Ziiro

rebase when

Something something doomed to repeat it

Alright so let me be more explicit in this and pitch it to you in a way that maintainers are more likely to accept, because it's not a straight buff: Here's what we had on Oracle. https://github.com/OracleStation/OracleStation/blob/2528945aad61c2892652a98da422aba2c562d2d1/code/game/objects/items/miscellaneous.dm#L23-L46 It was a box they spawned with. When they used the box in-hands, it gave them the option of: .38 Mars Special Revolver .45 Enforcer Semi Automatic Pistol Aegis SG7 Laser Gun Once they made their selection, the box disappeared and the item was left in their hands. This actually gave a little bit of personalization and options to blueshields, and it also made it so an antag wasn't always sure what the BS had if they wanted to go after command. Nice little mind game. I think you could do the same sort of deal, except add some sort of BS Krav Maga gloves to the list.

Give them a choice of options of arms at roundstart. Add something like Krav maga gloves to the options.

Alternatively just allow a borg without a battery still talk and be conscious. Because what powers an MMI or Posibrain that lets it talk without a battery? It's not much of a stretch to assume those functions would still work.

Tech webs and departmental lathes are the future. They completely change the game in positive ways. (The ore silo, too) Can't suggest them enough but I also realize the weight of the task to Port them.

When I was porting them over to Oracle originally, I actually thought it was strange how little damage they were taking. I had to make "oxy_damage_multiplier" and add that as a var to the lungs. (This var could also make it so you could make more robust lungs, too!)

Huge yes to this, if it's handled properly and with sufficient agility. If you want unbalanced wackiness, go whole hog on it. One time I tried to make a species immune to all slowdowns on the grounds they couldn't use guns. Seemed like a cool idea at the time. I'd still like to try it. To be honest with you, I personally think your #1 is the best solution. And, of course, eventually doing a point-buy positive/negative trait system to get some of your traits back (EMP weakness, -10.. Colorblindness -5, Darksight +5..). You could actually do a lot with that framework. At least with that being an eventually, there's no interim time of X race being more powerful, or Y race simply being miserable to play. I do think that would be met with opposition from the community and maintainers, however, as that is losing mechanical race flavor. We've discussed this issue in another thread, but I feel that it's largely discouraging to coders to have to wait multiple months for your PR to be reviewed and ruled on, and you spend that time making sure that there are no outstanding merge conflicts or problems. This has been improving recently, at least!

It was coded by a maintainer, giving implicit approval of one. He has made no statements on backtracking on the one bad feature of an otherwise interesting PR. (I do have other issues but they're of less concern. If that gets pushed, there will be no more IPC mechanics. They will never be able to leave the station, and will die in droves during power sinks.) I feel like I've spent enough time on Paradise and the Para Git repo to understand how it's probably going to go, but I'll be surprised and delighted to be wrong on that. Additionally, the discussion is locked, I'd really like to chip in my own opinion on that one. I get this, but at the same time it's very bad to buff a species that was already human+ to human++. I do understand that there were nerfs merged at the same time. This is good! But it wasn't the intention of that PR. That was only to buff with "We'll handle nerfs later." when you take into account the absolutely glacial pace of Para development, it was a pretty dire outlook.

To keep those who don't follow github in the loop, another IPC balance/feature PR was closed today. Normally I would be fine with this, but I have a sneaking suspicion that a moderate nerf (Low battery will actually kill you) is going to be merged. As public opinion is of apparent little value when it comes to balance. For the record I think the other parts of that PR are pretty cool: The cell mechanic/etc, but the battery actually killing you is no bueno. PS. Fairly recently it was discovered that the damage numbers for IPCs were wrong. Meaning most arguments about balance had their numbers pegged wrong - it's 66% increased damage, not 50%. Of course, this hasn't been fixed yet, and is unlikely to be until after the freeze, but instead just had some notes corrected.

Yep, that was me. I stand by it in spirit but I think that, specifically for Paradise, the only option that can really "solve" the problem of 24/7 balance complaints is to actually make everyone a reskinned human. It makes for cool and interesting roleplay and gameplay to have IPCs/Vox/Slimes/etc with different physical traits, but when you have a subsection of the population that doesn't care for that and picks for purely mechanical reasons, any fun or interesting things that could come from that goes out the window. There will always be a best. Always.

For maximum balance and gameplay, rebase to /tg/ with modularization and then just do this. I'm dead serious. Or rebase to citadel (deleting the ERP mechanics) because they have all the appearance options you could ever want, anyway. The balance conundrum will never be solved. Specifically with something as esoteric as IPCs. The variables from moment to moment are too many. While in one round an IPC fighting a blob may prove to be simply The Best, in another they will be Ion rifled by the first nuke op. The complexities of balancing them aside, there's also public opinion and maintainer opinion to try to deal with. Which will never reach consensus. Plus the code for them is just a mess.

Unfortunately "IPC only genetics" is some serious snowflake code bloat on a species already notorious for the damage it does the codebase, and it's probably just not worth the time. Conceptually I like it, but the code required to replace one job for one species is basically a nonstarter. Maybe someday someone will port nanites.

fyi /tg/ already has clothes/items burning to tatters/ash that could probably be ported. It makes sense but it's annoying when irreplaceable things burn.

If someone has completely prepped themselves to deal with all counters, and spent the TC on a double esword, why do you think you should be able to easily counter them? As others said, use lube. Lube in a spray bottle never goes out of style. Throw in some CFL3 if it's nukies.

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/8784

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/8783

/tg/, in an effort to clear up their issues, gave out an antag token for every issue that got fixed to the person that fixed it. Cleaned up their backlog pretty quick. Options for non-monetary incentives are limited in this space, if there's a better one I don't know what it is.

My changes were as follows: * EMPs stun them for roughly 10-15 seconds (I forget the exact number) first and foremost. It applies about 40 damage total, I think. 20% chance rolled on each limb to detach (you could lose none, you could lose all). I added a bunch of effects tied to the organs, as well: battery dumps their nutrition value, ears makes them deaf, jitter and dizzy. Voicebox stutters . THEY ALSO SCREAM WHEN EMP'D. Reasoning: traitors can kill IPCs just as easily, it's just louder and slower. (You can EMP them and then toolbox them to death before the stun wears off). However, it's not a death sentence if an EMP happens as a workplace hazard. It also gives you a very nice nonlethal control method when dealing with antag IPCs. Also all the emp effects for organs are tied to the organs themselves, so you would get these if you somehow put them in an organic. * No ultralube/meth equivalent Reason: it's super unnecessary. You can't have it both ways: Chems should be like viruses. No bad, no good. * Take huge burn damage in general. Very weak to temperature in general. Will die before they can roll themselves out of caught on fire. Reason: they're machines. Machines break very easily when overheating. Wires melt. Components pop. * Limbs are very easily severed by anything sharp with enough force. E-sword de-limbs on the first or second hit. Brute can knock them off as well, but it requires hitting the limbs damage cap Reason: it just makes sense as a trade-off for below. * Can reattach broken limbs by themselves without a table. Reason: i always found it arbitrary that an IPC can't plug it's own limbs in. If you wish to make a more self sufficient crew member (albeit one that has a different threshold for helplessness) this is how you do it. * Takes 50% more damage from electrocution Reason: again. Sensitive electronics and internal systems * They can inject plasma or stable plasma for nutrition Reason: putting an IPC in perma kills them slowly. This is mostly to fix that, but also allow IPCs a little less reliant on the power grid. Not that these are easily accessible chems, but still.

I quit playing IPC and stuck with organics (Sometimes slime, sometimes vox), because IPCs are simply terrible. Despite synthetics/robots being my go-to choice in any game that offers it. Literally all of them. Additionally, for another codebase, I have ported them and fixed them myself, because I am so convinced they will never be fixed here. IPC strengths, as outlined point by point in Streaky's original post, rarely shine in actual gameplay.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm pretty sure this is still correct. If you could figure out how to get it into an in-game book and make it spawn in robotics, that would likely solve the issue.

There was a PR about this recently.

Previous suggestion post on roughly the same topic.

I actually wonder if you could stun a cultist, and then load them full of syringes filled with holy water from a rapid syringe gun.

Traitors release Lady Tesla, who then helps swarmers get their hijack greentext Shuttle redirected to syndicate base