Spacelaw Changes

[DaveTheHeadcrab]

 

I dislike how Baystation's spacelaw works for a number of reasons, the primary one being the ability for officers to stack overlapping charges and the extremely long times that tend to come out of this. A good portion of the minor crimes can result in a fifteen minute sentence not including processing, not to mention the medium crimes. Criminal sentences get very large very quickly due to this, and take upwards of 1/4th of a player's round away.

 

Allow me to give an example:

 

A player goes behind the bar, and attacks Pun Pun. He disarms the officer attempting to arrest him a few times, but is subdued. He then insults the officer over public radio multiple times on the way to the brig. This reflects poorly on the player, but are not crimes that I would deem worthy of a sentence over fifteen minutes. And yet, under Baystation's law, watch:

 

Trespass: 10 minutes

Animal Cruelty: 15 minutes

Insulting an Officer on Duty: 15 minutes

Battery: 8 minutes

Resisting Arrest: 15 minutes

Misuse of Public Radio Channels: 3 minutes

 

The offender has just racked up a 66 minute sentence, permabrig is now authorized according to Space Law. This is absurd.

 

My suggestion is to replace our current Space Law system with /TG/ space law with the following modifications:

 

Space Law is not a suggestion as it is on /TG/. Times might be flexible depending on circumstance, but outright ignoring the guidelines would get you in serious trouble.

Permanent sentences cannot be authorized by the Warden.

All sentences under our law would be tripled, because I believe their brig times are too low to work properly on our server.

 

After modification, the brig times would look like this:

(Labor camp points may need to be modified further, we would monitor this for abuse and change point goals if it became problematic)

Minor Crimes: 3 minutes

Medium Crimes: 6 minutes or 300 point labor camp sentence

Major Crimes: 15 minutes or a 1500 point labor camp sentence

Capitol Crimes: Execution, Cyborgification, Permanent labor camp sentence, permabrig. Only the Captain or HoS would be able to authorize permabrig. Only the Captain would be able to authorize execution.

 

Let's re-examine the crime I mentioned above under the modified /TG/ law (/TG/ space law guide for reference: http://www.ss13.eu/wiki/index.php/Space_law):

Trespass: 3 minutes

Resisting Arrest: 3 minutes

Assault of an Officer: 15 minutes

 

A total sentence of 19 minutes. Much more reasonable, I'd claim.

 

Please leave your thoughts on the suggestion or ideas for further modification for Space Law below.

 

[Nomzy]

Far too much I have needed to PM sec officers to lower their timer of 8 years. You got my vote.

[Streaky Haddock]

I like it. Reminds me of Goon Law. I would say though that labour camp is pointless for a 6 minute sentence.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest

[Qinetix]

Looks good, mainly because it just makes it simpler to give time, as all crimes under a certain category have the same time or punishment.

[Xperia15]

Sorry but unless you want to change the server into a self vigilance warzone, I would suggest to take the suggestion of space law change from kluys poll instead of this. I am laughing at how stupid you are atm to give medium crimes a 3 minute sentence and major crimes 15. The times like they are now are good, but the stacking is what needs to be worked on.

[Xperia15]

 

Also you counted the time very very wrong, it is actually:

Trespass: 3 min

Animal cruelty: 5 min

Insulting office: 5 min

Battery: 2 min

Ressiting arrest: 10 min

Abuse of comms: 3 min

Which is a total of 28 minutes, not the 66 you claim (fail?) which is also NOT perm brig able.

 

Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest

[Qinetix]

Actualy Dave suggested 6 minutes fofor a medium crime, read again

[Bone White]

 

As an advocate of the current space law, I would not like a change. The current space law allows for meaningful IC punishment for people being detrimental to the gamemode, and allows antagonists to serve a penalising time in security for a minor crime by "playing" space law.

 

If you go this route, it's not even worth brigging for most crimes, because processing takes up so long you'd need more security officers, for less punishment, and less result, making security even less efficient than it already is, whilst encouraging non gamemode crime which will contribute towards breaking rules (not playing the role you've chosen, self-antagging).

 

Please stick with the current system.

 

[necaladun]

 

If the problem is stacking of multiple charges, then possibly a better solution is to add crimes that include the lesser, and have more weight on going with the heaviest of the charges. Double jeopardy should prevent the stacking there....although there is nothing in space law about double jeopardy.

 

A lot of the problems of stacking times and taking the highest from additional charges is that it relies on the responsibility of the sentencing party - the original example you posted was if security decides to apply the max charge of everything they can find, eg - throwing the book at you.

 

Some of the additional penalties in minor are 2-4x the crime, and almost always demotion. Medium has 6 charges which "can" be permabrigging. Insulting an officer/misuse of public coms/ec are able to be tacked on to..a lot of crimes.

 

So, I think additional penalties is the problem here. It -really- needs to be defined when it's to be used, and how different it should be from the original sentence needs review.

 

Until everyone's clear on how, when, and why additional charges are given, then none of us are speaking the same language.

 

Edit - also,"Repeat Offenders: For repeat offenders, you may double the sentences listed here."

6 minutes for trespass the second time sounds fine. 30 for insulting officers doesn't.

 

[Fj45]

While the times may need a close look at, stopping insane sentence times and stupid laws would be great. This change would also make it far easier to spot shitcurity.

[Spacemanspark]

 

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3392

Why not just use this.

 

[Bone White]

 

Let's keep this topic on track, it's titled "Would you be willing to give this system a try?" So let's stick to this system, without throwing in other systems to complicate things. The more complex this gets the less likely there will be any change/improvement.

 

I'd be willing to try this system, in as much as I'd avoid playing security until I'd seen it in action for a while, but I am still massively against lowering punishments for crimes.

 

Edited January 12, 2015 by Guest

[DaveTheHeadcrab]

 

Also you counted the time very very wrong, it is actually:

Trespass: 3 min

Animal cruelty: 5 min

Insulting office: 5 min

Battery: 2 min

Ressiting arrest: 10 min

Abuse of comms: 3 min

Which is a total of 28 minutes, not the 66 you claim (fail?) which is also NOT perm brig able.

 

Actually, I counted it correctly, giving the maximum possible sentence for each crime. And if you read Space Law (http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Space_Lawhere) in the commentaries and clarifications section it is clearly states that any time over 60 minutes is to be changed to a life sentence. Also known as a Permabrig.

 

EDIT:

As an advocate of the current space law, I would not like a change. The current space law allows for meaningful IC punishment for people being detrimental to the gamemode, and allows antagonists to serve a penalising time in security for a minor crime by "playing" space law.

 

Antagonists would, under the new system, serve a penalizing time as well. The 'Enemy of the Corporation' charge is a capitol crime and may be punished by any of the appropriate methods so long as it's authorized. And if the antagonist only committed a minor crime, and security doesn't know they're an antag or cannot prove it they should not be serving more time than anyone else who committed that crime, because the instant sec knows you're an Enemy of the Corporation you get the crime slapped on you and punished summarily.

 

As for punishing non-antags, this isn't about nerfing security or making greytiders more powerful. It's about giving fair sentences to criminals where our current times are absurdly long because they come from a server where charges can be disputed and go through a trial, and where IAA holds power over security.

 

Granted, the proposed system comes from a server where there is even less RP than ours, and where lawyers are generally laughed out of the brig. This is why I've modified the times to fit our server.

 

If you go this route, it's not even worth brigging for most crimes, because processing takes up so long you'd need more security officers, for less punishment, and less result, making security even less efficient than it already is, whilst encouraging non gamemode crime which will contribute towards breaking rules (not playing the role you've chosen, self-antagging).

 

Processing takes sixty seconds for a good officer to do, probably even less, and I fail to see how this has a bearing on how efficient security is. I also do not believe that this will have an effect on how much serious self-antag criminal activity will occur, but that is why the question in the poll is 'Would you be willing to try it?' and not 'Do you want this implemented'. It would be on an experimental basis just incase we saw a serious spike in serious non-antag criminal activity.

 

[monkeysfist101]

The current Space Law works just fine if you aren't being a shit. I've been brigged exactly TWICE since joining back in August. Once while I was part of the amorphous blob known as greytide and once while I was an antag. If I were to change anything, I'd lower the maximum sentence for our current crimes. Really and truly, though, if the HoS is worth his salt, he'll remind security that stealing a pen is not worth the maximum sentence for petty theft.

[Xperia15]

 

Nobody but then like nobody, gives the maximum sentence for crimes. Everyone sticks with the numbers it gives you, the standard sentences.

 

I don't support this system, as I've seen enough officer not being shit and just lowers people sentence to a reasonable one.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Nobody but then like nobody, gives the maximum sentence for crimes. Everyone sticks with the numbers it gives you, the standard sentences.

 

I don't support this system, as I've seen enough officer not being shit and just lowers people sentence to a reasonable one.

Never seen security give a max sentence either, now that I think of it.

 

[Plotron]

I've seen some ugly stacking and as such I'd like a minor change. Current times seem mostly alright, so no thanks.

[Fj45]

X, Monkey, just because some officers aren't crap doesn't mean that the system shouldn't be changed to help limit shitcurity.

[M3hillus]

 

Why dont we go somewhere like goon goes, and add a fine system to it.

Now, granted there is ZERO economy on para, effectively, but I think that if ALL the crimes were listed on a checkbox type thing (either on a security PDA or Security record computer) you could check off the applicable crimes, and it would pop out a receipt, that the criminal would have to pay, or work off.

Which would also add the crimes to the criminal's security record.

 

Automate the system, as it were.

 

Capital crimes, obviously would not be avaliable to "pay" off as it were.