Coldflame Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Right now it's pretty vague with the rules regarding the clown. They clearly get a little more leeway with a view of the rules, but forfeit protection under some other ones. The issue is, where the lines lie are pretty unclear. Sometimes the clown clearly takes things too far (grav grief, reprogramming the AI to say honk constantly, etc), but some things can be pretty borderline (shaving unwilling heads, damaging non-vital equipment, etc) In the other direction, it's unclear to what degree things can be taken too far against the clown. Giving the clown a bit of a rough-up for being annoying is widely considered fine, but giving the clown a permabrig on a technicality probably isn't. What I'm proposing is a reclarification of policy in the rules instead of a change regarding just how much the rules differ regarding the jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veganzombeh Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 forfeit protection under some other ones I don't know where you've heard this, but AFAIK the only server that this is true on is NoX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Ban Jhankri Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Erm . . .have you read the rules at all . . .? 12. Clown/Mime: These roles are not an exception to server rules. Remember they are hired by NT to provide entertainment for the crew, not to attack other people. A banana peel in a corridor is acceptable. Smashing someone with a tool box is not. Excessive violence against someone because they are the clown/mime is also not acceptable. They clearly get a little more leeway with a view of the rules, but forfeit protection under some other ones. This is just flat out incorrect. For a while when I was first a mentor, all I did was follow the clown around. There are a few jobs and roles that goot looked at a bit more, these include command jobs, sec, virologist, and somewhere in the line, clown/mime. Many clowns have this idea that some things are funny when they are not. This does not mean they come under scrutiny, in fact, they come under more scrutiny. Often. As for Sometimes the clown clearly takes things too far (grav grief, reprogramming the AI to say honk constantly, etc), but some things can be pretty borderline (shaving unwilling heads, damaging non-vital equipment, etc) only one of the 4 things you listed would be fine. Unless they are antags with relevant objectives, these things don't happen. Damaging any equipment is not a thing that goes unnoticed. Giving the clown a bit of a rough-up for being annoying is widely considered fine by who? That is total 100% shitcurity. but giving the clown a permabrig on a technicality probably isn't. Follow space law, how about? There are minimums and maximums for a reason, and are meant to be used with . . . wait for it . . .Common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldflame Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 12. Clown/Mime: These roles are not an exception to server rules. Remember they are hired by NT to provide entertainment for the crew, not to attack other people. A banana peel in a corridor is acceptable. Smashing someone with a tool box is not. Excessive violence against someone because they are the clown/mime is also not acceptable. That's a very brief description and doesn't really cover the other topics mentioned. This is just flat out incorrect. For a while when I was first a mentor, all I did was follow the clown around. There are a few jobs and roles that goot looked at a bit more, these include command jobs, sec, virologist, and somewhere in the line, clown/mime. Many clowns have this idea that some things are funny when they are not. This does not mean they come under scrutiny, in fact, they come under more scrutiny. Often. The Clown will indeed likely come under more scrutiny than other jobs, but is in general allowed to take things a little too far in the name of fun in most cases (this can be very unclear, hence the suggestion). For example, nobody but the clown/mime(and to a significantly lesser extent chaplain) would ever really get away with things like scrawling messages across the bridge or sneaking into a head's office and broadcasting HONK. by who? That is total 100% shitcurity. That's not security I was referring to specifically, just in general anyone who gets tripped by a peel isn't going to be getting PMed over giving the clown a couple punches once getting back up. Follow space law, how about? There are minimums and maximums for a reason, and are meant to be used with . . . wait for it . . .Common sense. The issue with space law is that it's equally vague. Would tripping someone with a peel be considered assault? Not really, but if it's the HoS and they're particularly condom on a given round the clown's just got themselves a permabrig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Ban Jhankri Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 12. Clown/Mime: These roles are not an exception to server rules. Remember they are hired by NT to provide entertainment for the crew, not to attack other people. A banana peel in a corridor is acceptable. Smashing someone with a tool box is not. Excessive violence against someone because they are the clown/mime is also not acceptable. That's a very brief description and doesn't really cover the other topics mentioned. This is just flat out incorrect. For a while when I was first a mentor, all I did was follow the clown around. There are a few jobs and roles that goot looked at a bit more, these include command jobs, sec, virologist, and somewhere in the line, clown/mime. Many clowns have this idea that some things are funny when they are not. This does not mean they come under scrutiny, in fact, they come under more scrutiny. Often. The Clown will indeed likely come under more scrutiny than other jobs, but is in general allowed to take things a little too far in the name of fun in most cases (this can be very unclear, hence the suggestion). For example, nobody but the clown/mime(and to a significantly lesser extent chaplain) would ever really get away with things like scrawling messages across the bridge or sneaking into a head's office and broadcasting HONK. by who? That is total 100% shitcurity. That's not security I was referring to specifically, just in general anyone who gets tripped by a peel isn't going to be getting PMed over giving the clown a couple punches once getting back up. Follow space law, how about? There are minimums and maximums for a reason, and are meant to be used with . . . wait for it . . .Common sense. The issue with space law is that it's equally vague. Would tripping someone with a peel be considered assault? Not really, but if it's the HoS and they're particularly condom on a given round the clown's just got themselves a permabrig. The rules cover server rules, which will get you a boink, space law covers what will get cuffs slapped on or not. To begin, everybody would be hunted down for graffiti or sneaking into heads offices, that isn't job specific. 4. Avoid Excessive Violence: When provoked into extreme anger a punch or two may be realistic but Nanotrasen doesn't hire people who bludgeon someone to death with a crowbar when angry or bored. Self-defense only justifies a proportional use of force and only what’s required to save your life. Chasing a person down is not self defense, neither is crushing their skull with an oxy tank while they're down. If you think murder or extreme violence is justified in response to someone's actions, then admin help for permission. Even if it is justified in an RP context, without admin permission it is not allowable. Lethal force should always be a last resort, even for security. Remember as well that what the admins will permit and what security will arrest you for a two completely different things. Saying your character is CRAZY LOL is not an excuse for this - that's just bad roleplay. Punch or two, sure, maybe. Crowbar or anything else? Nah. The issue with space law is that it's equally vague. Would tripping someone with a peel be considered assault? Not really, but if it's the HoS and they're particularly condom on a given round the clown's just got themselves a permabrig. This, though. That will get you a bwoink, and likely a stern talking to, possibly even a job ban. If the clown is doing something not in space law, default to handing out injunctions, if something is really bothering you. And if that is really the case, maybe the person being bothered by simple stuff shouldn't be around the clown, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 A slip is at best a battery or hooliganism sentence, and even then, only if they're being overly obnoxious about it. Generally my first response to a clown slipping me when I'm trying to do something important is to either slip them back, or take the banana peel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The unwritten rules page on the wiki seems a good place to clarify this stuff. Please post some examples and questions here and I will try to put some rulings on the page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veganzombeh Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The unwritten rules page on the wiki seems a good place to clarify this stuff. Please post some examples and questions here and I will try to put some rulings on the page I've heard somewhere that atmos grief is only acceptable if you have a hijack shuttle objective. If that's true it might be a good thing to include there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Dobbins Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Just beating a clown for being a clown is not acceptable. I appreciate that. If I'm atmos tech and the Clown (or anyone pulls a fire alarm) then I will hit them a few times with a wrench in order to discourage them from doing it again. I've seen the clown do some things like repeatedly tabling a HoP and Lawyer and getting off without prison, because hes the clown, so spess law applies less to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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