The future of the Wizard Gamemode (Unoffical Poll)

[Accinator50]

Wizard as a game mode is a very controversial topic, but most people agree that it's not fun to have rounds that usually end after 20 minutes because the wizard dies, but not much has been done to solve the problem. After the removal of the round start blob, I decided to make an unofficial poll to get the server's (and maybe the staffs') opinion on the wizard. This poll is unofficial and the result is only an indication of what the server wants, not what will happen to the game mode!

 

I have come up with 6 options which I will briefly explain below. Feel free to add your own options and/or thoughts in the comment section!

1.       Make it a major midround

 

Wizards are usually less of a threat than xenos/blobs/terror spiders/..., simply because most wizards die after causing minimal to moderate destruction. Making them a major mid-round would be a (hopefully) refreshing alternative to the other mid-rounds and it would remove the short wizard rounds from rotation.

Considering that some players are able to wreak a decent amount of havoc while playing wizard, it would be comparable to the other mid-rounds. However, some changes could be made to the spawn chance and to the spells (removing too strong spells, adding weaker ones) to ensure that it is not too much of a threat for a major mid-round.

 

2.       Turn it into raging mages

Raging mages would make each wizard round last much longer than it does now. It would also cause much more chaos, comparable to an average Nukie round. However, this could easily be too chaotic or stressful for players and make the game mode less fun for the player base.

 

3.       Increase the chance to roll the gamemode

 

Many people argue that the reason most wizards die so early is because they simply don't have the experience, as most people only play wizards after hundreds of hours of normal playtime. By (temporarily) increasing the chance of the game mode, the player base could learn how to play a wizard. After the average player's skill has increased, this could be reversed.

 

4.       Make the round continue after the wizard died (potentially reroll the gamemode/add other antags)

By continuing the round after the wizard died, you don't have to start the round over and potentially lose any progress you have made on personal projects. Adding a chance to spawn more antags also keeps departments like medbay or security from getting bored, as it doesn't become a guaranteed extended round. The problem with this is that sometimes wizards cause too much chaos for the round to simply continue. In these cases, however, the captain could be allowed to call the shuttle.

 

5.       Remove it.

In case somebody really dislikes the gamemode.

 

6.       Leave it as it is

There’s nothing wrong with the gamemode.

 

7.      Simply buff it

Adding more powerful spells or more spell points would make the wizard more powerful. This would create the problem that not only experienced players could become unstoppable, but also that it might not change much.

(Don't take this as a criticism of our coding team. I just want to point out that this will probably be the case, since at least as far as I know they have tried to do it this way so far. The problem here (in my opinion) is that we depend on volunteers, who of course cannot be forced to do ten different PRs to add more spells. The other options would actually only require one PR (like increasing the gamemode's spawn chance))

 

8.       Other (Comment)

Comment your own ideas or like the suggestion of other players!

Edited March 27, 2023 by Accinator50
More spaaaace

[Skajaw]

I like point 4 ( Make the round continue after the wizard died (potentially reroll the gamemode/add other antags)) the most. My biggest problem with wizzard is the attitude/behaviour of the crew. As soon as the Wizz is confirmed (which happens almost immediately after roundstart 90% of the time), it feels like the crew is split in two groups. One half stops doing whatever they're supposed to do and start hunting the wizz like madmen (like they do when its blob time). The other half doesnt care to do anything because there is no reason to do so. When the wizzard dies, the round is over and most of the time it happens really quickly. Why bothering doing anything this round.

 

All other points, except removing wizz, cause thats just not good (also we lost enough antags in the past), are way to arguable for me.

[Sadhorizon]

While I like option four the most, it does have some issues.

Wizard can permakill nerds easily, with stuff like ei'nath (Yes, you can transplant their brain. No, nobody likes being bald human named monkey(726)), cluwne transformation or wand of polymorph.
While yes, captain can call the shutttle if situation gets too bad, what if it's bearable? Someone's afternoon, during which they wanted to play spess, just got denied.

Another thing that came to my mind - other transformation spells. Mime one and clown one. They are just annoying after wizard dies. While I believe they could be fun to RP, I am also sure at least some players would reach for russian revolver.
This one could MAYBE be fixed, if deemed bad enough, with possibly reverting the curse upon wizard's death?

I still LIKE that option however - it adds concequences to wizard rounds and creates some work for crew, who could focus on fixing the wizard's masterpiece.

[Sirryan2002]

I have expressed my issues with Wizard in the past, especially during my office hours where I've talked about the design of the game mode extensively. The biggest key issues with Wizard are as follows:

• The game is currently designed for players to begin investing heavily in their roundstart job from the get go to start working towards mid-game to end-game tier progression, almost all wizards don't show up for the first 10 minutes and some even take 20-35 minutes before going to the station. This leads to frustration as it completely round-ends any progression people have with non-antag related mechanics basically.
• Any wizard that is not immediately killed will remove people from the round permanently either directly or indirectly through polymorph or transformation spells which means a meaningful portion of active players now have to observe for the rest of the round or play in a role that is something which they do not want to play whatsoever (think polymorphed into a slime or a difference species)
• (as to choice 1) Wizard is not balanced to be a major round and the only way to balance it would be to significantly nerf wizard and completely rework most spells 
• Wizards can be incredibly anti-climatic especially if they're not great at wizarding, rounds should not end anti-climatically
• Wizard is still great content for the game, it should not just be removed

So how to solve these issues when you cannot just remove the gamemode? Wizard will need to undergo significant changes pending dynamic gamemodes if we successfully integrate that system into our codebase. Here is what I propose as the "other" option:

1. Wizard can no longer permanently remove any player from the round instantly, brains must be preserved upon death; Furthermore, the wizards spells should aim to injure and disable as opposed to kill (atleast with ease)
2. Polymorph spells are purely temporary
3. Entire round altering spells are completely removed (ghosts, guns, etc)
4. The end goal of the wizard is not just to sow chaos but to complete a few select objectives and then finish their run by completing a "ritual" which will in someway permanently alter the rules of the round. I.e. if the wizard succeeds with the ritual, for the rest of the round portals will randomly appear occasionally which spawn random simple mobs (almost like netherworld portal but slightly less lethal).

This not only prevents rounds by being completely derailed by a wizard but also punishes players for failing to contain the wizard in an interesting way that could actually be fun.

[Nerfection]

2 hours ago, Sirryan2002 said:

2. Polymorph spells are purely temporary

3. Entire round altering spells are completely removed (ghosts, guns, etc)

One possible way to do this , while still preserving the big-deal that is the wizard's death, would be to keep these spells and effects permanent until the wizard is killed. Rather than having the round just end at this point (which is something I've never heard anyone actually like) we could have a blip moment where all their spells are broken and the station has to pick up after itself. This would preserve the climatic moment of the wizard's death that we currently have, while doing a lot to unfuck the station from their magical machinations. I also think Sirryan's idea of having the brains remain from the wiz's more gibby spells would solve the issue of permadeath (even though personally I think more permadeath is more gooder).

[TheBadPerson]

Don’t try to make wiz rounds something they aren’t. It’s a war round, treat it as such. 
 

I don’t think it can be a mid round due to how chaotic and strong wizards are. I also don’t think continuing the round is the play either, as you’ll be often left with a station and crew in tatters, and any future antags will be dealing with a fully war-escalated crew. And yes I know de-escalation is a thing, but it usually doesn’t happen and you can’t un-order WTs. Furthermore, when a wiz round is confirmed everyone swaps into LRP murderbone mindset anyways, so I don’t think continuing the round has legs. Hard to have continuity after something like a wiz round. 
 

My issue with wizard is this; it gaslights you into thinking it’s a normal round type and then rugpulls you into a war round. Nukie rounds solve this problem with the declare war button which everyone presses because stealth ops are lame. When war is declared everyone knows what’s up, and if you don’t want to participate you at least know not to invest in your job, and you can cryo if you don’t want to play a war round. 
 

My proposal is this: Wizards get a time limit in their prep room before an automatic wizard federation announcement of declaration of war is declared. This would apply to both regular wiz rounds and ragin rounds. I think 5 minutes is fair, but obviously the amount of time is up for debate. 

This announcement would give people the heads up that this is not a normal round similar to nukies, and prevent people from being disappointed in investing into their jobs in a war round. 
 

I am aware that this would remove stealth wizardry from the equation, but in my opinion that is totally ok. I have never once enjoyed a stealth wizard gimmick, and I don’t know anyone who has. The worst round I ever played was an hour long wizard round where a stealth wizard just hid in maints and Ei Nathed people in secret before eventually being found 30 minutes in. The resulting 30 minute long chase against an instakilling disguised wizard with a full evasion loadout was mind numbing. 
 

Wizard is a disruptive and violent round. Stealth has no place in it, as it’s a war round type. It is essentially a Nukie round with Harry Potter instead of chainsaws and rifles. I say just make it what it is, and have a declaration of war. 

Hell if you declare war, this could even give you the excuse to change wizard to always be ragin to include more players, and give the crew an actual chance to start escalating. Now that could be fun, and give more people the chance to experience being a wiz. 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by TheBadPerson
Clarity

[ID404NotFound]

23 hours ago, TheBadPerson said:

I am aware that this would remove stealth wizardry from the equation, but in my opinion that is totally ok. I have never once enjoyed a stealth wizard gimmick, and I don’t know anyone who has. The worst round I ever played was an hour long wizard round where a stealth wizard just hid in maints and Ei Nathed people in secret before eventually being found 30 minutes in. The resulting 30 minute long chase against an instakilling disguised wizard with a full evasion loadout was mind numbing. 

I've done stealth wizard.

I teleported into mime office, became mime, got an ID from HoP, danced and was silly in front of bridge, whereupon the captain let me in. I ei'nathed him, yes, and misted away. During scry orb, ghosts tell me captain brain is being transplanted, but crew still doesnt know what happened, and thats where I finally figured out what I'm doing. I make my way into medical, steal the brain just before CMO is placing it into the new body, then as CMO chases me into the middle of medical, I ei'nath them too, somehow with no witnesses again, and take the brain. I then get the head of security in the halls, and the HoP in command, just as crew figures it out. My plan was to only kill command, then inform the crew they are free of their shackles, but the CE and a wily sec officer with a shotgun (old shotgun with slugs etc) got me before my plan could be realized.