Habalabam
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Posts posted by Habalabam
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Suggestion:
I would like the roboticist to be able to pop up the hood on cyborg subversion.
One way to accomplish this would be:
When lawsynch is pulsed, the borg should not have the option to not state individual laws.
I've played a bit as borg. I've never seen the "state laws" actually do anything useful. People do ask for the laws all the time, but it's not really useful.
All "bad" laws seem to have the note "Do not state or hint at this law" attached by default.
Cyborgs are powerful allies, there should be some risk involved by leaving your digital trace. Oftentimes, antags are stated by name in the laws. To capture a cyborg, bring it to the roboticist for the big "reveal" would add to the dramatic effect. And it would also force the hand of antags and rogue AI.
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And somehow, the organ from the acidic circulatory system is compatible with the host physiology? I don't like it. The whole xeno lore is about not being able to separate the jackpot from the monsters. Xeno parts and xeno eggs should be valuable, but only if it comes with the risk of the "domesticated"/incapacitated/incarcerated queen finding a way to breed. Thus, the greed of men spell their doom.
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They don't have to be alive to do surgery stuff, correct? So the organ harvest can be real. This should be a random event. A surgeon and/or CMO may be called upon to do some black market stuff.
XENOMORPHS can be cut up for organs but some notes, You need a plasma producing organ to use most powers, and don't try to lay an egg without a HIVENODE in you.
I didn't understand this at all. Of course, cutting up a xeno should have special equipment and protective gear. They should be valuable, indeed.
But does the last part mean ("don't try to lay an egg....") that you implant somebody else with a xeno organ and they get the ability to lay eggs? If so, I don't like it.
Otherwise, I love it. Departments such as medbay need opt-in side projects. Organ harvest rates about right on the creepy and cynicism scale. Being a doctor on a quiet round can be really boring. To be the one to extract queen gel gland from a xeno grandma is way cool.
Also, centcomm gets another range of possible faxes. It may demand xeno parts.... prompting the captain to organize an away party through the gateway.
I came to think of something:
Maybe a low level ling/vamp should be possible to identify using a physical examination. Like shining lights in the eyes or using the stethoscope. It could be randomized, so that putting a suspect through a physical examination wouldn't be a sure fire thing to eliminate someone as a suspect. But it would certainly make sense to ask a doctor to take a look at a suspected ling. And the only way to achieve that in-game is to introduce a possibility for in in-game payoff. It requires a little more thought, though, otherwise every security officer will be carrying a pocket light and a stethoscope, which makes little sense.
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Ok. This may be borderline as far as the forum rules go.
What SS13 attributes would the Shkreli have? Like a passive AoE ability causing vomiting?
Any sprite suggestion?
Trader, geneticist or virologist?
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Medbay is very quiet at the start of a shift, lest there is some antaggy shenanigans afoot.
I believe more workstations should idle well. You shouldn't have to sit dead quiet waiting for someone to need your services.
I have a couple of suggestions and I want to see if any of them get any traction.
- Combine chemistry and chemical research. The chemist usually has little reason to stay after stocking up the fridge. Why has the map devs separated is on-demand work and his idling work into two separate jobs? The chemist can be formally under the RD (since the RD is likely to give up the geneticist). There should be a service desk and fridge accessible from medbay. Maybe we can even have a chemist that sticks around...
- Put genetics and virology closer to make it possible to jump between the two. Both of these have little on-demand work a regular day, but both can suddenly become swamped. Together they have enough side projects to keep things interesting for longer than today. So, in a slow shift, a bored geneticist can be elevated to a "medical researcher" and swing a bit back and forth between the two functions.
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I vote for the CMO. The geneticist critical function is that of the CMO. Their research is a bonus and does not factor into the research levels, protolathe stuff or anything. Granted, that geneticists don't have the patience to stick around. I think this is because of the lack of an SoP, which again attracts the people who just want to grab the goodies and then leave.
No reason why geneticist should be assumed to be easier bored than, say, the surgeon, who has even less things to pass the time with.
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Same caliber HP should be superior to AP when shooting an unarmed target, correct?
Correct. Except that it's not unarmed you're thinking of, it's unarmored.
Yes, indeed. Thanks.
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And when is a civvy carrying a tool meta, Habalabam?
When it is in anticipation for the shit to hit the fan, which is not something that their character would have knowledge of.
Would you be hoarding these tools if the game was about socializing in the bar?
If this was a game about trade, would you accept that grabbing these items would be petty theft and a chance of getting caught.
Would the station look like it does at the beginning of shift if this behavior was normal on this station?
This is supposed to be an average day, the noon shift reports for duty. But then, some disastrous thing happens. A lot of hoarding may take place as a rational response to it, but hoarding proactively is certainly meta. I don't know what else to say, unless you give me some clue as to where you lose track or you have another definition of the word.
And, no, this isn't "heavy RP". Not grabbing what isn't yours isn't "heavy RP".
Vox are spawned with their SCBA.
Humans are not spawned with medkits.
If you conclude that IPC need for cable/welder is somewhere in between, then I'd say that the debate is about if they should spawn with spare wires/welders, not that they should scavenge. The need for welder didn't change from 11:59 to 12:00, when the shift started.
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Same caliber HP should be superior to AP when shooting an unarmed target, correct?
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There is a slight discrepancy that the captain deemed capable of handling a blob is deemed incapable of deciding that an ERT is needed to fight the blob.
I realize that some restraint is needed for balance and that this is how it is handled IC'ly, but just thought I would share the observation.
Blob is a threat to the existence of the station, which is a major NT asset. Maybe CC could have a "ERT in ten minutes" button, which resulted in a fax saying that the ERT was currently busy, but would be underway ASAP. It would also change the dynamic of the battle if captain/HoS could prioritize containment in a "Hang in there. ERT in seven minutes!!" type of fashion.
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To me it's weird that the person is paralyzed, but still yapping and operating the radio headset.
Alternatively, hypnotize could be a silent ability until the two seconds was passed.
Or the red text could appear only when/if the subject (inadvertently) broke eye contact. So people would be hesitant about facing and talking to a suspected vampire. Which makes sense, lore wise.
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If this suggestion is accepted, then the interface to control this can be very similar to the "state laws" dialog box.
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I'm so bad that I that I don't play ling/vamp/shadowling to avoid embarassing the species.
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Innert? Do you mean "moot"?
Like most petty crime, the relevance depends on the round.
This round is supposed to be the shift where the shit hits the fan. The shift starts out as normal, but this is the day where "The thing" took us (changeling), the xenos came, the blob gestated or whatever.
During such a situation, the station will deteriorate. Anarchy will come. You will see typical "Fallout" survivalist characters roaming or barricaded with heavy outfit. All fine.
But the current state of gameplay is that the round starts out as a mad dash for goodies. 30 minutes into the round, the station will appear looted. Players that were in normal outfits ten minutes ago will be at the ready to barricade against the zombie apocalypse in anticipation for the round type to be revealed. Without any indication of foul play on the comms, this is clearly meta. To enforce petty crime is a way to deal with this meta IC'ly/i].
I think it would be interesting to see a statistics how many non-antags are breaking into low security areas. It's a continuation of the same thing.
In my experience, the person who is too late for the immediate goodies will, without missing a stride, proceed to break into the assembly area. The guy who is late to the assembly area will break into the north east electrical maintenance. All non antags. And the players will genuinely think that this is nobody's business, even when talking to security.
If you want the outfit to deal with the situation, then put in the effort to get your act together and put on the uniform.
This may sound like extra work for security, but it will actually make security more manageable.
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More security officers. Hoarders want the gear without the hassle of being security. Those unwilling to give up the gear will have to sign up.
- The term "suspicious character" will actually make sense. The botanist with insulated gloves, gas mask and full set of tools that you encounter in maintenance with no good explanation for any of it may actually be an antag.
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Have people actually read the book or seen the movie from which the Asimov set originates? The plot device of the story is how fundamentally flawed the lawset is.
The canon interpretation is that the robots conclude that humans should not be allowed freedom that would increase their risk of harming themselves.
No. Anyone and everyone is allowed to carry around tools here.I'm talking about the canon interpretation of the Asimov set. How it relates to SoP or Space law wouldn't be relevant to a (literalist) borg.
We're not high-RP. That would be an unacceptable thing to do.I see this "we're not high-RP" line being thrown around a lot in here. Hardly ever is it used in a context that makes sense. The word does not mean what you think it means.
This has no bearing on "RP level".
It's a literalist interpretation of the lawset just like the the borg letting a clown into the vault under the 2nd rule. The latter is not "deeper RP" than the former. It's just an alternate literalist interpretation that is better founded in the actual cultural reference.
To clarify: The person I'm faced with would be the person who has initiated the situation and persists, refusing to accept that the borg will not let him into that vault/bridge/captains office.
If someone is heavily argumentative that a borg should be following the literal interpretation of the ruleset to gain access to high security areas, then I believe it wouldn't be out of place to serve them the canon ultimate conclusion of said ruleset.
Some warning for SS13 etiquette, of course, but a clear indication that this is the direction we're heading unless the person is dropping the subject.
Nobody finding the irony worthwhile?
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Thanks for the answers.
I do believe that there is some disagreement when it comes civilians being crew, to it would be nice to have a staff clarify it in here.
From the answers in this thread, I have another question:
The Asimov ruleset stems from the novel "I, robot". The story twist is that the first law is basically a blanco check to disempower humans completely so that they are rendered unable to do harm to themselves. Since free life comes with a certain risk, the storyline is that robots would inevitably come to the conclusion that putting you in a gag with a straight jacket is the most literal interpretation of the Asimov ruleset.
If we are talking about acting out literal interpretations of the law for laughs, then the literalist interpretation from the cultural reference (the "I, robot" novel) itself would be the most canon.
So, my question: If I saw a civilian with a welding tool, for which he lacks the formal training (being a civilian), would it be acceptable to stun the person and remove it from him under the guise of preventing him from injuring himself?
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1. You may not injure a crew member or, through inaction, allow a crew member to come to harm.
2. You must obey orders given to you by crew members, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
Assume that you are a janibot.
You clean up a bloody mess in security and pass a cell on the way out.
The person in it orders you to let him out.
The prisoner will demand you state your laws and insist on the literalist interpretation.
The only concern to take precedence over that order would be the direct injury of another crew member.
How should the conversation progress?
Keep in mind that the AI is under same ruleset.
I don't think it is in good form of another player to try to "hack" the system like that. The Asimov ruleset is a cool touch, but would be counterproductive to be followed literally as the borg has all-access.
Edit:
Also, are civilians "crew"? Not only as far as concerned the 1st law, but also the 2nd? Passengers, visitors and tourists would never be referred to as "crew" in any context that I know of where a "crew" exists. Even though they will of course be on the manifest of the plane/ship/facility/whatever.
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I believe the HoS should have the knowledge of dangerous weapons on the station and at least should at some point make a decision as to whether or not post a guard to make sure that the items aren't stolen.
These SOP's are going to tie into eachother. If you believe the HoS is hampering the application of new research in the security department, then maybe you should take a look at the SOP for security. And maybe the coders should be able to give Security some love so that the Security dept minute-by-minute play is possible to support from the HoS office. Right now, the HoS is most often the badass robocop more than an administrator.
And:
A: HoP, can I be borged?
HoP: No.
A: I resign. Can I be borged
HoP: Yes.
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I know. This SoP project is looking promising.
Suddenly the head position makes sense. Suddenly the IA position makes sense. Suddenly the motivation for selecting a job is not the free reign of a goodie bag.
Maybe the "play your role" part of the general server rules should point out that it's unlikely that a person who does not care about SoP would be holding an SoP regulated position.
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As everybody seems to agree that no department head (including HoP) outrank any other, regardless of the order of succession as Captain, then it would be good if the SoP reflected that.
I believe it is a common misconception that the HoP by definition is second in command.
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It is my understanding that:
The RD does not outrank the CMO.
The HoP does not outrank the CMO.
Both are just going to be promoted to captain before CMO if the captain is lost.
If RD outranks the CMO in matters relating to robotics, then it's the RD's department. Not a shared department.
If either both or either approval is needed, then it is a shared department.
I believe genetics should report to the CMO because he is the one whose department responsibility (cloning) depends on their highest priority function, which is life critical. They should not do research when there are bodies to clone.
But even if genetics is under the RD department, then it's perfectly doable that giving powers to non-command requires a CMO approval. Just like borging requiring an HoP approval.
Though it happens in SS13, I don't think SOP should consider eventualities like "if the Captain does not care". The captain, formally, cares about everything, but has usually delegated much responsibility.
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Command succession is not the same as chain of command.
RD does not command CMO or medbay until RD replaces Captain.
Roboticist should answer to the RD. Aside from due diligence, the Roboticist is not responsible for the RD overriding the Captain.
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I'm against it. I feel that this is motivated by engineering feeling that they have little opportunity to showcase their skills. After a blob, engineering certainly become the focus of attention and is currently "deprived" of the key role they would play in restoring station operation. But, in the case of a blob aftermath, I feel that this would be to the detriment of the rest of the players who are likely to have no workstation or functioning department for the rest of the round.
Even if explicitly designed as a scenario, it would be very hard to balance the engineering challenge to the engineering department capacity. It's simply too much variation that would have to match the level of competence available.
I do agree that engineering have little long term goals. But I feel that these goals should be "opt in". Like, if the xenoarch site is marginally effective, but engineering can turn it into a super-duper facility. Or restoring the derelict.
TLDR; I fear this this change, for every success, will result in X number of cases where a crippled crew is left with a crippled station. The whole round experience for everyone shouldn't depend on such a dice roll.
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What about straying from their workstation? Under blue alert, should prolonged absence be communicated to the department head? At red alert, all crew should remain at their posts, correct?
An idea for a subantagonist.
in Suggestions
Posted
I like the forger. I like the idea that subantags can try to "set up shop" some place that security can come across. They can start the round with a one-shot RCD that creates the forge machine / distillery / body part packager / antag AI frame / Antag protolathe and maybe a turret or two.
The antag will themselves have to find a good spot and hook the devices up with power.
I don't think an antag should delete all research. It's too "griefy" and irreversible (I assume, I am no scientist). But to escape with a complete backup might be good.