linukas Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Admin Key: Kluys Your Discord name (if applicable): N/A Complaint: I was the warden doing my job updating logs and doing processing until two people who kidnapped an officer were arrested, They were serving their time until HoS and a few of us start discussing potential of them being cultitst ultimately falling to the conclusion that they are Very Likely to be cultists so I reset the timers to get time for the chaplain to come in and test them, Kluys then proceeded to tell me over admin pms to release them as "I had no proof" "you are not above the law" etc. The kidnappers had served 14 minutes 8 of which was for kidnapping and 6 minutes in between. I then asked on the forums how to deal with suspected EOC and got this reply from a senior admin: If you have any legitimate evidence of them being an EOC, you prosecute them according to Space Law. If you have very strong, but not definitive evidence, you have the right to hold them up to ten (10) minutes in Processing. If you find no definitive evidence, you have to let them go. If all you have are suspicions, you leave them alone and just investigate on the side. I feel as though Kluys had no right to ask me to do it and then threaten to "step in" if I did not oblige http://prntscr.com/djxd93 http://prntscr.com/djxdo4 http://prntscr.com/djxdtt http://prntscr.com/djxdy8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kluys Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I will let another admin handle this although I will point out this. If all you have are suspicions, you leave them alone and just investigate on the side. You literally did the opposite of this and even admit to doing so in your message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullyBBurnalot Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Greetings. First off, let me just paste the full conversation here... ADMIN: PM: Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer)->Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus): why did you reset the timer on cell 1? ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): One sec ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): Suspected cult ADMIN: PM: Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer)->Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus): Thats not a crime. release them. ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): We are trying to find a way of testing ADMIN: PM: Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer)->Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus): In the mean time, release them. dont keep people in like that. ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): Oh so we have to release suspected cultists ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): What the hell is that ADMIN: PM: Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer)->Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus): Yes, unless you have proof of some crime, you dont throw people in the brig. ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): Well they were in brig for kidnap first of all ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): And why would anyone in the right mind release a cultist ADMIN: PM: Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer)->Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus): they did time for that. unless you have a crime to extend it on. release them. ADMIN: PM: Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer)->Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus): Because they might not be, and you're not above the law. ADMIN: PM: Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus)->Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer): Ok then, well ADMIN: PM: Kluys/(Tony Wayfarer)->Linukas/(D'jarr K'azerus): if you wait any longer Ill be forced to actually step in. Now, there are few key points in my own reply that I would like to highlight: If you have any legitimate evidence of them being an EOC, you prosecute them according to Space Law. "Legitimate evidence" of someone being a cultist include either possession of a tome/cultist materials, their blood on a drawn Rune, or direct witnessing of cult activity. None of these were present. The person did not have anything cult-related on them, nor did they have their blood on a rune, nor did they do anything cult-related. Therefore, Point 1 does not apply. If you have very strong, but not definitive evidence, you have the right to hold them up to ten (10) minutes in Processing. If you find no definitive evidence, you have to let them go. They key-word here is Processing. The issue here is that this person was already detained. They were already serving time, more time, in fact, than what would be allotted for you to hold them in Processing if you had no evidence. Which, in fact, you did not. You based your assumption that they were a cultist entirely on them kidnapping someone. Which leads me to: If all you have are suspicions, you leave them alone and just investigate on the side. You did not have any actual evidence of them being a cultist. You are not to treat everyone who comes into the Brig as an Antagonist just because there are Antagonists around. All you had was a cloudy suspicion because they kidnapped someone. They did not have any cult items on them, or commit any cult activities. It is suspicious, yes, but that is all it is: a suspicion. So yes, Kluys was perfectly justified in telling you that you could not just hold them until you finished your investigation. This person had already served time for their crime. At the end of their sentence, they are to be released, not kept in the Brig because you have a suspicion they might be an Antagonist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linukas Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Well before that I had no clue how to deal with Suspected EOC's and we were about 80% that the pair were cultists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullyBBurnalot Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 You are expected to know Space Law going in if you want to play Security, let alone a role with the responsibility of the Warden. And you may well be 100% sure, you need something tangible to back it up, not just suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linukas Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 Yes except space law only tells you what to do with confirmed criminals, nothing on suspected at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullyBBurnalot Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 You are also expected to know Security Standard Operating Procedure. Regardless, there is no abuse of Administrator power here. Kluys was, in fact, pretty much justified in telling you what they did, in addition to being factually correct as well. Moving to Resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linukas Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 And again, SOP does not tell you what to do with suspected criminals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kluys Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Nothing because they might not be criminals, You wait for proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadols Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Well before that I had no clue how to deal with Suspected EOC's and we were about 80% that the pair were cultists Linukas, lying doesn`t work with Staffers. (Anyway just to let you know, you was wrong, I wasn`t a cultist) I was SINA- and Aldous was helping me doing "Social Experiments" (Gifting people to the heads) , anyway let`s be serious.. You said you were 80% sure I was a cultist? right? With no proof (literally) how can you be so sure? how can you be so sure that a person that came on the station 10 minutes ago is part of the Cult? and like Kluys said, [spoilertext][/spoilertext] Nothing because they might not be criminals, You wait for proof. That`s pretty obvious and logical, no? [spoilertext] -Kluys[/spoilertext] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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