Earthdivine Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 So I was discussing with an admin about Loyalty implants and how utter defeating it is to get one. How would it be if you could do something like harm intent your head to try and "yank it out", like "Pubby McGreifer is screaming and clawing at their head, tearing the flesh!" Doing so would cause massive bleed and brute damage, so you realistically couldn't survive without help, and there could be a chance to fail and have you scream something like "I AM TRYING TO REMOVE MY IMPLANT!!", while still dealing the damage. I mean, we already have the missing scalp sprite too, its perfect :v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone White Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Loyalty implants exist for the reason of allowing defeated antagonists to continue playing in the gamemode. Essentially, this idea is removing this effect, and allowing them the possibility to return to an antagonist role whilst not an antagonist. I would call this self-antagging personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumiluntti Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Why would anyone with loyality implant try to remove the said implant? NT gave them a wonderful gift of enlightenment, it's the second best thing ever, only second to glorious Nanotrasen itself! ALL GLORY TO NANOTRASEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdivine Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Loyalty implants exist for the reason of allowing defeated antagonists to continue playing in the gamemode. Essentially, this idea is removing this effect, and allowing them the possibility to return to an antagonist role whilst not an antagonist. I would call this self-antagging personally. Aye, I'll admit I'm starting to get annoyed by everyone's approach to Implant everyone if you think they're an antag, particularly because it's the safest and surefire way to find out. I realize that we, as the admins, are supposed to monitor and keep this in watch but when it becomes a community mentality it's hard to stop. I'd like for something to make them less reliable at least. I also just realized this could theoretically give Security and Captain a way out of being loyal. Debunking this idea but i'll leave the topic open to see if someone has a better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Dobbins Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think I was a ling once and I didn't go along with an implant. I exploded "due to Loyalty implant overload" (admins). For that reason I would say that getting a loyalty implant removed would be smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streaky Haddock Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I think it depends on whether you think the implant is a physical inhibitor which allows you to think anti-nt thoughts and prevent you from acting on them, or if you think it's a mental inhibitor that makes you think NT is the greatest thing ever and space law is the rule of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Why not have advanced loyalty implants for security and the captain, which can't be pulled out. Normal ones are stored in the armoury, and can only be pulled out in the first thirty seconds of being implanted, as it takes that long to manifest inside the player. Edited January 26, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheakhan Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 So... what I get out of this is: "I'd rather be executed immediately than loyalty implanted." Here's the thing: Currently Space Law has ONE punishment for treason: Death. That's it, end of story. Traitors get executed. Vampires count as traitors, Changelings count as traitors, Wizards are traitors. All of them get death. The loyalty implant isn't supposed to be a punishment for treason, it's a method of forcing your secrets out prior to your execution. If you're captured on evidence and loyalty implanted, your round is already over and the fact that loyalty implants are supposed to be used to allow antags who fail to continue playing is ridiculous with our current space law. Or more precisely, they aren't supposed to be used to allow antags to keep playing. If they were, then Space Law and SOP would say as much. It's like giving a quadriplegic running shoes, a concept without any traction. All of that aside, EVEN if space law was adjusted to allow loyalty implanted antags to live, the implant itself would prevent you from removing it. (Not that half of the people who play security ever follow Space Law when it comes to punishing antags anyway, which should really start being harshly scrutinized.) So, you want Space Law changed AND Loyalty Implants nerfed? Because you don't like being implanted for the few minutes leading up to your execution? (Assuming, once again, that security and command do what Space Law says they should do?) Antag is a get good or get dead sort of deal. If you don't like being implanted, don't get caught. All of that aside, if we changed Space Law to allow Loyalty Implanting instead of execution for treason we would have to guarantee that Loyalty Implants were reliable. Let's face it, if you were the Captain would you choose to Execute the jackass who just tried to shoot you in the face, or would you stuff a fail-prone, easily removed Loyalty Implant in his skull? I'll give you a hint: Natural selection would remove the latter sort of mindset from the gene pool fairly quickly. So if loyalty implants were made an alternative to execution, AND made easily circumvented, nobody would use them. If they were made an alternative to execution and incredibly difficult to circumvent you wouldn't get what you want to the same degree and while I can't speak for others, I still wouldn't use them. Why opt for the almost sure solution when you have the certainty of execution as your other choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I agree, loyalty implant should mean freedom. Edited January 26, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Ban Jhankri Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Why would anyone with loyality implant try to remove the said implant? NT gave them a wonderful gift of enlightenment, it's the second best thing ever, only second to glorious Nanotrasen itself! ALL GLORY TO NANOTRASEN! Loyalty implants? Great. Gives all the more reason to do some heavy investigation covertly, and having all the evidence needed to implant (which by the way is the same as the death sentence, a pretty big deal) and it is icing on the cake when you have a concrete debate and literally everything proved, and then implantation. Shitcurity that implants or executes for finding a piece of synditech on somebody with no evidence of use or where it came from, or just general states of heightened paranoia? Shitcurity. Loyalty implants goes for some pretty interesting RP, shitcurity or executions do not. Loyalty implants are not broken, shitcurity is. Removing an implant from your body? What would be the point of implantation, then? Also, neural implants? Wouldn't ripping into your head and brain deal massive amounts of brain damage/sight, hearing loss/ coma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Ban Jhankri Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Also, not sure where it is, but I am sure it exists and I didn't make it up, but it is probably somewhere really obscure and out of place like a job guide or SOP, instead of space law, but it explains the major punishments and how they compare, and what should be done. If I remember correctly, implant if the player would actually be useful, if not, then prison rock, if not, cyborg, if not, exile, if not, perma, if not, execution. Something like that. I will high five somebody who can finds it, if it exists. Might be a bay/tg/vg something specific, not sure where I got the idea from, but I am pretty sure I have seen something like that. Also, the player being punished has the choice of how they are to be executed if they are not being a useless sack of shit, but a useless sack of shit enough to get executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I thought we had that too. Might have been removed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheakhan Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If it does exist, it should be in the Space Law page. Anywhere else is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheakhan Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Idiot. It IS. "Loyalty Implants: Can be applied instead of permabrigging or execution. For any lesser charge, consent is required." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It's not. Please fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streaky Haddock Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Idiot. It IS."Loyalty Implants: Can be applied instead of permabrigging or execution. For any lesser charge, consent is required." I KNOW i've read this SOMEWHERE but I can't find it anywhere in space law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone White Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streaky Haddock Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Ah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fj45 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Loyalty imps are possibly the biggest cop-out for sentencing, in my opinion. Most people don't roleplay them as is, and most people in the brig are not antags. Probably about 50% of the people I've seen justly executed were self-antagging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheakhan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If I was captain and had to decide punishment, I'd go execution every time. Don't take any chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) If I was captain and had to decide punishment, I'd go execution every time.Don't take any chances. We prefer to keep people in the game, thank you very much. Edited January 27, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone White Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I only loyalty implant when it's according to the law, which is very rarely indeed. I follow Space Law because I want antagonists to "play against" space law, do their time, get released, then rush to finish their objectives. As long as the antagonist is covert, it actually increases their chance of getting a temporary sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdivine Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 We prefer to keep people in the game, thank you very much. Indeed, that's what loyalty implants are meant to be for. However, as admins we see a lot of stuff you guys don't, and what I'm seeing people using it as an antag checker. I've seen a captain implant two vampires then throw them into Permabrig and forget them. Today we had a guy implant a ling to find out if he was one then incinerated him. The implants aren't meant to keep antags in check, they're meant to help keep them playing but people are throwing them in the antags so they can get rid of them without worry of them escaping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone White Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I received some word that some work is being done on the changeling gamemode, though I don't know what exactly. I do agree with you E, that using loyalty implants as antag checkers is the problem here, and not the implants or their effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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