Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Alright, this suggestion was brought up in Discord after I started watching Startrek DS9 for the first time I noticed how common they were. The medical system on SS13 was for the most part mirrored after Startrek. I'd like it if we added more of them and did something to replace the one the CMO has with either an upgraded one with more capacity or more options. When we brought up the idea we thought about making them like the Goon ones that have safety measures included. I feel like syringes are for the most part something that should be used in Virology, Chemist Lab, and Genetics. There's no other reason for them to be used when the hyposprays and autoinjectors are around. I'd like to see this debated and possibly implemented due to how much it'd make life easier for Medical and help make things a little more organized with the way we operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckchan Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 +2 cause I count for 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley29 Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Because giving every medical doctor who has no idea what a Hypospray is or what half the chemicals do in it is a good idea. The CMO's one is intended to be special as it's their job exclusive item, alongside with the compact defib. We don't need to give every medical doctor the ability to waste chemicals because they decided to inject thirty units of X to cure two points of toxin damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Because giving every medical doctor who has no idea what a Hypospray is or what half the chemicals do in it is a good idea. The CMO's one is intended to be special as it's their job exclusive item, alongside with the compact defib. We don't need to give every medical doctor the ability to waste chemicals because they decided to inject thirty units of X to cure two points of toxin damage. That's a rather pessimistic view, you're forgetting that they wouldn't use hyposprays for things like that when you can just use pills. Hyposprays would be for things that need a broader treatment of chemicals to help stabilize a patient, I don't understand why you think that something that's supposed to be so prevalent can't be made unique for the CMO by upping the storage capacity. With the hypospray you can choose what you want to put in it and mix in various drugs that would inject at certain dosages. Which means you'd be careful with it and not have to go through several syringes when you could just use the one hypospray to either treat a patient with a broad spectrum of chems they'd need or a specific one that could be loaded and injected. The syringes have run their course, with Goons code out there and the amount of it that's been ported to Paradise I don't see why something that'd be as useful and enjoyable as this shouldn't be added as well? It's the next logical thing that could be added for Medical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldflame Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 The hypospray is probably the strongest melee weapon on the station, giving one to everyone in med wouldn't end too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 The hypospray is probably the strongest melee weapon on the station, giving one to everyone in med wouldn't end too well. If you have to lower the brute damage it can do then by all means, it's very useful for Medical. Not to mention with the Goon code it apparently has a safety mechanism installed that would prevent harmful chemicals from being added unless emagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 The hypospray is probably the strongest melee weapon on the station, giving one to everyone in med wouldn't end too well. If you have to lower the brute damage it can do then by all means, it's very useful for Medical. Not to mention with the Goon code it apparently has a safety mechanism installed that would prevent harmful chemicals from being added unless emagged. He means it's an unblockable stunner basically. Every click injects 5u of what ever you load up. Ether bottles spawn in medivends, hacked vends have toxins and various other chems can be acquired by nonantags that are lethal or screw you up bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 The hypospray is probably the strongest melee weapon on the station, giving one to everyone in med wouldn't end too well. If you have to lower the brute damage it can do then by all means, it's very useful for Medical. Not to mention with the Goon code it apparently has a safety mechanism installed that would prevent harmful chemicals from being added unless emagged. He means it's an unblockable stunner basically. Every click injects 5u of what ever you load up. Ether bottles spawn in medivends, hacked vends have toxins and various other chems can be acquired by nonantags that are lethal or screw you up bad. We also have Syringe Guns that let us load any syringe we want and hit you farther away. With the Goon hypospray they have safety features that don't allow you to load toxins in to it. Not to mention Antags have a far greater array of things to use then the hypospray. It'd be another thing to deal with for sure, but I imagine a compromise could be reached to help make this easier to live with. I mostly enjoy the hypospray for the simple fact you can make it far more customizable then you could with a regular syringe or even an autoinjector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley29 Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 If you have to lower the brute damage it can do then by all means, it's very useful for Medical. Not to mention with the Goon code it apparently has a safety mechanism installed that would prevent harmful chemicals from being added unless emagged. He means it's an unblockable stunner basically. Every click injects 5u of what ever you load up. Ether bottles spawn in medivends, hacked vends have toxins and various other chems can be acquired by nonantags that are lethal or screw you up bad. We also have Syringe Guns that let us load any syringe we want and hit you farther away. With the Goon hypospray they have safety features that don't allow you to load toxins in to it. Not to mention Antags have a far greater array of things to use then the hypospray. It'd be another thing to deal with for sure, but I imagine a compromise could be reached to help make this easier to live with. I mostly enjoy the hypospray for the simple fact you can make it far more customizable then you could with a regular syringe or even an autoinjector. Get found with a syringe gun without a valid reason and appropriate authorization you will be brigged. And that emag function to remove any safeties sounds like something thats painful to deal with, someone coming up to you at full speed? Just inject five units of sarin and wait for them to start passing out. The wait for an injection is not long and its perfectly reasonable, and before you pull the "Parapen is silent and can be filled with any chemicals" style of argument, remember that the parapen has one use, while an emag has many many more uses, such as emaging drones, doors and even some computers can be emagged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Get found with a syringe gun without a valid reason and appropriate authorization you will be brigged. And that emag function to remove any safeties sounds like something thats painful to deal with, someone coming up to you at full speed? Just inject five units of sarin and wait for them to start passing out. The wait for an injection is not long and its perfectly reasonable, and before you pull the "Parapen is silent and can be filled with any chemicals" style of argument, remember that the parapen has one use, while an emag has many many more uses, such as emaging drones, doors and even some computers can be emagged I'm not gonna doubt that, but I also believe the potential benefits far outweigh the risks. I think a compromise could be reached to where the hypospray could be made less powerful but just as useful in terms of storage capacity and the ability to mix drugs. That's the primary reason I want the hypospray, it'd allow us to inject a myriad of lower chems together to help stop all matter of damage and stabilize the patient long enough to get to surgery. As I have stated before I am looking for a reasonable solution for this, if the coders want to add a delay for the injection like you would with syringes but not as long that'd be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 giving every medical doctor the most versatile and powerful melee weapon in the game Yeah, no; this is a CMO only item for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightedskull Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I'll try and make this as unbiased as I can (plays CMO) : The Hypospray is an extremely powerful tool, for good and evil. If they were standard then majority of other medical assets would be pointless. Syringes would be pointless, sleepers would be devalued even more. They will get stolen and abused, antag or not. It is instant injection without any form of resisting or possibility to react....as a CMO traitor in one round I instantly took down both HoS and Blueshield at the same time with the nifty device. It can devalue traitor items....why even bother with some of them when you can just steal one of the standard hyposprays in medical and load it with literally whatever liquids you get your hands on and effortlessly just inject your target? With enough noise going on it's possible they wouldn't even know it. It will make the jobs of antags so much easier. It's simply too powerful of a tool to freely hand out....someone competent enough and with access to the chem lab and the booze machine could bring down the entire station with just one of these...and you want them standard issue? The balance to the syringe guns is that they are actually treated as guns, by beepsky and protocol so you can't just go waving it around without being put into scrutiny. And that you have to manually load syringes with the chemicals and then into the one-shot device. As was mentioned...the hypospray is the ultimate melee weapon...perma-stuns and quick deaths plus whatever you can imagine to shove in one....instant-death viruses even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 I love how I posted suggestions on how to possibly nerf that and it seems you two didn't read it at all. I said to make it not be instantly injectable but you didn't read that I see. I said to make it the Goon one so it couldn't be loaded with anything nefarious until emagged. I'm all for having it nerfed and letting the CMO one be the upgraded variant that has all the pretty gadgets and options. But the ones that we'd have would primarily be used for what we need. If we said no to every item because it'd be considered the deadliest shit ever then Virology would be gone by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPK Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Hydrosprays are nice, but we really don't need them. Goon's hydrosprays are there because people are dying left and right and MDs need a fast way to administer a whole lot of drugs. Because chemists usually don't make chems, there's a plethora of basic healing chems available, reducing the impact wasteful use has. On Paradise, the only drugs we have in mass supply on round start are the ones found in the vendors. Hydrosprays would chew through a chemist's hard work, if not to mention the annoyance of now having to create important medicines in bottles as well as patches and pills. I don't remember the last time I had a doctor on Paradise work to get me out of crit beyond throwing me in the cryotubes, though. Goon medical is a whole lot more tense in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley29 Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 . I said to make it the Goon one so it couldn't be loaded with anything nefarious until emagged.. Such would make the parapen practically useless, if you can just take one off every medical doctor in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Hydrosprays are nice, but we really don't need them. Goon's hydrosprays are there because people are dying left and right and MDs need a fast way to administer a whole lot of drugs. Because chemists usually don't make chems, there's a plethora of basic healing chems available, reducing the impact wasteful use has. On Paradise, the only drugs we have in mass supply on round start are the ones found in the vendors. Hydrosprays would chew through a chemist's hard work, if not to mention the annoyance of now having to create important medicines in bottles as well as patches and pills. I don't remember the last time I had a doctor on Paradise work to get me out of crit beyond throwing me in the cryotubes, though. Goon medical is a whole lot more tense in that way. The medicines that would be most useful in the Hypospray aren't really that rare. Stuff like Mannitol, Saline-Glucose, and maybe a mild sedative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightedskull Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 If you made a hypospray that would inject without delay then there is no difference with a Syringe besides how much it holds, seriously. And it would be extra taxing on the chemist as was stated earlier. They would need to make even MORE of the same type of stuff in bottles instead of pill/patches instead of focusing on making a variety of medicines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sif Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 If you made a hypospray that would inject without delay then there is no difference with a Syringe besides how much it holds, seriously. And it would be extra taxing on the chemist as was stated earlier. They would need to make even MORE of the same type of stuff in bottles instead of pill/patches instead of focusing on making a variety of medicines. The idea behind me wanting the Hypospray is how in Surgery we have to deal with patients that don't go through cryo or sleepers when shit gets hectic. We have to stabilize them first and get them in and out more speedily than normal. I understand that you guys are apprehensive with the overall idea but I am asking for a back and forth here. As I said earlier I imagine the item wouldn't be immediately added with all sorts of good settings aside from the safety mechanism and a few other details like delay injection part. And the biggest difference between the hypospray and the syringe wouldn't just be capacity it'd be the fact there's less clutter for doctors to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regen Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I want the game to be much easier than it already is, by giving everyone the best medical tool and melee weapon in the game No, this is why players balancing things is horrible, you think it's a good idea, but its not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I don't see what's wrong with a syringe and waiting a few seconds tbh. Chems - whether healing or toxins - are incredibly powerful. 5-10u of the right one at the right time can easily make all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightedskull Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 If you made a hypospray that would inject without delay then there is no difference with a Syringe besides how much it holds, seriously. And it would be extra taxing on the chemist as was stated earlier. They would need to make even MORE of the same type of stuff in bottles instead of pill/patches instead of focusing on making a variety of medicines. The idea behind me wanting the Hypospray is how in Surgery we have to deal with patients that don't go through cryo or sleepers when shit gets hectic. We have to stabilize them first and get them in and out more speedily than normal. I understand that you guys are apprehensive with the overall idea but I am asking for a back and forth here. As I said earlier I imagine the item wouldn't be immediately added with all sorts of good settings aside from the safety mechanism and a few other details like delay injection part. And the biggest difference between the hypospray and the syringe wouldn't just be capacity it'd be the fact there's less clutter for doctors to handle. They should be stabilized BEFORE they get to surgery unless an immediate surgery is needed (internal bleeding/septic organ) so if a MD drags a bleeding lump of a body into surgery it's their incompetency that is a factor there, not the medical equipment or surgeon ( though do remember just because you work in the morgue or are a surgeon doesn't mean you aren't an MD still ) Keep your surgery rooms stocked with a few supplies to handle what gets brought in the event that happens. How would it create less clutter? It'd be one more item that they not only would have to manage but as well as extra syringes to load the thing with the chemicals and...oh there defeats the point of having a hypospray at all...they already have the syringe of the chemicals...so it just creates MORE clutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 I'm going to point out that everyone in station is equipped with a hypospray. It's called an emergency autoinjector. Just add emergency auto-injectors to the nano-meds if you want to increase the prevalence of hyposprays - I don't agree with them having anything more than epinephrine in them anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kluys Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Stabalising a patient means they are in critical which means there SHOULD be a good chance that they die before you can heal them. Please remember that this is a roleplaying game and that dieing is and should be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
improvedname Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Goon ones are fine because they have safety protection on them and purge any harmfull chemical unless emagged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 The problem isn't that it can be used to kill efficiently so much as it is that it heals too efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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