Aligote

Just to clarify, everyone's paycheck is 125 credits half an hour. Heads of staff start with 600 credits and everyone else starts with 450 credits, but everyone gets the same paycheck.

I don't think that's the case at all. Even if it was, I think the better solution would be to use the mechanics already present to make assistants better contributors. Moreover, the perception of people who say it is a jobless role can only reinforce that statement. I'm sure if you give most assistant players the chance to contribute, without needing to give up their profession, they would. Hell, the headcanon that the assistant position is paid leave is because many assistants are experienced players who just want the freedom the role provides, and they do still contribute to the shift. I also don't think assistants HAVE to constantly contribute in order to be considered a job. I think an assistant can enjoy things described like the bar, and still be considered the working crew. Assistants are what they are and there's no need to demean them as unemployed when they relax like any other job, in my opinion. People's experiences are variable and I've seen assistants assisting many times along with their chilling. I don't think your claim to universality is valid.

I just thought they were meant to be assistants to the station overall. They get to choose what profession they will risk their lives to help in the forsaken space station. I thought the station provided Guest Pass Terminals for that very reason, they have a place in the overall structure of the round. Their position in the workforce is one of learning and adaptability, at least that's how I perceived them. Paid break is a perspective though. Like, what others have said now. This just seems like a discussion over resolutions to an issue. If you do think this is a better solution, I don't think you need to hold on to it for another time. I'll be on the fence about the suggestion of reduced pay or a "paid break". Although it may be better than the original suggestion, I'm hesitant if such a headcanon should have that much sway over a mechanic.

I'm a little hesitant about this suggestion. Mainly because I think the reasons behind them are flawed. Instead of refuting why assistants aren't helpful to departments, the post just makes a blanket statement demeaning all assistants as bridge hobos, unemployed, and worthless. While the offer to the "issue" is mainly to just make people leave the profession. I think assistants are working crewmembers and are useful as their name suggests. I also am hesitant that this change, mainly motivated by the perception of assistants as worthless, could affect roleplay in the future. I am concerned that this change would just enforce insulting assistants and demeaning those players overall. Also, this roleplay aspect already exists to some extent. Heads of staff have access to department accounts which they can pull credits out for additional revenue or whatnot. The assistants have their own "department" account which is significantly lower than the rest. Roleplay could center around that mechanic, which already financially cuts at assistants. I am not entirely against the idea of diversifying the paychecks. I personally like how everyone being paid 125 credits half an hour does seem like a dystopian aspect of the world, NT doesn't even bother because they're so powerful, but I am open to the change. I just don't particularly like how this suggestion seems to wanna carry that change out.

I think it's safe to say this post is about how to deal with other players. I don't think the narrow view that respect would get respect back is foolproof, because honestly, it just won't sometimes. The RD shouldn't be a jerk when you respectfully ask for them to open shutters, but sometimes they just stay closed. HOP shouldn't make tedious side objective hunts for a pass, but that happens. You can try to respectfully interact with the chef by standing on the door edge to keep their attention while you try and talk, and you can get your neck chopped and shoved out. Of course, you should respect other players, but I don't think that excuses how other players may disrespect you with their method of dealing with "trespassers". Asking for a pass is a fine course of action, but I don't think it's the only way because of how players are. I don't think anybody directly denied that public soup kitchens are bad. But I don't think you are obligated to go to HOP and be coerced into becoming the chef, which is the natural course of that interaction. Never mind convenience/gameplay-wise, assistants or other crewmembers taking the initiative to hop over the table and cook until a proper chef arrives is the entire reason I find public soup kitchens endearing. They're not gonna sacrifice their current occupation to stay fed, they're gonna bake basic bread. Add that along with the gameplay convenience of getting people fed faster. Even if it's disconnected from if a chef was already there, it just goes to show the benefit not focusing on workplace trespassing may have, especially if a chef does finally arrive and not immediately kick everyone out. I also think there's an important difference between breaking or walking into a workplace. On this topic about keeping others out, I think it is important to differentiate how you deal with either situation. Putting someone in a chokehold for merely walking in before they could explain themselves isn't as condonable to me personally. I just believe it's best that such tendencies for one's workplace be tamed somewhat.

Yeah, that fits ¯\_(:/)_/¯

I do appreciate the thorough rebuttal to my post. All I can say is that, conversely, like how tiding is a meme that describes a real tendency, immediate workplace aversion to "outsiders" is also a tendency that I've seen memes about as well. And even though I can understand a tendency, like a Tider tiding because they're ignored or insulted (or they're just a jerk), it doesn't mean there isn't an understandable/justified perspective from the other side. I can understand but not support what may seem like reserved behavior against a potential threat by one player, but what seems like direct violence for the other. A chef throat-chopping an assistant may seem like Tuesday to them, but to the assistant, it's a direct sign of disrespect and malice. I suppose this goes the same for walking into people's workplaces. While one might see another player disrespecting their boundaries, the other might be trying to close the distance in the most literal way possible. Roleplay-wise, people would try connecting to others by walking up to them, even in their workplace. The fact that the setting makes distrust so prevalent could only make that attempt more interesting. So I don't know, is the disconnected way players react to outsiders conducive to that? This is an entirely separate can of worms. If we're going for the realism argument here (which I wouldn't recommend, but hey) consider that having someone not manning a specific position lounge around a work area can have considerable negative impact--ranging from as small as being an obnoxious distraction all the way to a dangerous obstacle, depending on the job. Assistants can indeed be helpful, but their help would theoretically be coordinated as needed, and not merely allowed into restricted station areas to lounge about. That said, I'm not a fan of realism arguments. It makes for poor gameplay in most cases... and this is a dumb goofy game set in a shitty hell hole of a space station. So, looking past that, from a gameplay and/ or roleplay sense--once again, there's a time and place. Occasionally allowing a friend inside your department (DEPENDING ON DEPARTMENT [the brig isn't a hangout zone, for example]) to chill when things are calm is fine, provided the others in your department don't have any oppositions. Occasionally allowing a friend inside your department if you're overworked and need some help is also fine in some circumstances (if I'm running around trying to repair 20 IPCs and another robotics capable player currently as assistant comes along and offers a bit of help, I sometimes say yes, for example). Teaching a friend or an otherwise new random player your job is also fine sometimes, provided tact is used. However, constantly allowing your friends inside your department is indeed problematic. It disrupts gameplay flow (hanging around in big groups makes it hard for many antags to do their thing... or far easier in some cases [conversion antags]), it attracts negative attention from griefers, it instills toxic mindsets and clique behavior which plagues most ss13 servers. I believed the issue of metagaming was just a way to demean assistants from assisting in departments as a whole. That getting a "real job" was the only way to positively contribute to the round. I agree that metagaming in that manner would be an obstacle, and I agree from a gameplay and roleplay(realism) sense, that there's a time and place. I believe there are many encounters like the one you described which is what I support. You're also right about the nature of the game. It isn't a coop, it's a multiplayer game with different roles that offer different ways of having fun. So instead, I guess I just think the roleplay aspect with others has a lot of potential. Ultimately, I agree that walking into another player's workplace and intruding on their work is bad form like before. I can understand where these players are coming from about others walking in at all, especially seasoned veterans who had to deal with such things far longer than I have. But I can also understand my own experiences. So to circle back to the original question, I still believe it's best for players to try and tame their tendencies to kick their fellow crewmember out with hands instead of words, and to be open to interaction as such. Of course, if you're not interested, you're not obligated to engage, although throwing hands may not be required either. Also If the original recommendation was for jobs that DON'T involve only one person, like working as a group in security or leading crew like a head of staff, I'd still suggest trying assistant for interactions....or engineering with their demented coworker-bonding power projects IDK.

Front Page Issue: The Quartermaster has betrayed the Cargonian cause and joined command and middle management. Suggestion: Replace the Quartermaster with Forklift the Cargo Tech.

Page URL(If applicable): Main Page. Description of your suggestion or issue report: The Bay station link no longer works on the front page. I believe they moved to a new wiki. The suggestion is to simply update the link to give respects.

Thanks

Good to hear. However, the page is protected. Hopefully, someone with access can make the edit or find a more thorough solution.

Page URL(If applicable): Guide to Editing the Wiki Description of your suggestion or issue report: When you upload a new image to an existing file to update it, the past file will remain with the new image's dimensions on the page it's used, from the editor's side. The solution is simply to delete one's cache to force the browser to use the new image. While this is an issue, I also have a suggestion. In the section on "Uploading a New Image to an Existing File" in the Guide to Editing the Wiki, just add a disclaimer to delete one's browser cache to update the image on the page they are working on. Again, this is just a suggestion, more thorough solutions would be much appreciated.

There were indeed, mistakes on the Toxins page. The plasma canister was in the wrong port and there was outdated information on maximum degrees and procedures. However, the 67/33 ratio does burn, but you may need to press the ignition a few times. Hopefully, more players will have a better understanding of Toxins after this. Thanks for bringing this up.

Pages: Vulpkanin - Paradise Station Wiki Union of Soviet Socialist Planets - Paradise Station Wiki Description of your suggestion or issue report: Since these pages pertain to lore, I'd like to make a few suggestions. First, the USSP page talks about the Vulpkanin citizens on Herars III. The Vulpkanin page only references two groups outside the Vazzend system; the nomadic Kelebunztim and the immigrant population in Sol. Just to be consistent, I think the Vulpkanin page should reference the Vulpkanin on Herars III as well. Second, the quote I think it's a little underwhelming. For instance, let's compare it to Malfoy Ames' quote: And Ames is practically a traitor! So, my suggestion is to simply make the first quote longer, and luckily there's a simple way to do that. The first quote is very likely inspired by Ho Chi Minh's quote, "Patriotism first, not yet communism." However, the whole expert of that quote could simply be used as the framework. It even has a written work that can be attributed to like Malfoy's quote, The Path Which Led Me to Leninism. You could just change it to something like -The Path Which Led Me to Solar Socialism, Pyemi Vedinin.

This is a legit perspective, however, there are also situations like this: Assistant: *Waves at the chef and points to locker with meat. Chef: *Opens the door and takes the locker away. Assistant accompanies the locker. Assistant: Hey so uh, I was this thinking. Maybe I could get us some cleavers and start a bistro tog- Chef: *Neck chops assistant and kicks him out before his text bubble appears. *repeat behavior every shift Just to say, perhaps reconsider the situation, and if you really just wanna play by yourself like that. Like seriously, when the chef is absent, the kitchen being turned into a soup kitchen is an experience in itself. The crew has to work together to make what they can and usually, it's an assistant who has to commit and carry that situation. Just to say- I don't think this is a healthy perspective. Seriously, conflating assistants with shitty behavior overall and using that to justify shitty behavior back is such a flawed mindset. How can you conflate every flaw assistants may commit as justification to treat them like dogs that need to be "kept out"? I know people may be weathered by shitters but does this make such animosity justified? I don't think it is. So even if an assistant is invited in because someone understands they could be trusted, there is an issue of metagaming and "getting in the way"? People can form professional relationships without it negatively impacting anything. An assistant can be helpful as their name suggests, and they shouldn't be obligated to "ask for a job" to have the autonomy to do their original job. I'll be frank, I understand assistant shitting is an issue. However, the number of incidents of security officers finding any reason to arrest someone or the unjustified animosity of some players for their workspace is a prevalent issue that should also be addressed. Ultimately, I think this behavior of "protecting your workspace" is understandable but flawed. This isn't just about assistants, this issue applies to all of the crew who can walk. I think the best thing is to just understand that this is a cooperative game and although walling yourself in may be understandable, it's not something I really condone. Also, respect assistants, I hope this entire thread wasn't just about assistants.

I think there are multiple sentiments that must be addressed in this thread. First, obviously, people ignoring and doing your job for you should be looked down upon. However, this heavily depends on HOW you interact with them. If your first reaction to someone stepping into your "workplace" is to robotically shove them outside as their text bubble is loading. There may be a reason you're getting burned out. A person approaching you could potentially be one of the most fruitful RP opportunities you could get, you can discuss what they need and how they could produce it. That's why this "close doors on those tiders lmao" sentiment put me off, assistants are ASSISTANTS. Most departments have GUEST PASS MACHINES. Ya know, this visible burnout from "production" roles may be because you're not interacting and roleplaying, a major part of this game. Second, people mindlessly taking over your job is a stain on the other player's behavior, not a justification to try and wall yourself in. Again, that's how you burn yourself out, doing the same thing over and over again. Third, don't interact with security by crying wolf. They don't have a sense of humor. Fourth, you can do anything as an assistant. You can play at the arcade by yourself and choose who you talk to. It's a great role to familiarize yourself with other jobs that could fit you as well, such as librarian or whatnot. I mean, what's the point and end goal of SS13 jobs? It's to cooperate with one another and try to build something in the face of adversity. Or, in other words, to make a good story and simulation. Why not just "work" as an assistant?

Station Purpose The station's main purpose is to: -Mine resources (currently Lavaland) and test it's quality with RND products/experiments (Toxins and plasma). -Export plasma, tech disks, and illegal advanced seeds from cargo to serve in "important" NT cataloguing or distribution. -Strengthen legal NT presence in the epsilon eridani sector and currently Lavaland.

Dont we all :/ If it's performance issues I guess you need to get reports from other people as well, perhaps your computer is especially stunted. Also when I still played in my garbage small laptop, blob rounds never really seemed to be much of an issue performance wise.

"Russian Station" The "Russian" station that survived the gateway purge (as of posting) holds some contradictory implications that would make alot more sense with the proposed theory. Based on first glance, Russians have invaded some sort of NT facility (contrary to SOME people who just describe it as a Russian base) and don't think any further about it. However, there is no reason for the "Russians" to be non-sentient mobs and for the USSP to even be attacking NT in the first place (their not hostile as of the recent USSP lore update). Now, what is most likely the case for me is that their syndicate bioengineered soldiers dressed in soviet clothing to pin the USSP as scapegoats and ruin NT-USSP relations. It would explain why those "Russians" are the way they are and the entire gateway destination as a whole.

Was this ever resolved?

It's good but I do have a few gripes. Relating to paradise specific lore, I'm pretty sure skrell were the first to make contact with Sol to make the human-skrell alliance or something. "Tizaran" also are strange since the unathi are the "lizard people" and the closest to the name are tajarans, one of the two "feline" species. Also 2100 forwards, the main Earth planetary body was the United Earth Confederacy and then the Sol federation. I'm sure there's a way to make them the "US" and their marines the "USCM". Personally, considering the Alien lore I think it would make more sense if Weyland-Yutani secretly merged with NT, keeping all that corporate corruption and such. Anyways, really interesting interpretation to the origins of the alien. It was bound to happen considering the mysterious and unknown history of those things :)

Would you try to protest them outside of the workplace with no workers on a highly militarized pro-NT planet that implements martial law? COUGH COUGH Sol...

Yes, unions shouldn't be organized when the station is under heavy pressure by antags and explosions. You shouldn't organize a strike when a cult or blob is present and this CAN be solved with some sort of admin cooperation. They can vet when a situation is good or bad enough for a union and how impactful(violent) it can be. I can agree that perhaps some of these alternatives could be interesting (bullying NT rep), however, I feel theres a contradiction in not wanting the union to make an impact. The union should want to be known during the round and be a driving force for what happens. Also, why wouldn't it be benificial RP wise? Conflict is integral to what people find fun on paradise, allowing people to scream and shout against command or sec on a massive scale has its own aesthetic/charm/impressiveness thats adds to the overall round experience. Think what it could achieve if it wasn't handicapped ooc/ic wise and capable of forcing command to actually negotiate instead of be busted as they inevitably always ends. Overall, I just believe there is some sort of optimum fun rp related activity revolving around rebellion and unions that can be replicated effectively under the right circumstances and design, perhaps you do too. A reformed union-esqe RP mode can surely work (even though this scope is large to ask for) as well, along with other potential solutions.

I don't believe protesting automatically affects engineers, cargo, rnd, or medbay to its detriment. Unionists should take their immediate surroundings into account, like no protesting when cultists are rampant. Moreover, unionists still get the short end of the stick most of the time with how handicapped they are when sec "does their job" and busts the movement for the 5000th time. Also, why should a player doing the same procedures of a monotonous job validate repressing others attempts at a more interesting RP experience? I just don't believe in the validity of that statement. This hasn't been proved; unions don't just sprout out of nowhere. Moreover, a system of asking admins still allows them to vet who just wants to antag and who wants to rp. A good ahelp detailing the reasons and goals for a union and why it can go violent if push comes to shove should be given more weight than a lazy ahelp that says their bored. It's not the only solution either, advising people to book union events pre-round or vouch for an RP rev mode is also in question. Valid, but unions have never really been a detriment to station workings, that's the thing with unions that don't sprout immediately to harm "the station". An engineer finishing the SM and standing with a picket sign for a higher wage isn't as bad as an engineer forcefully converted into a rev by flash and not setting up the engine to attack his CE. Doing your obligation so the round runs smoothly isn't contradictory to protesting or "striking" afterwards, in my opinion. Thats the spirit of the rule right? What's more in line with the rule then to vouch for your working conditions as well? I understand that you can ahelp but to what extent? Can violence to defend against sec oppression ever be proposed? Fine, I understand. I just thought there could’ve been more to this topic I genuinely believed can lead to more interesting RP scenarios and open command/sec eyes from monotonously union busting.

Unions do make sense ICly. NT is a big bad evil corporation who will fight tooth and nail to keep their crew's lives terrible, that's why UNIONS DO MAKE SENSE TO EXIST and why them being violent would make them more so. OOCly, of course the situation on the station does matter when someone tries to form a union, but it ussually should be due to an actual reason and when it's possible, players should put these into consideration. Moreover, gimmicks and being "overplayed"(as if any good gimmick isn't) shouldn't completely write it off, again it's a very flawed system that repeats itself because it isn't renovated. Still, it is kinda integral to Paradise lore, you're working for an evil megacorporation of course people would want to RP resisting it. This goes the same for peaceful protests most of the time as well, in most of my encounters its sec who mindlessly arrests everyone without consideration to actual roleplay and them or command should be given flack for it. I don't know about you but demonstrations and such were never so "unfun" to the extent you say. Also, the presence of antags shouldn't prohibit conflict, it's one of the factors that make RP fun. There is actually a simple solution to this, ahelp and ask to form a union. If they say yes (no response is a response, it means no), Generally, when people are given event roles, this goes far smoother as an admin will actually want to play along, and other people will also want to play along. Security isn't gonna get flack for doing it's job. I dont know how this contradicts the suggestion/solution, the ahelp is to get an admin in on it. And if there is no response I dont believe that prohibits unionizing altogether. Apparently, the former RP rev game mode had you sign up when a popup came up? I don't know what adminbus refers to....but um that's great, it could be renovated into a more consensual and bureaucratic process by perhaps joining through signature? Any solution and suggestion is welcome. Exactly, due to self antagging laws, solutions like giving unionists some antag status due to IC occurrences is a solution. Cargonia is likely one of the most loved gimmicks out there to some. Interesting scenarios can arise and shouldn't be entirely wiped away. Anything that goes against NT interests are essentially antags, that doesn't mean they should be wiped away as binarily antithetic to what paradise should strive for. Not all unionists are self-antaging tiders and those interested in complex RP scenerios may never get their chance. Appreciate this suggestion to make things clearer. Still I believe there’s a more RP oriented and nuanced solution. Ye it's kinda sad how often restrained union activity is and what NT can do without any real resistance.