[make tajarans/unathi/vulps able to eat bees]

As memey as this is, I actually love this idea. It sounds like exactly like one of the obscure, unneeded mechanics that make SS13 so fun to play.

It could even force them to have a lisp or something for a while too, just to add insult to injury.

[remove sling bones or add a way for slings to heal broken bones]

Code wise, it would actually be pretty easy to implement both of those ideas. With the simplest being to just copy over the 'No bones' feature from Slime People to Shadowlings. Having a 'Repair bones' action button would also work, although it would add to the usual action button clutter that some antags get already.

The issue here is that https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/15690 exists as a PR to remove Shadowlings entirely. While that PR hasn't been updated for almost three months now, it was posted by a maintainer, so it has a pretty high chance of getting merged. (Although likely not any time soon as Fox is busy at the moment.)

Any PRs to change Shadowlings while that's open will most likely just get shot down, or kept in limbo until the 'Shadowling removal' PR is either merged or closed. So while Shadowlings not having to worry about broken bones is a good idea in theory, you'll probably just have to stick with surgery from thralls for now.

[Cult balance]

TG has a cult leader system which could probably be ported over relatively easily.

My main worry with that is that the same few "robust" people will keep getting chosen as the leader every round, and anyone who's not as popular will just get passed over.

From what I've seen from TG, that is what happens almost every time, so it's not an unfounded concern.

[Cult balance]

Might add some more later, but here's some of the stuff from my list:

 

Too strong:

• Flagellant Robes.
• Mirror shields.
• Wraiths vs the AI.
• Cult ascension threshold. (Cultists usually get halos way too late)

Might need tweaking:

• Non-sharpened cult blade damage.
• Stun spell mute duration.
• Cult ghosts from manifest runes.
• Constructs (Once they've died, the player is permanently out of the round).
• Observer participation in the round.
• Wraits after they've killed the AI. (Nothing to do, really)
• Soulstone shades. (Currently useless, maybe could return to the soulstone if they die)

Too weak:

• Cultist summoning. (Very easy to counter if you're paying attention)
• Nar'sie rune. (Can be denied with a single cleaning grenade, or space cleaner bottle)
• Holy soulstones. (Maybe let the chaplain bless runed metal for a construct shell)
• Blood spear. (Cool as it is, it's overshadowed by other items)

[AA's AMAA]

How's your coffee addiction going, if that's not too personal a question?

[Character options]

Oh, should probably mention the outcome of that PR here as well.

I got a system working with separate options for Gender and Body like you suggested there (as shown in the PR's images), but in the end it was closed due to the worry that people would end up either mocking players who use the system, or making over the top transgender caricatures specifically to upset people.

While I do believe that anyone who would act like that doesn't belong on the server in the first place, it would require extra administrative action. And given the admin shortage there sometimes is already I can definitely understand the concerns. (This isn't the only reason of course, just my own take on it.)

 

You can view all of the discussion around the issue on the PR itself if you're interested, as well as one reply on the Discord server which I've attached as an image here. All of this is fully public already so I don't see any harm in sharing it.

Just for the record, I do agree that closing the PR was probably for the best. It's just a shame that it had to get to that point.

Spoiler

 

[Did the server just go down?]

The server is still up, at around 120 players. The link is here if you can't find it on the hub for whatever reason:

byond://byond.paradisestation.org:6666

Paste that into the 'Open Location' thing here and you should connect.

[Shipbreaker Job]

This has already been suggested actually, believe it or not: 

The biggest issue really is that it would take a lot of work to implement it. It's possible, but someone needs to be pretty dedicated to the idea.

[Character options]

Posted a PR adding the existing system to all species rather than just a subset of them. This does mean that anyone who picks the 'Genderless' option will use the female sprite by default, but I personally don't see that as too big of an issue. This is more for the pronouns than anything else at the moment.

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/16007

[Character options]

Diona, Drask, Greys, IPCs, and Vox all have a 'Genderless' option in the character creator, so code wise at least it would be very easy to add it to the other species too.

[Disable Nightshift Lighting in server settings]

40 minutes ago, AffectedArc07 said:

Performance tanks when there are lighting updates, not by it being static. It takes a second for the entire station to go dark or light, but once it is in that state the atoms arent being modified, as they keep their colour values.

Isn't that exactly what he said?

"There are performance issues around enabling and disabling it."

vs

"It being enabled or disabled causes performance issues."

[Shit People on Discord Says]

[It happened again]

Happened multiple times recently, three or four that I know of.

[Server Alignment chart]

Hmmmm....

[Drask Appreciation Thread!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~]

Drask are all pretty cool guys.

[Adming Complaint - Fraility]

Your ckey (Byond username): SabreML
Your Discord name (if applicable): SabreML#3461

Involvment in incident: One of the Vox players originally "Harassing" the player in front of the bridge, and someone who was killed twice by the "Hunters".

Agreement/disagreement with described events:

Personally, I disagree that an admin complaint is warranted here. It was a pretty extreme reaction admin wise, but even as someone who was attacked and killed multiple times, I still believe that it made the round more interesting and enjoyable for all parties involved. (Even if only in hindsight.)

---

I can't recall exactly what started the whole thing, but the "Harassment" issue was around 7 or 8 players agreeing over comms to "Teach Shesi a lesson", and then standing in a circle around him in front of the bridge, and sneezing for about 2-3 minutes. Obviously the chat window was going pretty quickly at the time but I can't remember him telling us to stop at any point during that. Only at the end did he say "You'll regret this" (or something along those lines), and after that the crowd started to disperse. Had he actually been uncomfortable then he could've tried to get away from his bridgewatching spot rather than standing still, talked it out IC, or even LOOC'd us to stop. So OOC consent was assumed.

A minute or so after that Shesi asked over comms for all of the involved Vox to come back to the bridge so that he could "Apologise" for his actions. This was pretty obviously a trap but I came over to watch anyway out of curiosity. Then the whole 'Penetrator Sniper' thing happened, as shown in the first screenshot above.

---

I assumed at the time that @MrSynnester (Shesi) had set this up with another admin via asay as revenge for the sneezing incident, and lured the players in once it was all ready. This view was reinforced by the fact that:

1. Earlier in the round one of the admins said in OOC that people should "Say I in looc for a surprise", and then lightning bolted all players who did so. This indicated to me that the sniper thing was more of that kind of playful admemery, rather than a substitute for a full admin warning as Fraility is saying.
2. The "You'll regret this" quote, and the fact that this was said immediately following the first shot: 
3. Shesi claimed (IC) responsibility for all following events and 'Hunters', by his own admission.

Spoiler

4 hours ago, Fraility said:

There appears to be two separate incidents. The first where I spawned in and shot a line of Vox was because at the time I observed around nine Vox all harassing another player in front of the bridge which is unacceptable. However rather then private messaging nine separate people about harassing one player and issuing warnings I choose to do it in a what appeared to be more 'comical' fashion.  By the time I arrived I some of the Vox had dispersed however there was still approximately five left so I shot the three in the line that were still around that player. I returned to arrivals and dusted but was seen by a security officer doing so. It was not dusting because I got caught.  

 

The quoted paragraph above implies that Fraility saw a player being harassed in front of the bridge, and without any communication with said player (who is also an admin) decided to solve it in this way.

As I said at the start, I don't have any issues with the event as a whole. From my perspective it was very exciting and led to an interesting character development thing. I just find it hard to believe that it wasn't coordinated between the two active admins at the time as a kind of IC 'payback' thing, considering that both were heavily involved from the start.

---

Edit: Just wanted to reiterate that this post wasn't meant as an agreement or disagreement with the admin complaint. But more as another perspective on the events.

[Screenshot thread!]

Never forget the horrors of April 1st, 2021.

[On the subject of Misunderstandings]

13 hours ago, necaladun said:

But this generally requires you message us first - we can't be expected to read every single discord channel, PR, forum thread, etc.

I generally try to keep away from messaging people about things I disagree with in order to avoid coming across as whiney or harassing, but something like this thread could have probably been circumvented entirely if I'd clarified via PM, or something along those lines. I'll definitely keep this in mind for the future either way.

 

---

 

I agree with everything else stated here really, though I'd still like to believe that the group who are taking this all too far are the minority. Maybe a very vocal minority, but still.

Since all of my initial concerns have been resolved by this point, I suppose I can only ask that it's passed on to Spark and anyone else who may have got the wrong impression, as I'm unsure if they're aware of this post or not.

I really don't want there to be any animosity between myself and the admin team, especially if it's over something as simple as a phrasing error.

[On the subject of Misunderstandings]

Ah.

Okay that's fair enough then.

[On the subject of Misunderstandings]

6 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

How else am I meant to interpret this other than "I'm going to write an AC on you unless this is clarified". Of course I am going to feel threatened in this scenario, especially after closing a PR which you were very enthusiastic over. 

 

6 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

Again, I do not see any other way to interpret this other than "I'm going to write an AC on you unless this is clarified". Venting isn't a problem (hell I do it way too much myself). Wording things in a way that makes people worry about having complaints written about them however, is a problem, and I am still displeased.

 

6 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

...but I still believe my reaction wasn't unjustified.

I completely agree that it came across that way and that you were well within your rights to be concerned about it. The main point of this post really was to (hopefully) explain what I had meant to say, since Spark seems to have taken it at face value and other admins may have done the same. (Which again is fair enough but... yeah)

-=-=-=It's [ hr ] without any spaces=-=-=-

6 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

however the sprite overhaul isn't something that was badly communicated. A post was made in development news, and this had been discussed in head/maintainer channels prior.

Personally, all I had heard before the #development-news announcement was the occasional "This sprite really needs an upgrade" around once a week maybe in the #spriting channel, so the massive project to suddenly update all of the sprites came as a bit of a shock.

Spoiler

I had assumed that "This has been discussed on-again and off-again for over a year now" meant discussion on the staff channels, but I can remember thinking at the time that it felt a lot like "Well it's been discussed on the private server, so clearly everyone knows it's coming". Even just adding '...over a year now between staff members,' would have helped a lot to reduce the frustration that came from the seemingly unintentional lack of information.

Now that I've had a chance to actually consider it though, I agree that getting the majority of the game sprites up to a common baseline and then going from there is the best way forwards. Even if I do still dislike the look of some of the stuff from TG.

-=-=-=It's [ hr ] without any spaces=-=-=-

6 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

I wont speak too much on this one since it doesn't really concern me, but when we have people preparing to brigade PRs with mass dislikes, and people preparing to make IC protests over a PR being closed, we will raise some eyebrows towards anyone involved in these conversations, which you yourself were. 

In the example image posted for that I felt at the time that the 'Room atmosphere' (is that a thing?) was more joking/sarcastic than anything else, so I went along with it. (Hence the strikethrough on my own comment.)

This may help for some context. I've added some inconspicuous red arrows to point to the things that gave me that impression and also blurred the names for the same reason as you, with the numbers corresponding to different people:

Spoiler

(Also I'll point out that this is only about an hour after the PR was closed, so people are still a bit salty in general)

 

6 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

You cannot declare being unaware of a situation when you are actively involved in its discussion. 

Looking at it now I will admit that some of the other people in the conversation might have been taking it all seriously, but I still stand by my initial assumption that nobody was actually going to follow through with anything suggested. (If anyone actually did then please let me know because they are just making things worse for everyone)

 

Regarding the PR spamming thing, I still can't think of any instances of it happening. I'd appreciate another screenshot showing it or discussion of it if possible.

If that was referring to the breathing tube PR then I certainly wouldn't call it 'Spam' by any means. Of everyone who commented on the PR there's only one person in support of it who I can't verify as a fully active player on Paradise, and that may even be because this person just decided to comment of their own accord.

Edit: Looked into it and said person is actually on both discord servers, but I can at least still confirm that they're an active player on Para (Target demographic and not just a random).

Spoiler

As for the ratings on the PR, I will admit that I don't actually recognise a few of these names, and many may not actually play on the server at all. Despite that the number of likes never went above that of the dislikes, and it could even be argued that there was disingenuous voting on both sides of the argument. (Even if maybe not equal amounts (If at all))

PR Ratings:

Spoiler

Ratings on a comment explaining the lack of database changes:

Spoiler

Personally I can't see any reason for disliking this comment, since it doesn't mention the actual contents of the PR even once. And I also don't recognise the name.

-=-=-=It's [ hr ] without any spaces=-=-=-

6 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

Everyone makes wording mistakes, its just important that you rectify them. If there was no initial intention of an AC regarding this, then just edit that out and be like "Sorry, didn't mean that". You clarified after the fact later, but I still believe my reaction wasn't unjustified.

I could say that your response had me a bit panicked, or that it never crossed my mind to edit it out, but instead I'll just say that in hindsight there's a lot of things that could have been done better, done differently, or not done at all on both sides throughout this. And to also reiterate that this isn't meant to be an admin complaint against you at all, if anything it's intended as more of an apology.

[On the subject of Misunderstandings]

There's been a lot of misunderstandings in the past couple of days, and in the interest of clearing everything up I figured I would try to explain my side of things.

Also just for the record, this is not an admin complaint. I just felt it would be far easier to post it here rather than PMing a different version of the same events to everyone involved.

---

So to begin with, 'E-MonaRhg' pinged me on discord to ask for some assistance with a PR they were making. (https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/15745)

They had already completed most of the code but there were a few runtime errors and compilation issues which I helped with, as well as verifying that there wouldn't be any SQL changes needed to the server database. This was not my code being passed off as theirs, I just helped optimise it.

Spoiler

Evidence:

Spoiler

 

While the PR was open I attempted to argue in favour of it and generally tried to advocate for it being considered. Of course this didn't get anywhere, but I still felt obligated to do so. If only because I had helped to make it happen.

---

The PR was opened on Mar 21, 2021, 7:14 PM GMT, and closed on Mar 22, 2021, 7:11 PM GMT for a total time of just under 24 hours open.

In hindsight three minutes early really isn't anything to complain about, but at the time I thought that it had been open for far less than that. Maybe 14 hours or so. (I definitely should have checked, but it honestly didn't occur to me at the time.)

Spoiler

Maintainer instructions

• Do not self-merge; this refers to the practice of opening a pull request, then merging it yourself. A different maintainer must review and merge your pull request, no matter how trivial. This is to ensure quality.
  • A subset of this instruction: Do not push directly to the repository, always make a pull request.
• Wait for the CI build to complete. If it fails, the pull request may only be merged if there is a very good reason (example: fixing the CI configuration).
• Pull requests labeled as bugfixes and refactors may be merged as soon as they are reviewed.
• The shortest waiting period for -any- feature or balancing altering pull request is 24 hours, to allow other coders and the community time to discuss the proposed changes.
• If the discussion is active, or the change is controversial, the pull request is to be put on hold until a consensus is reached.
• To keep commit history easy to navigate for future contributors (e.g. Git Blame), squash merge is to be preferred to normal merge where suitable. Ensure that the squashed commit name is easy to understand and read. Modify it if needed.

Since I was under the impression that the Maintainer guidelines had possibly been broken in error, I pinged @AffectedArc07 on discord in order to check if they only applied to merging PRs or closing them too.

Evidence:

Spoiler

 

The comment that caused the misunderstanding was the last of those, specifically the 'Admin complaint' part.

In hindsight I worded it really badly, but that was genuinely not intended as a threat, insult, or anything of the sort.

---

Earlier this month I was feeling very burned out due to the consistent lack of communication between the server staff team and the general community, with the very sudden TG sprite overhaul being the tipping point.

Recognising that I was starting to sound pretty salty when talking about Admins and Maintainers I went onto #mentor-chat so that, to be honest, I could maybe vent about some of the issues that had been building up.

This decision was primarily based on this pinned message by Ansari (shown below), but I decided that it would be best not to bother them specifically with it since:

1. They're a Maintainer now and were probably busy in some way.
2. They hadn't been particularly active recently, and I assumed this was due to some sort of IRL issue they were dealing with.

Spoiler

Spoiler

At the suggestion of Meow19 I started writing up a Half-vent Half-Admin Complaint message to @Shockpoint , since I'd had prior communication with them during the Mentor application process. (Also ranting about the staff team on #mentor-chat would've been a pretty bad idea in general.)

Final message sent to Shock, censored since a lot of it honestly doesn't need to be public:

Spoiler

 

---

 

Spoiler

What I was trying (and very badly failing) to say in the first message was that I didn't want there to be any more things hanging over my head that I would end up stressing about.

I was worried that if I didn't verify that it was all within the rules, I would keep thinking about it until, inevitably, something happens which is the metaphorical 'Straw that broke the camel's back', and I end up venting about everything to Shock again.

So to summarise, what I was trying to say there was that I wanted to clear up my confusion about the matter in order to avoid any misunderstandings which might lead to disfavour or even resentment. Obviously though, this had the exact opposite effect.

---

I had assumed that I had explained my meaning well enough in the subsequent messages but apparently I was wrong, since a few hours ago I received this message from @Spacemanspark on the 'Vox balance issues' thread:

(https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/20465-vox-balance-issues/)

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

I won't try to argue for the rest of that response or Neca's one since it's pretty off topic, but please believe me when I say that I was not aware of any IC metagrudging or PR spamming that was/is going on. The point about headmins being harassed in PMs is especially stupid to do, since as Spark said it completely invalidates any actually well thought-out arguments on the subject.

---

I could keep going on with justifications, explanations and evidence but even just writing this much has honestly taken a lot out of me.

I do have issues with some of the staff team, and certainly a lot of conflicting opinions, but I would never go so far as to insult or threaten anyone. Sometimes I just have trouble with words and formatting, and whatever I was trying to convey gets lost in translation.

Honestly if there's any issues that someone has with me personally I invite them to say so. Maybe it will just be a misunderstanding like this, or maybe I'll end up apologising for something I said or did. Either way it's probably better to get it out there than to have it degrade your opinion of someone.

 

This is by far the longest thing I've ever written in any context (In one go), so please let me know if I made any mistakes, need to expand upon a point, or anything like that. I've played over 1100 hours now on Paradise and I really don't want the rest of my experience to be tainted by any of this.

[Vox balance issues.]

This'll probably be my last post on here (For a while anyway) since I seem to be spamming the thread, but I just wanted to clarify a couple of things from my own perspective:

Quote

Of all the racial cliques I've seen, the current main Vox clique is one of the most toxic, hence the sheer number of bans handed out. I don't particularly care what the self-appointed gatekeepers of the Vox think, based on how myself and the staff team have been treated by them, the lies spread, accusations of "promoting racism", and other such nonsense.

While I'm definitely aware of the surprising number of banned Vox players, I personally have never had a bad experience with one ingame. Maybe I got lucky, or it's a timezone thing, or maybe the bans have just removed all of the people causing problems, but having nothing but good experiences with Vox players (Chikitita, Kikeri, Kar-Ski) definitely makes me biased here.

 

Quote

Our most recent overhaul of Vox (when spaceproof was removed) resulting in a pretty disappointing reaction from the "community". Being that I'm being told of efforts to brigade and mass-downvote PRs on the github and protest OOC while in the IC environment, I'm not really eager to enable people for acting in such bad-faith.

 

...

 

...or mass-downvoting other PRs in protest

In my opinion, the actions of (presumably) now banned players from one and a half years ago shouldn't be taken as a reason to ignore the complaints of newer players, or those who stayed out of the issue.

Many people seem to believe that tweaking or buffing Vox is inherently a bad thing because "Metaclique" or "Vox bad". I'm not trying to claim that you are one of these people but as I said above I've never actually seen the clique myself, so from my point of view it does just seem a bit unfair to the remaining people that I have seen.

For the github brigading point: While attempted vote manipulation is obviously not a good thing, mass upvotes or downvotes wouldn't change anything either way since community feedback isn't taken into account when deciding the outcome of a PR.

Spoiler

Closed PR:

Merged PR:

(Edit: This last point wasn't intended to be disingenuous, it's just what I presumed was the case from my experience on the github.)

(Edit Edit: The first edit also wasn't an attempt to start something, please don't take it that way.)

[Vox balance issues.]

40 minutes ago, Kyet said:

Take our current vox population.

Now give them an excuse to drink everything in the bar.

Improvement?

Well... Yes. I think it would be.

More people drinking in the bar means more talking and roleplaying, more getting to know each other, learning people's backstories, that sort of thing. Even if they only talk to ask for another drink they'd still be interacting socially.

I also don't think that being intolerant to alcohol would make people more likely to go to the bar. If anything I think people would be less likely to turn up since they're not able to get drunk (Or at least, have to try really hard to get drunk).

[Vox balance issues.]

(Somewhat off-topic from the main document, but I figured this would be the best place to post this.) (Also yes I double posted, sue me.)

 

I've compiled a (somewhat) comprehensive list of all unique features that the different species get in order to hopefully better explain what is, personally, my biggest issue with the current species balancing.

This isn't meant to be a list of all buffs or maluses, just the things that one species can do that no others can.

 

Full list: (Spoiler'd because it's big)

Spoiler

Humans:

• Nothing unique, but that's the whole point.

Tajaran:

• Auto-hiss R's.

Vulpkanin:

• Nothing unique.

Unathi:

• Auto-hiss S's and X's.
• Tail spin.

Skrell:

• Headpocket.
• Extreme Alcohol intolerance.

Diona:

• Passive healing from light sources.
• Extra damage from plant killer and goats.

Slime People:

• Slime jelly.
• Slime core.
• Less organs.
• Regrowing limbs.
• No bones.

Vox:

• Immune to organ decay. (Debatable, argued against below.)

Drask:

• Auto-hiss O's, U's, and M's.
• Heart located in the head.
• Soap eating.
• Immunity to cold temperatures.
• Healing from cooled internals.

Grey:

• Telepathy.
• Grey metacomms psionic communication.
• Wingdings/Translator.
• Sulphuric acid/Water thing.

IPC:

• Too many to list, not counting anything from here in the rest of the list.

Kidan:

• Auto-hiss Z's, V's, and S's.
• In-built light source.
• In-built mining scanner.
• Extra damage from pest spray.
• 50% hungrier.

Plasmamen:

• Auto-hiss S's.
• Enviro-suit/Combusting in air.
• No blood.
• Immune to radiation.
• Inbuilt welding goggles.
• Healing from plasma dust.

I will say that Tajaran are in need of a species rework far more than Vox, they don't even have any emotes. I can't comment on Vulpkanin since I've never played them but I personally haven't heard any Vulp mains complaining about the balancing.

Anyway, assuming that I didn't miss anything, Vox and Tajaran are tied for second to last place for the lowest number of unique species features. Despite one of them being a default species and one being a 45 Karma Point Unlock which you would expect to be on the same level as Slime People, Drask, Grey, IPCs, Kidan and Plasmamen.

On top of that, the single thing Vox do have is objectively useless. If a Vox has been dead for more than five minutes they'll need Strange Reagent in order to be revived. Strange Reagent, of course, having the effect of rotting every organ in your body when used, internal and extenal. (10% chance for every organ after being dead for 5ish minutes, 20% after 10ish minutes, etc.) 

Spoiler

var/necrosis_prob = 40 * min((20 MINUTES), max((time_dead - (1 MINUTES)), 0)) / ((20 MINUTES) - (1 MINUTES))
for(var/obj/item/organ/O in (H.bodyparts | H.internal_organs))
	// Per non-vital body part:
	// 0% chance of necrosis within 1 minute of death
	// 40% chance of necrosis after 20 minutes of death
	if(!O.vital && prob(necrosis_prob))
		// side effects may include: Organ failure
		O.necrotize(FALSE)
		if(O.status & ORGAN_DEAD)
			O.germ_level = INFECTION_LEVEL_THREE

 

To clarify, I'm not suggesting Vox buffs or Vox nerfs or anything like that. Just some sort of unique gameplay feature for the species. The only thing they have going for them is the self-imposed 'accent' and the general community. (Both of which are apparently bad things, and are unrelated to gameplay.)

To use a recent example of what I mean, silent footsteps. I won't get into that whole debate again but removing that feature also removed the only real 'Exclusive Vox feature', since the 'no decay' thing really doesn't count.

[Vox balance issues.]

I guess I'll start with a simple one:

Quote

Alcohol intolerance. ?????????? Why does this exist???????????

Personally I'd like to see the exact opposite of this, maybe even to the level of drinking everything in the bar and barely even getting a buzz.

Vox being short is most likely the reason for them being lightweights at the moment, but they're also an ancient species of Bio-Engineered Space Raptors from space. You could even justify their livers/kidneys/organs in general being specifically resistant to the effects of alcohol. No dehydration issues or anything like that, just goes straight through.

 

Anyway, I just think it'd be pretty funny to see a 3'5" spess bird drinking a whole group of Unathi under the table.