Plotron Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Syndicate = mounted machinegun turrets. Peaceful Vox Raiders (not an oxymoron, kiki!) = mounted disabler beam turrets. Lore-friendly, yes, inviolate for the win! Validhunters, shits, assholes, boarding Voxxy ship while Vox are away on the station negotating with command. Apply disabler beams to prevent human cunts 'n alien shitlords from violating poor Vox and their greentext opportunities. Oh boy, what a mess! As a bonus, add turret control somewhere inside so Vox can decide to be guest-friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTSAM Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 yee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoS Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Yes. All of the yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Yes, this would be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereticChurch Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I don't see any real problems with this. +1 from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdivine Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I would rather have some sorta auto punumbric launchers or something, it fits the Vox weapon scheme and I love the idea of someone floating to steal the ship getting smacked in the face by a teddy bear, flying off from propulsion. Also disablers will keep you there forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldflame Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Boarding the skipjack is part of the game mode and shouldn't be made difficult- if the raiders kidnap someone or steal something, it should be possible to recover Nuke's turret is there because you're not supposed to board the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTSAM Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 That's why you add a button inside of their ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Boarding the skipjack is part of the game mode and shouldn't be made difficult- if the raiders kidnap someone or steal something, it should be possible to recover Nuke's turret is there because you're not supposed to board the ship. That doesn't make sense, if you weren't supposed to board it they'd just have teleporters. The Pod Pilot at the very fucking least should be able to get within line of sight of the nuke ship and not get his pod blown to hell in a matter of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldflame Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Boarding the skipjack is part of the game mode and shouldn't be made difficult- if the raiders kidnap someone or steal something, it should be possible to recover Nuke's turret is there because you're not supposed to board the ship. That doesn't make sense, if you weren't supposed to board it they'd just have teleporters. The Pod Pilot at the very fucking least should be able to get within line of sight of the nuke ship and not get his pod blown to hell in a matter of seconds. Nuke's ship is for opening up the team's entry options and making escaping more engaging than pressing a button, there's no reason for the crew to board it. I do agree that the turrets kill pilots too fast, though. Heist's ship is intended to be the vox's base. They go back and forth from it, and take their stolen goods/people there. If it's made impossible to approach, then the vox become all but above consequences- anything/body they take is theirs for the rest of the round. and they can hide there until the station stop looking for them. Vox should either aim to not invoke the wrath of the crew, or complete their objectives quick and clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Cupcake Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Boarding the skipjack is part of the game mode and shouldn't be made difficult- if the raiders kidnap someone or steal something, it should be possible to recover Nuke's turret is there because you're not supposed to board the ship. That doesn't make sense, if you weren't supposed to board it they'd just have teleporters. The Pod Pilot at the very fucking least should be able to get within line of sight of the nuke ship and not get his pod blown to hell in a matter of seconds. Nuke's ship is for opening up the team's entry options and making escaping more engaging than pressing a button, there's no reason for the crew to board it. I do agree that the turrets kill pilots too fast, though. Heist's ship is intended to be the vox's base. They go back and forth from it, and take their stolen goods/people there. If it's made impossible to approach, then the vox become all but above consequences- anything/body they take is theirs for the rest of the round. and they can hide there until the station stop looking for them. Vox should either aim to not invoke the wrath of the crew, or complete their objectives quick and clean. ... Or possibly leave a guard (which would open up more potential RP ^.^) I concur with Coldflame on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinatacolada Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 +1 to Coldflame, my best traders rounds were where we needed to rescue someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdivine Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I entirely forgot that vox kidnap people. Opps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoS Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Vox should either aim to not invoke the wrath of the crew, or complete their objectives quick and clean. You can be the most peaceful vox that ever existed and in most of my experiences it still results in being murdered because "lol valids". Chances are as soon as someone says there are Vox traders/raiders there's probably already someone in common yelling about how they hate vox and how they should be killed. It's even more frustrating when you do get some of your objectives and then find out that someone raided your ship (or in really griefy cases someone sent it back). Vox don't exactly have a whole lot of anything to enable them to trade/raid well. They have very limited supplies, and a very small team vs the entire crew who have an unlimited supply of weapons and gear. Vox need somewhere that can be safe for them. No one wants to stay on the ship and be bored for the entire round, particularly when you rolled an 'antag' that doesn't even happen that often. Would it really be so much of a problem to have the disablers be able to be turned off from within the ship? You could still capture one of the raiding vox and use their id to get on the ship and turn 'em off that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 *cough* Who the hell said that the turrets are going to be invincible? You could still capture one of the raiding vox and use their id to get on the ship and turn 'em off that way. Since they fire disablers, you can use any offensive tactics that would work against AI's or TComm's turrets. Hell, a simple sec pod with lasers installed would probably do the trick. What about anti-stun chems, eh? I agree with FoS on the nature of Vox rounds, really, and that's what I was trying to say in the first post. Fucking up the Skipjack should not be effortless. It's situations like this that make Vox break their inviolate, because some shitlers find a way inside to fuck everything up, provoking the hell outta poor raiders. At some point less-than-lethal solutions may run out, and that's when you get a massacre. Alternatively we could come up with some kind of a repulsor - a turret that fires harmless beams of kinetic energy, repulsing people without proper equipment. A jetpack would be mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldflame Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The skipjack is already difficult to raid; with disablers, it becomes impossible to raid without an ID/method of dealing with the disablers. The problems with heist as a gamemode don't have anything to do with the skipjack. Disablers on the skipjack will also probably result in an hourt-long stalemate sometimes, with neither side able to advance on the other. If we're talking more about heist in general, the problem is that it's boring. Vox without a kidnap objective have no reason NOT to trade away literally everything they have and leave within the first halfhour; the station has no reason not to trade either, as the round ends (and so does the boring gamemode- the problem is circular). Failing that, Vox will attempt to raid; they can't, they're not properly equipped to, and as such rarely succeed. tl;dr: skipjack is fine, the problem lies elsewhere, disablers will make the problem worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 tl;dr: skipjack is fine, the problem lies elsewhere, disablers will make the problem worse I guess I shouldn't have engaged in this discussion. It was a bait thread, I wasn't even taking it seriously at first. [spoiler2]It seems I have taken the bait myself.[/spoiler2] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenn Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 The skipjack is already difficult to raid; with disablers, it becomes impossible to raid without an ID/method of dealing with the disablers. The problems with heist as a gamemode don't have anything to do with the skipjack. Disablers on the skipjack will also probably result in an hourt-long stalemate sometimes, with neither side able to advance on the other. If we're talking more about heist in general, the problem is that it's boring. Vox without a kidnap objective have no reason NOT to trade away literally everything they have and leave within the first halfhour; the station has no reason not to trade either, as the round ends (and so does the boring gamemode- the problem is circular). Failing that, Vox will attempt to raid; they can't, they're not properly equipped to, and as such rarely succeed. tl;dr: skipjack is fine, the problem lies elsewhere, disablers will make the problem worse If you really feel this way, feel free to make a suggestion thread pertaining to more equipment the Vox would have, within reason and the confines of their inviolate, that they could spawn with. Remember, anything you give them has to be non-lethal in entirety, afaik. No eguns, because lethal setting, no explosives, because people could be hit by the explosion, et cetera. Go on, make a suggestion. As for the disablers idea, I didn't even know you could board the Skipjack until I saw this thread. Maybe test it and balance the firing frequency, and make it as damaging as the egun/taser disablers, not like AI turret electrodes. Jesus, I think everyone imagined AI turrets set to stun when they heard this. Disablers don't ever one and done you! You have a decent chance to react, it takes several disablers to put anyone down. And as aforementioned, there are anti-stun mechanics in the game for the incredibly unrobust (but why would unrobust people board a potentially hostile ship to get into combat and most likely just get captured themselves). I see no reason this couldn't go through after the map-freeze is lifted from the github. Again, keeping in mind the fire rate and stun damage of disablers (4~5 shots to bring down a single person) versus number (2~3 at absolute maximum, and 3 only if they could be spaced out enough to never all be firing at the same time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fludd12 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 To Plotron: I'm going to be honest here, I've seen maybe two rounds where voxen actually managed to be raiders and not traiders. And even then, the skipjack is sucked clean dry and catapulted into the sun to the asteroid about half the time, at least from personal experience. Anything to stop the odd greytide with a little too much spare time and perflurodecalin from screwing over an already difficult and frequently disliked role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 If you really feel this way, feel free to make a suggestion thread pertaining to more equipment the Vox would have, within reason and the confines of their inviolate, that they could spawn with. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5558 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The skipjack is already difficult to raid; with disablers, it becomes impossible to raid without an ID/method of dealing with the disablers. The problems with heist as a gamemode don't have anything to do with the skipjack. Disablers on the skipjack will also probably result in an hourt-long stalemate sometimes, with neither side able to advance on the other. If we're talking more about heist in general, the problem is that it's boring. Vox without a kidnap objective have no reason NOT to trade away literally everything they have and leave within the first halfhour; the station has no reason not to trade either, as the round ends (and so does the boring gamemode- the problem is circular). Failing that, Vox will attempt to raid; they can't, they're not properly equipped to, and as such rarely succeed. tl;dr: skipjack is fine, the problem lies elsewhere, disablers will make the problem worse On what server do you play on that the skipjack is difficult to raid? Any one with a space suit can get to it. Anyone can push the button on the airlock. Anyone can waltz right in, steal all their ship and then flood the entire thing with the plasma canister to flood the place with toxins. And yes, on more than a few occasions the shuttle has been moved or sent away from the station for keks. The suggestion isn't asking for the skipjack to be able to do strafing runs on the station and kill people. All that is being asked is something more effective than a 'Private Property, Keep out skreks" sign to stop the valid salads from grabbing a softsuit and breaking out a window so they can 'explore' space and metagame of the 5 possible spots the skipjack can park. 2 (possibly 3) parts of the Involate even support Vox defenses on the ship. Waste as little as necessary.Preserve materials. and to a lesser extent Adapt and expand to all circumstances. you expect me to believe the greedy species that will do anything and everything they can to get fleece, steal and acquire all the shinies they can get would leave their ship parked practically next to their current target without locking the door or leaving a guard dog of some sorts behind to protect all their other loot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 you expect me to believe the greedy species that will do anything and everything they can to get fleece, steal and acquire all the shinies they can get would leave their ship parked practically next to their current target without locking the door or leaving a guard dog of some sorts behind to protect all their other loot? And if some Vox remain on the ship to protect it, the rest is quickly accused of having a stealth party raid the station during negotiations. Quite often Command demands to have all 5 Vox in one place. Meanwhile bad shit happens in spess because of validhunters, leaving Security/Command/Raiders helpless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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