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Generaldonothing

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Posts posted by Generaldonothing

    Cult balance

    in Debates and Discussions

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, DwaneLoki said:

    I had a very similar thought recently and I think this would be a excellent change. Security players shouldn't be punished so harshly by being perma'd after being sharded and dying, I would go so far as to make it converting shards something that can be done by splashing holy water on the shard rather than requiring a chaplain. Making the conversion for shards and cultists the same process for ease of that tug of war type gameplay.

    you may vibe with this then, made by octus

    https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20402

    • Like 1

    The radial menu-ing (Radial menu suggestion and discussion thread)

    in Code Discussion

    Posted

    I'm planning to change a lot of things to radial menus due to input being pretty buggy and radial menus having their performance fixed: so slap down what you think would be good with a radial menu rather than another thing.

    In terms of making your own radial menus it's pretty complicated but you either 1. Make a straight list of items and slap them in a static list (Performant and you can use a bitwise operator to automatically change the list if need be, most flexible option) 2. Make an MA of the item (good for stuff that changes often and would result in a lot of codebloat, like the ctrl click swapping on mechas). Then slap that list into a `show_radial_menu` proc, with a anchor (often the user/item), the user, and the actual list of icons to show. Example of like show_radial_menu(usr, src, my_list), then you store that as a var, your code should structurally look like this now:

    var/my_var = show_radial_menu(usr/user, src/user, my_list)

    other options normally don't matter.

     

    in terms of where these should be used it should be for stuff that uses input() and shows a table (AND IS NOT OOC, DO NOT RADIAL MENU OOC THINGS, EXTREMELY LAG CAN AND HAS STOPPED MENUS FROM PROPERLY DISPLAYING), and alert() stuff that can really be 3 options

    right now I got a two radial menu prs up, being the holopara injector and the borg hypo. 

    My current todo list is:

    * station vendor circuit select

    * advanced pinpointer

    * telekinesis like abilities (dropdown to MA radial)

    * ranged holoparasite (also moving it away from a verb at least)

    * alt_click override for the 3 shot type guns (HOS gun for example)

    * disco machine (Will probably need sprites for each of the song, TGUI would also be sweet on this)

    * cardboard cuttouts

    Changeling hivemind discussion thread

    in Suggestions

    Posted

    This threads purpose is to discuss the current state of the changeling hivemind link and to figure out if it's a positive addition to the antagonist or not.

    The changeling hivemind is a pretty controversial topic at this time, even before the tripled chemical regen. A roundstart antagonist (Normally 5-7 of them on their own gamemode) having free roundstart communication tools between a non-team antagonist is a unique concept. Something being unique does not equate to any form of quality however, and many people feel that the general changeling experience would be far better off without it. 
    I also would love to hear of any replacements for hivemind that people may wish to share, sometimes the alternative is simply better!
    I've been running a survey recently, and it's pretty much tied between people who want it to stay vs those who want it gone (This is not a good thing)

    Some common arguments from both sides;

    Linglink supporters:

    Encourages teamwork amoung changelings

    Adds a native social element to a more combat focused antagonist

     

    Linglink removal supporters:

    Teaming changelings often get a numbers advantage out of the gate, leading to murderbone-y situations

    The linglink is very safe, stuff like ; g am hop come for AA isn't a joke for no reason

     

    (Sidenote: I'm not going to mention anything related to winrate because from the data I've gathered, people don't want to go for their objectives as a cling due to it not being fun to persue rather than it being a power issue)

     

    So yeah just throw your arguments in this thread and people can discuss them

    Changeling balance feedback survey

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Rurik said:

    336545768_trickquestion.png.e2b349f2e9e3657d7498503e52d9371d.png

    is this a trick question? changeling specific objective (genomes and become X) is too easy since genomes can be cheesed without a single absorption via DNA sting (which doesnt even out you as a cling), and the become X usually just becomes transform into X by the end of the round (no real way to fix this one though, if people dont wana become target we cant force them)

    This was supposed be "escape alive with identity and them being dead" I probably should have clarified better tho

    Posibility to Name and Disguise person who took Xenomicrobes.

    in Suggestions

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Coolrune206 said:

    I do not think giving normal crew a "become antagonist" button is a good plan. It'd result in a lot of people seeking this out specifically to become an antag for free, or a whole host of other undesirable behaviour for an MRP environment. 

    Xenomicrobes are super rare, and can only be found in two places (They should really not be able to be found in those places though)
    So getting them is like... alright? Not that pressing of an issue

    General thread on why changelings suck

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, CornMyCob said:

    Adding cooldowns to this could maybe somehow help with that design flaw but that would also just be a nerf without any other changes which is the opposite of what we need right now.

    Wasn't trying to suggest we should add more cooldowns. Rather move to a cooldown system instead of chemicals, but that's not the main point of this comment.

    The point of this post was to get everyone on the same page to some extent with the issues that changeling has, and to see if people had further issues I may have glossed over. Rather not have any more breaks in communication, which is a big damage to any project.

    Also, any chance you could relay what design team is looking for @necaladun based off our chat in DMs? Just wanna keep people on the same level.

    3 hours ago, CornMyCob said:

    The question is what to do. Would we want to touch up some of their abilities? Rework the chemical system? Would this even be enough? We can just say rework them, but somebody ultimately has to code that which is a huge task with its own caveats.

    In all honestly a full rework is needed here, changeling doesn't do much of anything outside of do its objectives really hard. In terms of options, I do actually have a couple of documents that I'm currently revising to be posted later after everyone is on the same page with what they want. For coding we'll get to it when we get to it, but it's probably going to fall on to me by default. 

    Make Assassination Objectives Not Require Permakilling

    in Suggestions

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    I think we're on the same side of this. I think you misunderstood what I wrote in my post. I'm not saying assassinations CAN'T be enjoyable and fun for both parties, just that there is no incentive to do so. It's more efficient to just stay under the radar, kill silenty and interact as little as possible with your victim. This is what the current system incentivizes.

     

    People also don't do this because it's boring for both the antagonist and the person antagonized, fun is the incentive. The most efficient way to do anything is silently, doesn't mean people want to be silent. Also, how else am I supposed to take "To complete their goals, they are not incentiviced do make the victims round "fun" or "interesting". It's just to kill them" as anything but "I don't think they're enjoyable".  

     

    12 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    People may argue that an antagonists role is to make the game fun and interesting (as per the rules) but there is really no ingame incentive to do that.

     This game is entirely roleplay focused, the incentive is that it's fun for both people involved. Clicking on the 2D spaceman is boring without anything to back that up, some green text at the end of the game means literally nothing, it's the roleplay that revolves around it that makes it fun.
     

    14 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    Just to be clear, I want to warn the victims + some other random people that are not victims. So if Pete is the target, Pete, Lisa, Todd, Aleister, Arma, Frank, Rufus, and Josh get the same message, even though only Pete is the target. I figure it should be around 10% likely (example number could be higher or lower) of you actually being the victim if you get the message.

    I know what you're saying, what I'm saying is that it's going to make the round less fun for everyone who gets it. You're not gonna sit there and do nothing, especially if it's a new player who gets it. Also, you should actually detail implementation first and formost, especially if it deals with a low chance like that.
    Also that chance is way too low.
     

    17 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    - I personally don't like being the target of assassination, but I wouldn't stop playing if I knew the message was most likely untrue.

    Other people certainly will, and what would you do if you got this message? Game mechanics shouldn't be designed specifically for your enjoyment, you need to consider other people.
     

    18 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    - If most people rp:ed their assassinations, I don't think my suggestion adds anything, but it's my experience that people don't, for reasons I've stated above. If an antag is already planning on killing a person without RP, I don't believe this message will change their approach, because they are already using the most efficient approach.

    I read this and the first thing that comes to mind is "You weren't actually expecting feedback, were you?" You need to consider that other people will see the post and think "Ah fuck I'm a target I need self defense!", which is going to end in 30 people with prods because possible antagonists could be out to get them. Or you make the chance so low the feature becomes totally worthless unless you don't get it, and you get the "yay I'm not a target pass" for a round.
     

    22 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    -I disagree that it would make it impossible. 

    - I do belive this takes the edge off the feeling of being "randomly killed" for no reason which is a feeling I've had (and I belive the thread starter) has had many times. When you get assassinated, you received a warning earlier in the game. There was setup for you being targeted, and being attacked is the payoff.

    How does an antagonist approach a target if they know someone is coming otherwise? They're certainly not going into another room with you, you could be a antag! The only option you have is to beat them into the dirt unceremoniously, which is a terrible payoff. Not to mention you're not getting any payoff if you're not actually a target.
     

    25 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    - If there are 2 assassination targets, there would be around 20 people getting the warning. I don't see how they can be efficiently protected. Furthermore, I don't think security would waste their time when 90% of the messages are fake anyways. They will most likely have more pressing concerns.

    This is going to result in nothing good, 18 people are gonna go get stuff to defend themselves. There are also far more than 2 targets a shift. Either this does nothing or it does too much.
     

    27 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    - This is a good point, but I think this only goes for assassination targets. Objectives such as "make sure they don't leave the station" wouldn't be affected. Or not all assassination victims have to get the alert. This is just a suggestion, the specifics are not set in stone.

    The objection you referenced has like a ~1/5 chance of being rolled, the vast majority of objectives will still be kill. Get that stuff set in stone, we can't judge your idea properly otherwise.
     

    28 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    - I don't think it's better because it makes it harder for the antags. I think it's better because it takes the edge of being randomly murdered without warning as a (usually) defenseless victim.

    So, you're arguing in favor of a feature which is supposed to make you tense... by removing tension? Also, you're not the main character, sometimes you die, and die horribly!
     

    30 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    This comes out of nowhere and it actually makes me a bit sad. I'm really sorry you feel this way and I don't really understand how you get to the point that I would be "willing to manipulate data". It's just a suggestion, it has no ill intention or even power to change anything.

     Then tell me what this is supposed to mean, the only way to take it is "If you judge this the way I want you to, it's good." This is a red flag and a half currently and I suggest you elaborate on it
     

    31 minutes ago, maxfromsweden said:

    If I play antag I actually enjoy stealing someone elses PDA and warning my target of assassination. In my experience they've enjoyed it and it feels a lot better for me than just randomly killing someone. If we circle back to the top of the post, wouldn't this be a way more interesting experience for the victim than just randomly being attacked?

    So, you found a fun gimmick you use as an antagonist? Great. Don't force that on to other people who might not want to do it. You've also asked if I think it would be more intresting, I say no, this would be absolutely annoying at best, validhunting encouraging at worst.

    • Like 1

    Make Assassination Objectives Not Require Permakilling

    in Suggestions

    Posted

    2 hours ago, maxfromsweden said:

    You hit the nail on the head with this. I've been thinking about this problem quite a bit. I don't think player elimination is a good thing but as it stands it looks as it's not being removed. What you're describing is the best strategy for the antags to play their game. To complete their goals, they are not incentiviced do make the victims round "fun" or "interesting". It's just to kill them.

     

    This is not true
    Assassination objectives can be used to create very enjoyable situations, provided that the antagonist can be put in a position to do that. Cling specifically struggles to do this, but vamp and traitor have many different options. What matters is more that way that you're killed, not the act of being killed. @henri215is a great example of someone who can make kill objectives fun.
     

    2 hours ago, maxfromsweden said:

    The solution I've come up with is to WARN THE VICTIMS BEFOREHAND. They can get a PDA-Spam message like "You've been identified as a potential target for assassination by the syndicate. Watch out." Obviously, you should send this out to some other non-victims aswell so no one knows if it's true or not. Also the exact wording and source of the message can be figured out.

     

    I am fully against this for the following reasons
    - If you get this you are encouraged to stop playing the game. Getting a message like this will result in the people who got this instantly going to cryo, or going to security demanding protection.
    - This entirely forces antagonists to get things done quickly, if you get "the funny message" that just means you have been given a reason to refuse roleplay with people in fear they will end your round. Antagonists aren't going to "be nice" when they get this, they're gonna be forced to go full on unga mode.

     

    2 hours ago, maxfromsweden said:

    Talk about increasing suspense and paranoia for the victim (and even the non victims that just get it for spam). It will probably be slightly harder for the antags, but their goal is to make a round fun and interesting right?

     

    It'll be near fucking impossible if they don't go loud instantly and .357 the person down(or similar). This does not fix the issue presented, it makes it way worse.

    2 hours ago, maxfromsweden said:
    • All victims would be "prepared" to be murdered and it would seem "fairer", since they knew about it beforehand. (Increased fun for victims)
    • Even non victims would be afraid and more paranoid, even though they are not in any more danger than anyone else. (Increased fun for non victims)
    • Antags could get it slightly harder. (Potentially decreased fun for antagonist)

    - All victims would get protection or leave the game, and it's not fair to the antagonist
    - People who don't get the message won't give a fuck and can simply assume they aren't affected by antagonists. The people who do get it would do the above.
    - "It's harder so it's better", this doesn't increase the skill level or anything, just forces people to go loud.

    2 hours ago, maxfromsweden said:

    Measuring it like this, you have more people benefitting from this change than people not benefitting from it.

    Don't put something like this in any proposal, the only thing I can take from this is that you're willing to manipulate data if given the opportunity 

    • Like 1

    Alien misinformation and generally unknown mechanics

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    28 minutes ago, Boardwalksky said:

    How do you effectively fight aliens? Any weapons In particular 

     

    Nothing is a catch all solution, lasers and other burn based weapons do well against them. Effectively fighting them really comes down to skill and waiting for an opening.

     

    29 minutes ago, Boardwalksky said:

    also, you can perma kill someone as alien *and get a large Health increase? Iv never played against aliens, can someone who has give me their opinion  on if that’s OP?

    It's pretty good, but the dead person is pretty likely already playing as an alien, 10 units of sacid is nothing to scoff at

    General thread on why changelings suck

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Starting notes: This post is going to be covering why the current implementation is such a mess, and won't really be offering solutions. I'll probably make a forum post later explaining some possible routes for them.


    Why evopoints fail as a meaningful resource system:
    - You get too many compared to the cost of abilities, 10 evopoints will get you everything you want and then some. Every ability cost 1-2 evo. This is made even worse due to their options being pretty boring and bad

    - They don't actually interact with the other abilities you have access to, meaning that it's only used for one thing

    - Reroll is totally sidelined due to the above, and really won't be used even though it's a cool concept


    Why chemicals don't work as a resource system:
    - Cannot be increased in any way, meaning that changelings on higher populations are gonna get screwed due to the sheer amount of people playing. This also means that players won't feel like they're making progress.

    - They have a high cap and low recharge rate. Encouraging people to sit in a locker for a minute or more is terrible for everyone involved, and so heavily encourages "cheese tactics". The idea of chemicals is to make a changeling wait for an opening, go in with full chemicals, and get out after using them to win the encounter. This does not work in practice, because 90 people play here, not 15 (Lowpop cling is fun as fuck btw it's actually amazing and was designed specifically for that setting).

    - Forces abilities to directly compete against each other, stuff like speed legs VS epiOD is way more stupid with chemicals taken into account rather than just looking at something like a cooldown.

    - Forces abilities to have a low power level. Allowing this stuff to be spammed super heavily means that the stuff you get needs to be kind of shit.


    The whole "Absorb"/DNA/Transformation mechanic is underdeveloped

    -Absorbing someone? Cool. Does less than it really should. Absorbing someone doesn't feel satisfying, it feels tedious.

    - DNA sting kind of trivalizes absorb type mechanics, making the ever present action button only used if absolutely required.

    -Transformation is kind of ass, you don't get their clothes, their ID, or useable information about them. As many people don't use the notes feature, you're normally left in the dark. Plus this is highpop so good luck impersonating anyone with an actual character because you probably don't know them (I feel bad for the clings that get me).

    - It's a bit clunky to use, being forced to stop is weird (God I love TG radical menus)

     

    Abilities:

    - A few of them are total griefing tools. Hallu sting, spiders, and resonant shriek are really only used for purposes of griefing, rather than doing anything fun. These also aren't very good.

    -Some of them are just bad in almost every situation. Organic space suit is really, really bad and is worse than taking fleshmend and doing a spacewalk. Digital chamo is a sick joke against anyone that takes it. Last resort is awful but really funny.

    -Some of them are really good but really boring. Fleshmend does what it says on the tin, which is really, really boring. Augmented eyesight is great, but nobody is all that happy to take it. Armblade is a fireaxe that puts a KOS label on you. The sting that mutes you sure does that. It's this most bog standard vanilla icecream shit that makes you think "Man I wish I rolled tot".

    - A lot of them encourage low interaction gameplay. Mute sting stops someone from trying to call for help, and removes an option they have. Blind sting removes an option they have for escaping. Removing options causes frustration, and using your options effectively, also known as skillfully playing, is taken less into account.

    -Most of them instantly out you for being a changeling. You can't blend in if the use of your own abilities make you stand out.

    -I didn't have another place to mention it, but changeling claims to be "versatile", which is complete bullshit. Abunch of bad options does not make for a good varied kit.

     

    Regeneration:

    - Serves the purpose of making cling KOS 100% of the time, that's good? Kind of, but it does kind of suck they have an awful ability that pretends to be good.

    - This is used to get rid of robotic limbs startshift, nothing else

    - If you were seriously hurt due to a firefight, reviving is still a bad idea. In those 40 seconds they are going to probably find you, cuff you, and then strip everything you have. 


    Hivemind:

    - ":g am the HOP come for AA" is an example of the kind of things you're going to hear, it encourages people to do objectives for the other changelings without any real gain.

    - The risk of actually finding a buddy is removed. Put bluntly "working together" as a cling isn't common because you actively looked for each other, and when it goes happen it's like 3 people just murderboning.

    - Hivemind link isn't an ability that is ever used, nor is it used for anything good when it is. Pretty much just used to fuck up other clings. Dunno why this exists when you can simply... talk to them.

    Actual changeling lore stuff:

    - The "Oh yeah they're actually just some random alien" absolutely ruins roleplay potental, giving people 0 reason to even attempt to roleplay with a changeling at all. 

    - Changelings not being crew, but rather someone who replaced crew, is a nightmare. Letting silicons straight up murderize changelings sounds funny on paper, but it ends up just creating extreme "technically not validing" situations. God forbid someone accidentally kills a changeling and now everyone is scratching their head on what to do next.

    - It's underdeveloped so people just throw whatever they want to into it and say it's how it should be. Most people have a notion of what changeling should be... informed by themselves and nobody else. Changeling doesn't have an identity, and complaining something isn't "changeling like" is a silly argument.

     

    Well, there you go, if you yourself have issues that I didn't mention, throw them below. Remember to keep cling off at all times.

    • Like 3
    • bap 1

    Alien misinformation and generally unknown mechanics

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Generaldonothing
    New section

    This post will cover some misinformation and other unknown mechanics in the alien antag, as I've seen a lot of it

    1. Alien embryos do not require the host to be alive

    Alien embryos do not need the host to be alive to fully hatch, only the implantation from a facehugger requires that the person be alive. Please stop LOOCing aliens complaining you got killed.

    2. Aliens can consume the dead for a significant health increase

    Aliens can use the devour command on dead carbon mobs for significant healing, getting 10 units of sacid in their system
    yes this permakills the person you ate

    3. A large amount of alien structures can be placed on each other

    with the exception of eggs, most structures can be placed on each other
    This will probably be changed soon enough

    4. Alien corrosive acid breaks down walls and floors

    it doesn't, it kills people very quickly though

    5. Aliens can put out fires on themselves by going into space or stop drop and rolling

    Very few people know this, it's rather helpful however

    6. Aliens can process viruses

    Pretty unknown, but they can be affected by good and bad viruses

    7. Aliens are affected by electrical shocks

    Aliens take shock damage, breaking shocked grills is a generally bad idea

    8. Aliens can be handcuffed

    Aliens and alien larva can be handcuffed
    Perfect for arresting them?

    9. Aliens can be bola'd

    Aliens can be bola'd, they can still still break out of it very easily

    OTHER NOTES:

    Aliens get plasma from plasma

     

    STUFF THATS INTENDED BUT NEEDS TO BE FIXED:

    alien eggs auto ejecting face huggers to a target near it (done in a pr made by me)

    Other aliens getting a message when the alien queen dies

    Hunter leaps working in 0gs (this was removed to effectively cover up an issue with alien code, it should be fixed and readded)

     

    If you have any questions on aliens, feel free to ask them

    • Like 1

    Secondary station goals

    in Suggestions

    Posted · Edited by Generaldonothing

    GBP GONE START MAKING FEATURES
    Lo and behold, engineering getting some love

    New moderate one-shot midround, roughly occurs once every two rounds.

    Engineering and the communications get a new message: A secondary station goal has been assigned to your station! [Blah blah actual goal]. An inspector team will arrive in [Time].

    Engineers are not required to do this goal, but the inspector team will be disappointed and probably give them a bad review. No bonus for them!

    Secondary station goals are made up of the following:
    A location + [Specific build] (85%)
    A location + [Remodeling] (10%)
    A location + [Freeform] (5%)

    Blacklisted locations: Anything not on the main station/arrivals shuttle, cryodorms, pods (pods are just too small)
    Everything else can be rolled as a location, sucks to be an AI if CC asks for your core to become a laundromat but that's life.

    Specific builds: Requires that you create a specific build, will be compiled in a txt document. Some examples of these are a new office for a department head, a tribute to those who lost their lives in a mine explosion, or a general service area such as a bar. It is to be expected that people may not take too kindly to you... repurposing their workplaces, but CC orders are CC orders. Small areas like the captain's office will probably be weighted less than something like dorms.

    Remodel: What it sounds like, give it a new coat of paint and do your damn best.

    Freeform: Go do whatever, just needs to look cool!


    The inspector role (Opt in, special role)

    After 20-30 minutes, an inspector team will be called in to see what the engineering team has done.

    The inspector team will have the following gear:
    Hardhats (Spess osha regulations)
    Hazard vests (Spess osha)
    Flashlights 
    A fluff measuring tool
    Clipboard
    Work boots
    Green jumpsuits (Best be obvious)
    An ID with all engineering and general accesses, and trader access (which their shuttle requires)
    Headset with general communications and ERT communications (Engineers should be able to plan out how to waste the inspectors time if shit hits the fan and they need to fix it)

    Inspectors will be given their own shuttle to board the station, it docks in the same location of the Jupiter trader's shuttle. Best to check to make sure nobody is already docked.
    Inspectors will not be sent on gamma alert

    Inspectors have the job of inspecting then ranking engineering's secondary station goal. The station's secondary goal is ranked on a 1-10 scale, 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest (this is done at the base of their operations)

    Depending on the grade, engineers get bonuses.

    Coding wise DB and role stuff, along with a touch of mapping and a new HUD icon.


    (If you want feel free to post ideas for possible specific builds, I'm working on a document containing them all.)

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