unmovedmover Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Space Law currently defines vandalism: "To deliberately damage the station or station property without malicious intent." ¹ This formulation of vandalism as "damage" is too narrow. For, the definition only includes as "damage" the destruction of station property, not its defacement. Indeed, the present definition allows graffiti, which is the act most associated with vandalism in real-life. How absurd is it that the Clown can write, "F*** Security" in the lobby of the brig, and face no legal repercussions whatsoever? Or that scientists can be allowed to perform "renovations," (which often involve blanketing a large area with carpet) without permission from the respective department head? The suggestion that crewmembers should be allowed to indiscriminately deface and make ugly their station would not be tolerated by Nanotrasen. The allowances in the present definition are deficiencies in the Law. They are unbefitting of a medium-RP server. Therefore, I propose that we reinstate the old definition: "To deliberately damage or deface the station without malicious intent." ² This change would once again make graffiti a crime. Notes ¹ http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php?title=Space_law ² http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php?title=Space_law&oldid=3671 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 People shouldn't be getting brigged for drawing in crayon, it's shitty. If they're really being a nuisance about it or really taking the piss all you have to do is have the relevant head of staff order them to stop, if they keep it up then they're derelicting duty, which isn't actually a crime anymore but the threat of demotion should work for most people. It's well within IC rights to taze them in the eyes and "confiscate" their "materials" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unmovedmover Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 People shouldn't be getting brigged for drawing in crayon, it's shitty. The important thing is that security is able to stop vandals from vandalising, not that they are brigged. Perhaps adding to the security SOP the proviso that an arrest is only warranted for graffiti if the suspect does not cease, or if they are a repeat offender, would solve the concern of security abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullyBBurnalot Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Graffiti hurts no one. It would be incredibly dickish for people to be arrested because they coated the station with graffiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unmovedmover Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 Graffiti hurts no one. It is an offense to the eyes. Certainly, Nanotrasen would consider graffiti a violation of station property. It would be incredibly dickish for people to be arrested because they coated the station with graffiti. To an IC observer, it is dickish for someone to coat the station with graffiti. One should not have to put up with someone defacing their department. They should be able to call security and have them stopped. To be sure, it would be dickish for security to abuse the law and hand out harsh punishments for graffiti, but that is not what I'm advocating here. It is a minor crime and should be treated as such. Preferably, security would give multiple warnings before arresting someone for defacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPK Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 I'm split on this. On one hand, security's job is to provide SECURITY. Redoing departments with chemsmoke grenades isn't really a threat to station. On the other, I do understand how annoying seeing lumps of chocolate everywhere can be from an IC standpoint. From an IC standpoint, it makes sense. From an OOC standpoint, it really doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Being brigged for vandalism is probably the most dickish thing security can do, and let's be honest about 90% of sec regulars are just looking for an excuse to lock the clown up. A better solution would be to add community service to space law. Offenders of minor crimes being required to clean up their own mess wearing shackles and a hideous orange junpsuit. Put a mop and bucket in security and maybe some soap so that anyone who thinks putting graffiti everywhere or redecorating with blood bombs is funny can be forced to clean it themselves if caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Graffiti hurts no one. It would be incredibly dickish for people to be arrested because they coated the station with graffiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitguise Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Being brigged for vandalism is probably the most dickish thing security can do, and let's be honest about 90% of sec regulars are just looking for an excuse to lock the clown up. A better solution would be to add community service to space law. Offenders of minor crimes being required to clean up their own mess wearing shackles and a hideous orange junpsuit. Put a mop and bucket in security and maybe some soap so that anyone who thinks putting graffiti everywhere or redecorating with blood bombs is funny can be forced to clean it themselves if caught. I...holy shit. I actually really like this idea. Bonus points for putting someone in a maid costume with kitty ears and a collar instead of the orange jumpsuit, just for the humiliation factor. Then they REALLY will think twice about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 You could just, y'know, fire the person if they're busy doing graffiti instead of their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Its usually the clown. How the hell are you going to fire the clown, give them an actaul job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unmovedmover Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 The concern has been raised that it would be dickish for security to arrest people for graffiti. My goal with this suggestion is to allow security to solve IC-disputes regarding graffiti. I do not intend to give security a mechanism for abuse. Here are some possible amendments to my suggestion that would address this concern while maintaining the spirit of the law: Make graffiti a separate crime with a 1-minute sentence. Make arrest only warranted for graffiti if the suspect does not cease when asked or is a repeat offender. Create a "three-strikes" system, whereby warnings are issued for the first two incidents of graffiti and an arrest is only warranted on the third incident. Require crewmembers to pay a fine for graffiti based on the amount of property defaced. This fine is paid to the Janitor. If the suspect cannot pay the fine, then an arrest is warranted. Community service [...] Offenders of minor crimes being required to clean up their own mess wearing shackles and a hideous orange jumpsuit. Put a mop and bucket in security and maybe some soap so that anyone who thinks putting graffiti everywhere or redecorating with blood bombs is funny can be forced to clean it themselves if caught. This sounds hilarious, but I think that giving officers the power to humiliate crewmembers through this system would provide too much of an incentive for security abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 My intent for CS would be that you don't serve a brig sentence if you are doing community service, at least not for that "crime". Sentences under 5 minutes are barely worth handing out since it takes the average Security Team at least that long to process, search and argue before putting a person in the cell. There would definitely need to be guidelines and policy as far as CS goes, but it would allow for little things like graffiti, littering and other such things of that nature to be solved in an oh-so-peaceful manner, possibly opening the way for more active punishments when it's clear that sitting in time out for 10-40 minutes isn't going to discourage more incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Its usually the clown. How the hell are you going to fire the clown, give them an actaul job? If it's the clown, nobody should genuinely care about his crayon scribbles. I'm thinking more for other persons who are busy neglecting their job to scribble on floors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakers457 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Trying to arrange community service would be a ballache, trying to do anything long winded or 'fair' usually ends up with some chucklefuck sticking a spanner in the works and probably result in CS never being used. I'd much prefer a three point system for minor things like graffiti, you get three warnings and after that you get a five minute sentence. Warning's should be a thing anyway, as long as people update the records (which doesn't really happen, but you know.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unmovedmover Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Another, more comprehensive, suggestion would be to add a new subset of crimes to Space Law titled "delinquency." This would cover minor infractions such as graffiti, misuse of radio channels, hooliganism, harassment, etc. These crimes would not carry any sentence in themselves. Instead, Space Law would give officers the power to intervene and stop the delinquent behavior, but not to punish the offenders. Offenders would only be arrested if they refuse to cease their delinquent behavior. Thus, a delinquent could avoid punishment by cooperating with security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citinited Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 The janitor (or anyone with soap or a mop and bucket) can remove any graffiti with next to no effort. Graffiti is a nuisance, yes, but it has no IC effect other than to look ugly. The crew do a better job at it than the graffiti does! kappa Make graffiti a separate crime with a 1-minute sentence. Make arrest only warranted for graffiti if the suspect does not cease when asked or is a repeat offender. Create a "three-strikes" system, whereby warnings are issued for the first two incidents of graffiti and an arrest is only warranted on the third incident. Require crewmembers to pay a fine for graffiti based on the amount of property defaced. This fine is paid to the Janitor. If the suspect cannot pay the fine, then an arrest is warranted. Fourth idea actually seems like a cool idea (caveat: money is next to useless), the other three are too much effort that security will probably ignore the graffiti in lieu of other crimes. To an IC observer, it is dickish for someone to coat the station with graffiti. One should not have to put up with someone defacing their department. They should be able to call security and have them stopped. If someone's in your department and isn't authorised, you're perfectly entitled to get security to brig them for trespass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unmovedmover Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) I elaborate on my "delinquency" idea in another post on the wiki development forum. This suggestion would handle graffiti as well as other minor offenses which are not expressed in Space Law. I reproduce that post below. Security often has their hands tied when dealing with minor disputes, as this recent post illustrates.Adding a section on delinquency would fill in some of the gaps in present Space Law. -- Delinquency Security officers have the authority to intervene in disruptive behavior. Examples of disruptive behavior include: making graffiti, loitering, refusing to leave a queue when asked, flooding the radio channels with obscenities, harassment, disrupting a civil gathering, etc. Officers are permitted to stop the disruptive behavior, however, delinquents should not be punished unless they have committed a crime. Depending on the situation, intervening can range from talking with the delinquent to escorting them to a different location. Officers should be forbearing in their treatment of delinquents. If a delinquent refuses to cooperate, officers are permitted to arrest and take them to the brig. Delinquents may be held in the brig for up to one minute. Standard brig procedures apply during this time. -- Graffiti is a nuisance, yes, but it has no IC effect other than to look ugly. The crew do a better job at it than the graffiti does! kappa The crew do not scatter their debris across the station with the intent of defacement. Messes caused by the crew are accidental or negligent, whereas graffiti is deliberate. I only propose that deliberate defacement, such as the kind displayed in the image below, should be intervenable. Edited August 14, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Spray it with space cleaner or bug a janiborg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousGlob Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Graffiti should not be a crime at all, it literally takes 10 seconds to clean 10 minutes worth of graffiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumiluntti Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 None of the suggested changes make the game any more fun or enjoyable for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 None of the suggested changes make the game any more fun or enjoyable for anyone. But don't sec need TEH POWAH to INFLICT RIGHTEOUS PUNISHMENT? I mean really most of the suggestions around this are just common sense, space law is the law or maybe "just guidelines" but if some is being a shit IC it's sec's duty to do something about it space law or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakers457 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I mean really most of the suggestions around this are just common sense, space law is the law or maybe "just guidelines" but if some is being a shit IC it's sec's duty to do something about it space law or no. Actually, if we don't have anything written down to peg them on. We can't do anything about them being a shit, because then if we do arrest them and make a tenious link to a crime in space law.... We get !!!FUN!!! camp claiming we're powerhungry assholes, and if we don't do anything about the shitter being a general delinquent... then we get told we're being shit? There's a dilemma there. But I usually go with my standard tactic when it comes to 'damned when I do, damned I don't,' which is that I don't, to save energy and let the shitter grief the departments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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