TullyBBurnalot Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have seen this happen FAR too often to just go unnoticed. Picture this situation: Changeling/Vampire/Traitor gets caught, we have evidence that they're a changeling/vampire/traitor; Higher Authority orders a permabrigging due to offenses commited/just being an antag; Antag, who at this point is chained and buckled to a bed, decides to use a random ability/item/skill to annoy his jailors before he's left to rot in Perma; Powers that be immediately flip the !MUH VALIDS! switch and order a field execution, despite the fact that the antag is chained, buckled and incapable of fighting back This, in my honest opinion, is just another symptom of the illness that is validhunting. Command staff that have to be persuaded AT LENGTH not to execute every antag, but then immediately flip out the second they get the flimsiest reason to go back to the execution order. As such, I'd propose a modification to SoP/Spess Law: Permabrigging: If a prisoner is sentenced to the permabrig, and is confirmed to be properly contained, the sentence cannot be repealed in favor of another, such as execution or borgification, unless the prisoner becomes an active, immediate and verifiable threat to his/her jailors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbdumn5 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That'd be great, no going back without direct, Central Command orders to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allfd Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Permabrigging: If a prisoner is sentenced to the permabrig, and is confirmed to be properly contained, the sentence cannot be repealed in favor of another, such as execution or borgification, unless the prisoner becomes an active, immediate and verifiable threat to his/her jailors. I like where this is going but I do have a concern. It may all be in my head but a few rounds now where the HoS and Magistrate have been on the same page and decided to go the permabrig route with antags I have noticed a decline in the number that get taken alive. My concern is that if this were enacted security officers would find ways to always need to use lethal force and in the cases an antag was taken alive command would always move for execution. By always executing the remove the risk of not having it as an option later. It is too bad, I think valid hunting is behind a lot of the problems with security on Paradise. Perhaps in addition to this change require a higher level of intervention (Magistrate/CentCom) before execution? I don't think it removes the problem of "Died while resisting arrest," but it may ease difficulties with perma being replaced by execution if the above is enacted. In my experience by the time you find out that they want to do an execution, it has usually already occurred or will occur regardless of space law or chain of command. Semi-related I have seen a lot of odd executions recently, some confusion over game mechanics (antag tests) + valid hunting have come very close to resulting in the removal of non-antag players from the round on more then one occasion such as security going after those who get genetic powers during a vampire/changling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I will acknowledge that the valid hunting is just getting worse and worse everday, BUT slamming down that Security is not allowed to change a sentence after the conditions or evidence of the criminal/jailed individual change is going to cause problems, regardless if this only applies to just those going to the Prison Wing or everyone who is put in a cell. Imagine if you were revealed to be innocent or framed of your crimes and sent to Permabrig, but thanks to this dumb rule you're stuck in there until admin intervention has CC clear your name (which makes no fucking sense from an IC perspective) Security may not have known their prisoner was a specific type of antag. They might have assumed it was just a regular tator or just someone who decided to murder other members of the crew, no evidence of husking, blood drain or anything like that on the bodies that were found. And, as stated above, sentences can change if the conditions of the arrest/prisoner change. Permabrig is often seen as the last resort on how to deal with prisoners peacefully, if those prisoners continue to resist and cause trouble, the peaceful option is obviously not working and execution or cyborgification should be looked into. If a prisoner wants to cause of fuss, wreck his jailcell/prison, beat himself up or attack officers, that's his option, but security should respond with appropriate actions. Every sentence handed down by security can be reversed or changed, even execution (through the wonders of cloning or cyborging), putting a server wide ban on changing permabrig sentencing is going to result in a lot less players being sent to the permabrig and just straight up executed or borged if they have shown even the slightest antag related ablities, items or behaviors. Limiting the peaceful option just limits how much people are going to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanov Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 "The greater good of the station should be considered when sentencing" - http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Space_law It's actually in the wiki though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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