TullyBBurnalot
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Posts posted by TullyBBurnalot
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Ripped from SOP:
QuoteThe Geneticist is not permitted to ignore Cloning, and must provide Clean SE Injectors when required, as well as humanized animals if required for Surgery. In addition, the Geneticist must, together with Chemists and Medical Doctors, make sure that Cloning is stocked with Biomass
The Geneticists are not required by SOP to do the cloning themselves, only provide Monkeys for Biomass and brain transplants, and clean SEs if required (which is a moot point with Mutadone).
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OP modified with identified issues.
I should also point out: please do not refer to the following or not of SOP. That is not the purpose of this thread.
Whether or not SOP is followed or enforced is not the scope of this update, this is merely to find shortcomings of SOP in regards to changes to the game since SOP was implemented.
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Context being defined as "Circumstances surrounding a given occurrence".
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@Saul ArgonWould it perhaps be more appropriate to simply keep the forward as something like "SOP should not be looked at in a vacuum, and context should always be considered"?
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*Grumblegrumblegrumble*
For those of you not familiar with the purple name to the left, some time ago I led a community-wide project to create/update Standard Operating Procedure, and expand it to cover all Departments, as well as Legal proceedings (such as Briggings), in addition to a more generalized, non-specific station operation SOP.
The issue that has arisen, is that SOP was written, well, some time ago, and parts of it may very well have become obsolete with time. As such, I'm opening this thread so that anyone can post what they feel is a shortcoming, error or obsolete idea in any SOP, so that it may get fixed.
Nitpicking appreciated, and very much encouraged.
LIST OF IDENTIFIED ISSUES:
- Genetics Department Duality;
- Roboticist Surgical SOP;
- Viral Outbreak Procedure practicality;
- Possibly moving free random searches to Code Red
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After a discussion with the Heads of Staff and Heroo, the following was agreed upon:
1) Considering the circumstances of what happened, the IC events are seen as, even at best, an awful series of miscommunications;
2) The main point of contention is the manner in which Heroo handled this situation;
3) Heroo's tone and attitude was, in fact, very confrontational and unnecessarily accusatory;
4) Heroo has since been talked to and given a warning regarding the way they approached this situation. They wish to extend their apologies for how the player was treated, and has since issued a promise to reconsider the way they attempt to defuse charged situations in the future
Should the OP have anything else to bring up, please do so.
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No fun allowed. Filing to Resolved.
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Alright. After speaking with the people involved, I will be taking this point for point.
Firstly, I would like to point out something that, apparently, eluded you when you made this complaint; namely, the fact that other people may not necessarily be aware of the same IC information as you. Your entire complaint rests on this unstated assumption that because you knew you were right, then others should act in accordance with it, despite this being, at best, incredibly unreasonable to ask of someone who you're not sharing information with.
Regardless, let's take this point for point, shall we?
QuotePeppy however, decided an aggressive stance was needed. He didn't even ask me to come to security or to explain, he just went straight for the arrest, for printing an AI computer board.
You were not arrested merely for printing an AI Computer Board. You were highly suspected of foul play for printing an AI Computer Board and then heading off into the Science Outpost, without Security being made aware that it was destroyed.
This is the crux of the issue. Information does not simply flow once it's placed out there. Miscommunication happens all the time.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:After I get arrested, Peppy finds the headset on me, and puts me in perma. That's the end.
Which they had ample justification for, considering the Encryption Key's status as S-type Contraband.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Now, I needed to tell that backstory for the admin complaint. The admin I had was Spacemanspark, who handled this situation. Before I begin, let me say that I called him incompetent, since in my opinion, he didn't resolve the situation at all.
Emphasis mine. You did not call Spacemanspark incompetent. You may have heavily implied it, but what you actually did was directly tell them "I want a real admin to handle this".
This is not calling someone incompetent. This is outright stating that you do not recognize the legitimacy of their authority, and that, thusly, you don't need/want to listen to them.
As it stands, Spacemanspark is a real admin. As you were quickly reminded by the other Admins online at the time. This ridiculous request, alone, would've been enough for plenty of other Administrators to issue a Permanent Ban on the spot. You are quite lucky with the arrangement of Admins that were around, considering you essentially got a slap on the wrist for what was, in all respects, a massively disrespectful insult.
For the sake of clarity, however, I shall proceed.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:The admin thought and still thinks that a sec officer can order an arrest, going in with disablers blazing, for printing an AI board.
First off, the Security Officer did not "order" an arrest for printing an AI Board. They moved to detain someone they had plenty reasonable IC suspicion to believe was tampering with the AI.
Secondly, the Admin is correct in that belief. Officers can put out a call for an arrest if crimes are committed, as that is, in fact, part of their job.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Instead of asking me to come to security, or explain it, this admin allows security to shoot people under suspicion
Refer to my above point. You keep painting yourself as a completely innocent victim of circumstance while apparently ignoring the fact that, in order for that to apply, the other side of the equation needs to be convinced what they are doing is the correct thing.
In addition, yes, there are plenty of situations where Security is perfectly justified in detaining someone without asking them to cooperate first. In this situation, you have someone who potentially subverted the AI running into the Science Outpost. The Officer in question has every reason to be on edge.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:I don't see how printing an AI board and putting it in the analyzer is reasonable suspicion
Again, see the above points.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Admins like him make security players validhunt, ignoring space law.
This is a severe accusation, and one that is completely and utterly unfounded.
First off, once again, refer to the above points for why Security had ample IC reason to be suspicious of you.
Secondly, note that Security deliberately pursuing individuals they believe to be acting against the integrity/best wishes of the station and its crew is their job. Space Law was not ignore here.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:When asking why he was so certain about Peppy having suspicion on me, he responded with:
Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: There is some information I can't ultimately tell you due to it being IC information.
Which I find strange, since I was half-afk in the round before I printed the board.
Spacemanspark has a reason to obscure this information from you; we do not typically give players IC information unless they are no longer eligible to participate in the round (such as being ghosted), to reduce the risk of any potential metagaming.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:After that he gives, in my opinion, a bad reason to defend himself:
Adminhelp from-Trial AdminSpacemanspark: But more or less, the AI being in your favor after you printing one does raise a slight red flag, if you think about it.
He completely ignores the fact that the board was destroyed, which was announced to the RD.
Firstly, that's not a bad reason. it's, in fact, a perfectly valid conclusion.
Security is given information that leads to them thinking the AI was subverted ---> Security starts chasing down suspect ---> AI is arguing in favor of the suspect
Eyebrows being raised at this point would be a natural response, and it would be highly irresponsible of Security to take the AI's word at face value considering what was suspected to have happened.
Additionally, as I pointed out before, miscommunication happens. Did you perhaps consider that the RD did not pass on the report?
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:I call him out on this, since I don't know how others are more reliable. For some reason this admin thinks that, for example, a captain or HoS sitting in his office knows more about which things were destroyed in the destructive analyzer, than the scientist and the research director IN THE SCIENCE DEPARTMENT. I still have to grasp how he came to this response.
Yes, traditionally, a Security Officer will take the HoS' and Captain's word at a higher value than that of a Scientist working in Science. Not to mention, as I already noted, it is entirely possible the message stopped at the RD. And even then Security would not be at fault for double-checking, considering the sheer amount of damage a subverted AI can do.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Now, in the validhunter rule, it says clearly: Evidence of Antagonist activity is required before you take steps to treat anyone as an Antagonist.
I made sure to add this bit to the Server Rules when I was going through their Revision:
QuoteAttempting to Rules-Lawyer an Administrator is never a good idea, and likely to result in harsher punishment
How were you, exactly, treated like an Antagonist?
Security had reason to believe you absconded to the Science Outpost with an AI Board. Security, therefore, decided to go and detain you. I still fail to see any wrongdoing on their end. Somehow framing this as some sort of "bloodthirsty" (your words) validhunting is disingenuous and, may I say, profoundly misguided.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Peppy treated me as an antagonist (see criminal)
These two things are not the same.
All Antagonists are criminals, but not all criminals are Antagonists.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:for printing an AI computer board
See above. Again.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:The admin accepts this, which, in my opinion, contradicts with the rules
It doesn't.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Then he blames me for getting caught by the headset
No he doesn't. He simply notes that you were being permabrigged over the headset, which is exactly what happened.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:und through his inaction to act as an admin
This reads like you think the Admins are somehow obligated to make sure that everything goes just the way you want them to go. Continuously painting this as a bad Admin stealing the round away from you while completely ignoring the overall context does not really speak in your favor.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Since I was a traitor, I didn't want a sec officer going disablers blasting on me, because he would find certain items, yet this admin blames me for it.
Again, they did not blame you. They were pointing out events that happened.
At this point, you're simply fabricating lies to justify your own emotional reactions.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:Which contradicts with everything that has happened so far. The AI told them to wait a bit, right when I printed the board, and the other officers were going to ask me to come to sec. There was only one officer keen on doing everything to catch me, BEFORE the HoS even told him anything.
Higher-ups, in this situation, refers to the HoS/Captain (once again, see above.
Secondly, there are more ways to talk to people besides using the radio. You are assuming information that you do not have access to.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:This the reason why I made this admin complaint. I believe poor judgement, lack of motivation and a bit of incompetence caused Spacemanspark to ruin my antagonist round.
1 hour ago, Sotrennel said:There's a difference between poor luck and situations which shouldn't happen.
Emphasis mine.
This is the crux of the matter. There was no wrongdoing on Spacemanspark's part. There was no wrongdoing on Security's part, considering the information they had available to them.
This entire Complaint reads like one prolonged "My round was ruined and the Admin is to blame".
They aren't. Sometimes, bad luck happens. Your entire response to this situation was, frankly, toxic and highly disrespectful. Rather than attempting to understand all sides to this debacle, you immediately assumed you were right, and everything you did afterwards was based on that assumption. You made no effort to understand Spacemanspark's decision, and instead opted to paint this as bloodthirst on the part of a player, and incompetence on the part of an Admin when, in fact, all that happened was sheer dumb luck.
To summarize: this complaint is without merit. Locking and moving to Resolved.
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Do not post in Administrator Complaints unless you have anything of substance related to the case to add.
This is currently under investigation.
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Greetings.
The Complaint is currently being investigated. Please await for a response.
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As discussed with both Fethas and Soman via Discord:
Fethas has agreed that their use of the Ion Laws went overboard, and extends their apologies. In addition, they have agreed to privately contact players via PM in order to curb potentially memey behavior should a situation similar to this happen again, as opposed to using in-game mechanics such as these.
Soman has found this to be acceptable. Moving to Resolved.
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Daniel, do not contribute to an Administrator Complaint if you do not have anything valid to contribute.
Regardless, it seems like this is Resolved. Moving to the proper section.
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First of all, this is not Admin Complaint material. There is no complaint here, it is merely an observation on a perceived trend in-game. This belongs in the General Discussion forum, not here. Or even PMed to a Senior+ Administrator.
Secondly, we already have Rules in place to deal with Greytide behavior. If you want us to take a look at someone greytiding excessively, then Adminhelp about it. If an Administrator, in particular, does not handle a situation like that properly, then you have grounds to issue an Administrator Complaint.
We are not omniscient. If we were, we would not have the Adminhelp system. We need your help to keep Paradise clean as well.
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An RP Rule that should hopefully address these issues is currently being worked on.
Stay tuned.
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There is no reason to only have ONE person in charge of workplace internal affairs. Having more individuals eases the load.
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Speaking as someone who both wrote a Space Law Overhaul and spearheaded the project to create Standard Operating Procedure, these are the intended roles:
Magistrate: Ultimate authority on Space Law aboard the station. Can only be overruled by CC, unless they are clearly and evidently wrong. They may preside over Civil Disputes, as detailed on the wiki. They do not investigate cases of SOP being breached;
NanoTrasen Representative: Direct representative of the interests of NanoTrasen on the station. They serve as an advisor to, and coordinator of, members of Command. They may, and should, investigate on whether or not the station is running as expected, and are free to handle workplace complaints by bringing them to the attention of the relevant Command staff;
Internal Affairs Agent: Serve as "underlings" to the Magistrate, they have Security access for a reason. They can, and should, investigate workplace complaints, but should also concern themselves on whether or not Space Law is being correctly followed, and should take steps to instruct Security when it is not, and contact their superiors/CC when they refuse to correct themselves. They split their attention between Security matters and standard workplace grievances, and can serve as defense/prosecution attorneys.
These are, as indicated, the intended roles. If people are acting outside these roles, they are acting outside the intended bounds of their job. If people are not treating their roles as these ones, that is a different issue altogether.
Nonetheless, the IAA is far better adjusted working under the Magistrate than the NT Rep.
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... well, this went to shit quickly.
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No response from OP. Moving to Resolved.
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As requested, moved to Resolved.
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My time as an Overseer is done. A new one will be elected soon, and I will return to my duties as a carpenter. Hopefully, whoever takes over will build on what was done; I would loathe to see my efforts burn into cinders.
Winter was wholly uneventful. The last of this year's harvest was threshed, milled, cooked and brewed, and our stores have enough food and drink to last us for some time, assuming we do not get any more migrants. Work on bedroom and dining room furnishings has begun, making use of our masons.
The only important event was my order to start moving all our stockpiled goods downstairs, as the fortress is nearly completely dug out.
The Food Quarter
This is the main food production and dining area. The kitchen is already visible, with the dining room to be built to the left. Below it is the food and ale storage area, and to the right will be a secondary storage for barrels and pots, facilitating cooking and brewing when it comes to containers.
Above it all will be where our new farm will be located. A room has been dug out above it, along with some channels to divert water into it. We should be able to make this place arable within the year, assuming enough buckets.
The Wood Quarter
As is visible, a large area for the production of wooden crafts and wooden furnishings. The large workshop in the middle will be our Siege Workshop, should we ever even need one. Best err on the side of caution.
A Soap Maker's Workshop has also been built, with an Ashery pending the construction of blocks for it. Living underground is no excuse to not have proper hygiene.
The Living Quarter
Perhaps our greatest failing this year was not finishing up the digging of all our living quarters. My intention was to dig out a full 100 3x3 rooms, in this standardized form, but we barely managed a third of it all, just enough to cover our current population. As it stands, this will need more work done before we are truly ready to handle an influx of population.
The Textile Quarter
Following in the logic of the Wood Quarter, provisions were made for the creation of Looms and Clothier's Shops, in addition to a dedicated workshop for the future creation of quires. We lack any weavers or clothesmakers at this point, but that will change in the future. I am sure of it.
Finished Goods Stockpile
Below the Textile Quarter, this will hold all the finished materials we produce, as well as all furnishings, spare weaponry, armor and clothing. On the top left corner will be our definitive Depot.
The Stone Quarter, and Metallurgy Quarter
To the left will be our main stone stockpiles, along with the workshops for our masons, mechanics and stonecrafters. To the right, our stockpile of ores and gems, as well as our furnaces, forges and jewelry workshops. Below the rightmost area will be the stockpile for processed bars and blocks, as this room would not be enough. At least this bit is practically fully dug out.
Well... so ends my tenure as the Overseer of Bustbodice. Armok's blessing be upon the next Overseer.
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Work on the fortress down below is progressing at astounding speed, despite our numbers only counting three miners. It seems that their constant work over the Spring and Summer paid off, as the stone melts like butter at the strikes of their picks. We may very well be able to finish it by year's end! I just hope the next Overseer does something proper with it, lest our efforts be for naught.
The excavation has also yielded plenty of stone to be used in the construction of furnishings and profitable crafts. As soon as everything is set, we will be moving all our materials downstairs and start work on establishing proper bedroom accommodations for our group. I fear that our lack of capable warriors may bite us in the arse later on, but frankly, it won't be my problem, and the area around us is quite calm as it is. We barely get any wildlife, let alone anything worse.
Speaking of, another group of migrants arrived mid-Autumn, swelling our small outpost to a population of 18 able-bodied dwarves. Thanks to these extra numbers, we have bolstered our production capability of masonry, threshing and stonecrafting. That should make the creation of furnishings far easier in the long run. We also recruited another cook, seeing as our stores of food are quite respectable.
On a final note, the liaison from the Mountainhomes arrived. It seems that the slight issue with the Adamantine tube was "addressed", as they said, but that doing so essentially blocked off any possible mining operations. As such, multiple other outposts have been formed in an effort to funnel resources back home. I hope my family is doing well. I shall be seeing them soon.
A trade arrangement was obtained from the liaison; I requested that next year's shipment be heavy with both ale and various types of cheese. Makes for good nutrition.
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All is well in Bustbodice. At least so far.
The first wave of migrants arrived from the west, numbering 6. Thanks to these numbers, we were able to bolster our productivity by not only appointing a work manager and bookkeeper, but also a mason, a stonecrafter, and a dedicated brewer and cook. The last two have been quite helpful, taking the (as predicted) bountiful harvest and turning it into hearty food and strong ale for the rest of us. The Pig Tails grew well this year, and if we're lucky, we may be able to start working on these ratty old clothes we all have to wear.
An unfortunate side effect of our sudden popularity was our lack of room for our hole bedrooms. We had to divert some manpower to dig out a few more holes, and I had to double-time it in order to produce enough beds, but now, not only do we have enough to cover for the new arrivals, we also have backups in case we get any more surprise visits.
30 rooms, ready to be used
Thanks to our new Mason, we were able to get a Quern up and running, just in time for the Cave Wheat harvest. We should be able to keep planting throughout Autumn, along with the Pig Tails. The leaves plucked from the Quarry Bushes, and the syrup from the Sweet Pods, along with some finely grounded flour, should be enough to start stockpiling some proper meals. I'm getting tired of eating raw Plump Helmets, the taste is getting to me.
Apart from that, the newcomers offered some much-needed hands to finish hauling off all the wood we chopped down.
Down below, progress is... not as fast as I would have hoped. Probably shouldn't have had the miners dig out two entirely separate sections of the fortress, but I said we'd be done by year's end, and that's exactly what I'm aiming for, even if I'm likely to miss that goal. Plans have been laid out for the Stone Crafter's Quarter (which is untouched as of now, sadly enough), as well as the Dining Quarter, which has been partially dug out.
Farming Area, Dinining Room/Kitchen, Food Storage/Barrel Storage, from top to bottom
In an effort to maximize our defensive potential, and minimize the chances of any attackers managing to enter the fortress proper, I have opted not to have a simple entrance. Rather, and building on a design from the Mountainhomes, I have instructed the miners to dig out a killzone in front of the stairways leading down from the surface. This means any invader will have to necessarily go through a gauntlet of crossbow bolts and finely crafted steel edges before they even get to the rest of us.
Partially dug out. Pillboxes for Marksdwarves visible below the main area
Put some traps in there and it'll be perfect.
With Autumn coming, the liaison from the Mountainhomes should be arriving soon. We've yet to build a Depot, so we'll need to focus on that right away. We lack anything of note to trade with our brethren, but we can at least hope to secure a good trade deal for next year. Whoever turns out to be our Overseer will, hopefully, benefit from my actions this time around.
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Praise the miners! Lignite has been found, ready to fuel our furnaces at a moment's notice! Armok's shiny beard, I knew this was a good spot! Our miners barely had to scratch the soil before sedimentary stone was found; the layer is thick, and rich with both ores and precious stones. And even better, ripe for exploration and mining! As soon as we get the Mudstone out of the way, we should be able to begin work on the forges.
Other areas are running along just as smoothly. The farmers have set up a small plot of arable land, upon which Sweet Pods, Plump Helmets and Quarry Bushes have been planted. The harvest is about to begin, and it seems like it'll be a good one, even with the small number of seeds we brought along. Thankfully, one of the farmers knew a bit of cooking, and we even managed to scrounge up some extra supplies from the pack animals so graciously donated by the Mountainhomes.
The wagon has since been disassembled, and its contents brought underground, along with a few stacks of wood logs I cut down meself. A basic refectory was set up so we won't have to eat while standing up, and the food has been separated from the rest of the supplies. In addition, some basic dormitories were set up, little more than holes with beds in them. Until the proper fortress is dug out, this will do.
Additional dormitories have since been dug out, in anticipation for any possible refugees headed our way. In the interest of getting work done as quickly as possible, the miners have been instructed to begin digging out the fortress proper, in an igneous intrusive layer, into the gabbro below. If all goes well, we should have it dug out by year's end.
Included within this report is a sketch of our current accommodations.
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My name is Kulet Degelakmesh.
Following an unfortunate incident with overeager Adamantine miners in the Mountainhomes, the Families saw fit to outfit an expedition that would locate a new site upon which a home could be built for ourselves. "Sturdy Stone", they asked for, "fit for hundreds."
Despite my best efforts to the contrary, I was nominated as the leader of this expedition, given some food, some spirits and far more promises than opportunities. After a few weeks of travel, we find our food supplies running low; however, I believe we may have found the right place. I sense a bounty of ores beneath me feet, and the promise of steel is in the air. This will be a good place to set up camp for further expansion.
Plenty of wood, some ponds, and plenty of sand and arable soil. There is little time to waste here. We must get ready for the inevitable wave of refugees.
Admin Complaint - Saywat the 15th
in Resolved
Posted
Greetings.
We do not really have any set policy on which Administrator handle which appeals, though for the sake of making the process easier, the informal process tends to follow the lines of "Admin Bans, Admin Handles Appeal", barring exceptional circumstances where the Administrator in question recognizes their inability to be unbiased in handling the appeal (this coming from someone who's been in that exact situation multiple times).
While I can understand your concern, the fact of the matter is Saywat is an Administrator precisely because the Server Staff, as a whole, and the Head Administration, in particular, trust them to enforce the Server Rules correctly. This means that we also trust them to handle appeals correctly, which they have.
Reviewing the case myself, I can see their reasoning for applying the Day Ban, and do not disagree with it. The entire point of a Day Ban is to serve as a time-out so the banned player can reconsider their actions. You opted to appeal a type of ban that we rarely, if ever, lift, not only because of its purpose, but also because of how short it is.
In regards to specific points:
As pointed above, we trust our Administrators. And really, the person involved is most likely the one most qualified to handle the appeal, considering they hold the most information and experience. A cursory look at our Accepted sub-forum will reveal literally dozens of examples of Administrators lifting their own bans. We see no reason to consider this system is unfair on the players, as it has given no reason to think so.
It's not a matter of disagreement, it's a matter of the Server Rules being broken.
I can assure you, we can still see the case. Had we any reason to believe it was poorly handled, you would've been the first person to know.
As noted above, we disagree.
There is no misconduct on Saywat's part. Filing this under Resolved.