding a Doctor prisoner) If possible, Convicts would be weighted higher for Kill Objectives from Syndicate Agents, as they themselves most likely failed their previous assignment and the Syndicate doesn't need any loose ends (thus, forcing Convicts to weigh the balance of cooperating with security or escaping and risking an assassination themselves.) Other Antagonists might be tasked with ensuring the escape of a Convict, or even a hard mode objective of requiring a Hijack with the convict(s) in custody for 'DeBriefing' by Syndicate Interrogations. Labor Detail: When a Convict is assigned to work a job on the Cyberaid, voluntarily or otherwise, it is referred to as a Labor Detail. Security MUST ensure the Convict is wearing their Orange jumpsuit to differentiate them from regular Crew, their sensors maxed out, and Power Pack equipped to their back for tracking and remote disciplinary processing. Unruly or Uncooperative convicts should not be assigned Details without good reason, and any convict failing to complete their detail should be apprehended and disciplined by Security personnel.(Please note these are SOP/IC guidelines and not mandated rules OOC) Head of Personnel may customize an ID for Convicts on long term details, otherwise a standard Guest Pass may be issued if an escort is unable to supervise the convict during their detail. Convicts may work any of the following Jobs if requested by appropriate head of staff: Mining (Convicts may work in the Gulag or Mining Asteroid Abroad. They are NOT allowed use of a Kinetic Accelerator or Kinetic Crusher without specific permission from Head of Security. All mining points gathered by Convict are to be forfeited to Quartermaster.) Botany (Convicts may grow edible plants and medicinal herbs in Hydroponics or Permabrig. Convicts are NOT allowed use of a Hatchet without direct supervision. Convicts are not allowed to ingest or partake in use of any hallucinogenic compounds found in various medicinal strains of plants. All produce must be forfeited to Supervisor or Botanists.) Kitchen (Convicts may work in the Kitchen preparing food for crew. Use of a knife is permitted only under Supervision and may not be stored on the person of the Convict or taken outside of the bounds of the kitchen. At request of Crew, Convicts may ordered to deliver food to workstation and offices.) Custodial (Convicts may be assigned to work in various departments of the station collecting trash, cleaning up messes and ensuring a Hygienic work environment. Convicts should only be assigned one Department or work area at a time to clean, and should be thoroughly searched by Security before returning to the brig or assigned another detail. Cargo (Convicts may work in Cargo bay transporting and recovering crates only. Convicts are not allowed to approve or deny Supply orders and must be supervised while working with unlocked crates containing goods.) Test Subject (Convicts may be requested for use as Test Subjects for Genetics, Virology, Robotics or Research Lab. A Clone Back up should be acquired before partaking in such experimentation. Security may force uncooperative Convicts to be test subjects, but should only select cooperative ones who volunteer. Any enhancements gained through such experimentation should be removed prior to end of testing unless authorized by Head of Security.) Construction (Convicts may be requested by Engineering department to aid in construction, remodeling or repair details as appropriate. Convicts should not be given tools without supervision, but should be given EVA Softsuits as needed. Primary tasks would include carrying extra construction material and preparing groundwork for Engineers such as placing lattice or plating. Ensure all convicts are searched prior to end of detail to prevent smuggling of tools or equipment.) Other (Convicts may be requested by general crew for mundane tasks and labors as needed and approved by Security. Convicts should not be assigned as personal servants or aides, but can otherwise be utilized for odd jobs around the station where manpower is low. Convicts should not be sent through the Gateway or given Exile implants without CC approval, nor should they be tasked with exploring space around the station.) Other Info: Convict's role on the station is designed to add a dynamic of Non-Crew to the station, they have little to no rights save for what Space Law provides them, and the individual crew members are free to decide how to treat them or feel about their presence on the station. Convicts are considered Station Property, similiar to pets and Borgs, and should be treated as such if crew attacks them or otherwise interferes with their details. (Murder of a Convict still counts as Sabotage, breaching the brig to kill multiple Convicts counts as Grand Sabotage.) Convicts would still be eligible for appropriate Antagonist roles (Such as Vampire or Changeling) but have lower roll rates on Syndicate Agents or Cultists (as they spawn with no inventory or bag to hide their gear.) Optional Additions: These are ideas that could be implemented alongside or after Convicts to add flavor or use to the role.Security Points: Side-Antag: Pirates/ Prison Break: If three or more Convicts are active and alive on the station, a group of Pirates, Criminal Gangs or other nefarious may spawn with the intent of Liberating the Convicts and getting them off the station. This event would only fire 60 minutes into a round, and less likely to fire if an Syndicate Agents present among the crew had free, capture or kill objectives.

Silver coins are used to buy special items from vendors. I seriously doubt they'd ever be given to players for free round start.

Just make the Captain's Spare immune to it. Plasma infused gold that jams the blades. I'd like this idea more if there was a counter-part to print fresh IDs so those boxes of blanks could be removed.

Literally the spot below the med desk. Its out of all traffic areas and doesn't block the chemistry desk. Its meant for people without serious injuries to await treatment without risk blocking the doors if someone is being dragged in while in crit. Part of Genetics job is to routinely check cloning for fresh clones, they have a window there for a reason.

Did you know - Head of Staff can make announcements from the Request Console in their office. Did you know - Medbay has a front desk so that a doctor or assistant can man it to notify doctors of inbound patients, as well as an area off to the side for those without potentially fatal wounds to await treatment. Did you know - The clown is meant to tell jokes and entertain the crew, while the mime is meant to emote out actions and avoid all physical contact in the process. Did you know - Assistants are capable of doing odd jobs to help departments function and coordinate - Not steal everything not bolted down. Did you know - The Body Scanner tells the doctor/user all the internal damages of a patient and should probably be used on every patient who is defibbed or comes out of a cryotube. Did you know - Genetics is actually capable of monitoring the cloner and helping fresh clones fix their brain damage, SE changes and open the door to let them out. Did you know - Engineering has a series of consoles in their departments that give them information from how much power is in the powergrid, which APCs aren't charging and notify them of any atmospheric conditions or that might require their attention! Did you know - Security HUD and Security Record console can modify a specific crewman's records to denote any crimes they've committed or pertinent details. Detaining someone against their will without charging them of a crime is Kidnapping, aka Illegal Detainment! Did you know - Science department can actually build useful mechs and distribute equipment to help the crew, instead of the usual combat mechs! Who knew?! Did you know - Botanist has a wide variety of food they can grow, not just nettles and ambrosia. IIRC passive gates don't require or use power and only push gas if there is more pressure on the intake than outtake. Putting a gas pump between two pipes with equal pressure below the pumps threshold will pull from the intake, where as a passive will stop pulling gas once the two pipes are equalized even if the gate is set to higher. Basically a gate is trying to maintain a specific pressure on the intake while a pump is trying to maintain the pressure on the output.

Well option B) would be to instigate a mini-nations mode that forces the station into factions fighting for supremacy while the wiznerd does their thing or acts as a wild card offering to empower specific factions.

Add an illusion effect to summon guns to make everyone hallucinate for a while viewing everyone as a wizard, monster or some other entity they can never be sure is friend or foe.

Morph is very annoying to fight given how much health they have, how much damage they deal, and general ease they have of acquiring more mass without any visual indication of their strength. This also assumes they don't spend much of their round just running away from any conflict that isn't 1v1 where they know they can win. Blob is much better round type imo as the entire crew is given a goal to work against, the blob is largely stationary so much of the 'action' isn't people welding vents, but rather gathering tools to fight back and the actual attempts to stifle the blob's growth. You slow a morph by... throwing everything in a locker and hiding it away from a vent easy access area for the morph. The only 'fun' morph rounds I've seen are those in which much of the crew is generally unaware of the morph's existence as they vent crawl disguised as a bot, drone or monkey that might be a typical sight in the area, eat everything when nobody is really around to look, and move onto the next empty area. Such engagement. Much fun. I don't see the point in pushing combat focused antags to be mid-round RP events when we actually have RP focused roles that could be made into midround events such as the Merchant or Vox Traiders, and we could easily make things like Refugees, CentCom Civies (Centcom is not solely staffed by 1 admiral or comm officer, by definition there HAS to be some form of support crew) or even the suggest Wizard Apprentices

I do like the idea of Wiz ops (why did Vox Traiders get fully removed again?) As for Ragin Mages as a full game mode, I'd really only back it if there was some level of RNG to what spells you have or can choose from, so everyone doesn't just take the same 5 or 6 spells.

Borg Saddle. When applied to a borg, lets you ride them. ONWARD VALIANT ST---oh its Spark 5.5... we broke.

Glow sticks Fireworks. Bouncy ball. Vox assorted headgear. (Can it fit on your head? Reward.) Fully stock the beach getaway so the chef can actually have a BBQ. Also ensure there is an industrial outdoor grill and players can get 'You smell the [meat/food/what ever] grilling!' if they are within 4 or 5 tiles of an active grill. A toy horse Plastic Rocket Fist. With grapnel upgrade that can be used to snatch and real in items from a distance. The NT Foamsoft nerf guns. Or what ever they are called. A Xeno exosuit that hisses and spreads oil over the floor as resin. A magic lamp that just blows raspberries at you and huffs insults when rubbed (used) VR Pods for mini-thunda dome and FPS coop shooters. (VR Deffsquids vs Xeno hive anyone?) Rock-it launchers that can actually launch any pocket sized item. RC Copters and drones. Perhaps even a race track for them. Also, Battlebots. 'I survived the gateway and all I got was this lousy jumpsuit' apparel. Fat stacks of mining loot. Ore/Sheets of material and other fun loot. Scooters, bicycles, unicycle (for the clown) and other vehicles. Also the old school cargo tram. A massive pile of (worthless) bitcoins. And an unmarked hard drive with hundreds of them. Antag tokens. (The coin, not the actual status)

Wouldn't the HoP be the Queen, HoS be the Rook, RD and CMO be the Bishops? Not enough chess pieces, we must make more.

The go to tactic is throw your recently deceased crewmate at them, though the advanced strategy is to meth up a clown and/or install a no drop so they can kip up and begin the beating.

I've literally taken down desword users with nothing but a baton and bolas. If you can't manage it >git gud Sec has a massive arsenal to deal with them. If they have a bowman and sechud, you can still pepper spray them. If they are wearing a mask, you have bolas. The clown and janitor have slip items you can easily commandeer, not to mention BEAR TRAPS. If there is a miner get their KA, it ignores the block rate and just aim for a hand till it breaks while kiting. Non-sec can throw crap, use pneumatic cannons, disarm spam in groups to keep flanking, or just literally throw someone at the desworder to garuntee knock them down and allow you to run up and snag the sword or just pummel the tator tot into oblivion. What the hell is with the nerf frenzy on paradise trying to hugbox items that have literally been in the game for years.

>Security main can't baton a melee oriented item.

They do require human intervention. An emag doesn't find and slap the drone by its lonesome or automatically. It's far easier to create and convert a golem than it is to track down a drone to emag it.

i ded plz nerf Is a very good summarization of the process where people are making changes to the overall balance of the game without first considering all the balance that is in place. You don't nerf d-esword because it can deflect most projectiles fired at it, because members of security are upset their tasers aren't working. You point out that there was still plenty of options that COULD have worked if the salty player didn't just want to hit every problem on the head with their preferred tool and call it a day. Drones have a number of weaknesses from their pitiful low health, blatant EMP/Flashbang rendering them immobile for a long period of time to their reliance on the piping network to get around. Tay's first suggestion was to remove vent crawling all together. Then they wanted to make them pAI with door access. Then we got the crap fest that is in the current build. I was the one who suggested the timer On the understanding that the other nerfs would be removed from the PR. Spoiler, they weren't. Which leads us here today, where people who supported the nerfs are still dancing around the question as to why they were necessary to begin with. If you're going to argue 'you just don't like the PR so you're argument is invalid' you could at least come up with some half ass excuse to why any of this was necessary from the get go.

Golems are a literally infinitely respawnable role, can be converted by cult and slings. I've seen far more golems used in this manner then I've ever seen emagged drones. And unlike the drone, the golem can't even try to evade the conversion if they aren't antag fishing. Drones on the other hand are rather obvious if they are antag fishing since the tator has to be at the fabber or the drone must track down someone they know to have an emag. I'm just constantly astonished people act like hack drones are a round ending event, I rarely see them, in 5 years of playing this game across multiple servers I can count maybe 20 instances of emagged drones and at least one group of those was a metacomm group that got banned years ago. I have to disagree strongly with this assertion. Tay's intention was to nerf hacked drones into the ground not because they upset the balance, but a because a few rare cases in which a hacked drone was able to damage the station in a manner nearly any emagged borg could. There is no sensible reason to throw multiple game changing nerfs onto a role, ignore almost all criticism in the PR, promise that only 1 or 2 of them is going to take affect and then just apply all of them. This is literally the same behavior that has seen tg borgs get nerfed into obsucrity. Not because they had some aspect of the role that was over powered, but because a few select players are so good at the role or game in general that they can reliable dunk less robust regulars with their knowledge of how the game works. Despite said roles having numerous hamstrings, limitations and hard-coded weaknesses that their opponents never bothered to get ahold because we can't have antags having unique flavors that bring different elements to the game ensuring that no single strategy, weapon or item is the end all be all for any valid hunting crew. In the end, Tay gave no reason for the nerf to begin with, saying 'they are too powerful and annoying' without citing any examples. Changelings and Vampires are too powerful and annoying to deal with, I don't see their powers nerfed into obscurity, do you? TL;DR the entire PR was salt i ded nerf plz without any consideration for what lead to it.

Basically anyone running around not on help intent. I got so sick of it yesterday as HoP running errands for my dept I just started batonning people. Yes, I'm hauling a bee crate, no if you fucking try and open it I'm going to beat you. Anyone who works medchem and blows the dispenser. In nearly 5 years of playing this game, I've never done. Why is it so common? If you don't know how to chem. Ask. There is a literal wiki that tells you everything you need to know. If you want to make bombs, Science has their own deluxe chem lab to be an antag workshop. Metacliques. For a while it seemed they were dying out and people were starting to play as a community. Then just the other day I have the vulp mafia trying to break into my office because I wouldn't give McFluffy access to engineering when it was pretty damn clear she wasn't going to help the CE fix the breaches and power net. Basically any engineer and CE who doesn't at least attempt the station goal or make repairs. Yes, your autism fort looks pretty with the floor tiles. Don't mind the screams over the radio, that's just everyone else yelling that the main hallway has been breached and unbreathable for the last hour while you stole all the metal. Gateway missions. Specifically Wild West but in general. Loot pinatas designed around exploits in the code, it'd be one thing if these were VR missions and thus players could make multiple attempts without getting game breaking gear, but it's another when 30 minutes into the round some greyshit can have an L6 and more C20s than they know what to do with. Medical personnel who don't do Body Scan printouts. These things can be a life saver, as well some level of proof that malpractice bay isn't in full effect when they can show mr corpse didn't have those injuries before walking out of medical. More IAAs need to look into how many people medical is actually saving and how many bodies are piling up. When you try to play Warden and been goodsec, but all your sec officers are just buckle cuffing crew to chairs without even saying a word or putting a blip in their crew records, then freaking out 20 minutes later after you release them because so and so was totally an antag or assaulted someone. HoS's who assume anything they have access to is theirs by right, from the Warden's gloves, the medkits in storage, gloves in engineering and all the ammo cargo's lathe can print. Somewhat less so but equally infuriating when Blueshit walks into medical and empties all the synthflesh from the fridge to use on light bulb burns. Sec mains who try to use SoP and Space law to get you brigged, demoted or executed for not doing what they want, but suddenly become blind and deaf when they are the ones breaking SoP/Space Law. Bonus points for McRedshit last week who was using an emag he confiscated to access RnD.