belarion Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Loyalty implants start off in the HoS's locker currently, I think it'd be better if they were only gettable via R&D/cargo/Gamma armoury and not available from round start, they're just dished out waaay too readily IMO, considering the huge use they have, sec should at least have to work to get a hold of them. Especially since doing anything antaggy will typically have you implanted, I get that they're supposed to be an alternative for perma brig and all, but as it currently stands implants are the first thing every authority figure goes for regardless of legality/SoP (grand sabotage? loyalty implant, attacked head of staff? implant, has syndie balloon? implant, if they think you're an antag they will implant you, every, damn, time). I just think they're atrociously overused, reducing their initial availability could go a long way to reducing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If you got ahelped for anything short of a major crime during a non-emergency situation, ahelp it. I get the syndi balloon all the time and I've never been implanted, because it's not even contraband. "What? You want to take away my BALLOON!? MAGISTRATE!" If I'm pretty sure you're an antag, and you've committed an upper offense (that is something deserving of perma) I'm more than happy to implant you, because the alternatives all involve you sitting out for the round. Grand Sabo and Assaulting a Head of Staff are both perma-able crimes (the latter depending on how bad the assault is), the only scenario you listed where a loyalty implant should never be used is for the syndie balloon (which really isn't even illegal. I mean, come on people, it's a balloon). Terrorist collab is also a perma-able crime (being an antag, more or less), and with that said when working any security role the first thing I always do is figure out what the code words are, so I can verify and figure out for sure who's an antag. Implants can be ordered as well, so reducing initial availability is just going to make rev rounds impossibly hard to start and end up with a lot more murderboning. While they're a gimmicky game mechanic, they keep people playing when they would otherwise be dead. So, I vote no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 B-but the balloon says fuck you NT! That m-must mean I can get my valids on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belarion Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 If you got ahelped for anything short of a major crime during a non-emergency situation, ahelp it. I get the syndi balloon all the time and I've never been implanted, because it's not even contraband. "What? You want to take away my BALLOON!? MAGISTRATE!" If I'm pretty sure you're an antag, and you've committed an upper offense (that is something deserving of perma) I'm more than happy to implant you, because the alternatives all involve you sitting out for the round. Grand Sabo and Assaulting a Head of Staff are both perma-able crimes (the latter depending on how bad the assault is), the only scenario you listed where a loyalty implant should never be used is for the syndie balloon (which really isn't even illegal. I mean, come on people, it's a balloon). Terrorist collab is also a perma-able crime (being an antag, more or less), and with that said when working any security role the first thing I always do is figure out what the code words are, so I can verify and figure out for sure who's an antag. Implants can be ordered as well, so reducing initial availability is just going to make rev rounds impossibly hard to start and end up with a lot more murderboning. While they're a gimmicky game mechanic, they keep people playing when they would otherwise be dead. So, I vote no. Ahelping isn't really too useful if its a rev round, as far as I can tell its generally regarded as "team deathmatch" and that's how its usually played. Balloons? I've ordered syndie ballons exactly three times, each time I've been ganked by a head of staff/security officer for being an "enemy agent", you've had an easier experience Here's a case for you, round that just ended: I was a rev head scientist, went around subtly flashing folks, had a conversation whilst chasing a chaplain around and was shortly afterwards brigged since he'd seen my flash. In the mean time I'd hidden it off my person, despite not finding anything incriminating it was still decided I should be implanted, I suspect the only reason I wasn't was because they couldn't actually get access to one (HoS was AWOL). Yes, it was a rev round and I was a rev, so sec felt wholly justified in implanting me since they knew I was an antag (since someone said they saw the flash), despite them not having actually found anything incriminating on me. It was specifically brought up that my "associates" (other scientists) were going to be implanted as well, that's a whole bunch of life sentence punishment based on spess gossip. Its shitsec and it wasn't picked up since it was "valid" as we were actually antags, I know the server is light RP and all but in regards to loyalty implants nobody even bothers to pay lip service to SoP (or space law in general sometimes), if you get caught on even flimsy "evidence" its always game over, with them around from round start it just kills any and all possible prisoner RP/interaction/not having your round fucking ruined by an implant because of pseudo-metagaming bullshit. I you're lucky, there's an IAA/magistrate around, who'll either protest and be ignored or wholly encourage your mind enslavement, exceptionally rarely someone will send a fax to CC/hold a trial while the station explodes and the shuttle arrives. Its just too easy for sec as it is right now to "lol ur implantd tell us everything" anytime they know OOC someone is probably an antagonist, which is what they do do, every time, light RP and all but still, there's just no way of getting out of it. I would suggest also that the cost of ordering them should be less than 50 (1!) cargo points as well, since they are essential for rev rounds, but please, something must be done to stop them being thrown around like monkey poop in the chimp enclosure. Even if its not reducing their round start availability, other ideas are more than welcome here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michellebaren Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 In most rounds I've been in or had dealings with Security, they're pretty much handed out like candy. SEC doesn't even use them as an alternative means to permabrigging people either. I've seen people Loyalty Implanted AND permabrigged/executed many a time recently. But yeah. 100% endorsed. The shitcurity of this server is disgusting and IMO it's time for changes to be implemented to fix it. Limiting the availability of these implants would help curb the problem a bit. Some additional measures need to be taken as well but that's for other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheakhan Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I like the idea of making Loyalty Implants rarer. Then again, I also like the idea of insta-job banning anyone who violates SoP, fails to follow Space Law, or is general shit as Security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone White Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The correct use for loyalty implants is: 1) When Space Law allows it. That's it. Bear in mind it can be used to replace a permanent (60 minute + ) brig timer, or execution, if the HoS/Captain sees fit. It should never be a method to "test" to see if someone is an antagonist. There was a recent thread about this so I'll keep this short here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citinited Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The times I've authorised the use of loyalty implants are on confirmed traitors. Some of the times I executed after implanting to see if they had any information that they were unwilling to give, other times I've let them go after serving some time. The correct use for loyalty implants is: 1) When Space Law allows it. That's it. Bear in mind it can be used to replace a permanent (60 minute + ) brig timer, or execution, if the HoS/Captain sees fit. It should never be a method to "test" to see if someone is an antagonist. There was a recent thread about this so I'll keep this short here. The wiki is kind of vague on when loyalty implants can be used, it might be worth adding a page which deals with that. The problem I'm seeing is that according to space law, terrorist collaboration demands execution following a verdict from a tribunal, yet on the wiki's space law page it doesn't mention anything about loyalty implanting changing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 For reference since I saw it posted here.. Server is not light RP. It's medium, but the Greytide nonsense as of late tends to reduce that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts