Heads of Staff

[SP00K_E]

As I told Neca.

I give up. This isn't about the incidents in which multiple players have told me to leave the server when I've complained about game mechanics I don't like or metacultures I don't like, but that's what you want to make it about, repeatedly demanding screenshots of that. Just dig through dead-chat for a few days and find how many times stuff along those lines is said by multiple people to multiple people, because that's the culture the server is currently breeding.

You're breeding a culture of metagamers, backstabbers, and moral grandstanders and it's no wonder the server has become stagnant with feature implementation becoming a crawl, new players being cycled out constantly, and regular faces forming unintentional cults of personality. You can't admit that your administration and this server has problems, so you parrot the same BS and deflect on what you want. 

 

Paradise has become a toxic LRP playground masquerading as an MRP server. MRP and rules are only dragged out when it fits the narrative of the community's big names or administration. It isn't even a conspiracy it's simple incompetence, and if you point it out you'll be implied to be wearing a tinfoil hat. The Heads of Staff outright fucking lied to me, deflected my criticism against them with their usual beauracrat by the books schtick. Let's go over some evidence.

Least of concern, Tully outright fucking lies saying that the heads of staff and all of administration extensively discussed proper course of action before banning me. Well then if that's the case why did it take me 17 hours to get any information from a headmin after the fact of my ban because the banning administrators were offline?

Yeah I admit I was wrong about it being because I'm opinionated that someone sought to get me banned but hmmmn? Is there somebody that wanted me banned because they didn't like me on an OOC level? Well it turns out there was, somebody who lied to administration that I was involved in an incident of "IC Rape" (they got their jumpsuit stripped then ran off into maintenance with confirmed vampires and tators, after which worried friends pursued them to apologize) when I was busy that entire round being an antagonist. And what did that person have to say when they fessed up to filing a complaint against me? They blamed me for species hate on slime, called me garbage, and gloated over the fact that I was banned. All because they couldn't handle a little shitposting in an OOC, the literal snowflake slime Serac needed to eject me from the community. And when I complained about them for being disrespectful and basically harassing me using admins as a proxy Necaladun continued to push for logs I can't produce because shit like that happens near daily on Paradise and I didn't have to screenshot every mean word said to me.

The thread the Neca responding to hear isn't even about what people shit talk about on deadchat or elsewhere, it was about Harkness gloating about getting me banned and playing the shame game with me to try to get me to apologize to them for something I never did. He brings in shit that is completely unrelated to the incident I complained about to deflect and continue the same attempt at disarming me he's done already. And just for the extra context, this is the log of what Harkness said to me and my friends over Discord that I complained about, which Neca completely dismissed. He still wants this to be about my ban when I stated in the same thread I don't care about being banned anymore because I don't want to share a server with Harkness due to their two-faced behaviour.

I apologized 2-3 times for my sense of humor in my unban thread by the way. Neca also ignored that and picked apart the rest of the appeal with a hostile overtone, clearly they were never intent on allowing me to appeal in the first place. Neca can't admit that he makes mistakes. He can't admit that he mishandles situations and only drags out the rules when they're convenient to him. He isn't a roleplayer, he's a ruleplayer. Hhehfunnyjoke.

Yeah, no shit it's an attack on the administrative staff, I'm criticizing the administrative staff for the way they've handled the server in the past year that's made me so opinionated against current metacultures and practices. But as has been evidenced criticism is an attack. This isn't the first incident you've been criticized for and will be by no means the last, and as my looking into things outside of this forum has revealed it's likely to never change. You'll never follow your own rules. You'll never follow your own guidelines. You do what you want, when you want, and use beauracracy as an excuse. I no longer wish to be a member of this community, and this will be my final post as it's likely to get my forumbanned anyways.

 

Edit: 

Just an addendum, Dumbdumn you can still give yourself a pat on the back. You were actually helpful and civil through this whole situation.

Edited November 20, 2017 by SP00K_E

[necaladun]

Well, I guess if this is against both me and tully, dumb will have to deal with it! Sorry @Dumbdumn5

 

 

 

 

[Dumbdumn5]

6 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

You're breeding a culture of metagamers, backstabbers, and moral grandstanders and it's no wonder the server has become stagnant with feature implementation becoming a crawl, new players being cycled out constantly, and regular faces forming unintentional cults of personality.

The problem is, metagaming and 'backstabbing' just to be a dick is completely against the rules, you violated the rules and were reported, and as such were banned. New players, often entering from the BYOND hub, are often meant to come and go with a certain percentage sticking and forming new regular players. As for forming cults of personality in terms of friend groups, it's a regular bit of human nature, but the problem occurs only when they begin to violate server rules together or cause other players to avoid them due to their behavior in general.

6 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

You can't admit that your administration and this server has problems, so you parrot the same BS and deflect on what you want. 

I'll be the first to admit that the server has problems if nobody else has in the past, and that's why we have a large body of GAs, mentors, and regular players to let us know what has to change and how it has to change in order to change things around. Right now we're working primarily on community atmosphere, before we were working on staff internal structure, and later we'll likely be working on some other, larger problem. Considering the community is always changing, we usually have perpetually occurring problems that need to get fixed and edited regularly, like the server rules, IC SOP and how we deal with violations to that procedure, both in-game and out. The community will always be further ahead than the rules will be, and depending on how much they care to rework those rules and suggest changes to make those appeal to them, the rules will be dragged along with them.

6 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

Paradise has become a toxic LRP playground masquerading as an MRP server. MRP and rules are only dragged out when it fits the narrative of the community's big names or administration. It isn't even a conspiracy it's simple incompetence, and if you point it out you'll be implied to be wearing a tinfoil hat.

The tinfoil hat argument implies that every complaint involving low RP is met with people saying how ridiculous it is. The problem is, much of the reason the complaints regarding low RP get deflected is that they frequently refuse to include both the how and the what it is we need to fix. A general complaint, such as this one, is something that just has a feeling of global 'wrong-ness', that things are off and need to be different, but nobody's quite sure how that is or what way there is particularly to fix it. 

6 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

The Heads of Staff outright fucking lied to me, deflected my criticism against them with their usual beauracrat by the books schtick. Let's go over some evidence. -image-

Tully didn't lie there, as that reply was posted Sunday, after I had personally received information on the ban and, in turn, presented you with exactly what you were banned for. Though I gave you the reason as to why you were banned, that doesn't mean that I completely disagreed with the why of it or how it worked out in the end, mostly considering that you had still violated the rules with the messages found in the log dig. 

6 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

Least of concern, Tully outright fucking lies saying that the heads of staff and all of administration extensively discussed proper course of action before banning me. Well then if that's the case why did it take me 17 hours to get any information from a headmin after the fact of my ban because the banning administrators were offline?

I had agreed to the course of action later after viewing the logs and before the post you've referenced there, but at the point you had contacted me over discord, I was asleep and, after having pinged Necaladun, had to wait again for him to come online and explain his decision, which was why it took so long in the first place, as you've said. It was extensively discussed later on late Saturday, early Sunday, and the most I can really say is that I apologize for the impulsive banning, but it was still based on the logs that, later, the staff completely agreed on.

6 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

Yeah I admit I was wrong about it being because I'm opinionated that someone sought to get me banned but hmmmn? Is there somebody that wanted me banned because they didn't like me on an OOC level? Well it turns out there was, somebody who lied to administration that I was involved in an incident of "IC Rape" (they got their jumpsuit stripped then ran off into maintenance with confirmed vampires and tators, after which worried friends pursued them to apologize) when I was busy that entire round being an antagonist.

You were involved in the group of players mentioned to be potentially violating our ERP rules, not just the explicitly mentioned incident (though they did falsely accuse you of it over your personal discord), but in a group that has always seemed very close to the borderline of what we do and don't accept. I don't know that you did or didn't later ICly apologize for the incident even though you weren't there, and though it would be a kind gesture, it still doesn't change much of what came up as a result of the complaint that wasn't directed towards them at all. 

7 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

And what did that person have to say when they fessed up to filing a complaint against me? They blamed me for species hate on slime, called me garbage, and gloated over the fact that I was banned.

The problem is that they had to fess up at all because you were accusing somebody else of making the complaint in the first place. It was harsh and unnecessary to insult you and call you garbage in front of your friends, that's what I'll agree with, and that's something we can discourage, mostly because races often have a certain stigma regardless of what certain players will try to do to dissuade others from believing that. From the logs you'd posted of your conversation with them, I'm not sure if they were gloating or just telling you that 'it sucks that you got perma'd' and going on to say what you did wasn't really acceptable by the server rules, as, contrary to their belief, we'd not seen anything on this behavior from you before at all. They were needlessly rude in that case, but they weren't unreasonable or excessively hostile about it either from what we've been shown so far.

8 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

All because they couldn't handle a little shitposting in an OOC, the literal snowflake slime Serac needed to eject me from the community. And when I complained about them for being disrespectful and basically harassing me using admins as a proxy Necaladun continued to push for logs I can't produce because shit like that happens near daily on Paradise and I didn't have to screenshot every mean word said to me.

They weren't harassing you using admins as a proxy, they made a complaint and we responded by contacting you, asking you what went down, why it went down, and discussing it with you further from what I've personally been shown. The logs Neca was asking for were discord logs or key phrases in what you remember that they might have said about you in deadchat or elsewhere, not that you have the logs word for word or screenshots of them, as we can look them up with our current system. Having a screenshot of everything is unrealistic, which is why we sometimes have to make conjectures on word vs. word and back it up with logs that support the case, as we don't have the ability to view a full round back on itself and tell what everybody was doing by more than speech and attack logs.

8 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

The thread the Neca responding to hear isn't even about what people shit talk about on deadchat or elsewhere, it was about Harkness gloating about getting me banned and playing the shame game with me to try to get me to apologize to them for something I never did.

I don't see them as trying to get you to apologize for anything, it's much more the accusation of having done something and general tense arguing over them having created a player complaint against you, not asking you to beg at their feet for forgiveness. The thing is, we can't tell what their intent was in the moment, and you being the source of the information do have a bias of being the one accused of something and currently permabanned because of it, so that makes it difficult to take your word for it that they fully intended to strike that deeply and cut to the point that you don't even want to do so much as be on the same server as them for fear of interacting with them again.

8 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

He brings in shit that is completely unrelated to the incident I complained about to deflect and continue the same attempt at disarming me he's done already. And just for the extra context, this is the log of what Harkness said to me and my friends over Discord that I complained about, which Neca completely dismissed. He still wants this to be about my ban when I stated in the same thread I don't care about being banned anymore because I don't want to share a server with Harkness due to their two-faced behaviour.

He did mention the screenshot, but only in such a way that describes that he's not seen anything explicitly rulebreaking within it. Even if it is shitty to call somebody garbage or rag on them infront of their friends, but we don't know what else there was in that chat, and we can't see into it further because it's on a private discord server. He seems to only mention the ban because you'd brought it up specifically in your second post, but the first part of this AC is explicit in letting us know that you don't intend to come back, but he still discusses the meat of things where he asks you to show us or tell us some examples of exactly or at least around what they might have said to you so we can try to log dig similarly and find out if they've been as uncivil to you as you make them out to be.

8 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

I apologized 2-3 times for my sense of humor in my unban thread by the way. Neca also ignored that and picked apart the rest of the appeal with a hostile overtone, clearly they were never intent on allowing me to appeal in the first place. Neca can't admit that he makes mistakes. He can't admit that he mishandles situations and only drags out the rules when they're convenient to him.

He addressed the apology directly in the appeal, he just didn't think you were sincere by how everything else was worded by the way he's taking a firm stance on the lower part of the appeal, which does involve picking apart a lot of the argument, but he's blunt, not incredibly hostile, and it's an important difference to recognize between a stern admin and somebody who hates your guts. I've seen him admit his mistakes before over the reddit and through appeals in the past before, and they're often not completely well received, mostly due to the stigma of the server already long present on the reddit. Though we have incredibly different styles of adminning, I've not known him to drag out things that are unnecessary or avoid dragging them out when they are, and much of his judgement, though harsher than my own, often is well grounded in his experience. 

9 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

Yeah, no shit it's an attack on the administrative staff, I'm criticizing the administrative staff for the way they've handled the server in the past year that's made me so opinionated against current metacultures and practices. But as has been evidenced criticism is an attack. This isn't the first incident you've been criticized for and will be by no means the last, and as my looking into things outside of this forum has revealed it's likely to never change.

There is an effort to change, but much of the problem is atmosphere based and we have to sort through the community for that to get changed, meaning supporting community efforts like the TRG or trying to filter out or change poor attitudes in others so that the server is a bit brighter. It's likely going to change over the years and I hope to do much in the time the server remains operational, and even after that, continue to try to better the community and interact with them. Criticism is no attack, but the thing that makes it seem as such in the post you're referencing is the general-ness of the complaint and seemingly hostile tone. To fix those larger problems that you attribute to the staff, I need examples first, things to do better, and policies to tweak so that we come out with a better system than the one we have now, as there will always be room for improvement.

9 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

You'll never follow your own rules. You'll never follow your own guidelines. You do what you want, when you want, and use beauracracy as an excuse

We have and hopefully will continue to follow our rules and guidelines, the latter maybe not to the letter, but the guideline exists to build something off of and create a personal style of adminning off of, not to blindly follow something that might not always be correct, nor right. Much of the reason the bureaucracy and guidelines exist is to protect players from admins by preventing admins from taking certain actions, and doing what we want, when we want isn't supported by that at all, and never has been. It's a complicated, often difficult system to balance, and not without its flaws, but it's something we have and continue to work with until somebody comes up with a better one. 

 

9 hours ago, SP00K_E said:

I no longer wish to be a member of this community, and this will be my final post as it's likely to get my forumbanned anyways.

I'm sorry that you feel that this has to be the final thing you ever post on the forums, and in addition, that you have to leave the community overall over something that time and understanding could have likely healed.

I don't believe that Necaladun or Tully have acted out of line in these cases, nor do I believe action to reprimand or otherwise act on them aside from saying 'things could be a bit less blunt sometimes' is necessary. We will likely continue to disagree on these points as a matter of perspective. I'll be leaving this open for 24 hours in the event you want to continue discussion. @SP00K_E