[Traitor items - A few revision suggestions]

I agree that some kind of buff to the poison bottles are needed.

2 tc for a poison bottle is a ridiculous cost given how overcrowded the map is. Poisons are often not worth using outside a few select ones, clever mixes and the really cheesy ones(nanites). 

I think a poison kit that includes amantin is interesting, because it at least it prevents the victim from being able to run to medbay and get cured the instant they start feeling sick.

Not so sure about the other inclusions, i have not tested formaldehyde much but sulfanol and cyanide are very slow and underwhelming on their own.

[Economy from TG]

I have been playing on tg everyday for a week now, and while their economy does NOT seem to be persistent even their shoddily implemented half baked economy rework is still vastly superior to the paradise system, this is best illustrated by the fact that despite tg terry being a very low RP server, people actually sell items and pay each other for services rendered far more often than on paradise! 

One of the most important features is easing transactions by allowing players to withdraw credit holochips from their ID by alt clicking it. Even their barebones implementation would be be a great addition to paradise.

Thoughts on persistence:

I agree that there are issues with a permanent economy. i suggest instead option for a semipermanent economy that resets after x(10,20 30) days. This would mitigate a lot of the issues such as inflation, extreme wealth imbalances and getting robbed or going broke is not as big of a deal.

The IC justification for this could be that NT reserves the right to manage your savings and end up losing it all due to risky investments.

This would still reward more active player and players of higher paid roles. This is a good thing in my opinion as this social stratification can foster RP.

Of course in my ideal implementation, the player would be able to set two withdrawal limits one for their card and one for the ATM, this way theft would be limited but still possible.

A player who mains assistants and does not regularly play might not be able to buy a full set of tools at roundstart but instead have to choose only the most essential ones, ask cargo or scavenge maint. Is that really so horrible? That incentivises them to actually take jobs assisting other departments and its actually matters to them if they are caught misbehaving and as a result have their tools confiscated.

Poor player wont be able to empty the chemfridge but instead have to rely on doctors to treat them, is that so bad? SS13 is not an E-sport its a RPG, its okay if not all players start the round on a completely equal footing if it fosters RP.

PS: While i personally would like to see this kind of semi persistent system implemented i think paradise staff are too conservative to attempt to any kind persistent economy as it would have a decent risk of failure i do however believe that some kind of tg style(nonpersistent) rework could feasibly become reality.

[On the topic of Encryption Keys]

You can justify anything if you set your mind to it. Allowing the use of the advanced pinpointer would made even more IC sense.

The traitor antagonist type is weak as it is, when was the last time it received a buff?

52 minutes ago, Sihsse Zsak said:

Remember that it isn't about completing the objectives as an agent its about making the game fun and interesting for everyone with how you approach the role. While a compromised Encryption Channel may make it a little more difficult to co-ordinate and accomplish those objectives it can also give you a new and interesting approach to them.

 

The server rules state that "you must work towards your objectives, not general mayhem." Given how limited antag freedom is on paradise, being able to actually have a shot at completing your objectives matters a lot.

This change does nothing to the solo antagonist who uses the key to spy on the sec and command channels all it does it prevent traitor teamplay. That is not new or interesting in anyway.

[What other servers do you play on outside of Para?]

I am playing on /tg/ now while i am banned from para, mechanically and content wise its far superior in almost all areas outside of the medical and atmos systems.

However few player make an effort to RP and many instead decide to constantly spout stale memes. Also the movement speed is far too fast.

I've had a chance to test their golem implementation and its a lot of fun. I had a great time breaking into xenobio, stealing adamantine bars for golem shells and making my own band of plastic golem thieves.

On /tg/ there are a massive amount of different golem types with varying abilities. Plastic golems can vent crawl and pass through plastic flaps. This not only makes them great thieves but also lets you build them a thieves den that is impassible to outsiders due to all the plastic flaps everywhere.

[Syndicate Item Purchase Stats]

1 hour ago, AzuleUtama said:

It does at times feel more like a cheap firecracker than an actual explosive. You could put that 1TC towards the suspicious toolbox and bring down multiple walls. It even comes with some nice gloves!

 I totally agree i was recently permabanned for attempting to get revenge on the HoS by blowing up his locker with C4(as a nonantag) and the C4 did not even bust open the locker. I have never bought C4 but when i find it abandoned somewhere it is almost always worse than useless. 

For it to be useful it should at least reliably destroy the thing you place it on.

Many of these underused items could really use a buff considering the recent nerf of the syndie key and the sad state of the traitor antagonist type in general.

[On the topic of Encryption Keys]

5 minutes ago, davidchan said:

 if security is allowed to use "Dangerous Contraband" they find that carries a 10-15 minute brig sentence for any non-sec crew caught with it.

Isn't the key S-class contraband that carries a permanent imprisonment sentence? It's not an directly harmful item and could easily be reclassified as C-contraband.

[On the topic of Encryption Keys]

10 minutes ago, necaladun said:

Already being worked on and pre-approved. We're looking at Agent (colour name). (because reservoir dogs).

That implementation would work really well with the codespeak manual from /tg/. For a few more tc you and your buddies could get privacy despite sec listening in.

/tg/ Codespeak manual

EDIT:

Quote

Code language only syndies can speak might work.... 

I didn't see you had already considered this! Great minds think alike.

[On the topic of Encryption Keys]

36 minutes ago, necaladun said:

This isn't really removing it from being able to be used by traitors to co-ordinate - you just need to make sure to call out if you're about to have comms be compromised. If it's early in the round and no tators have been caught, then it's still risk free (assuming someone doesn't rat you out, which was always a risk.).

You cant count on that, ive been taken in for questioning because a sec officer heard me speak on sec coms early in the round because some bald syndie got caught immediately. If sec are empowered to spy on the syndie channel, no one is going to risk this.'

39 minutes ago, necaladun said:

Re: It's too good

This is more about the cost - how much benefit you get for 2tcs. A 2tc item that allows you to just listen to sec comms would often be worth that cost.

 Other options we're looking at are dividing it into two items (one for syndie communication, one for tapping into station comms).

I agree that the item is too powerful and that it could probably be split into two items. However traitor does not need any nerfs, if anything many of underused items should be made cheaper or more powerful.

[On the topic of Encryption Keys]

This is a very strange nerf to a type of antagonist that already has a very low rate of objective completion.

This does not affect the most powerful use of the key but instead completely kills its most fun and interesting aspect, more broadly this is going to severely cripple agent cooperation as this was facilitated almost exclusively through the syndicate channel.

The reasons stated necaladun does not make any sense to me.

 

 

[My sprites(work in progress)]

Here is a gadget, my idea for this is like a expendable luxury item that lets you gild your gun or other suitable item. Who wouldn't like a golden stechkin?

EDIT: The handle is hard to see against the background.

[fears that barely anyone else relates to]

On 10/3/2018 at 3:35 PM, Xyd said:

Earwigs... I hate... Earwigs. Mother of god. EARWIGS!

Spoiler

 

Here is a great video on them to alleviate your fears, they apparently have a pretty robust combat system.

PS. Earwig Kidan when?

[Dumb ideas and suggestions]

The vault now contains belt of the great hunter, any player wearing the belt is allowed to validhunt, but it also lets any antagonist kill them for no reason.

[Golem diversity]

I am not much of a xenobiology player but i like the golems and golem spam rounds can be very memorable. 

I recently found out that TG has an amazing selection of golem types. 

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Golem

Some are just slightly more robust but other types such as the plastic, glass, sand and cloth golems have very interesting abilities.

I think this would be a very fun system to port, both for the xenobiologist and the golems.

Do you think it would take a lot of effort to port this?

Let me know what you think

[My sprites(work in progress)]

Here is a sleek black, red and slightly suspicious pen. It might be a little long.

I wish i had some kind of logo or colorscheme to work off for Waffle Co and Donk Co promotional pens as well.

[Economy from TG]

1 hour ago, Burkhardt said:

That's because the rounds are too short and the character has too many credits. you can buy everithing you want without the risk of remaining with 0 credits

That is more of an ooc reason than an IC reason, presumably your character has a desire to obtain more credits. I will accept and offer credits as payment because it is better for RP, but it doesn't feel good because the credits are so damn useless. 

Some kind of overhaul is needed and if a persistent economy is too hard to manage, we should at least consider reworking the current round based system by adding more desirable items for purchase, rebalancing the slot machines and easing credit handling by letting you deposit or withdraw credits at the ATM with only a short 4-5 digit pin code.

[My sprites(work in progress)]

Here comes some different handbag patterns for the set of luxury items i am drawing, they are still very much wip, if i decide i like them i will do the on character sprites as well.

[Economy from TG]

21 minutes ago, Calecute said:

[...]So there are two ways of making credits more meaningful, we can either restrict free things, or we can allow credit to buy currently forbidden things. I'm not sure we're willing to do either. . [...]

I suggest adding a whole new range of credit purchasable luxury foods, drinks, clothes and other assorted luxury items.

Have you become filthy rich under this system? Don't worry there are thing to spend your fortune on.

Want impress your fellow Tarajans by only eating the finest imported Chinese gold hamsters? only 15 000 credits per cage of 3.

You could even pay the chef extra to cook you a meal using the finest ingredients, perhaps you fancy a 9 000 credit wheel of blue cheese? No problem

As long the credits are useful to someone they will start flowing and soon you will be able to buy all kinds of goods and services(including stolen goods, for all you greytiders).

(Sprites are WIP)

[Economy from TG]

12 hours ago, Tayswift said:

[...]This is an LRP system meant for an LRP server.

I disagree, credits lacking any real value is a LRP system.

Most player do not care or even bother using credits, only a few dedicated RP'er accept credits as payment and when you do, it doesn't feel good or meaningful. 

The current credit system is broken, for example, the vault only has like 7000 credits when gamblers regularly win 100 000 or even 1000 000 000 credits. 

If rampant embezzlement of station funds by the heads and inflation could be kept in check this could be a great system. 

Warning, my dreams start here!

You could introduce new traveling salesman jobs tasked with selling a variety of goods to the station and sending credits back to HQ, thus removing credits from the economy and giving rich people or departments something to spend money on.

One round you could get a Donk Co salesman peddling boxes of the new spicy donk pockets to the crew, another you could have an antagonist salesman from a syndicate affiliated corporation trying to bribe the HoP with fine champagne and designer bags in order to embezzle the stations funds.

I think having an economy could create some great RP opportunities.

(Here is the champagne sprite is drew as an example of a credit sink or trader item.)

[Economy from TG]

1 hour ago, davidchan said:

[...]I'm am doubtful that jobs like [...] Chaplain have any reliable source of income[...]

Chaplain will be the best job ever if this is implemented.

"God spoke to me today and told me to obtain a 50 million credit space pod, we need to spread the gospel to Mauna-b, hallelujah!"

[Economy from TG]

I would love it if this was implemented as it would make credits actually feel valuable and lead to better RP around work for hire, bribes, setting up your own shop and the fencing of stolen goods.

 

[My sprites(work in progress)]

Here comes 3 sprites depicting a beryllium copper wrench, intended to have the same stats or nearly the same stats as a normal wrench but feel more rare and exclusive. Beryllium alloy tools are much more expensive than steel tools but do not create sparks when stuck against a hard surface and are therefore are used out in the real world when working near flammable material(Such as plasma on a plasma research station perhaps?).

My idea for the use of this sprite is that this wrench would be stored in the CE's office, the secure storage or QM's office, and be given out as a reward for good work or stolen by greytiders.

I've made two different shades so far and one with a lighter outline, the outlines of two of the sprites are probably way too dark.

[More greytide gratifying stealables!]

47 minutes ago, ZN23X said:

 

It is unimaginably annoying and stressful when its code red and there is a known dangerous threat on the station and some dipshit is getting in the way cuz "lel muh pranks" completely ignoring the fact that half of security is dead and the rest are already overworked.

I find that most rounds security actually has the upper hand and are not killed en masse and, I have played a lot of coroner lately and most round not a single sec officer end up in the morgue. On the flip side quite a number of antagonists are taken out of the round each shift and only one or two usually greentext.

And this is despite many sec officer being new, horribly bald and unrobust.

So many of the stories of SS13 involve greytide in one way or another, I dont think throwing a tiny little bone to this essential part of the playerbase or updating the rules to more reflect how they are actually enforced are going to change this dynamic much.

When i say greytiding, I am talking of burglary during cling / vampire / traitor rounds mainly. If you are taking a break from chasing a fully powered vampire to extract some assistant from the kitchen, you got your priorities wrong.

[More greytide gratifying stealables!]

Of course you COULD be stricter on tiding, but you could also be more permissible. 

I think tiding should be allowed on red and security should have to prioritize how much resources they spend to chase the tiders down. This already how it defacto works, the no tiding on red rule is seemingly not enforced at all.

Just because disaster strikes does not mean petty crime stops.

I actually think greytiding adds to the game by providing tension, unpredictability and low stakes arrests for sec.

Me selling the genuine Bob Ross to the bartender or giving all of captains clothes to the clown is not going to ruin anyone's round.

 

[Delta station first impressions]

I played my first round of delta station last night and i would like to collect your observations in this thread.

 I was an "assistant" and syndicate agent, so i did not get to explore the inner workings of too many departments. But i did break into a couple of places and explored much of maintenance.

The things i liked:

• Spacious maintenance with loops and open areas that lets you evade security or antagonists
• The greater prevalence of secure airlocks
• The little space hiding places at the stations outer edge, this perfect for when you are escaping perma or staging a break in from space

The things i disliked.

• Maintenance is too clean, i think it needs to be gritter, have more clutter and less floor tiles. Metastation does this it really well. Many of the areas felt like seldom used storage rooms rather than the really creepy old building you find when urban exploring.(There should be a mixture of the two types of room, of course). 
• The tech storage lacks goodies, when i broke in there was no insulated gloves, mesons nor the boards required to set up a public RND.
• The public autolathe removes all value from tools and related items, this combined with the fact there is a public pipe dispenser in maint removes any challenge from crafting a shotgun and bag full of ammo.

I also noticed that some things appear to be broken or straight up missing, i will expand on this later.

Over all, I like the station a lot, and think it has great potential once the kinks have been worked out.

Please share your first impressions of delta station in this thread.

[Make greys immune to fluorosulfuric acid]

10 minutes ago, Trubus said:

I thought sulfuric acid was placed in

Greys are immune to sulphuric acid. I have never seen sulphuric acid weaponized. How much damage does it cause compared to the more commonly seen fluorosulphuric acid?

Both are strong acids, its not unimaginable that greys would be immune to both. Neither seem to be used as weapons very often.

Being able to social engineer the chemist in order to obtain fluorosulphuric acid would allow this fragile race a couple of more ways of fighting smarter.