Bmon
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Posts posted by Bmon
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2 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:
15x15 with a gun for example you get something about "you can't focus your aim this far away!" or similar. Its a cludge but it satisfies a piece of the balance issue.
I don't think many people aim this way? Personally, I hole my cursor somewhere in the middle of my viewport and lead my shots. This wouldn't do much because you're not clicking the other person's sprite so no way to block the shot.
3 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:I am open to suggestions on how we sort this, since its a feature I want in, and a lot of other people do, but we cant impact the playerbase who dont play on 1080p. On that note I do want to profile what screen resolutions we get the most here, but I dont know of a good way to do that without snapping it with JS and something something GDPR. It would make for some nice figured I feel though.
Take a look at the Steam hardware survey if you want a general idea of what monitors most people are using.
Keep in mind account for aspect ratio not resolution. Resolution is just pixel density which means nothing to SS13(pixel game lul). A quick google search will tell you what aspect ratio a certain resolution is.
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This is a fantastic feature that I've seen successfully implemented on two great servers (Goon, TG) and has been implemented on countless others.
The only reason SS13 and most older byond games are 15x15 is because monitors 20+ years ago most monitors were big blocky 4:3 CRTs. In that context 15x15 makes perfect sense, but in today's world where I can almost guarantee you no one here is using a 4:3 monitor, a 19x15 viewport is the way to go.
Some servers even use a 21x15 viewport like goon, cit and skyrat which is roughly what 19x15 viewport looks like on a 16:10 aspect screen.
Also, briefly touching combat advantages. Two extra tiles on the side of the screen in the grand scheme of things isn't that big of a concern. You can compare SS13 with any topdown game released in the past decade to see that they all give an advantage to the sides of the screen far greater than two tiles in most cases.
Regardless, we should not be so strung up on the combat advantage of two tiles, our focus should be on the overall gameplay and feel and this does wonders in improving it.
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17 hours ago, S34N said:
Your PRs got closed, it sucks, but that doesn't mean everyone is out to get you and are silently plotting to smother your ideas.
Could communication have been better? Yes, I think this has been established. You started a very reasonable discussion and pointed out, rightly, that there is always room for improvement. Don't ruin it and leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth by arguing for the sake of it. I am personally done with this thread because of your attitude.
Let the cogs turn and the improvements that follow from this be set in motion.
Woah there, I don't think anyone is out to get me nor do I think there is a conspiracy against me, that would be silly. I am usually upfront and blunt with people so I am sorry if you feel as if I was being argumentive, it was not my intentions
edit: Probably best to leave it here. I am going to shut up now.
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1 hour ago, S34N said:
I mean literally the last one you linked has a comment explaining why just before the PR was closed.
Saying they prefer another PR but not stating why is not an explanation.
1 hour ago, S34N said:Mira's PR dataset is clearly stated as being PRs opened from after January 14th (With one being opened late on the 13th), so the first and second ones in your list do not fall within the timeframe.
I don't think a single day really changes my point much. I picked those examples based on the day they got judged by the design teams.
Also, why are we trying to fit these into an arbitrary timeframe?
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6 hours ago, MattTheFicus said:
You are free to put in the time to find them yourself, then.
I can only speak from my own experience so these are my PRs.
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/19836
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20096
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20115
All these never got a why.
PRs being closed by the author are irrelevant. Don't know why Miraviel decided to list them.
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2 hours ago, Miraviel said:
PR closed by maintainers without stating a reason on the PR (4):
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20396
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20386
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20382
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20205You definitely missed a few there.
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3 hours ago, Spacemanspark said:
The current system as Arc has pointed out appears to work well in this regard, if how they explain it is true. Much better than what came before it, at the least.
It's a perspective thing. If you compared the development cycle from uhh idk around 2017 when I first started playing, of course, things are better now. I am just noticing things slipping back, it's hard to see that happen considering the strides in progress that have been made lately on the development side of things.
I am always going to be a pro-transparency purest, that's just who I am and what I believe in. Some wise old man would probably tell you and me that the solution lies somewhere in the middle.
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6 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:
I have seen enough people do exactly this, many times over. There is a reason why the Paradise maintainer team has (or at least at one point had) a reputation for being in a sort of turtle shell, and it's exactly because people constantly went after them. The PR creator also definitely gets flak too, of course--but they aren't the ones with the power to add their proposed feature into the game (or refuse to).
I am 100% all for communication, but you do need to look both ways before crossing the road here. It's a two way street, and I would take burnout into serious consideration when making these sorts of suggestions.
I am sure it has happened, I am not at all dismissing that. I just believe that it is more detrimental for us to be closed off than it is to be open with our development decisions.
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38 minutes ago, AffectedArc07 said:
This is absolutely incorrect. The split into teams has bought on more people who are actually willing to write objections out onto PRs instead of hitting a button behind the scenes and not caring. If you take a before
And an after
I really dont see the argument here
I understand how the Paradise development team works so I am just going to skip over that part.
I don't know why you're cherry-picking examples, I could do the same with more recent PRs to try to prove a point, there will always be outliers. I made this thread because I noticed it was happening more now than it was before.
And I am not even touching on the fact that a lot of the times there are only one or two people are voting. In your own example, only one person voted on that PR out of a team of five. The least the design teams could do is to take five or ten minutes to look at a PR and say yes, no or abstain. Before at least the whole team was getting together to vote on PRs which lead to discussion, this has all but stopped in recent times and has led to an overall decline in communication.
44 minutes ago, AffectedArc07 said:When you wake up to 3 death threats (no this is not hyperbole) and nagging over the most minute of objections, you will see why sometimes we keep quiet about objections, especially if the PR is likely to get you absolutely slated for it. I also want to cite this from the GitHub code of conduct, specifically the first sentence.
Moving on I really do hope whoever is making death threats over 2d spaceman game gets swiftly banned. I do understand where you're coming from though, especially with that example, I think special circumstances could lead to a PR being voted on privately but I do not believe it should be the norm. Regardless it is not good practice to be closing PRs with no explanation, it pushes contributors away from wanting to contribute to this codebase.
45 minutes ago, AffectedArc07 said:It is also worth nothing we do ask people from the teams to try state their issues more
And yeah, sometimes we do get explanations but again it is my own opinion that this has been in decline.
45 minutes ago, AffectedArc07 said:The PR tracker could potentially be opened up, but that will be a lot of tape crossing and policy changes. However, the internal development chat will never be opened up, purely because:
- Exploit discussion
- Discussion on disciplinary action on other GitHub contributors
- We really dont need the frothing masses berating us when we even think slightly about a possible rework
Your bullet points do prove that some things should stay private but I am still of the opinion that the greater development channel should be visible. Most of these things could be moved into separate private channels. I don't think many people will be down your neck for merging X PR. Again, it is my experience that the contributor usually gets most of the flak for an unpopular PR being merged.
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1 hour ago, Spacemanspark said:
Banning someone does not prevent them from being a toxic twat in the first place. You cannot solve every administrative issue by playing whack-a-mole, and burnout is a very really concern when it comes to being a part of any SS13 community staff team. I've always been fully on board with having development team communication with PRs, but I dont think opening their chats to the public solves the issue you've made note of. A simple comment on a closed PR doesn't take terribly long to write up (in most cases) and goes miles in alleviating a lot of anger some might have (in most cases).
I agree that something like that constantly happening could lead to burnout but I just don't think many people would go out of their way to harass the maintainer team for voting on PRs. In my own personal experience, it's the PR creator who gets most of the heat for an unpopular PR that gets merged.
I guess what I am getting at here is wanting to understand why maintainers voted the way they did and how that could be useful for understanding what should be changed in the future. An explanation could do this but most of them are rather brief and usually don't give the full picture
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If someone is going out of their way to harass a maintainer for voting a certain way then they should be banned, simple as that. Being able to see why the X design team voted the way they did and their thought process behind that would lead to a greater understanding of what went wrong.
Right now we get nothing but a blank yes or no which in the case of the latter is nothing more than an absolute insult to said contributor as you are talking about potentially hours of someone's free time being flushed down the drain with no explanation. I don't see any downsides to making the channels visible, most counterarguments honestly feel like a strawman of 'somebody' 'potentially' harassing the maintainers when the obvious answer to that is to just ban people who do that.
Also, this adds zero extra strain on the development team, they don't need to come out with a statement every time a PR is closed or merged, you could just look at the respective design channel and figure it out yourself.
Many other servers already have their development channels visible and I think we would clear up a lot of frustrations by following in their footsteps.
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I have noticed a massive decrease in communication and transparency on the github ever since PR voting has been split into different design teams. It's to a point where I myself no longer want to contribute to this server as it is a massive morale zap to see your PR closed with little to no communication from the different teams.
I think it'd be productive to see exactly why and how the different teams are voting on PRs the way they are. There's no reason for our PR review process to be private, we are an open-source codebase.
Do note the differences between visible and public. I am calling for all development channels to be made visible meaning that anyone can read them but not talk in them.
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We got third!
I want to thank everyone who watched and our team memebers@Eric6426and @ItsMarmitewho had to fill in for Corn and Hal.
We did amazing considering all odds were stacked agaisnt us, couldn't have made me any more proud. Thank you!
p.s. fuck cancer. parasweep 2023
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For those of you that aren't on TGs discord
Date and time has been announced along with sign ups being opened. @CornMyCob& @CharliminatorAre you both free at this time?
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On 10/30/2022 at 12:33 PM, Boardwalksky said:
Stupid question, but what’s the downside of using a lethal weapon and only aiming for the head instead of the limbs? Sounds like the easiest way to kill someone
On TG a 357. round will deal 60 DMG no matter where you hit them, it's just that if you shoot someone in their leg it caps out and disables it or decapitates that limb(if the weapon is sharp). You're not able to kill someone by shooting their leg unless you inflict a wound and cause them to bleed out.
Aiming for the head or chest on TG allows you to stack someone with enough damage to kill them, the downside being that's where you're most likely to be wearing armour.
None of this matters on Paradise because our limbs have no damage cap so you're free to shoot someone in their pinky toe 100 times to kill them.
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14 hours ago, Boardwalksky said:
I like that idea but think changing body parts mid fight to sound like a hassle.
Then just target the chest/head and don't go for the limbs. That's exactly it works on TG.
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There are obvious counters to each type of armour, a slow down or any other type of drawback would be unnecessary.
Honestly, normal armour is pretty useless right now since you can target any limb to negate almost all of it. What we should do is a damage cap on each limb to force people to actually aim for the head/chest.
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3 hours ago, Warriorstar said:
I'd much rather have the choice be random, but if we are dead set on receiving player input: I say keep the map vote, but only use player votes as an input for weighing the random choice. That way the people who do vote, and thus care about what map they play next, have a slightly greater chance of having their vote count, but not so much that it completely overrides the result for people who don't vote.
Sounds like you're describing urn voting which was voted against by our design team in this PR
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/18489
Two Headmins saying no to this happening means it just won't happen, ever.
I would have loved to have a vote to decide on what to do with the current map rotation system, unrealistic as it is for me to want that on Para.
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But then you have to account for special round ending conditions like a wizard dying or a blob taking over the station.
I think it would be best to extend the round end duration from one minute to two minute and force a pop-up instead.
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13 minutes ago, Aligote said:
What's MOTD? You could also @ everyone on discord in announcements and force them to vote via reactions....
Message of the day (MOTD). It's what you see when you first connect to the server. Yes a discord ping would work, me saying to use the MOTD is me being a boomer again
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2 hours ago, necaladun said:
If there really is a high demand for non-box maps, then encouraging people to vote more seems to be the best option. Not removing people's ability to vote for their preferred option.
Forced pop-ups, sounds, a bigger icon, all that seem to give the players on the server the best and fairest choice. Removing the option to vote for a map entirely comes across as grossly unfair and the 'sour grapes' option.
Currently the only thing that can be done is begging in OOC for people to vote a map other than Box, something that can get you banned on other servers. We already have a sound iirc and forcing the vote menu to pop-up would only happen if there was a way to permanently disable it as an option, thus in my eyes defeating the purpose.
If we really want the most fairest thing here wouldn't a community wide vote to have this config option on or off be it? I get that community wide votes on issues that effect the whole server isn't something that's been tried on Paradise, at least to my recollection, but you really can't get much fairer than using direct democracy.
I believe enough people want this to at the very least warrant a vote.
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7 hours ago, necaladun said:
With low voter turnout, then it should be even easier to switch to a different map if enough people cared about it. That not happening shows it's an incredible minority of people who want a different map - it should be pretty easy to get Delta voted in with such low turnout, so this just shows that other maps aren't popular at all.
Taking away what is clearly the top choice 50% of the time seems quite wrong to me. Blaming it on people being 'conservative' discounts valid criticisms and dislikes of other maps. It's no surprise to me that people would prefer the map with 9+ years of work done on it. I can't remember the exact numbers or even where they are, but the tests we've run of other maps have generally shown a clear preference for Box.If you want the choice of the players to be respected I suggest running a community wide vote on whether to enable this config option or not.
I don't think it'd be too hard to add a forum thread with a poll in the MOTD. Or at the very get the staff team to vote on this.
A community vote would show what everyone wants, not just what 10% of a server voted for in 60 seconds.
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51 minutes ago, necaladun said:
The idea of changing things so that even if 99% of people want a map, it is only selected 50% of the time at most seems incredibly unfair to me.
If enough people vote for another map, then that map will be picked.
None of our other maps are being played, and that's really due to our community being locked to only Box for the vast majority of its life.
It might seem unfair at first but it genuinely is for the best and is standard practice on the vast majority of servers with a map vote to prevent what is currently happening on Para, having the community gravitate to one map.
No one will play the other maps if they're not encouraged to and then we get stuff like this:
Doesn't help that our voter turn out is usually pretty abysmal and other maps are only picked when someone is actively begging in OOC for other players to vote said map.
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Changing the config option "non_repeating_maps" from false to true will prevent players from voting on the currently played map during the map vote.
Paradise has an unhealthy attachment to Box which stems it being the only playable map for the vast majority of this communities life. Our other maps will never updated, made better, or otherwise fixed if no one ever plays them. And when someone does try to fix one of our maps that isn't Box it can be highly demoralizing when those countless hours spent mapping are essentially wasted as it goes completely unused.
For me at least I think the most frustrating part is that our other maps Delta and Meta aren't even bad or broken, it's just everyone is stuck in their ways with Box and refuse to vote for anything else. To be honest, this is going to force peoples hands a bit, and there will probably be people complain about having to play other maps, but we've been playing Box for the past nine years, so I think it's about time we give other maps a shot.
This monotonous cycle of Box Box Box Box Box needs to be broken and this is one very easy way to do it, it's as simple as changing a config option from false to true.
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2023 TOOLBOX TOURNAMENT TEAM
in General Discussion
Posted
*TOOLBOX TEAM NAME PENDING EDITION*
Once a year TG Station hosts a charity tournament where different servers come together to bash each other skulls in with toolboxes for a good cause. This year's charity of choice is Doctors Without Borders.
I am currently looking for two other players from Paradise to join me in kicking some ass and putting on the best show we can in the name of charity. Last year we managed third place out of thirty-plus other teams! The tournament is currently scheduled for Dec 16th from 3:00 PM to 7:00 PM EST.
Also, I haven't settled on a name for the team yet since I was bullied by both Paradise and TG last time for picking a boring name :( . I'll probably pick something suggested from this thread so brainstorm away below!
More details about the tournament and charity can be found on the TG Station Discord.
SIGN UP NOW!