[Require Slimes to Play by Regular Antag Standards]

I can attest to the pyro slimes being an absolute nightmare to fight if the controller plays to kill. 

Even if they don't randomly murder without warning, and give off semi-rp lines like "You look tasty" before going for the kill, they'll still get the kill most of the time unless the victim books it immediately.

Personally I don't mind this by itself, I even kind of like it, however a problem arises when said dangerous as fuck slime decides "I'm going to kill every engineer that tries to fix the SM, and I'm going to do it at meth speed from the heat." Or they systematically begin to kill all of science, or medbay, targeting doctors and people in surgery, etc etc.

If the above happens, the slimes impact on the round can drastically outweigh what is meant from a non-major event mob.

[Thermite... Problematically Hated AI Cheeser or Okay?]

Thermite is ridiculously op since its so easy to make. However, I hate AI's so I'm going to use it anyway. Malf AI's can also end everyone's round (even if they rarely pull it off), so people have less restraint in general towards it. Similar to how veteran sec will treat a syndi going for a steal differently than a hijack syndi that plans to end the shift early.

[Detective's Lethal Revolver]

3 hours ago, MattTheFicus said:

Do I agree with this? Absolutely not. I think its monumentally unhealthy for the game. But, unless the Heads want to change anything about it, I'm not going to be bwoinking anyone over using lethals unless its used for zero reason or if theyre doing it indiscriminately (ie lethaling a trespasser) with zero regard toward (the absolutely insanely open-ended) Deadly Force clause.

 

This, paired with S34N said, does leave it in a bit of a muddled situation. Doesn't inspire confidence to bother ahelping if one admin would view one detective lethalling situation as valid and another as invalid. Learning what admins will and wont enforce and checking whose online before ahelping doesn't strike me as a good solution either. But I suppose there isn't much to be done there unless a head decides to step in and make a clear line, and, well I imagine thats easier said than done.

[Detective's Lethal Revolver]

Beat me to the punch on the thread, I see. Ill try and keep my points concise.

On 2/5/2022 at 11:30 PM, dafrek said:

I would like to hear other people's points of view on this change though as there are probably some good things about this change that I haven't covered, such as more bad detectives getting job-banned for abusing their job?

When I asked around on discord the main two points for the change I saw were as follows:

1) It discourages detcurity via ensuring they only engage proper threats, lest they get jobanned/demoted.

2) The only alternative would be removal.

For point 1), I see the logic, but I don't think it works out in practice. Not all rounds have HoS's like Moi, Malvor, Owen, Bubblegum, etc, who have the conviction to demote one of their own. Even if they do, they sometimes miss things, especially in hectic rounds. Admins are also not all-seeing, and these things aren't always ahelped. Even in my case, when I had plenty of hours on this server, didn't realize when I was illegitimately lethalled and I instead bitched in dchat (as god gamers do) for what I assumed was a valid, but dirty action. Now you can imagine it'd be even less likely for less experienced players to ahelp.

Furthermore, even if it is ahelped and the detective is dealt with, the antag is often still dead or at the very least crippled from IB. While I personally don't mind a "ruined" antag round since there are always more, others feel more strongly on the matter.

For point 2), I agree. Even though I'd prefer getting stunned over getting IB/broken leg, I don't think maintainers would even consider a revert to the previous stun/disabler-like version. I also don't think I could convince anyone of a second alternative, such as locking the revolver in a display case shift start that has to be unlocked via HoS/Warden, etc. And in the end, although I hate detective having a better lethal than anyone else in sec AND on roundstart, I'd prefer that over outright removal. That's what made me question even making a thread like this one, since what would be the point if the alternative is worse than the problem?

Closing points: As it stands, detective has the best lethals in security, given it at roundstart, and can legally carry it at all times. They have more capacity to "ruin" an antag round, valid or invalid, than any other sec member. Currently I fear the detective more than any other sec member for their ability to end a run. But, even so, I'd prefer that over outright removal of the revolver. 

[Slime person revival idea]

remove slime people imo

[Re-add Red Bandanas to Sec Vendor/Lockers]

Red Bandanas used to spawn in the clothing locker before sec vendors were ported to box station. Now, they do not, as there is no clothing locker. As a direct result my aim has worsened, immersion decreased, and my subsequent days have all been ruined. It is of upmost importance the red bandana is added to the sec clothing vendor.

Going to the arrivals vendor, hoping nobody took the black bandana, and recoloring it with the washing machine is too much effort. 

 

[Holy Water Should Make Everyone Vomit Blood]

I'm amused by the kneejerk reaction to the mere idea of holy water not giving a free pass to detect vamps. Lets not act like sec need this, we don't. We deal with clings with no "definite" way to test outside of a mindshielded person seeing them use a power, or 2/3 crew members all reporting the same thing, and we do just fine.

I'm personally neutral, but it would be nice to see the sec meta die of holy watering anyone with a stunprod/cablecuffs and kidnapping charge on a vamp round. Which, unfortunately, is very common as its not against the rules.

5 hours ago, Sirryan2002 said:

This would likely be used by antagonists as a weapon pretty much buffing every humanoid antag.

 

But as Sirryan pointed out, there'd need to be a way to do so without making it a always hurts kind of deal. 

[Antag Anxiety tips]

As someone with high anxiety, I can relate. Everyone has their own methods for beating it, but here's mine when it comes to ss13.

• Winning doesn't matter. You might hear it a lot already, but its true. Greentext doesn't matter, and nobody will care about it.
• Think less, act more. Once you get into the groove of rampant violence (or stealthing your objective if that's your thing) things become a lot easier. Starting it is what makes your heart pound. Continuing it is what gives you the rhythm.
• Even the "pros" get instantly tazed and gg'd sometimes. It happens. There is absolutely no shame in it. Not every situation is beatable either, so don't be hard on yourself for the destined failure. 

I'd also recommend taking adrenals/freedoms for a while till ya get used to the roll of antag, so you aren't defeated with one lucky taze, but thats out of scope of your question.

[Reduce amount of Holy Water needed to deconvert Cultists]

yes

[Map Vote Alert Sounds]

Out of the ones given, 3 feels best, but honestly I'd be grateful for any sound at all that'd catch my attention. Too easy to miss when the rounds been busy. That or I'm just blind. 

Or we could sideline the problem via making it delta only! That works too.

[Vamp rework balance/feature suggestions.]

Via RNG I only had the pleasure of fighting them thus far, and its been a pleasant experience. Certainly more engaging than old vamp. Overall I feel its in a good place, and I end up happy I'm fighting one rather than dreading it like before.

I've noted some saying new vamp ends with less vamps perma'd/caught, instead ending in lethal fights, but I can say with confidence thats just cause of the Delta map, and the areas vamp can hide in early on, as well as response time across the map there. On Box its about the same as usual in my experience.

5 hours ago, Vallidian said:

If there are 150 people at high pop, that's 15 vampires attempting to get 1000 total blood for full power. That's 5 crew members for each just to get to full power. That doesn't take into account upkeep of the ability. Based on those numbers. That's half of the crew needed just for them to get full power. It leads to far too much murdering just for the sake of getting full power.

I've seen dchat bring this up as well, and while it makes sense mathematically, I'm not convinced its it has any effect for one main reason: Old Vamps continued to suck blood anyway, because kidnapping is fun and fighting sec is fun, and 500 blood disappeared in a heartbeat when you are in a fight vs 5 ERT with speedy legs from DNA vault. I've only noticed more death on Delta, but that's because it takes longer for sec to arrive which means more dead civis. On box, it felt as normal.

I feel Delta and the innate chaos that comes with it if maints are used to full effectiveness are skewing peoples views of how powerful/effective vamp is.

[AEG Rework Suggestion]

I'd love a BoH nerf, preferably even removal. Bag space exists for a reason, and it'd be nice to balance AEG around that without the "lmao infinite space" bag.

1 hour ago, Spacemanspark said:

AEGs used to irradiate and incur a small stun.

I like it already

[Move CQC back to Nukies (and bundle) only]

I agree with this sentiment. It can be fun to use and it can be fun to watch, but for sweat lords, the abuse potential is high.

Everyone and their mother also buys freedom implant alongside CQC, which sec has to pretend like they dont expect it, typically giving not only a second chance but a free kill on the officer carrying the CQC user to processing. CQC is the only purchase (afaik) that lets you near guarantee what their next purchase is. Pretending that the CQC user isn't about to slip off cuffs mid transit is akin to pretending xenos aren't planetside in CM.

A fix for CQC would be changing every combo that results in sleep to result in a heavy stun instead. It would keep the insane power but wouldn't be as boring, since victims/sec will still be able to relay your position and status instead of dying silently. That is a good compromise, should people want CQC to stay in the uplink. 

[TG Sprites]

Quote

Remember the old toolbox ? I don't.

                        I do

[TG Sprites]

I second this question. Don't really know why changing to tg sprites is a priority when—while still good sprites—they aren't necessarily an upgrade. In many ways they look quite strange, and the sprites we have currently are fine. The real question I have is just—why?

[Unofficial Lore Thread]

While I'm allergic to both lore and rp, I did have a bit of headcannon/gripe with current vampire lore. The current text in the wiki states: 

Quote

An entity that lives in bluespace, and is known to take control of a body as it approaches death. The "soul" is replaced with this entity, who inherits the memories and personality of the body via it's brain.

Able to suck the life force on others, it gains power from this, allowing the entity greater influence over reality from bluespace.

Such presence also gives it vulnerabilities to psychic phenomena, such as waters blessed by the faithful, or the light of stars.

It is illegal to be a vampire, and they are subsequently treated the same as syndicate agents.

Particularly with this part: 

Quote

The "soul" is replaced with this entity, who inherits the memories and personality of the body via it's brain.

This is no different from changeling, who absorbs a body, inheriting memories and mimicking personality. Yet, vampires are not KoS and are still considered to be part of the crew. So my own headcannon is this:

• As a body approaches death, the vampiric bluespace entity can seep into the corpse and the souls are joined into one. The original personality and memories are intact, but with the entity attached the crew member feels compelled, to varying degrees, to feed and sustain themselves. This can range from outright murder to reluctance to feed, or even turning themselves in or pulling victims to medbay from guilt.

Imo thats more interesting than the vampire outright replacing the original soul, and it better reflects current SoP/Spacelaw as well as making sense why some vampires turn themselves in or otherwise act kind. Also leaves room for sick rp regarding innate conflict and need to kill, not that I'd ever participate in such a thing.

Other than that, one practice I and a few others have (no idea if its written somewhere)

• Vast majority of shifts aboard the NSS Cyberaid are calm, with mostly petty crimes, if any, committed. The shift you, the player, have aboard the shift is the exception, and always will be the exception.

That way it makes sense as to why NT haven't installed a tougher screening process for crew members, and why they don't mindshield all heads of the station/have cameras in literally every part of the station.

[Screenshot thread!]

Editing is scuffed but this one surprised me so much I had to post it

[New Roles: Prisoner and Brig Guard]

1 hour ago, Woje said:

I'd like the prisoner role to exist here though. There's people who genuinely enjoy perma roleplay and uhh.... yeah. Can't exactly end up there in a sensible IC way as non-antag. 

I second this. Exact same topic came up a long long ago, and Ill say now what I said then. Prisoner role would be awesome.

Admittedly though, there'd have to be some discussion on if said prisoner role can attempt escape, help fellow eoc prisoners escape, how far they could go in attempting escape, etc. 

[Cyberiad Fashion Showcase]

Some good looks in here, especially Fiona's warden, Marcus's hawaiian vacation vibe, and matt's Nanotrasen Financial Officer.

Alas, I'm afraid I have you all beat. Behold my d r i p

 or for disguises: 

[Screenshot thread!]

 

CE vs Vampires in a nutshell.

[Cult balance]

22 hours ago, Leanfrog said:

Another idea, the armor could inverse the slowdown at low health, so instead of being super slow and easy to hit, you become speed.

Okay, I really like this one. Would still be powerful while also being interesting, and perhaps risky to use.

[Cult balance]

46 minutes ago, Charliminator said:

I have two ideas on how to do this. 1 make the speed decay over time, being refreshed via conversion. Meaning they are less useful in combat with sec but they still remain powerful for growing a cult. Another nerf which is much easier to implement, is to prevent cult blades from being stored on flag robes. This would mean a cultist couldnt stun + have a mirror shield + have a sword as easily. Vastly reducing their lethality.

 

Both of these could work, particularly the former idea. After all, my only problem with flag robes is the ability to stun an officer, zip to maint and permakill faster than sec can physically respond.

[Cult balance]

2 hours ago, SabreML said:

My main worry with that is that the same few "robust" people will keep getting chosen as the leader every round, and anyone who's not as popular will just get passed over.

A fair concern.

Is the leader elected by the cult members or is it randomly chosen among those who opt-in for leader position?

If its the latter, aka randomly chosen as with other antag roles from preferences, I don't think we'd have too much of a problem given our pop. Someone, veteran or not, should have a hard time consistently rolling cult leader with 120 people online. 

If its elected, I could see an issue where cult just elects the same pro gamer every time, which *could* be annoying. I personally wouldn't have a problem with it but I can get why some would.

[Cult balance]

I still personally believe cult needs a inherent leader role, someone with the ultimate say on things and preferably a separate opt-in preference for veterans to switch on. I'd even go so far to say they should have a one-use stun resist or be unable to be deconverted, helping stave off cult-stended rounds

Sadly that'd probably be too controversial. Aside from buffing a mode I've seen several call "op", it seems most of the community also prefer majority-rule in team antags, like nuke ops.

[Screenshot thread!]