Rurik
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Posts posted by Rurik
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59 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:
In this specific scenario, a swarmer was inside the permabrig area, causing problems and doing its usual thing. It attempted to escape elsewhere via the pipe system to continue causing problems. A pipe was unwrenched and removed to prevent them from getting away, and they were destroyed.
This is a vastly different case from 'lol imma just unwrench this pipe preemptively and leave it there just cause'. There was context and proper reasoning/ motivation behind the action of removing the pipe and it was in a relatively contained area. The actions taken made sense and in character.
I agree, that is vastly different. One fucks over the entirety of vent crawling antags with uncounterable play and the other only a specific individual of vent crawling antags with uncounterable play before being repaired. Despite being localized and only done to stop a specific marauding swarmer/spider/xeno, it is still uncounterable and quite frankly unfair. I don't see anything that can be learned by it from the antags perspective, other than "get fucked for harassing this specific area." Why would we want to allow that? I'm aware not everything in ss13 is fair but for antags that rely heavily on vent crawling it is particularly egregious and I don't think making it acceptable is a good idea.
Should be noted, I'm not intending to come off as rude or trying to question the merits of the 'fore-mentioned debacle with the swarmers and perma. Just trying to understand the reasoning of such a precedent going forward.-
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Rule 0 Precedent to which I am referring:
QuoteDeliberately breaking the atmos net in order to hamper antags that use it (xenos, borers, terrors, headcrabs, atmostechs, etc) counts as breaking this rule. Regardless of your job and/or antag status. This includes making the air distribution pipenet damaging to crawl through, creating "traps" in the net, obscuring the exit of pipes with objects, or unwrenching almost any pipe. The only time you can unwrench a pipe to hinder ventcrawling antags is if you see a specific ventcrawling antag, in a specific room, then you're allowed to unwrench the pipe only to that specific room, and reconnect it after the ventcrawling antag is no longer there. You must reconnect it before going on to disconnect any other pipe, anywhere. Welding vents/scrubbers is always okay once ventcrawling antags are known to be on the station, and does not fall under this rule.
Specifically about:
QuoteThe only time you can unwrench a pipe to hinder ventcrawling antags is if you see a specific ventcrawling antag, in a specific room, then you're allowed to unwrench the pipe only to that specific room, and reconnect it after the ventcrawling antag is no longer there.
This was a recent clarification, but the fact that it is an exception at all is odd.
Unwrenching the pipes is uncounterable. Theres is nothing a vent crawling antag can do about it. Half of the time the UI doesn't update when it is unwrenched until you pop out of a vent and re-enter, thus having it so antags mistakenly believe the pipe is still fastened and suddenly get thrown out. Even if it does render, it is easily missible and instantly puts said antag in a bad spot that can easily end in them dead (and even if, say, a terror spider manages to kill an engi that unwrenched in front of the spider, what then? Then the engi can't repair the pipe and every spider is fucked over for it).
Unwrenching a pipe at *all* to fuck over an antag is a dick move, violating the nature of rule 0. This should not be an exception to the rule. There is no reason for it. There exists other ways to counter ventcrawling antags based on which antag it is. It abuses the piping system in the main flaw it has: the inability to climb into a open pipe without a vent. Might as well be an exploit that, to my understanding, is unfixable.
This exception does not belong on paradise. I urge a removal of said exception, or at least a discussion on why it is being kept despite its contrarian nature to our rules.
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Personally, I like the possibility of being ambushed and nearly instantly killed at any point in given time. Adds a bit of paranoia and to the danger. It's only annoying when you are assassination targeted multiple rounds in a row, perhaps even by several traitors (and of course if the traitor is sweaty stealth kill into decap into microwaved brain).
Then again, it's been ages since I was targeted via assassination objective and actually killed, and most traitors don't do the sweaty tryhard strat, either from not wanting to or not knowing how.
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A player should never be looking for excuses to kill off sec and permanently hide bodies, but, on a side note, slings are by nature usually short rounds yes? Murderboning isn't nearly as much as a problem if its done in a 30 min round as opposed to a 2 hour slog. I mean, the entire problem with murderboning is that it leads to players twiddling their thumbs till the next round starts, which is commonly an hour or more. As long as the murder has an actual reason and round is short, it could hardly be a huge problem, yes?
After all, dying isn't inherently bad. It's the innate fact of being forced to wait for a new round/alt-tab and do something else that's a net negative & leaves a sour taste in ones mouth.
On 11/20/2020 at 10:59 PM, Aza said:because now I have a valid reason to kill off security and hide their bodies permanently.
Unsure if your post is satirical or not, but no antag should be hiding bodies/effectively permakilling unless their objective calls for it (aka assassination objectives). I used to permakill back in the day too until I learned better, but the quicker people know that permakilling/hiding bodies that aren't their objective makes them look like an asshole, the better.
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I feel like people are thinking too deep on this one. I can't speak for others, but as a sec main myself, this has nothing to do with changing mentalities, promoting antags to "play nicer" or even promote rp. It is solely to give magistrates the option to parole in non-emergencies without breaking SOP. Which they deserve to have.
If we're worried it'll happen too often then make it Magi + Hos/Captain. Two out of three vote. It'll be a lot rarer then. However, if it has to be unanimously agreed by all three, parole will never happen. There's always someone who will screech about an antag or someone who had antag gear getting out, no matter how deserving they were.
There also seems to be a misunderstanding over the type who will be paroled. The idea isn't to "give antags another shot." Its to give flexibility on paroling those who security aren't entirely sure are antags to begin with, or those who quite clearly aren't a threat without their TC that has been confiscated. And it won't be given just for being "kind." It would be given for no attempts of escape, actively disregarding chances to walk out freely (for example with the brig virus opens all the airlocks and a perma prisoner stays), been complacent and helpful all shift, and typically when there's only twenty minutes left in the round anyway.
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Fully support this. Offering more leeway for generous magistrates to parole deserving prisoners that will be of little threat without TC and with a tracking implant is always a plus.
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>Adding new mechanics for service jobs (clown can make balloon animals, librarian can curate books or have a book that boosts them, bartender can use alcohol to stay awake / nullify pain, chef can sell items in a vendor though that does eliminate food poisoning as a thing, etc)
When it comes to bartender, TG could be something to work off of. They have it so (according to their wiki) drinks have an actual effect other than "lol xd your drunk now." Pain resist from alcohol might be interesting. Being able to drink more than a beer or two without being hammered might help too. The effects of TG's drinks also differ from whose drinking it, for example one (Changeling Sting) restores chemicals for changeling. Another (Quadruple Sec) heals security for 1 tick across all parts.
If we have a system even half as expansive as TG's drink system goes, bartender would be thrice the fun. Or at least, see a lot more visitors.
QuoteMechs. Mechs are immune to many things (atmos, chems, disablers, tasers, etc) can punch through walls, self-repair, self-recharge from APCs, pack a huge variety of (normally lockboxed) weapons, and are perhaps the strongest weapon accessible to the crew. They even get ballistic shotguns.
Lots of concerns already listed in the notes regarding this, but I feel it should be said: if antags had some sort way to fight back against mechs it wouldn't be so harsh on them. As of now, the only possible way a known antag being hunted by one can fight back is if A) they are in science and print ion guns (they'll need a lot) or B) steal a mech of their own somehow. But for the vast majority, the only option is hiding/running which slows down round momentum and limits interactions.
We shouldn't encourage antags to get everything done before the hour mark, else face the big scary mechs/implants/aegs. Objective rushing into hiding is the last thing we want to see become the norm.
QuoteSecurity players often feel like admins are breathing down their necks.
This is how I felt going into security based on a few ill conceived views. After maining it for a while, it is most assuredly not the case. Security has a lot of leeway and room to work with, and when admins do ask questions it is usually just that—questions. Asking about whats happened so they can accurately respond to a ahelp.
I feel most people who think the above quote likely haven't played security all that much. Or, if they have, are one of those players that like to be more violent/abusive than they should be.
QuoteTraitors are actually remarkably balanced for how complex they are, but borers could stand to be adjusted somewhat. Their low power ranking may reflect the fact they have very little effect on the round - compared to what you’d expect for a mind-controlling alien brain slug.
I feel that's because of borer's OOC rulings. They aren't even really an antag. Just a pAI with extra benefits that prevents an actual interesting midround event from taking its place. Its somewhat deceitful to act like they are even remotely in the same category as the rest of the antags, being that "Survive" could barely be called a antagonistic objective.
QuoteRevs have no interaction with crew. No RP potential. Just collecting bodies like a glorified janitor. Give them the ability to possess dead bodies for both interacting with crew. If you replace Revenant EMP with “possess corpse” then you solve two problems at once.
The potential here is amazing, definitely an idea that piques my interest as revenant has been a glorified "IPC killer" for a while now.
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14 hours ago, Qwertytoforty said:
Glad this thread was put up. Personally, I just think that if someone slips someone in perma, and starts hitting them, that they should not be executed for that. If that was any other person, that's assault on an officer, but if one does that in perma, sometimes security comes up and executes the person for that, which is a bit ehhhh. Just seems strange.
Feel like its very situational, here, which is the issue.
A Warden walks in. Gets slipped and punched a few times by prisoner McGee. Warden recovers from stun and stuns McGee. That shouldn't count as a escape attempt. I think we can all can agree on that.
But lets say McGee had cablecuffs/spear. They hid in a locker, slipping the warden as they enter and stabs/cuffs them. Then after the wardens capture/heavy-crit, McGee strips him of his gear. Backup officers arrive before McGee actually gets out of perma and put a end to it. Warden is saved and never dies from crit. That should be the very DEFINITION of an escape attempt. Just because McGee never got out of perma and the warden didn't die shouldn't mean no execution allowed. After all, if the officers didn't arrive quick enough it would be execution from wardens death/prisoner walking out with his ID.
Now if the situation above happened, one could just say "throw them in solitary." Thats a nice idea, but now imagine that its highpop sec round with 3 perma prisoners, two active traitors and only 2-3 competent officers among the entire force. Now imagine any of the prisoners were vamps with their !!FUN!! glares. It quickly becomes infeasible.
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1 minute ago, AzuleUtama said:
I'm amazed it even got bought at all.
I use it sometimes before stripping naked and committing random crimes for the surprise emag. Typically I like to wait for the officer to set the timer, then buy it and emag cell doors while the officer is still in view to confuse them into non-action as I make my severely unpractical escape.
All 9 uses were me /s
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3 hours ago, AzuleUtama said:
Uplink Implant - 9
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If I wanted to throw it, I would have pressed r god damnit
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I honestly figured it was a bug. Being addicted to a SINGLE cigar four times in a row via hopping in a sleeper each time addicted before it ran out was ridiculous and not at all what Fox's PR description sounded like was intended.
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1 hour ago, Eler00 said:
I am still in favour of replacing xenos completely with Terror Spiders.
As am I. Until a complete rework and rebalancing go into xenos they are better off scrapped to make room for more terror spider events.
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That brings up a point of how I noticed different people rp past shifts. I've noticed some usually rp shifts aboard the NT being always chaotic and people dying all the time, and then even reference past rounds with announcements and such in small ways. Then theres the other way to rp (my personal choice) where nothing ever happens, shifts are usually calm and there's no reason to suspect anything. I don't know which one is considered "right" as any lore rules here are extremely vague or non-existent, but the latter one seems to be the proper way. If chaos happens all the time, people dying all the time, I'm sure there would be a lot more security personnel that would be better armed with better regulations as it makes no sense for NT not to properly protect their assets should they know its a common site for threats.
I never really reference past rounds, and I consider the one round where you're antag/everything goes to shit to be the abnormality. The exception. The shift you haven't had or at the very least, haven't had commonly. If we take that as the standard for shifts, stealing/stashing security guns and making stunrpods "just in case," looks like blatant powergaming to me. Same goes for sec taking the arrivals security locker to security "just in case." Hell, I've even seen the Captain do that before several times. Or, my personal pet peeve, security holding onto their lethals after the threat has passed and HoS orders them returned. Civilians will do the same if cargo orders gun/RnD prints guns for a threat (tspiders/blob) and then the threat passes. They won't give up their weapons, even if ordered. Hell, I've been called shitsec by some IPC once for taking their stunprod (and not giving them jail time) because it was green.
There's always going to be the fun bit of everyone knowing everything about a given antag or situation. Not much to be done there, though typically I try to have some fun by feigning ignorance and such.
As a note, this isn't really me advocating for change or anything. Just mentioning passing thoughts of what I notice at times.
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Personally I dislike leaving lore up to the players imagination and interpretation to rp. Its how you get snowflakes and conflicting backgrounds quick, as well as conflicting rp styles for races. It takes me out of it to not have a sure answer to a question about the lore, thus being left with "guess I'll wing it."
I'd also love the lore team to come back and flesh out all the lore pages. That being said, in doing so I'm sure they'd step on some toes and encounter some roadblocks, so I doubt it will ever happen.
Hell, to flesh out the lore there doesn't even need to be that much more written. Just quick snippets added/changed to explain small details.
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3 hours ago, Soapbar said:
This almost entirely a problem with Blob being incredibly weak.
I'd have to disagree there. Blob has been in a somewhat strong position I feel—far stronger than it used to be. Probably the strongest position its ever been in my memory.
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The only problem with mechs and blobs (which may have been fixed by now) was where you could spam the flashbang launcher without any cooldown and have a million flashbangs out and kill blobs, even big ones, extremely quickly. That is cheese and has hopefully been fixed by now.
Other than that, I don't see mechs as needing nerfs. If any nerf came at all it should to slowing down the speed at which a mech could be repaired, rather than a direct nerf to its offensive and defensive abilities.
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In honesty, the only real problem I have with the new system is being unable to speak while in it/while having lack of 02. When the change was initially put forth I liked the idea of it, being unable to speak when spaced without 02 makes sense and even sounds cool. But in practice it just comes off as an annoying hassle
because I cant give my cheesy one liners before death anymore. Getting mortally wounded and having to take out my PDA to say anything detracts from the experience, imo. -
4 hours ago, Gaty said:
"Always the Antag"
Always the good guy you mean *wink
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Rurik Varlim: Wow that's suspicious
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I have to go against what has been said about the suit storage. Unless there has been a newer change I am unaware of, cutting the safety wire just allows you to lock a organic body inside, and turning the UV intensity up incinerates worn items and kills if the body inside if alive, but not cremate/remove the body itself. Though, perhaps I did something wrong. Never tried a emag on it.
I also have to object about the recycler. The emaged recycler, last time I've tested it, instant kills and destroys all items of whoever passes through it, but does not remove/gib the body entirely.
When I get some time Ill run a local server and test real quick, though that may be a bit.
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I have a feeling this might be a long thread, and I don't want to bore everyone by writing a essay, so I'll keep it as short, simple, and eloquent as I can (which isn't very much).
We expect too much out of antags, and give too little freedom in return. We don't want them to rush objectives, murderbone, stealth objectives perfectly and be a bore, be "friendly" antags and be a bore, do objectives 30 mins in and then hide for the rest of the hour and thirty, complete objectives too flawlessly without any chance of retribution from security, and we want antags to find "interesting" ways of doing things, do "fun" gimmicks, not play to "win."
On top of this, there is barely any freedom given to objectives outside of hijack, and antags as a whole being pretty much bottle-necked rule wise. I find it hard to expect antags to find interesting and fun ways to do things when, to get any extra freedom or objectives, they either have to ahelp or fax the syndicate (the former usually remaining unanswered as admins have better things to do and the latter requiring a emag that can be hard to fit into TC builds).
All in all that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't compounded by the gray area in the rules surrounding antags. I feel well versed in what will get you bwoinked and what wont, but even then situations arise where I'm not sure, and the best option is to ahelp. But by the time a admin actually has time to answer you, the situation/moment you were asking for permission to do will probably be gone. Answering gray area situations on a case by case basis isn't a effective means of doing so.
I hate to admit it, but at the end of the day whenever I am doing something action packed or violent as antag there's always a worry in the back of my mind that what I've done is wrong and is against the rules even though I don't see how, and that it will be the final straw as I've made plenty of mistakes before. Its only a matter of time before I forget something in the heat of the moment and am hit with, "You should of known better." As @Birdtalon put it, treading on eggshells.
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Eh I don't much mind the beeping/talking. The ability for them to call the borgs to their location at all times (as I understand it, at least) in binary chat hurts, though. Since the borgs will try to kill you 9 times out of 10 regardless of their laws, you will be forced to kill the borgs as well. Thats all well and dandy, till I'm forced to blow all the borgs at the RD console and then I feel bad about ruining their rounds via "ha you exploded guess you hope someone walks by and gives you to the roboticist and not just stick you in their pocket for the rest of the round."
36 minutes ago, MrMagolor said:Are you implying that getting the AI on the card in the first place is?
The hard parts always been keeping the AI in your possession, never getting in. Though to be fair if you don't go the thermite/vampire mist route or the bit more risky desword strat, it can be fairly hard as well.
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The fact that a niche feature with no impact on balance can generate this much discussion is already a problem. If some people feel uncomfortable with it and find it a problem, then it should just be removed. This mechanic isn't worth making the game actively worse for others, even if they are a minority.