TheBadPerson

I don’t see emp kit taken that often, maybe it’s been more popular recently. I don’t see the point in nerfing when you can still use chem to make your own. Also doesn’t stop batons. I’m gonna see if I can abuse EMP kit more now that you mentioned it. IM NOT CONVINCED OF VIABILITY.

I’ve seen you in game before. IM WATCHING YOU.

Sanitation is for nerds lmaooooo

I mean I don’t have stats, I can only speak anecdotally. I usually play 1-3 rounds on weekdays I’m not workin out, and I will often play many rounds on the weekend. Antag rolls are completely random. I will sometimes have hot streaks where I roll it every other round, sometimes multiple time in a row. Other times I’ll have total dry streaks of barely rolling it for weeks. Also, keep in mind that having all antags turned on obviously gives you higher odds since it gives you a chance to roll antag on more game types. My frequency is slightly reduced because Im just really not a fan of playing changeling so I don’t have it enabled. Playing non mindshielded roles over security also slightly increases your chances of turning into a midround traitor via the auto-traitor gamemode as well. Antag lust is real, but it’s best to find crew roles you genuinely enjoy for those times when you can’t roll antag for the life of you. Plus nobody rolls antag all the time despite the “antag main” meme. People who play a lot simply get seen antagging more, it doesn’t mean they always roll it.

Honestly I’ve never really seen people use locker dragging very consistently. I’ve also never seen someone use it to evade capture in the long term. Like I get that it’s kinda goofy, but it’s really not that good of a strategy. I just don’t like that normal crew needing to move crates or lockers now get punished over a niche technique. Ultimately I’d prefer a revert, but I wouldn’t say I’m seething about the change either. The change definitely makes cargo more tedious though.

This probably isn’t very helpful but it’s just the truth. I haven’t noticed any difference whatsoever. I could care less if it stays or goes.

This is not poggers

Preferably anything other than instantly round ending antags with no immediate counter. Others in the thread have mentioned the solution is probably adding mechanics to AI. That said, I also see virtually zero effort on the part of many AI players to interact with crew in any way, and then they whine that there’s nothing to do. Self-admittedly I have very few hours on silicons as I don’t find them interesting and I don’t like the gameplay. That said i see them as extremely powerful helpers in anything they choose to do. Expanding on that I never see Borgs or AI offer to help anyone with anything, so of course they get bored. One options I see is allowing the AI more options to manifest its self outside holopads to make it feel less isolated from crew. This could be anything from an item to a PDA add on. Think Cortana from Halo.

I’m around 1100 and still regularly learn new mechanics/secrets. Game is ridiculously detailed.

Hard disagree. It makes for unfun terrible gameplay that only the AI enjoys. I’ve written at length about why it’s unbalanced and lame. If people want AI to be more interesting I’ve conceded that it probably needs to be given more roles outside bolting antags. If you want to fight antags there’s an entire department for it. AI involvement completely warps the gameplay loop between antags and security.

Experienced AI players play this way, and only start to involve themselves when it is clear the antag is getting overly violent, or sec clearly cannot handle the issue themselves. This is appropriate to me. The issue is this is purely an honor rule/cultural thing done out of respect for other players and is completely optional. What I see far more often is AI immediately resorting to bolting/spying without really any reason to do so. Believe me when I say that security RARELY needs help outside their standard armory options. AI intervention is almost always massive overkill.

Interesting idea, could add some flair to the usual criminality/antaggery. I think the key would for them to have focused objectives to prevent them from acting as full blown operatives though. I think I thieving system similar to contracting could be cool. Steal certain items for credit payouts instead of TC. Something like that. Issue is would it be fun? I dunno. Maybe?

Then I don’t know the solution. What I do know is getting round ended solely to an AI bolting your escape, or an AI being sole witness to an otherwise silent crime is just awful gameplay. This happens WAY more often than people like to admit. And despite what people like to convince themselves, there are not many viable counters against an aggressive AI outside the syndicate teleporter, or vampiric teleports/walks. I am not the best player on the server, but I’m pretty damn competent. People loveeeee to throw out “skill issue” when you complain about the AI, yet they themselves get annihilated when the same happens to them. They have no solutions. The amount of people I have seen survive an aggressive AI is LOW, and it’s always been through luck, or extensive chaos. At the end of the day I hate that I always have to accept that an AI can round end me whenever it feels like the second it decides it wants to CTRL-Click. I am not the only one that feels that way. Basically every other player I know of that antags frequently DESPISES the AI.

Theoretically correct. Haven’t seen someone do this successfully in a VERY long time. Just because something is possible doesn’t make it realistic or a solution. If an AI messes with you it will almost always round end you if the AI has any remote idea what they are doing. I maintain that AI interference is awful gameplay. Nobody I know who antags likes it. It would be one thing if they did it to stop murderboning, but that’s never the case.

AIs hunt antags all the time, and crew are FAR more likely to try and valid an antag than provide any help whatsoever. I question how much you play sec or antag to have the opposite opinion. RP has nothing to do with the discussion. There are a TON of things that happen on server that fly in the face of RP for the sake of gameplay over realism.

Other day I saw a stealth antag steal the laser and Jetpack. AI immediately bolts the entire office down screwing the antag, who is promptly firing squaded by sec. That’s what I mean by this. I don’t see why that’s ok, and it’s terrible gameplay. That dude literally got round ended solely to a valid hunting AI, and that sort of thing happens CONSTANTLY.

Adding tasks via code is not going to keep AIs from valid hunting. The sole reason a lot of people queue up AI is to bolt and catch antags. You can add all the tasks you want to AI, they’re just going to ignore them to go valid hunt. I want actual rules in place that establish that an AI is not supposed to be attacking antags. I don’t even think paladin and robocop should exist. Synthetics completely break the game balance between security and antags, and I’m tired of having to deal with the toxic gameplay of being hunted by an AI. The counters you listed are also not counters. If you attempt to do any of that against a bolting AI you will get roflstomped so fast your head will spin.

I am infinitely curious as to what you think the outplay is to an AI full bolting the captains office on an antique laser thief out of the blue is. People seem to love throwing out the term skill issue, and then have zero solution to said “skill issue”. Very interesting. I see skilled players go down solely to AI all the time. As I’ve said, it’s terrible gameplay for everyone except the AI.

Wasn’t aware AIs didn’t get free reign to bolt and hunt at will. It was my understanding they could. I still think it’s a very grey area that needs to be addressed by SoP in some way to help reduce the behavior. I constantly see AIs aggressively hunting antags and taking them down solo, so it was my perception that they weren’t restricted to do so. Just last night an AI took down 2 nonviolent antags by itself. I ahelped it, no idea if anything came of it or not. My point remains that a large percentage of my rounds I find myself fighting the AI and Borgs more so than security.

To start here’s 2 paragraphs from the AI wiki that I’m fairly certain most AI players have never read: “As AI you have the power to strongly influence the round and you should always be aware of that and consider your actions before you ruin someone else’s fun just because it gives you that feeling of winning. Remember that the game is not about winning but about the RP and the experience of the round. For example it can be a real killer if the AI calls out someone as the Traitor because it saw him doing something suspicious. If you see a traitor buying items at the start of the round, you can go ahead and just ignore it to be kind and allow them to have a fun round, as you don't get to be traitor everyday.” I’ve clocked in over 1000 hours in game at this point, and I play a ton of antag and security. In my opinion the level to which the AI and Borgs are allowed to valid hunt currently is horribly balanced. I keep a loose mental tab of what round ends me as an antag, and somewhere between a third and half of my runs are ended soley due to AI intervention, with little security input. That is not ok, and it’s terrible gameplay. As it stands currently, the AI is 100% permitted to bolt in and call out any suspected antag it sees at any time, on any lawset. (Admins have confirmed this). There are zero rules against an AI scouring the station looking for suspected antags to bolt or call out at roundstart, and its laws even often support such behavior. While that may be seemingly realistic, it makes for terrible gameplay, and also has several issues. First off, AIs are not considered members of security, and get OOC protection from being preemptively killed or carded without an objective to do so. The problem is that they can round end any antag at any time with a well timed bolt or callout. This makes them effectively a silent AA detective that may or may not decide to end you at any time, and you’re not allowed to deal with them until they strike, which will almost always round end you regardless. This is a very unfair dynamic, as the antag has no chance to fight back against a random bolting or callout that can come at any time. You are effectively either forced to buy a syndicate teleporter, or hope the AI doesn’t feel like bolting or hunting. Again, you are not allowed to attack an AI preemptively despite it being allowed to take on security duties whenever it wants. Secondly, the dynamic of AIs hunting antags is terrible gameplay. The antag is silently and instantly cheated of their round by an untouchable eye that can completely lock them down, and security is cheated of an interesting chase or encounter. I have been on both sides of valid hunting AIs, and it’s boring for both security and the antag player. It is a dirty, cheap way to round end someone that is lame for everyone except the AI. What I propose for the sake of improving gameplay is this; add a clause to AI and Borg SoP that they are not allowed to interfere with security chases unless directly ordered to do so, and restrict callouts to wanted individuals. This will help restrict “detective” AIs, and prevent AIs from instantly round ending every antag they can find. I also think Borgs and AI should spawn in with bold red text that says YOU ARE NOT SECURITY similar to other roles as well. I would want this SoP reflected in all non-paladin/robocop lawsets. As it stands now this is what I see constantly: AIs will spawn in and IMMEDIATELY scour the station checking every single meta area for potential antags. They will see who asks for job changes at the hop and follow those people. They will look in offices and lower traffic areas for anyone with a PDA. They will essentially hunt for any excuse to sic sec on someone. They will leap at ANY sec callout and instantly bolt. The amount of AIs that play this way is disappointingly high, and in my eyes it’s basically rules-legal valid hunting since they can excuse it via lawset on technicalities, and it’s near impossible for admins to catch if they even consider it a problem at all. An AI or Borg should NEVER be the sole reason an antag goes down, yet it happens all the time. An AI or borg will take it upon themselves to catch an antag by themselves with zero security intervention or presence. I have seen this happen over and over and over. The AIs and Borgs that do this do not get bwoinked or even talked to. I have literally seen Borgs chase antags into maintenance to capture them on NT default by themselves and not get bwoinked. At the end of the day it I’m just tired of being round ended to valid hunting AIs, and I know many others are too. It’s not fun, it’s not sporting, and it’s really not fair either. Most people I ask about this topic express disdain at AIs as well for this reason. AI is the most powerful role on the station, and it should be played responsibly. It is currently not played responsibly by the majority of players in my opinion. There is a department dedicated to valid hunting, it’s called security, not the AI/Cyborg. I think the silicon rules should reflect that. Adding these miscellaneous statements here at the end since I suspect some very poor counter arguments to show up: -The ability to hack doors is not a counter to bolting. Bolting is used to cut off escape and allow sec to catch a fleeing antag. You will RARELY escape a proper bolting. -Yes this post is salty. No that does not invalidate the fact that getting round ended solely to AI is horrible gameplay. -Yes the AI can be emped, bombed, or carded. No that does not mean it isn’t still incredibly powerful, nor does it prevent it from instantly round ending you at the drop of a hat. Remember, the AI has OOC protection until it impedes you or you have an objective. -“Just hide your crimes or play stealthy!” The AI has overview of most of the station, and often actively hunts for anything remotely suspicious. You will be hard pressed to avoid the attention of a hunting AI. -“One time the AI bolted me in with sec and I killed them all!” That’s great, but not every antag run gifts you with adrenals and chainsaw on discount.

Don’t try to make wiz rounds something they aren’t. It’s a war round, treat it as such. I don’t think it can be a mid round due to how chaotic and strong wizards are. I also don’t think continuing the round is the play either, as you’ll be often left with a station and crew in tatters, and any future antags will be dealing with a fully war-escalated crew. And yes I know de-escalation is a thing, but it usually doesn’t happen and you can’t un-order WTs. Furthermore, when a wiz round is confirmed everyone swaps into LRP murderbone mindset anyways, so I don’t think continuing the round has legs. Hard to have continuity after something like a wiz round. My issue with wizard is this; it gaslights you into thinking it’s a normal round type and then rugpulls you into a war round. Nukie rounds solve this problem with the declare war button which everyone presses because stealth ops are lame. When war is declared everyone knows what’s up, and if you don’t want to participate you at least know not to invest in your job, and you can cryo if you don’t want to play a war round. My proposal is this: Wizards get a time limit in their prep room before an automatic wizard federation announcement of declaration of war is declared. This would apply to both regular wiz rounds and ragin rounds. I think 5 minutes is fair, but obviously the amount of time is up for debate. This announcement would give people the heads up that this is not a normal round similar to nukies, and prevent people from being disappointed in investing into their jobs in a war round. I am aware that this would remove stealth wizardry from the equation, but in my opinion that is totally ok. I have never once enjoyed a stealth wizard gimmick, and I don’t know anyone who has. The worst round I ever played was an hour long wizard round where a stealth wizard just hid in maints and Ei Nathed people in secret before eventually being found 30 minutes in. The resulting 30 minute long chase against an instakilling disguised wizard with a full evasion loadout was mind numbing. Wizard is a disruptive and violent round. Stealth has no place in it, as it’s a war round type. It is essentially a Nukie round with Harry Potter instead of chainsaws and rifles. I say just make it what it is, and have a declaration of war. Hell if you declare war, this could even give you the excuse to change wizard to always be ragin to include more players, and give the crew an actual chance to start escalating. Now that could be fun, and give more people the chance to experience being a wiz.

My issue is this; the holopara can only protect its host by killing or maiming attackers. It can’t teleport or speed up its host, and only the guardian can give a shield which really doesn’t solve the problem. This makes the ranged holo the clear cut best choice. It has the best DPS, and since it’s ranged it has the easiest opportunity to apply that DPS. It is also exposed to less damage as well. As a result, I think you only have two options to buff other holos. They either need to do a lot more damage to compensate the risk of melee(this still may not make them more viable), or they need more utility options like those you provided to make them more attractive choices. That said, one issue I see with a “counter stance” is that it’s not enough to be on par with the sheer killing power or a ranged holopara. A counter is nice, but it doesn’t solve the problem of sec bearing down on you, and it doesn’t make you escape. Your less powerful holopara will still have to contend with the countered sec off, most likely multiple. In my opinion the ranged holopara is one of the few traitor items in the game that can realistically wipe an unprepared sec team in a mass brawl(I’ve seen it happen). That power is hard to match with current other options. I have beaten charger holos in melee with one other officer before. Other holo options need to bring some serious utility options to the table in order to justify taking them over the raw killing power of the ranged variant. One idea could be letting the host share an ability similar to the nature of their holo. For example, if you take an assassin holo you as the host also receive a stealth ability and maybe move faster in darkness similar to an umbrae. Or if you take a charger, you as the host also receive a charging knockdown ability or maybe a short speed boost. These are the types of utilities that I think would start to justify different holos based on your objectives. Bottom line is if you don’t choose a ranged holo, you need to be compensated with good utility options to make it make sense.

This would flip the janitor meta on its head. The janicart is already extremely OP.

I almost never see RCDs impact the flow of a round in a major way. If access or flanking is that serious of an issue for the sec vs antag dynamic, welders, access upgrades, or the AI will basically always be an acceptable response. The primary use of RCDs I see is purely engineering use, and I don’t see a need to nerf personally.

Other people have explained it, I’ll just condense it down; on occasion antag objectives will single out another eoc or non eoc as the target for multiple eocs. While this can be annoying, it is more common than you might think. It’s RNG and not forced by admins. As for the demon, don’t ever go investigating banging noises in maint unless you’re prepared for a serious fight to the death. The source is basically always either demons or terrors, rarely anything else.