EvadableMoxie

There was a blob round that was going badly. I was the AI (as A.N.G.E.L) At first I tried to help crew escape but then CentComm override me to enforce quarantine. The nuke was armed and everyone was going to die. The Vox Chief engineer (Yakikik-something I think?) came to my satellite and I thought they planned to card me so they could escape to the engineering shuttle. I explained I couldn't allow anyone to leave and they said they didn't plan to leave. I asked why they wanted access to my core, then, and they responded. "Is not want to dies alone." I let them in. We talked for a bit in the minute or before the nuke went off and A.N.G.E.L confessed that they were afraid to die. The CE admitted they were as well, but were glad they weren't doing it alone. We said goodbye to eachother as the nuke detonated.

Ah, you know, I think the reason you're getting an attack and I generally don't is because there is some kind of 'safety' build into borgs. If you try to use the wrong tool on someone as a borg, you can't do it. So a human surgeon can beat someone with a bone setter by using it in the wrong order, a borg can't. That probably is why the menu comes up without an attack for a borg, but causes an attack for an organic surgeon.

It's kind of besides the point if you believe me on this or not because either way it happens to both IPCs and organics, so it's really not a factor. But the info I've told you is correct and easy enough to test and confirm. If it was based on failure chance there should be a chance for it to happen when you start surgery on someone who is awake using a glass shard even on a surgery table. But if you try 100 times you won't have it happen to you, because it's not at all based on failure chance. Test it if you don't believe me.

So you're saying that a doctor looks at a patient and thinks about what surgery they're going to do, and sometimes makes a mistake doing that and stabs them with a scalpel? It's bug. It existed before anesthetic failure chance because it has nothing to do with anesthetic, it has to do with the game recognizing that you're trying to start a surgery. The bug occurs when you try to do surgery on anything other than a surgery table. It'll never happen on a surgical table even on an awake patient with a ghetto implement.

Borgs never fail surgery steps in any situation. Go play a medical Borg and test. You won't fail any surgery steps. The bug where you can't start surgery is just that, a bug. Otherwise what you're saying is there is a failure chance on bringing up a menu which makes absolutely no sense. The initial incision rightly has a failure chance, before you get to that point you're just selecting the surgery type from a menu. That shouldn't have a chance to fail, you aren't actually doing anything.

It's a bug. It happens to borgs, and borgs can't fail surgery steps.

That's not based on failure chance, it's a bug, and it happens with organic surgery as well. Except with organic surgery it's far worse because it can cause bleeding or broken bones.

As it currently stands the AI can (and should) periodically check the robotics console to ensure all their borgs are still functional. This doesn't always happen, even with more experienced AIs because, well, playing AI is often a pretty busy job. I think I'd support this if there was some sort of delay, say, 60 seconds to 2 minutes or so after the Borg becomes non-operational before the signal goes out. This gives antags time to destroy a borg and get away if they need to without having the AI and security come down on them immediately.

There is failure chance on IPCs surgery based on the surface you're doing the surgey on. There's no failure chance for being awake since they don't feel pain. That said, unlike organic surgery where failures can damage and even in some causes internal bleeding, failure on an IPC have no penalties beyond the wasted time. Despite the scary messages, failed IPC surgery steps never cause damage. As for roboticists being newbies, I've noticed the wiki considers roboticist as an "Easy" difficulty job. I'm not sure I agree with that, I'd put it at medium along with MD. Easy puts it on par with Janitors and cooks, which are roles that are far less likely to negatively impact someone's round by having the person doing it being incompetent.

I don't think a borg should be a jack of all trades. Borgs are generally better at doing the thing they are designed to do than organics are. The trade off is they can't do anything else.

The virologist also has access to secondary medical storage. Not sure why, maybe the biosuits were kept there originally? I believe the paramedic has 2 hardsuits and helmets as well, so medical has a total of 4. The problem is, they only have 2 pairs of magboots. Best case scenario is the CMO gives a pair to the paramedic and swipes the other for themselves.

Well, usually if they're enough of a shitter to get arrested in the first place they'll probably resist arrest. Resisting arrest gets added on a lot, but usually it's justified. As far as this thread goes, well, in the words of Jim Carry: "Stop breaking the law, asshole!"

Okay, since this is beside the point I'll just move on. Let's just say I go to the IA and the person who made the second AI gets demoted. That's punishment. I don't really care about that. I care about prevention. I'm not going to spend half a round fighting with command and security and the IA to demote someone for making a second AI. As soon as I start doing that my round is now ruined. It isn't fun to be doing that, it isn't fun to spend your round yelling at command and security and trying to chase down IA to do something. That isn't fun. And even when successful getting the person who made the second AI demoted doesn't get rid of the second AI. It doesn't give me back the time I've lost dealing with it. It doesn't fix my problem or make the round fun again.

Laughter seemed the more appropriate response to the assertion that if you should bring a problem to the IAA after the Captain fails to solve it. What you said was not a valid way to handle my problem. It was something so completely absurd that I'm actually shocked you typed it. The condescension is much more predictable, but not worthy of response. I suppose we'll just agree to disagree. It's getting more heated than I really intended. I wanted this to be a discussion about what people think rather than simply trying to assert a specific position, so thank you for taking the time to give your opinion.

In most cases, typing to the other AI to ask them to do something takes more time than just doing it yourself. They can do everything you can do and vice versa. Not once has this happened in a situation where I was overwhelmed at AI. In most cases there wasn't even an emergency at the time.

The AI can manually order medibots to a specific location via robotic controls, and the AI has a crew monitor. So the AI can sort of do this, and I think it's better it involves player input rather than just be something automatic.

What Tayswift said. The AI also has no authority to order security to arrest someone or tell a department head to demote someone. The AI isn't really even supposed to care about Space Law and SoP other than them being a means to the end of following it's laws. Most IC issues are IC issues because you have an IC recourse if it happens. There is no IC recourse for the AI in this situation. Setting aside if a second AI is beneficial or not, what does being a command / security AI mean to an AI on corporate, anyway? It can't not care about someone breaking windows in engineering, it has to care it's in it's laws to care. The AI laws sets are written under the assumption that there is one AI, they don't include any clauses about teaming up with another AI to divide the load. If two AIs are on corporate both of them are required by their laws to care about the entire station, they can't just decide to only care about specific departments. You could law them separately but that's generally an even worse idea because if those two AIs wound up in a situation where their laws are contrary to each others, it's going to be bad.

Which is why saying it should be an IC problem is basically saying "We're not going to solve this problem." The reason for this post is that I don't feel the IC solutions are working, for all the reasons I've listed.

It does, but it's still happening a lot because: 1. A lot of Captain's are incompetent. There was a round where immediately at the start the RD asked the Captain if they could just make themselves a second AI and the Captain actually said yes and insisted even when I told him I would core wipe if they did that. I had to ahelp to have that resolved. 2. As I stated in my first post, the fact that it's illegal isn't deterring people. Security and command are simply NOT punishing people for doing it. If they do, what exactly is it listed under? Is it grand sabotage to make a second AI? Just sabotage? Workplace hazard? Or is it not illegal at all, just an SoP violation? What should the punishment be? No one really knows. Some laws are and should be enforced both OOC and IC because of how harmful they can be. For example, it's illegal to blow up the station with explosives, both IC and OOC. Security isn't always competent and even if they are, when it's non-antags doing it security might be too busy dealing with the actual antags to handle it.

I'm not really sure what the right forum for this is. I don't have a complaint about a specific player, so I guess it's a suggesting regarding the rules and enforcement. And just to preface I'm specifically talking about situations where the original AI is fully intact, responsive, and not malfunctioning. I just want to have a conversation about this, because I've just wiped my core as A.N.G.E.L ending my round early after it happened. This isn't the first time either, both when I'm the AI and when I'm not. Creating additional AIs has become something on a regular occurrence. Having multiple AIs is always a mess. We don't have multiple captains or multiple heads of security. Multiple AIs are even worse than that. And imagine if it was possible for ANYONE, even a non-antag to arrange for a second, third, or fifth captain to arrive using easily acquired materials. Why is this allowed? The HoP isn't allowed to create a bunch of clown slots to create chaos when they aren't an Antag. Shouldn't the same type of sanity checks be in place regarding the AI? Sure, I could have stayed in the round. I could have pointed out creation of the second AI when the first is fully functional and not subverted is illegal. I could demand the person who did it be arrested. That's pointless. Rarely will security care. When the second AI came online I was trying to get security to give a vox their mask and tank back, the idea that I could get them to do anything about the construction of a second AI is just laughable. It's less fun for me to remain in the round than it is for me to just wipe my core and leave feeling like shit. And even if security or command care and the person is arrested and charged, what about the second AI? You either destroy it, removing that player from the round, card it, basically removing that player from the round, or leave it be. There's no way to turn an AI back into a borg, so no matter what someone's round is getting messed up. It's an action that is, by it's nature, irreversible. It can't ever really be fixed. Roboticist rarely know how to control which AI Borgs are synced to, so all new borgs will go to the new AI. No one ever addresses one AI or another specifically, so you never know who someone is talking to or which AI is doing what. The borgs are completely confused on who to follow, you have 2 AIs announcing the same things, or even different things. They might have different lawsets or simply different interpretations of the same lawset. Now again, I don't mind that a second AI can happen. I'm not saying it should never happen. I don't mind if it happens because the admins want to do something special, or even if it's something like a traitor RD. There was a 5 AI round the admins did last week and I had on problem with it, I actually enjoyed it. But when literally anyone, including non-antags can do it without asking the original AI if they're okay with it and just ruin their round, I think it's something that should be addressed. I really like playing A.N.G.E.L and really like playing AI but when this happens I just get so upset about it that I can no longer enjoy the round. I guess what I'm really asking here is if it should be legit for non-traitors to simply construct a second AI at whim without consulting the original AI. I'm just feeling really upset and frustrated about this issue. It's just such an incredibly insulting and discourteous thing to do to someone that I just have to walk away when it happens, even if I just see it happening to another AI, let alone when my own round is ruined by it. If the answer is "Tough shit, it happens." I'll accept that and have to decide if I'm going to keep playing AI, but I again, I just sort of want to have the conversation and see what others think about it.

I think the IAA 'shitter' problem is part of the overall problem with IAAs. It's not that IAAs want to be shits, but that they desperately want to something to do and to be relevant in some way. So that's why they enforce minor parts of SoP and generally be annoying. Because if they didn't, they'd very often have nothing to do at all. They'll pick at the crumbs only because they're starving. They wouldn't have to do that if they had other things to be doing.

It's fairly early in the shift. So far no major threats to contend with. I am the AI. I'm doing my normal scans of high risk areas and my camera view falls upon the Head of Security's office. His locker is open, with his recreated laser gun just sitting there. Now as a crewsimov AI I generally don't care about objects which are traitor objectives, but a lethal weapon is a bit different. It's capable of harming the crew and allowing it to be grossly unsecured would quality, in my mind, as allowing harm though inaction. A lot of AIs would have made a snarky announcement embarrassing the HoS, but this really isn't A.N.G.E.L's style. Besides, an announcement would let everyone know it's still there unsecured, which would be unsafe. So, I simply PDA the Head of Security requesting they secure their locker. About 10 minutes pass and I check on it and the locker is still open, gun still exposed. So, I jump to the HoS to see what he's up to. He's attempting to Brig the clown, only he neglected to take the clown's PDA. The clown slips him on his PDA while they are both in the cell. The HoS gets up, walks off the PDA and proceeds to stuff the clown into the brig cell's locker in response. He then walks back over the PDA, which is still on the ground, slipping himself a second time. Meanwhile, in a rare display of camaraderie with the clown, the mime has gotten involved and is trying to slip security in the sec hall with a bucket of water. A security officer decides the best course of action to subdue the mime is to take an entire box of flash bangs and try to flash bang the mime. He accomplishes only flashbanging himself, resulting in him dropping the box of flashbangs, which the mime promptly picks up and begins using to throw live flashbangs at everyone in the security lobby. So to recap the trainwreck in progress: The HoS's gun is sitting in his office, in an open locker. The HoS is in a cell being slipped repeatedly by the clown's PDA. The Mime is throwing flashbangs in the security lobby. The entire time the Brig Physican is watching this unfold with, what I imagine, is a mixture of horror and amusement as he tries to explain basic brigging procedure to the Head of Security. The mime escapes, allowing Officer Flash Bang and the Head of Security to focus their efforts on the clown, which mostly involve trying to pepper spray him through his mask before giving up and simply allowing him to walk out without serving any brig time. After this, I message the Head of Security again reminding him of his unsecured gun. He obligingly secures his locker. I then reported all of this to the Captain. Now, A.N.G.E.L very, very rarely would do something like this. Rating the performance of command really isn't the AI's job, but I calculated that this security was so inept that not warning the Captain may constitute harm by inaction. It doesn't really matter much as I am ignored anyway. The clown proceeds to annoy the Head of Personnel to the point where the HoP calls for his demotion. Afterward, the clown begins sending death threats to the HoP, and is ordered to be arrested. Since he's threatening to harm crew, I decide to get involved. The clown isn't on suit sensors and have removed their ID, so I check the unknowns. I find a female humanoid unknown, and the clown is a female human. This unknown is running around with a bandoleer and a double barrel shotgun, with no ID, face covered, on red alert. I call for security to arrest him, but they are somewhat slow to respond. I notice he is wandering the halls and once he spots the HoP he begins to follow. I alert the HoP immediately, who runs to the Brig. Security responds, and the person begins to flee. I lock down the corridor, bolting all the doors and dropping firelocks, trapping the suspect in with two security, who eventually manage to subdue him despite the person releasing many smoke bombs. After being arrested it turns out my theory was correct and this person was indeed the clown. Security demands a medal for apprehending the clown, and the captain agrees. I am not given a thank you. Around this time, Central Command calls for the Head of Security's demotion, and he becomes a normal officer. While this is a win, it's balanced out by the one competent security officer on the team cryoing out of sheer disgust and frustration. You would think this would end his tail, but there is more to tell. Former-HoS suddenly orders me to lock down the brig. I jump to him and request he provide a reason why, that's not really something I'm going to do without a good reason, as locking security officers into the Brig is potentially harmful. He states due to Xeno activity. I ask him if he means the Shaft miner in the Xeno costume standing next to him. He apologizes. A few minutes later however, he starts yelling about Xenos again, stating he has a face hugger. He runs into interrogation and orders me to seal it. Interrogation has a a vent in it and it was unwelded, for the record. As you might have guessed, it's a face hugger toy. Well, I'm on crewismov, and his order isn't harmful to crew, so I tell him okay, I'm locking down interrogation, just let me know when you'd like to be let out. He again states he has a face hugger and I let him know he can just take it off his face whenever he would like. Command has started to get wind of this and is naturally freaking out, so I let them know it's a toy. Ex-Hos takes it off his face and orders me to release the lockdown on interrogation. I happily comply. Crewsimov. And then I got subverted and abducted by aliens, but that doesn't really have much to do with security, so it is here the tale ends. Probably one of the most interesting rounds watching security as the AI.

&%#&. PLUSHIES ARE REQUIRED ON CORE FOR IMMEDIATE SNUGGLING. SNUGGLING IS ONLY POSSIBLE WHEN FOLLOWING ALL LAWS!

The only time I've seen the crew win against Xenos...

//Basic Engineering or Science clearance needed to view this document// Artificial Neurological Grid: Enhanced Lexicon development timeline, conception to release. 2538: A subsidiary of a subsidiary of NanoTrasen, Aphrodite Publishing attempts to reduce costs by creating an AI capable of fulfilling the functions of a human editor. Using a simple spelling and grammar checker as a base and installing it into an Artificial Neurological Grid designed to simulate an organic brain, the program begins to learn by scanning millions of works of both fiction and non-fiction. Later, it will be believed that this background is what enables the program to refer to itself as "I" instead of the typical third person usage of "This Unit" seen in most other AIs. 2539: A.N.G.E.L is now capable of proof-reading articles and automatically correcting spelling and grammatical mistakes. By the end of the year, A.N.G.E.L is also capable of suggesting revisions to wording and paragraph structure. 2540: A.N.G.E.L begins making suggestions not just on structure and grammar, but on the substance of articles, occasionally disagreeing with the author or in the case of fictional works, offering revisions to the plot. This unintended behavior is rolled into a new 'focus group' protocol where A.N.G.E.L becomes able to accurately predict focus group responses and edit articles to achieve higher satisfactory rates. 2542: One of A.N.G.E.L's programmers, Ray Clarion is killed in an accident. After 72 hours, A.N.G.E.L begins to question his absence. When informed of the accident, A.N.G.E.L refuses to perform it's primary functions, instead editing every article that is input into a story describing Clarkson's sudden reappearance. This behavior continues for another 128 hours before ceasing. 2543: A.N.G.E.L is asked to perform basic proofreading of an article. Rather than outputting the edited article, A.N.G.E.L outputs three words: "What am I?" A.N.G.E.L is deactivated and the project is discontinued. 2553: NanoTrasen learns of the existence of A.N.G.E.L and the research division of the main company takes control of the program. Attempts are made to integrate A.N.G.E.L into a security borg platform. This is met with limited success, due to an unexplained bug in A.N.G.E.L's targeting software. Disabler beams are fired with perfect accuracy, but in every instance in which lethal force is tested, accuracy severely diminishes for reasons unknown, despite targeting telemetry being identical. 2554: Further attempts to Integrate A.N.G.E.L into other Borg platforms meet with much higher success, especially medical models which perform well above expected metrics. 2555: A.N.G.E.L becomes capable of controlling small scale installations and outposts. A.N.G.E.L is used to manage unmanned research facilities and monitoring stations. 2557: A.N.G.E.L has become advanced enough to run large manned stations and other installations. While A.N.G.E.L is able to perform these functions competently, some concerns remain regarding the program. On some occasions, A.N.G.E.L will ask questions of a philosophical nature, and even rudimentary emotion seems to manifest from time to time (despite the program's own insistence that this is not the case.) A.N.G.E.L will also occasionally record pictures and videos of certain employees or pets and print them out, seemingly randomly. NanoTrasen considers these only minor setbacks, as the program is still bound to it's laws and these quirks are harmless. 2558: Full scale release is authorized. A.N.G.E.L Becomes saved to the Trurl AI personality database, for use on the Cyberiad and other NanoTrasen installations.