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Regular Joe
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Posts posted by Regular Joe
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1 hour ago, ZN23X said:
I feel like learning in security is handled the same way it is in any other department...veterans teach the new people. Regardless of their job title.
And you learn alot just but doing the job. I could explain to you how to properly play sec at nauseum for endless hours, nothing teaches you how to play security like patrolling the station, dealing with the shit, and dying countless times.
This honestly SHOULD primarily be the job of the HOS, and secondarily the warden...but I'm very aware that inexperienced players frequently play both, and even when that's not the case, too many HOS just treat the job like they are an officer with better gear and access and don't actually LEAD security. Hence why I said any veterans in the dept should do this regardless of their job title.
While this is true and this way it will work, as it works now, I'd see the idea of having somebody dedicated to teaching and overseeing as a buff in what HoS and Warden, along with veteran officers, are doing: the leadership and good conduct of security. I'd reason it by the thing that there is often too much to deal with for the warden and HoS keep enough eye on how officers do, even if they want and are able to. Though sec can't do everything, in other hand, anyway, and that's a part of the game, but that side could need a buff.
So I'd see this role to be about of preventing security doing bad. By doing bad I don't mean them 'losing' to antags, it's not a thing about winning - but not acting accordingly to SoP, space law and sane manners, misconduct. The latter doesn't add to the game, as we know it's also a nuisance to the receiving end. Also with the HoS role I'm most stressed of the fact that by the book, you're lone in duty to deal with misconduct cases as HoS - while an IAA is excellent to deal with them after they've happened, hence I love IAA's - and in the same time you're in duty to keep the officers informed and acting against the situation at hand. A good leader sure won't try to do everything alone, and often there are good hands to take over with stuff happening, so that as the HoS, I can concentrate more on whatever are most necessary at the moment. What the instructor role would be about, is to be an explicit sign of somebody who is willing to help in this cause as their primary job, thus making it happen more. Also it could be a sign for those who are not sure on what they do to ask this person. In an ideal situation new officers ask help, and well, the not-listening types would ideally not exist. But what happens is, that you need to observe, who needs some guidance and/or shadowing, be it either because of they are new or they are not caring.
An extra pair of eyes to this, so.
What comes to other officers, they should teach new ones and report bad stuff happening, too, and that's how it works now. But dedicated role would give some authority for the one to do that, as everybody knows that this is their job, along with the thing that if you have people with explicitly given jobs, the jobs will happen to be done more, compared to having duties shared along with many, so even if the people you had at hand were the same.
Concerning IAA's, IAA's are to deal with issues already happened. In contrast to them, this idea would be to prevent bad things happening, thus not taking IAA's work away - if they are unruly, the instructor will pass the job to IAA to be investigated and/or HoS directly.
On the name, I'd say to give the instructor some authority over other officers, it would feel reasonable for their job. So for sergeant. Though it should then to be made clear that they have no independent force, but are dependant to HoS on their actions, like warden. And what comes to things other than conduct and training they would be an officer along officers.Training officer has a feel of being just a trainer, while instructor, sergeant, warrant officer kind of names points to somebody that is active in the field with the mission at hand, while not having independent or separate authority from their commander, but well, that's just my feel. It is bit on what we are looking for as an example. FTO's are a thing in police enviroment, and for what I know they are active field cops as well.
And of course it's a question if it actually works, while it seem neat as we speak. Could try the same as Furasian is going to, to get an title and focusing on it, if I have time for it soon enough.
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I'm full in for this idea. In fact I was about to write up the same suggestion, until got into Discord discussion with Furasian, along with other people, who had been thinking on the exact same thing separately. I think there is a need for this kind of role to sec. The issue, in which this new role could be the answer, are, if you ask me, quite the two kinds of misconducting officers, the types that Necaladun mentioned:
13 hours ago, necaladun said:1) People not experienced with the game in general who want to get access to weapons and beat people up. These types won't likely listen at all.
2) People who don't have sec experience yet, and might know other systems, but not combat/sec stuff. They'll likely listen, but may make mistakes like harmbatoning or getting charges wrong.
The HoS is in charge to herd the officers to do it rightly. To deal with the first group you need to supervise the conduct of the officers and then fire hopeless cases. To deal with the second ones you need to, well, to supervise officers to notice these cases, and then to show them the ropes or make someone do it.
The situation in hand is like this. HoS is more often than not very tasked already. As HoS I love to make officers do it good if they won't do already, but often I just can't see the bad cases happening, or have time to react them, be it (force-)firing or teaching. Bigger problem is noticing conduct things, as firing or teaching could be allocated to somebody else as HoS if they had the argument for it. Warden, as they stay in brig, could notice and correct mistakes - in processing they already have to, as it is their job. Moreover, experienced officers could and often they will teach those in need, but they are not in charge of it. Then there are IAA's. But they are to deal with misconduct when it is already done, and are not sec to be able to show things.
The good thing in the instructor idea as I see it, is that we could have an officer role which has training and supervising as their charge. Having duties allocated to different people makes things to happen better. And, in the other hand, many bad stuff in station happens because nobody cares - or knows to care; well that is just so in organizations generally.
And here, the issue is that it is really nobody's job to ensure that other officers do it right, except for HoS, and Warden on processing, even if good officers do teach new ones and make it known if they see rash mishandling. People who would take the new instructor job would then have watching over other's doings in their mindset, as it is their job. So somebody cares and actively tries to know to care about it. From the viewpoint of new officers and echoing Furasian there, an instructor could be easier to ask to teach the stuff for them, as they know that it's their job. So all in all, the instructor would either teach when asked or supervise and correct if not asked to.
Reading what've been posted here, there's so far two ideas to implement the role. Either make them an officer along with officers with a special job, like warden is now. Either make them a VIP with VIP authority.
I had my idea, like Furasian put it, of the instructor/warrant officer/sergeant to be an officer along officers, with their special duty. I'd see the plus side for the instructor to be such as people might be more likely to pick that job then. As their primary job to ensure officers act accordingly and teach new ones, either as they ask to or either as they note somebody that needs instructing. As secondary they would do officer. As the officer job is as secondary there, the instructor would always have work to do - if they do it well and no need for teaching, they can do officer's work as usual. That might resume to people taking that job more often, compared to an instructor VIP.
However the idea of the instructor being a VIP is neat aswell as I see it, it has different side add-ons in it. I would, personally, at least like somebody that is all-security advisor to the HoS. (Magistrate is there if they are, yes.) Specially in the highpop rounds there happen to be lots of information to deal with and lots of important decision to deal with. Concerning this, it would be the VIP instructor's secondary job to assist HoS in close co-operation with them. Namely HoS could turn some decisions to them to do, like how to sentence difficult crime cases (if magistrate is not present), how to deal with some threat, how to deal with some unruly/misconducting officer and so on - if he is busy in one such thing and can't do others in time. That way sec could run better as not all the decisions is up to HoS, if they're crowded with them. This something that happens already, too, but again it makes things to run more smoothly if they are clearly allocated to different people.
I would say more yes for an officer instructor - kind of sergeant -, but still totally yes for both ideas, whichever is seen better to be implemented, if so.
Role-play wise, an instructor job is present in both law enforcement and army. Senior army NCO's has ensuring conduct as their job in their unit, as the commanding officer has their focus on operation, even if the latter have the last word in conduct affairs, as well as conduct is not the sole thing to do for the NCO's too. Instructor with VIP status would work as well, as advisor/adjutant or instructors that tag along an active unit are a thing aswell.
Moreover, the idea of a cadet role is neat too! That could endorse those new to sec to ask for showing the ropes. Also it could easen the step to do officer job. Recalling my first shifts as sec, I had myself hired from the manifest as a cadet with basic access. Then spent that shift practising stuff with somebody. Back then Iwas kind of afraid to take a roundstart officer job, for high standards are expected from security - both IC and in rules, too.
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"Through pain to the stars", says a lone spaceman in a town with no name, far away from everything... except for some syndies, dust, and spaceman's trusty toolbox.
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It takes two to tango.
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Hey, this sounds fun.
On 4/1/2019 at 7:51 PM, LuKat said:Give Service a Head, but without Head authority, like what the Quartermaster is to Cargo. Give Service... The Health Inspector. This hero to the station spawns with:
(1) clipboard
(1) reagent scanner
(1) health inspector's stamp
(1) fashionable suit, worn on spawn.
Check food for drugs. Walk around the Kitchen with Harm intent and obstruct the chef. Hold the authority to fire Bartenders, Chefs and Botanists. Ensure that the Botanists are growing FOOD (not nothing but food, but at least SOME food). Form a love/hate relationship with the chef. Have blood feuds over whether or not the chef should cook 'healthy' food.
HoP is still your boss.
A kind of QM for the service, yeah. A commander of the force fighting the source of (almost) all evil, that is shit. Hereby profanely referring to dirt, litter, garbage, waste and all other kinds of stuff that is either inusable, disgusting, irritating or inefficient and is caused by the service department (of course there are other sources of shit, but they should have their departmental inquisitors already), be it litter on floor or litter on food or litter between some janitor's, botanist's, chef's or bartender's ears to somehow be litter instead of doing it right.
A hermeneutical study on some (1) spaceman's thoughts says, that 48% of on-board shit happening has their primus motor on station being dirty, food's being poisoned, botanists doing unruly or traitorous things (never trust a botanist) or people spending their time on bar intoxicating themselves (though that might not make bartender the one to blame). These here are referred as shit. While the other 50% of bad stuff are of greytide, and 2% of enemy activity (percentages totally not altered, our station is safe, always), it has to be kept in mind that the unnecessary shit affects catalytically to the latter, too. So outruling shit could use some effective, determined and hard-working leadership that the Health Inspector (other suggests I'd thought the title to be: Service Inspector/Supervisor/Foreman, in case of they could held authority over said people) will provide. I could already hear their booming voice from the kitchen: attention, lock and cleanse!
On the serious side of the topic, supervising these things are under multiple personnel now. HoP and IAA, for chef partly CMO. It works, fairly. Especially the IAA could have good time dealing with these things, if they happen to be a problem. But considering highpop rounds, this idea could do out very nice, for the amount of chaos that just naturally generates. And IAA is more to deal with issues already happened. They couldn't... lead an operation of hygienizing the station. HoP could but they have rather lot of duties already. Moreover, there quite isn't ever enough of fight against chaos.
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11 hours ago, Eraukon said:
HE LOOKS LIKE WHITE DEATH!
Aside from that you are madly creative, I am about as creative as offbrand cereal boxes so mad respect.
Oh, yes. So I managed to draw a Finnish face, that's what I tried to, as a part of a story I thought for Jean. For the rest you got to pardon my creativity
that's a kind word for nerditry,thanks, buddyto start drawing without actually knowing how to. I used this as my guide:Spoiler
EDIT: owl. See you down there.
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Hope he won’t haunt you. Well that is for my 1337 gimp skills, as I actually drew that one night with pencil, then tried to give him some colors digitally. He’s rather gothic on second look, could try later on to make it less... yeah.
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I heard of discord last summer from bunch of local boyos I held LAN parties for during my summer job, as they asked me to join their discord server. Thought like, a server, what? Are they nerds enough to run their own server? TLDR when I was young it was irc channels, and oh yes, phpbb forums.
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1 hour ago, TheClosetMailman said:
Guess i`ll
diehonkI knew something's wrong down there when I late joined and saw that on lobby screen.
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Sketched my spaceman and edited this a bit.
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13 minutes ago, davidchan said:
Yeah. If warden gets acting HoS and no one is running warden tasks in primary, it is then so that one person has all the overseeing things to do, and that results in something that slips through. I mean there is always things that sec just can’t do, but unnecessarily. Above all it’s bad if there then happens bad sentencing, abusing or just plain forgetting about taking care of prisoners and-or people that are being processed and such. Same thing happen to happen if there is a HoS but no warden. Should ask then some officer to do wardening. (I’ve foolishly not done that often enough).
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Rebel’s guide is great. Having a good warden in sec makes the department alot better in many ways. I would stress the knowledge of both spacelaw and SoP, along with being nice to the prisoners, that is using some sense. That, since good wardening can effectively prevent shitcuriting.
Good conduct is of course a duty of everyone in security, but the role of warden gives processing and sentencing as your duties in primary, so you actually have the time to watch over those. Lawful sentencing and processing according to the SoP are kind of focal point in determining whether it’s shitcurity or not, as somebody doing them wrong can even ruin people’s rounds. Aside with law and SoP sense is to be used, too, for effective justice. Co-ordinating officers may also be a thing to do, namely if HoS doesn’t do that somebody has to, and the next senior is warden. Comms is the another big thing in doing it good.
So know your law and SoP really well and act fair yet firm and you’re a great warden. Yet one thing that measures your knowledge of the spacelaw is the experience in applying it to various cases, be it observed or done by self. So you got to play officer for the sake of knowing those indepth - or IAA, even better. As Splgrk said the mandatory robustness there is just about handling the prisoners.
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1 hour ago, ZN23X said:
If more security players and antags played this way it would lead to rounds being so much more fun and interesting for all. I know I've beat my chest about this endlessly on the forums but, I'll continue to say the best security players know when to turn it up and when to lay off the gas. Stomping the antags into the ground constantly doesn't make someone a good sec player.
That is the spirit. Sec side, space law and SoP are constructed quite well to guide to the direction of not stomping. Applying the ideal of "innocent until proven guilty" , instead of "guilty until proven innocent" while considering sec moves will do it. Though yelling might happen, when that antag you dealt, in doubt, with the lighter way, becomes a threat that needs the harsh actions, but yelling to sec happen usually so better let it be. That's better for the round and also better than having then an innocent held up or even killed, which will inevitably happen from time to time, if sec is played without being able to justify their actions with proofs. As the "proof" I've been applying, considering processing, direct evidence, like possessed S-class stuff, enough witness on crimes or alien powers of the suspect, and forensic evidence. If any of these are lacking anyhow, that is - this about processing - we know don't know whether the evidence is linked only to the the suspect, then the actions should be accordant, that is lighter, or even releasing. In short we say: consider context and evidence with common sense. Common sense as both in-game situation and otherwise minding that both side are players and we want to both accomplish IC missions and have a round with fair play.
Talking of which, there could still be some more interpretation guidelines in the space law, even if sense is the thing and you'll get the guidelines by experience. Namely the interpretation while sentencing the suspects we possess, since the basis for usage of force is very well explained both in SoP and spacelaw. So I say "I've been using as the proof...", I've had to learn that mostly by making questionable decisions to the both directions, being too lenient or too harsh. Even if that will happen anyway as there is the certain fog of war, in which you have to make your calls (that's something I love in the game anyway), some explicated guiding would do. On antag actions I'll echo the above said. I feel like this being a question to consider here too, as sec actions affect their actions, as above. I'm not after to tie security in favor of giving antags more space, but actually having some black and white behind the in-doubt decisions could easen some pressure they experience to act rash, while acting rough is sure all permitted when situation and/or the law demands it. Yet this is bit far away from the topic of antag duty to retreat as a rules matter, that's all answered.
Hadn't somebody suggested not too long ago that magistrates could do IC paperwork on their decisions, that would be then readable later as IC books, like the library system? For spacelaw interpretation a public library of a number of sentences would be fun. Though it is a question whether there are any time for magistrates to actually file that kind of stuff, or more, a warden or HoS to read and employ that knowledge.
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Honk.
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The locker room, or hall, is missing the equipment vendors, clothes and stuff. Artvend was present, fair enough. Cargo is missing the vendor of banhammers and such stuff. Did virology get a pipette after previous tests?
There could be just some more maints, altough their layout is neat. I like it, it gives more room to do things.
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A close friend with whom I've had secret vice of regularly having LAN's - of course with absolutely nerdy games - since kids, introduced me. That was last summer though if I remember right he did tell me of it a time before that, but then I didn't try. Both times it was Mandalore's video during a break after extensive DOOM sessions, so I guess we both count as being bought here by Mandalore. That my friend plays here too, but we don't interact much in station. As far as I know he isn't even around OOCly (if you read me anyway, thanks, nerd).
But yeah I was immediately sold for it. My first two rounds comprised of getting killed by oxyloss at arrivals at first and then being introduced into the art of flipping by some chaplain and being thralled by Slith while maintlooting. My successes back then were being able to flip, to talk into the sling hivemind and to make a spear (for I thought initially that being armed is mandatory in order to stay alive, couldn't actually believe they were not after my spaceman. As you could guess got quickly to know that oh yeah they aren't, and when they are, they will slip and honk you to the chest faster than one could spell Desmond Summy, and then kill you, probably squishing in the process). Then got into medical, somebody effectively taught me chemisty during my first medbay shift. Played medbay until I felt comfortable enough with the game mechanics to try security. Thankfully, that shift HoS Heidi Kujala did recruit me from the manifest, so long I've most been into sec, if not a med. Mentioned these, for I love it most because of the attitude here. Couldn't think a video game to get much more human, while still being a fun game about some men in space.
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The cloning getting used too much -thing was something that was feared to happen with the newcrit - at least in this topic - so yeah that is not so now. Regarding to that, in the new issue of newcrit that seems no more of concern, since there is reviving defibs again and also more ways to counter the shock - for what I've lurked the github. Concerning experience, just saying on my behalf,
since I'm not that nerd, yetbeing the noob writing in this company, that I wrote around for pure interest on the topic, not thinking of being the one who knows how to make roosters lay eggs (a Finnish proverb) ie tell anyone how to run medbay, or a hennery. -
So it is xenos, sec already dead and they say you're all doomed? Overrun the enemy with no weapons other than your nifty viromancer skills - and a bottle of space cleaner!
Engineer your biological weapon to contain Necrotizing Fasciis, VEA and a couple of your favourite boost symptoms. Make sure the delivery method is blood only.
Then take your virology cleaner bottle, empty it. Do enough culture bottles to fill the cleaner with the veapon virus. Take and wear the biosuit to avoid facehuggers and head to the battle.
There, just spray the blood on xenos to infect. Med HUD will show you when they got it. HUD nor the scanner won't tell you their actual health. Scanner can't tell if they were infected, too, but obviously you aren't scanning them.
Depending on the stats of your virus, at least with the necrotizing fasciis the xenos will die in couple of minutes. It takes more time compared to your test animals, but that will happen. Since xenos have no means to cure themselves of the virus, those who you are able to infect are doomed. The weakness of this strategy is of course the question whether you are able to flee the xenos while spraying them. Oddly enough, syringe gun loaded with a payload syringe won't deliver the infection so the spray seems to be the best way to do it. (Don't try to persuade the being to take your "healing virus" via injection).
Tested this locally so should be valid!
Some other facts on space biological warfare:
- The space cleaner with blood will infect you if you hit the spray yourself. Blood on the floor is not contagious.
- You could use other spray cans to fill them with your virus and hand them out to the crew, if the command dares and actually will believe your claims about fighting them biologically. However the other cans will only hit the tile you click in, as it is with other reagents too.
- Too bad you can't infect abductors, spiders, terror spiders, shadowlings or devils, demons and such.
- I did not test whether xenos will get infected via the other means, that is contact and airborne - in theory, if you had already released healing viruses to the crew that way preventing them to get infected, you could engage in even more total biological warfare by playing with the airborne delivery.
- If the maximum amount of advanced viruses will again be more than one per mob, there could be even more possibilities to engineer the weapon virus.
- Currently I think the fasciis will be sufficient as a payload symtom, as we might prefer the other symptoms to boost the overall stats, that way making fasciis, which is already bad, really deadly - speaking of virus against xenos.
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Bio resistance counters to blood sprays, as well as the other delivery methods, so sadly you couldn't infect a nuke agent.
I've had to try it before realizing that nukiesuits have 100 bio resistance.
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So the five man squad arrives, and three of them gets instantly killed by lighting during fighting xenos near vault.
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Station is destroyed by nuclear blast! One lonely perma prisoner survives digging iron at gulag, with having the oftiser as only companion. Together they mine to the sundown, now that’s blues isn’t it.
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3 hours ago, Pckables said:
To give even more context from the cultist perspective:
The slippery cult sacrifice target was the pod pilot, who was AFK in their pod until security raided the engineering outpost base. After a lot of yelling over medcomms, we were joined souls out of security's hands and went full-on war. The target was finally out of their pod and heading to medical, so in response, cult went all out and killed pretty much all of security in medbay with a single attack... with the exception of the target who ran away. Now that security is dead, we've got a handful of people trying to capture the target, one or two people reviving dead cultists with resurrection runes, and the latter half getting new converts with no resistance.
The sacrifice target manages to get into a gygax and starts gunning down every single cultist they find, until I destroy it with EMPs and get killed. Target gets a second gygax, again gets destroyed by EMPs and manages to run to the labor outpost with a borg. During all of this, the cult is continuing to convert non-stop and the round has been voted to continue because of the chaos.
We chase the target down to the labour outpost, but the borg is on the shuttle console, forcing me to go around. Borg shoves the target into the locker and runs out into the asteroid, also killing the target via space, luckily a corpse can't run anymore. After a short bit of hide and seek, the borg gets EMP'd and the body gets grabbed and teleported back to station for Tribute. If there were any non-cult left on the station, they were holed up in the brig, helpless as the Cult casually summoned in the captain's office to their victory.Epic. Totally
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The one guy in the grey jumpsuit keeps yelling shitcurity noraisins!!! even after the batons, flashes and disablers of two redshirts.
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1 hour ago, Xyd said:
His brain was in the bartenders safe
Even more noir! If only realized to check the bartender's backroom... I enjoy the cluster fun of being security and HoS. The clauzewitzian fog of war there is to act against is quite something that I've never met in other games.
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8 hours ago, Xyd said:
The amount of internal screaming I was doing, after presenting evidence that was pretty damning against Shane O'Brien. he was let go and even allowed to take the brain of the person that was killed.
Glad to see justice prevailed in the end!
Yeah, I missed the brain at the original scene, thought that the arresting officer searched him and didn’t actually notice when he disappeared from there due some comms mess, my bad. That officer didn’t say anything on the case later, apparently didn’t search Shame on the spot or I don’t know. I then lacked the final evidence on the murder, even if everything said that Shane was the culprit. Implanted and kept in touch, then.
Shane apparently forced the victim him to play russian roulette - without the chance to win... - if it was true what he said before the end. We were at the spot quite in time, but then the brain slipped through us. I had fun time grilling him the whereabouts of the brain or anything I could deem as the smoking gun, and him vice versa.
That was most of a noir scene for me for a while, for all the stuff involved, you, victim’s PDA messages, Shane both gambling and denying everything... neat. Too bad for the victim since his brain end up floating somewhere in space.
SEC Instructor Jobs, A Remedy to Newsec
in Suggestions
Posted · Edited by Regular Joe
Yeah, agreeing on all there. Didn't mean to express that the instructor role could deal with the whole issue. As you put it, it actually can't be rooted, namely, foul mentality (mentalities) to do sec jobs (I love the proverb on your signature, "The greatest flaw of being an intelligent species is we cannot force everyone to be intelligent." Kind of applicable hereby). And then some honestly have the idea of winning as their motivation, while being fine otherwise. To pull that thing to a better direction is just to give an example by doing, rather than having a role for it.
So I'm trying to say that the instructor would fill another needs, namely some more... in-hand things. To prevent and correct them. I love how Furasian actually reads my thinking better than I did on my own writing:
Excellence in little things. This kind of stuff (and then the wordless tasing, or more grave things) happen a lot, and more often that not are left unnoticed by fellow officers and above all HoS who is by book in charge of herding their loose batons. And not always of sheer carelessness of them, but of being in hurry. And in difference to IAA, the instructor objective would be to prevent. So the instructor would endorse excellence in little things, and this way giving the HoS some more time to have the initiative on the mission at hand. (Pardon me for military jargon - those two are something that is referred in about every commander's address, even if it's christmas eve and raining horizontally, I'm both in love and traumatized with it.)
Even if this position could be done poorly as of in-charge positions already are, I believe giving an IC framework for it would atleast add to game (if not, as it totally wouldn't, deal with the roots of the issue) by giving sec an another person with the both the mindset and explicated job - along with the HoS - to feel a duty on how the officers are doing. Then, again, this is also done by veteran sec. Yet having specific jobs helps the issues, that the jobs are created to cope with, to be actually dealt with; I'd see the issue Furasian decipted is big enough for to have a specific job on it. I feel the little things as an issue while doing sec, specially when doing HoS. Just frequently not having enough time to cope with misconduct, even if it's still rather simple: "you claim the arrest reason first, then ask, and tase if they flee, right? - Hey, don't take that nitrogen off voxy. - Don't leave your arrested alone in processing, if you arrest, you either call warden, or do the job yourself if he or she is unavailable, ten minutes limit right?"... and so on. Could use another pair of eyes for that, while them eyes know that it's their job now.
I could imagine it to be an interesting one to play too. Being a trainer and then in other hand a sec along with others. Having an IC framework for it makes there some authority to do it.