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Aligote

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Posts posted by Aligote

  1. This has been discussed before and I am primarily motivated for the same reason. I'd like ashwalkers to be able to make leather for things like goliath cloaks. I was able to make drying racks work on lavaland by changing 

    Spoiler

    /obj/machinery/smartfridge/drying_rack/power_change()
        if(has_power() && anchored)
            stat &= ~NOPOWER
        else
            stat |= NOPOWER
            toggle_drying(TRUE)
        update_icon(UPDATE_OVERLAYS)

    to just

    Spoiler

    /obj/machinery/smartfridge/drying_rack/power_change()
        if(anchored)
            stat &= ~NOPOWER

    along with changing the power consumptions to 0.

    I dont know which change is the primary reason it works, but it works. There was the implied assumption that the PR would be looked into, and I guess it just never was. But now the work is mostly done, we can have a drying rack that doesnt need power and allow ashwalker to produce leather as a result. I'd love to see the drip :)

    • Like 1
  2. 16 hours ago, BottomQuark said:

    I would still like to see "off duty" and "retired" alterantive titles. These really cannot hurt since these are still generic and in character viable.

    Apparently, on the HOP console, the assistant is listed as "retirement".

  3. To address something from the original post, I don't think there's an implied uptick of displeasure with assistants. When posts involve a heated/bold topic in general, there is a likelihood of a long response on the forums. But as many posters have stated, they're fine with assistants as a whole. Just to say that I think those sentiments were overstated

  4. 53 minutes ago, TerrorOnTheSeas said:

    Bridge hoboing is dumb from an RP perspective because if you really wanted to hang out somewhere you wouldn't do it in a busy hallway.

    ...yeah people do that. People hang out around streets, hallways, and all sorts of busy places of a university. But even if it isn't the most realistic, it's also not terribly unrealistic either. This repeated assertion that you wouldn't hang around in a busy hallway is correct, the thing is it's NOT a busy hallway most of the time. People would pass by but there is no flood of passersby being impeded by people hanging around the bridge. It also actually seems like one of the places where people interact and roleplay with no real harm to anyone. Why not roleplay in designated areas like dorms? Because people do roleplay in those areas and decide to roleplay elsewhere as well. So like what some others shared, I think is a non-issue.

    I also don't think the fact that it only happens in Paradise is a strong point, just because it's unique to a server doesn't prove it's terribly debilitating or anything. Personally, I think no loitering laws would be more detrimental than bridge "hoboing". I don't understand why you'd rather get players taken to jail for around 5-15 minutes than let them hang around a place, with no restrictions either. I just think people need to open their perspectives a little, I don't think its a big issue.

    • Like 1
  5. Something else to consider is that the base pay is CREW_BASE_PAY_LOW. Another solution could be to raise other roles' wages to medium or high.

    Also, there are still the department budgets which already vary depending on risks or whatnot. There could be some way to encourage heads of staff to start providing bonuses that differentiate the occupations. 

    I'll be honest, the economy update is still relatively new, I think some command players still aren't aware that they can take credits from their department accounts. This could be a better course of action.

    So instead of hindering assistants' abilities to buy items that could actually help them roleplay (instruments, clothing, Nano-Mob Hunder Go), perhaps actions could be taken to encourage the use of an unknown feature to distinguish occupations. Or diversify paychecks overall with varying amounts, although that may be more labor intensive.

  6. 3 hours ago, Kiro said:

    I've yet to once see an assistant "give assistance" in a round, even with the presence of the guest pass terminals, and the SS13 community as a whole seems to not view them that way. It's just a jobless role, that's what it's pretty much universally seen as.

    I don't think that's the case at all. Even if it was, I think the better solution would be to use the mechanics already present to make assistants better contributors. Moreover, the perception of people who say it is a jobless role can only reinforce that statement. I'm sure if you give most assistant players the chance to contribute, without needing to give up their profession, they would. Hell, the headcanon that the assistant position is paid leave is because many assistants are experienced players who just want the freedom the role provides, and they do still contribute to the shift.

    I also don't think assistants HAVE to constantly contribute in order to be considered a job. I think an assistant can enjoy things described like the bar, and still be considered the working crew. Assistants are what they are and there's no need to demean them as unemployed when they relax like any other job, in my opinion.

    People's experiences are variable and I've seen assistants assisting many times along with their chilling. I don't think your claim to universality is valid.

  7. 20 minutes ago, Landerlow said:

    Personally I've found assistant weird as a title. Assistant to what, exactly?

    I just thought they were meant to be assistants to the station overall. They get to choose what profession they will risk their lives to help in the forsaken space station. I thought the station provided Guest Pass Terminals for that very reason,  they have a place in the overall structure of the round. Their position in the workforce is one of learning and adaptability, at least that's how I perceived them. Paid break is a perspective though.

    20 minutes ago, Landerlow said:

    If someone wants to join as assistant (IMHO 'civilian' would be a better general title) that's also fine. Just don't give them a paycheck. 
    You could perhaps get some more alternative titles for the 'assistant' role, to create perhaps more roleplay, but that's perhaps something for a different time/thread. 

    Like, what others have said now. This just seems like a discussion over resolutions to an issue. If you do think this is a better solution, I don't think you need to hold on to it for another time. 

    I'll be on the fence about the suggestion of reduced pay or a "paid break". Although it may be better than the original suggestion, I'm hesitant if such a headcanon should have that much sway over a mechanic.

  8. I'm a little hesitant about this suggestion. Mainly because I think the reasons behind them are flawed. Instead of refuting why assistants aren't helpful to departments, the post just makes a blanket statement demeaning all assistants as bridge hobos, unemployed, and worthless. While the offer to the "issue" is mainly to just make people leave the profession.

    I think assistants are working crewmembers and are useful as their name suggests. I also am hesitant that this change, mainly motivated by the perception of assistants as worthless, could affect roleplay in the future. I am concerned that this change would just enforce insulting assistants and demeaning those players overall. 

    Also, this roleplay aspect already exists to some extent. Heads of staff have access to department accounts which they can pull credits out for additional revenue or whatnot. The assistants have their own "department" account which is significantly lower than the rest. Roleplay could center around that mechanic, which already financially cuts at assistants. 

    I am not entirely against the idea of diversifying the paychecks. I personally like how everyone being paid 125 credits half an hour does seem like a dystopian aspect of the world, NT doesn't even bother because they're so powerful, but I am open to the change.  I just don't particularly like how this suggestion seems to wanna carry that change out.

  9. 18 hours ago, BottomQuark said:

    I was ignored multiple times at RnD. Duh sometimes I would go there, get shutters closed on my face, I would message the scientist inside RnD, RD, Captain and maybe CE on PDA to whine, to just get a response from anyone and get ignored. I would knock on the window to RnD for like 10 minutes asking if anyone's inside, while calling out science on common radio every 30 seconds or so just to never get any response. I know that RnD can literally ignore you, but that's why we literally have heard of staff. Not to just be "Scientist++" or "Engineer++", but to maintain their department. And if RD is an ass then there's a captain who's job is to maintain heads of staff.

    Does asking RD and Captain always works? No.
    But it should work.

    18 hours ago, BottomQuark said:

    If you respect other people they will respect you back.
    Be an ass and people will be an ass to you too.

    I think spark made a very good point here.

     

    I also don't think doing someone else's job if they are not present is that bad of a thing. If the chef is long dead and there's no fodd I have no problem with someone doing their job. But for the love of god, go to HoP and get access to kitchen legit way.

    Maybe I'm expecting too big level of RP from people I dunno, but when I see people just breaking into places when they could've ask head for a temporary pass or just get access from HoP, I straight up cringe.

    I think it's safe to say this post is about how to deal with other players. I don't think the narrow view that respect would get respect back is foolproof, because honestly, it just won't sometimes. The RD shouldn't be a jerk when you respectfully ask for them to open shutters, but sometimes they just stay closed. HOP shouldn't make tedious side objective hunts for a pass, but that happens. You can try to respectfully interact with the chef by standing on the door edge to keep their attention while you try and talk, and you can get your neck chopped and shoved out. Of course, you should respect other players, but I don't think that excuses how other players may disrespect you with their method of dealing with "trespassers".  Asking for a pass is a fine course of action, but I don't think it's the only way because of how players are. 

    I don't think anybody directly denied that public soup kitchens are bad. But I don't think you are obligated to go to HOP and be coerced into becoming the chef, which is the natural course of that interaction. Never mind convenience/gameplay-wise, assistants or other crewmembers taking the initiative to hop over the table and cook until a proper chef arrives is the entire reason I find public soup kitchens endearing. They're not gonna sacrifice their current occupation to stay fed, they're gonna bake basic bread. Add that along with the gameplay convenience of getting people fed faster. Even if it's disconnected from if a chef was already there, it just goes to show the benefit not focusing on workplace trespassing may have, especially if a chef does finally arrive and not immediately kick everyone out.

    I also think there's an important difference between breaking or walking into a workplace. On this topic about keeping others out, I think it is important to differentiate how you deal with either situation. Putting someone in a chokehold for merely walking in before they could explain themselves isn't as condonable to me personally. I just believe it's best that such tendencies for one's workplace be tamed somewhat.

  10. 1 hour ago, Aligote said:

    And even though I can understand a tendency, like a Tider tiding because they're ignored or insulted (or they're just a jerk)

     

    19 minutes ago, AidanFair said:

    I feel like it's justified to break in and get what you need. Or break in and tell someone to do their job. The number of times I've seen multiple scientists in a row ignore the line at R and D. Walk in, print grenades, beakers, tools for themselves and leave. Ignore the radio. Just "I want to do my thing, so the rest of you can get fucked". This includes the RD. Ignoring the line and R and D (or not even knowing how to do it because they spent all their hours at sci making grenades). I feel like a department head should know the basics of their department. But that's another story. If I get ignored by multiple scientists and the RD when I need stock parts. I'm breaking in and disassembling their shit to get the parts I need. Because it's funny.

    Yeah, that fits ¯\_(:/)_/¯

  11. On 9/13/2023 at 9:40 PM, Spacemanspark said:

    Given that I've dealt with this sort of thing across multiple servers beyond just Paradise, I'll give a proper response to this as opposed to a mere half joke like my previous post in this thread. 

    You don't need to enter the kitchen to suggest an idea to the chef. Do it from just outside or via PDA if you really want to do that. When people barge in to do something, it immediately sets a bad taste in most veteran player's mouths; this applies to damn near every job, in fact. For good reason, too--99% of the time someone struts in, it's to do your job/ some element of your job, steal things, or otherwise mess about with you. When this happens for the umpteenth time across many, many rounds, it begins to get tiresome and players lose patience.

    Sometimes players have their own ideas set in stone, and want to carry them out without interference--people pick these roles and not assistant primarily because of that. Occasionally, yes, someone might come up with something interesting to try out, and an ideal time/ place/ circumstance to try it with others (and to this, I wholeheartedly give my thumbs up; creativity is what makes this game fun to experience overall, and I would much rather see that from assistant players rather than greytiding or bridge hobo-ing). But expecting everyone to immediately want to drop what they're doing to play along... ehhhhhhh, no.

      On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    Like seriously, when the chef is absent, the kitchen being turned into a soup kitchen is an experience in itself. The crew has to work together to make what they can and usually, it's an assistant who has to commit and carry that situation.

    The key phrase here being when the chef is absent. I doubt many here would particularly be bothered with the crew stepping in to account for an unfilled/ entirely neglected position. That's considerably different and far more reasonable as opposed to barging in when someone is already manning the role they chose. 

     

      On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    I don't think this is a healthy perspective. Seriously, conflating assistants with shitty behavior overall and using that to justify shitty behavior back is such a flawed mindset. How can you conflate every flaw assistants may commit as justification to treat them like dogs that need to be "kept out"? I know people may be weathered by shitters but does this make such animosity justified? I don't think it is.

    There's some vague merit to this. Putting a negative label on everyone with the assistant title is indeed not the best take--but also consider that across the wider ss13 community, "Greytide worldwide" is quite a popular meme. It has been for well more than a decade, and behind the meme there's quite a bit of truth in the stereotypes regarding assistants. I cannot blame anyone for being a little reserved when coming across assistant players (especially after months of potentially dealing with people being little shits towards you in whatever role you play). 

     

    I play robotics. Not to overly toot my horn, but it's the role I feel quite good at and known for wherever I go--and yes, if someone unwanted walks into my lab without a damned good reason prior, they're going right back outside again. I've had people steal things, break things, waste materials by printing random shit (exosuits and implants usually. On servers with ore silos this can be quite bad if mining hasn't been the most active, since robotics exofabs devour mats if used frivolously), do parts of my job for me because fuck me I guess, or otherwise waste my time and cause chaos because it amuses them to do so. These things happen CONSTANTLY, and naturally I've become quite reserved about random players (regardless of role) strutting into robotics regardless of reason. 

    That said, if someone wants to try something genuinely interesting and fun (lord knows robotics needs more content on just about every damned server) I'm much more willing to indulge them when they don't bust into robotics. Many players operate on similar standards throughout many roles if they don't already have some form of project they're invested in. 

      On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    So even if an assistant is invited in because someone understands they could be trusted, there is an issue of metagaming and "getting in the way"? People can form professional relationships without it negatively impacting anything. An assistant can be helpful as their name suggests, and they shouldn't be obligated to "ask for a job" to have the autonomy to do their original job. 

    This is an entirely separate can of worms. If we're going for the realism argument here (which I wouldn't recommend, but hey) consider that having someone not manning a specific position lounge around a work area can have considerable negative impact--ranging from as small as being an obnoxious distraction all the way to a dangerous obstacle, depending on the job. Assistants can indeed be helpful, but their help would theoretically be coordinated as needed, and not merely allowed into restricted station areas to lounge about. 

    That said, I'm not a fan of realism arguments. It makes for poor gameplay in most cases... and this is a dumb goofy game set in a shitty hell hole of a space station. So, looking past that, from a gameplay and/ or roleplay sense--once again, there's a time and place. Occasionally allowing a friend inside your department (DEPENDING ON DEPARTMENT [the brig isn't a hangout zone, for example]) to chill when things are calm is fine, provided the others in your department don't have any oppositions. Occasionally allowing a friend inside your department if you're overworked and need some help is also fine in some circumstances (if I'm running around trying to repair 20 IPCs and another robotics capable player currently as assistant comes along and offers a bit of help, I sometimes say yes, for example). Teaching a friend or an otherwise new random player your job is also fine sometimes, provided tact is used. 

     

    However, constantly allowing your friends inside your department is indeed problematic. It disrupts gameplay flow (hanging around in big groups makes it hard for many antags to do their thing... or far easier in some cases [conversion antags]), it attracts negative attention from griefers, it instills toxic mindsets and clique behavior which plagues most ss13 servers. 

      On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    However, the number of incidents of security officers finding any reason to arrest someone

    That is indeed an issue (one which has also existed for years and has its own memes and stereotypes), but not what this thread pertains towards. Mentioning this doesn't offer much of value to this discussion. 

      On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    unjustified animosity of some players for their workspace is a prevalent issue that should also be addressed.

    I'd hope my text wall here helps you to understand that it isn't quite unjustified. 

      On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    I think the best thing is to just understand that this is a cooperative game

    Yes... and no. A cooperative game would imply that everyone is largely on the same side. Halo has a split screen cooperative mode, with both players housing the same goals (eradicating those damned covenant alien bastards) and using the same mechanics and character (more or less) to achieve that end (Arbiter is still based tho) 

    Space station 13 is a multiplayer game with some cooperative elements sprinkled in. You have many players in the same server, but they all have different characters. Different jobs, different mechanics, different motivations. Yes, players should ideally work towards making an interesting experience for those around them--but not at the explicit expense of their own fun. There are limits to what's reasonable to expect and reasonable ways to go about trying unique ideas. Many of the game's elements and surrounding atmosphere also cause paranoia and distrust of other characters by design. 

      On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    Also, respect assistants, I hope this entire thread wasn't just about assistants.

    This I will somewhat agree with, in closing. Again with robotics, I've dealt with obnoxious assistants, clowns, engis, cargo, security, other scientists, other goddamn roboticists, medical, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. 

    Some players have good ideas and want to genuinely do fun things. These players shouldn't be overlooked... but at the same time, there's often an avalanche of others who have less than fun intentions when interacting with any given department. To address the title of this topic more directly; randomly entering a department without permission is indeed poor form from nearly every angle, and continuing onward to do things within that department when others are playing said department as is... well, it's certainly not unreasonable to react to such by tossing them out, and when it happens over and over again it's also not unreasonable to grow tired of it and react quickly to stop it. 

    I do appreciate the thorough rebuttal to my post.

    All I can say is that, conversely, like how tiding is a meme that describes a real tendency, immediate workplace aversion to "outsiders" is also a tendency that I've seen memes about as well. And even though I can understand a tendency, like a Tider tiding because they're ignored or insulted (or they're just a jerk), it doesn't mean there isn't an understandable/justified perspective from the other side. I can understand but not support what may seem like reserved behavior against a potential threat by one player, but what seems like direct violence for the other. A chef throat-chopping an assistant may seem like Tuesday to them, but to the assistant, it's a direct sign of disrespect and malice.

    I suppose this goes the same for walking into people's workplaces. While one might see another player disrespecting their boundaries, the other might be trying to close the distance in the most literal way possible. Roleplay-wise, people would try connecting to others by walking up to them, even in their workplace. The fact that the setting makes distrust so prevalent could only make that attempt more interesting. So I don't know, is the disconnected way players react to outsiders conducive to that?

    On 9/13/2023 at 9:40 PM, Spacemanspark said:
    On 8/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, Aligote said:

    So even if an assistant is invited in because someone understands they could be trusted, there is an issue of metagaming and "getting in the way"? People can form professional relationships without it negatively impacting anything. An assistant can be helpful as their name suggests, and they shouldn't be obligated to "ask for a job" to have the autonomy to do their original job. 

    This is an entirely separate can of worms. If we're going for the realism argument here (which I wouldn't recommend, but hey) consider that having someone not manning a specific position lounge around a work area can have considerable negative impact--ranging from as small as being an obnoxious distraction all the way to a dangerous obstacle, depending on the job. Assistants can indeed be helpful, but their help would theoretically be coordinated as needed, and not merely allowed into restricted station areas to lounge about. 

    That said, I'm not a fan of realism arguments. It makes for poor gameplay in most cases... and this is a dumb goofy game set in a shitty hell hole of a space station. So, looking past that, from a gameplay and/ or roleplay sense--once again, there's a time and place. Occasionally allowing a friend inside your department (DEPENDING ON DEPARTMENT [the brig isn't a hangout zone, for example]) to chill when things are calm is fine, provided the others in your department don't have any oppositions. Occasionally allowing a friend inside your department if you're overworked and need some help is also fine in some circumstances (if I'm running around trying to repair 20 IPCs and another robotics capable player currently as assistant comes along and offers a bit of help, I sometimes say yes, for example). Teaching a friend or an otherwise new random player your job is also fine sometimes, provided tact is used. 

     

    However, constantly allowing your friends inside your department is indeed problematic. It disrupts gameplay flow (hanging around in big groups makes it hard for many antags to do their thing... or far easier in some cases [conversion antags]), it attracts negative attention from griefers, it instills toxic mindsets and clique behavior which plagues most ss13 servers. 

    I believed the issue of metagaming was just a way to demean assistants from assisting in departments as a whole. That getting a "real job" was the only way to positively contribute to the round.

    On 8/2/2023 at 12:18 AM, Abydos said:

    I see no issue with throwing people out of your department (Unless they were invited in. But that's another pet annoyance of mine when greydy mctideface is allowed in, because their metafriend is working there and they just lay around, then get in the way of everyone else who isn't their friend) who are causing problems...If they wanted to do a job, they should of signed up for that job / asked the HoP if they can be hired into it.

    I agree that metagaming in that manner would be an obstacle, and I agree from a gameplay and roleplay(realism) sense, that there's a time and place. I believe there are many encounters like the one you described which is what I support.

    You're also right about the nature of the game. It isn't a coop, it's a multiplayer game with different roles that offer different ways of having fun. So instead, I guess I just think the roleplay aspect with others has a lot of potential.

    Ultimately, I agree that walking into another player's workplace and intruding on their work is bad form like before. I can understand where these players are coming from about others walking in at all, especially seasoned veterans who had to deal with such things far longer than I have. But I can also understand my own experiences. So to circle back to the original question, I still believe it's best for players to try and tame their tendencies to kick their fellow crewmember out with hands instead of words, and to be open to interaction as such. Of course, if you're not interested, you're not obligated to engage, although throwing hands may not be required either.

    Also

    On 7/25/2023 at 7:08 AM, TerishaSenpai said:

    elated note, are there any jobs that don't involve making things or involves something only one player can do?  Only things I can really think of are Security or heads of staff, and I don't know if I'm ready for any of that.

    If the original recommendation was for jobs that DON'T involve only one person, like working as a group in security or leading crew like a head of staff, I'd still suggest trying assistant for interactions....or engineering with their demented coworker-bonding power projects IDK.

  12. I found written precedent for shoving and not getting involved in other departments when defending coworkers. However, it's in the Modifiers & Special Situations section of space law. If the position presented was the one held by MattTheFicus, I don't know if I should've been warned the way I was. Although I don't expect perfect customer service, I wasn't informed on why what I did was valid hunting after I explained myself. I'm still unsure if it is.

  13. Page URL(If applicable): Guide to Editing the Wiki

    Description of your suggestion or issue report: When you upload a new image to an existing file to update it, the past file will remain with the new image's dimensions on the page it's used, from the editor's side. The solution is simply to delete one's cache to force the browser to use the new image.

    While this is an issue, I also have a suggestion.

    In the section on "Uploading a New Image to an Existing File" in the Guide to Editing the Wiki, just add a disclaimer to delete one's browser cache to update the image on the page they are working on.

    Again, this is just a suggestion, more thorough solutions would be much appreciated.

  14. There were indeed, mistakes on the Toxins page. The plasma canister was in the wrong port and there was outdated information on maximum degrees and procedures. However, the 67/33 ratio does burn, but you may need to press the ignition a few times. Hopefully, more players will have a better understanding of Toxins after this. Thanks for bringing this up.

  15. Pages: Vulpkanin - Paradise Station Wiki

    Union of Soviet Socialist Planets - Paradise Station Wiki

    Description of your suggestion or issue report:

    Since these pages pertain to lore, I'd like to make a few suggestions.

    First, the USSP page talks about the Vulpkanin citizens on Herars III. The Vulpkanin page only references two groups outside the Vazzend system; the nomadic Kelebunztim and the immigrant population in Sol. Just to be consistent, I think the Vulpkanin page should reference the Vulpkanin on Herars III as well.

    Second, the quote 

    Quote

    “I'm a patriot first, communist second. Nothing will change that.”

    - Pyemi Vedenin, first official Chairman of the Presidium and veteran of the Cygni Rebellion.

    I think it's a little underwhelming. 

    For instance, let's compare it to Malfoy Ames' quote:

    Quote

    "It is not within the rights of any leader to put onto its people oppression, austerity, and slavery. We, all those who found the Presidium, swear to put our people before ourselves, to cherish every citizen's rights like they would their own sons, and to protect our beliefs with our lives. Any less would be cowardice."

    - Sovereignty and the Intergalactic Obligations of Socialist Planets, Malfoy Ames, Page 49.

    And Ames is practically a traitor!

    So, my suggestion is to simply make the first quote longer, and luckily there's a simple way to do that. The first quote is very likely inspired by Ho Chi Minh's quote, "Patriotism first, not yet communism." However, the whole expert of that quote could simply be used as the framework.

    Quote

    "At first, patriotism, not yet communism, led me to have confidence in Lenin, in the Third International. Step by step, along the struggle, by studying Marxism-Leninism parallel with participation in practical activities, I gradually came upon the fact that only socialism and communism can liberate the oppressed nations and the working people throughout the world from slavery."

    It even has a written work that can be attributed to like Malfoy's quote, The Path Which Led Me to Leninism. You could just change it to something like -The Path Which Led Me to Solar Socialism, Pyemi Vedinin.

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