Kluys
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Posts posted by Kluys
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4 minutes ago, John_bigless said:
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Please try to stay on the topic of opinions on our current staff policy towards antags, not how you specifically act towards antags.
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I would like to gather some general info, please state your opinion on how we handle antagonists and non security crew attacking them.
Are we ok, too lenient, too strict or is there to much grey area and are there any changes you would like to suggest?
Edit towards staff: I would prefer staff hold out for 24 hours before posting as I want community input on this without staff possibly priming them.
Edit towards players: This is a personal request of information from me, not the entire staff. Do not see this as a referendum that will automatically lead to anything.
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No it's specifically for people who have received multiple warnings or bans so we can ensure they have changed. That way the players on the server who do abide by server rules get the server they deserve.
This method has been shown to work.
Unless the ban is changed one tip would be to play on a well known (large) server. A vouch from one of those is generally stronger.
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A head will handle the complaint but I would like to clarify that "everyone else" includes other people who have received vouch based bans. You aren't the only one.
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Just to give a short reply regarding the question of the OP.
There is little chance we will ever allow people to steal antag objectives when they are not an antag. If they want to do such a thing they can easily request admin permission to do it if their reason is good enough. Consider that part of this thread off the table unless a head wakes up and says otherwise.
I am however all for discussing ways to make theft objectives more interesting so I will leave the thread open as long as the discussion doesn't get heated.
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Can we please stay on topic, this isn't about the supermatter and it isn't about the power balance.
it is about the two main engines and one being underused while the other is overused.
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@davidchan it is less about balance of power produced and more about one of the two main engine systems going unused (even though it is quite fun sometimes and in my opinion the more engaging one of the two) because the other one is a direct upgrade in safety, time required to set it and maintainability.
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The Tesla is a direct upgrade to the singularity right now meaning that the singularity is essentially useless.
I would like to discuss ways to put them on equal footing again either by giving the Tesla a downside or the Singularity an upside.
I would prefer giving the singularity an update but ideas for either are welcome. I will make a suggestion and maybe try my hand at coding again once something proper is thought up.
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I'm sorry to tell you this but since the person in question was a prime minister for 10 years and has only left office 1.5 years ago they are pretty famous.
The line is at the discretion of our admin team but generally speaking its best not to use names of anyone who has been in a well known position within the past few years. sadly drawing a line specifically is impossible due to the nature of the rule.
You can name yourself Steven Harp or something like that if you are dead set on continuing with the name.
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Forgot to mention I won't be handling the complaint I will just be posting the relevant logs for both admin complaints right now so other admins have an easy time handing it. I am not capable of being online reliably right now.
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Posting the relevant logs now.
ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Why is Kilimina running around with the job title Vampire hunter
ADMIN: Da Dman234 : I have no idea but I think we should shut that shit down quick
ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : quick
ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : give someone an objective to murder him
ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : or bwoink him if he's actually hunting right now
ADMIN: Scrubmcnoob : pref the ic way
ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Sure.
ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Sending vampires after him.
[Spacemanspark setting antag status on 3 people + 1 who PM'd they didn't want it/had their preferences for it off.]
ADMIN: Da Dman234 : I think there are two now
ADMIN: Fethas : .....why?
ADMIN: Spacemanspark : It's encouraging validhunting, really, and we were just talking about sending vamps after him.
ADMIN: Spacemanspark : We've been trying to curb the whole chaplain vigilante DUES VULT memes as of late, have we not?
[some time passes}
[One of the vampires then goes on a mulebot murderbone spree while beeing watched by heroo]
ADMIN: Heroo2012 : They killed the chaplain
ADMIN: Heroo2012 : Wow, the amount of bodies
ADMIN: Heroo2012 : I observed on how they proceeded with the objective and everyone who they killed were either trying to call their hiding spot out or trying to kill them.
ADMIN: Spacemanspark: I was kind of hoping they'd actually use vampire abilities to do their task...
ADMIN: Spacemanspark : Damnit.
Relevant admin conversation between dman and aracino
ADMIN: PM: Da Dman234->Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na): The kill was legit.
ADMIN: PM: Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na)->Da Dman234: I just want to ask, was I even his objective? Since he just walked in, and kileld me. Then spaced me.
ADMIN: PM: Da Dman234->Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na): It's being dealt with
Would also like to note that darklordpyro actually stepped in to investigate things, good on him.
ADMIN: PM: DarkLordpyro->Aracino/(Ki'Li'Mi'Na): I will look into it myself, I was de-admined at the time so I'll go around asking questions
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So here is the relevant admin conversation. (IN FULL COLOUR (TM)) I won't be handling the complaint I'll just be posting this here so another person doesn't have to go look for stuff.
PM: Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless)->Xandertifft/(John Mann): you deal realize you are breaking...ALL THE SOP as hop right now?
PM: Xandertifft/(John Mann)->Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless): im not hop....
PM: Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless)->Xandertifft/(John Mann): then what are you and why d you have that much access?
PM: Xandertifft/(John Mann)->Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless): its war ops
PM: Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless)->Xandertifft/(John Mann): ......dosen't fucking matter.
PM: Xandertifft/(John Mann)->Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless): its kinda an IC issue.... and why am i getting pissed on here?
PM: Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless)->Xandertifft/(John Mann): you should not have that much access OR uploading freeform AI laws without permission.
PM: Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless)->Xandertifft/(John Mann): its an IC issue that should not be happening...Do not do it again.
PM: Xandertifft/(John Mann)->Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless): WHAT DID I EVEN DO?
PM: Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless)->Xandertifft/(John Mann): now i am gonna ask..who gave you this level of access?
PM: Xandertifft/(John Mann)->Fethas/(Sesvex Ssless): THE HOP
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@Ansari It will have a tick delay to chemicals reacting with the body like normal, any chemical mixing inside the body will still happen instantly.
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I do understand. As I've said both parties thought they were doing the right thing but that failed to be compatible. I can see how you do feel involved.
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I'd like to say a few words on the matter since the situation seems to be heating up and I am largely impartial to this. There are two things that seem to play here.
- Post hiding by spacemanspark
- Neca alledgedly singling out imsxz
Ill begin by saying that on point 1 I can see where Spacemanspark was coming from. We had previous instances where people added opinions where we hid those posts to keep the complaint coherent. What is different here is that from your perspective you were adding information whereas from our perspective we already have confirmation that that wasn't the case. (I will get to that) This made Spacemanspark see your post as an opinion rather than actual information. The hiding here was done then to keep the complaint coherent, not to censor you. You both technically did the right thing but it turned into an issue because of a difference in perspectives.
For point 2 I'd like to explain to you why I think you weren't PM'd for something imsxz got their PM for. Imsxz in all likely hood got noticed because he found a dominant strategy and used it rather often. remember that we get a large flow of logs thrown at us, explosions, smoke grenades, mech weapon use, attack logs and a few other logs all have the same light blue color. If someone is beating someone up and you create a small explosion the log for the explosion might be hidden below those other logs. this wasn't really a matter of who the player was personally but who did it often enough to get noticed.
I hope that provides a little bit of info to you, the actual complaint is still being handled since there are other sides to this but I hope we can let this side of the issue rest if you're ok with that.
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Please stay on topic everyone.
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21 minutes ago, FlattestGuitar said:
second idea you proposed is basically the same thing, just with slightly more restrictions on what you have to do after the murder. Just...no.
Making antagonists interesting isn't just about giving them lethal force, patting them on the back and saying "go wild" while laughing maniacally, especially if this leads to dozens of people in dchat enjoying their .45 cal emergent gameplay.
The rarity of the objective could play a role in this, the main point of the rule and the objective are to make death more unpredictable. the objective could therefor be as rare as a kill objective or as rare as a hijack objective and still serve its purpose, that is up for further discussion if the idea of the objective is liked.
EDIT: another big issue I have with tension personally is that I usually don't have enough time to join a lot of shifts meaning I am forced to late-join. I know that that is a personal issue but me joining later shouldn't make it possible for me to predict my chances of dying, essentially that is a part of what I mentioned earlier but more specifically focused on late joiners.
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I have recently been thinking about the amount of tension during certain roundtypes and things that make this game fun (or not). A big part of me thinks that we are currently neutering "lighter" antags to much which removes a lot of the tension and fear of traitor vampire and changeling rounds. The issue I have here lies with one of our rules.
QuoteThe role of the Antagonist may pit you against the station. However, this is not grounds for murderboning the entire crew if your objective is to steal a jetpack, as you must work towards your objectives, not general mayhem. You may, however, antagonize/murder specific people who will help you complete your objective or who are hindering you from completing said objective.
Because of this rule the chances of being the target of an antagonist attack go down significantly, especially for those who join the round later during the shift. For example, on a busy shift of 80 people lets say we have 8 traitors onboard, lets say four of them have kill objectives. Unless you are a head (meaning there is a reason to kill you for your items) this would mean the chances of actually being a target during the shift are about 5 percent. the chances of being a target when you join a second after the shift start are even smaller, possibly even zero.
This removes a large aspect of the game which is not being 100% certain your fellow man is trustworthy. As long as you late join as a non head crew member you can be certain that traitors will not target you because they risk the chance of getting banned if they do. The tension and fear of not knowing what is going to happen during the shift, of whether or not you're going to make it out alive or be attacked is gone at that point. My first question would be if others agree with me up to this point. That it would be more fun if there was a bigger, less predictable chance that you're a target.
My second question would be to think of ways to fix this, I have come up with two different solutions myself. A change in the rules, or an additional objective. The proposed change would be a policy that allows antags three kills regardless of their objectives. this would mean a few things, first and foremost you will not be able to completely trust your fellow crew members and have to rely on role playing and watching their behavior to see if they are really a normal crew member or a threat to you. Secondly security would be less powerful, with more people dying they have to deal with more investigations, more investigations mean antags that prefer a stealthy approach can find an opening in the chaos to make their move. Thirdly it would free up time for admins to look into other issues in more detail since antags don't have to be looked after as long as they stay within the other rules and don't go past three kills + possibly their objective.
A different route to fixing this issue would be a new objective. the syndicate identity collection objective would be my proposal. This objective would require you to kill a certain number of unspecified crew members and take their ID's. A possible objective would be "The syndicate requires the theft of 3 identities. Collect 3 ID cards, and make sure the owners are dead when the shuttle docks at Central Command" This would create both a bit of lore behind station infiltration that is actually visible in game and increase the risk of being killed if you don't watch your back, it wouldn't rely on joining in at round start either so the safety of doing so is removed.
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Just gonna put this out here, I'm to tired to form a coherent opinion on this but I do know some coding facts and I'd like to take down expectations on one single thing. Increasing or dreasing movespeed "slightly" is impossible because of how move speed works. A slower heavier borg might be nice but a faster one becomes an issue because of this move speed issue. A faster borg would essentially run around at the same speed overloaded gygax's, oddyseus's, meth abusers and pods move around with. This is way to fast for normal gameplay and will put borgs at a huge advantage compared to antags. Or any other being.
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Im going to be hard here and state that we are activly looking for ways to change drones but none of those ways include buffing them in any way.
Furthermore we have had a case where we ported an AI module from another server and accidentally ported their drone laws as well, this switched the first and second law. This created so many issues it was quickly noticed and reverted.
We will never under any circumstance allow drones to interact with other beings more than the bare minimum by fulfilling a similiar purpose like repairing or maintaining the station. Any case mentioned here of bringing materials to people or messaging the AI means you're taking a severe risk of getting permanently banned from drones or cyborg positions. (drones Pai's borgs and the AI)
As a result the only suggestions here that are completly feasable following the scope we have for drones are 3 and 5 where 5 might be changed into just improving the matter decompiler for simple trash items. Also 2 but as an extended variety of items the mag gripper can pick up, not every item.
On a sidenote, please stay on topic and follow basic ettiquette. We are watching ?.
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Right time to step in for MR Kluys.
You were doing something that could be seen as insulting by other groups of people. We don't want that on our server. You get told to stop. You didn't stop and got yourself banned. Good job.
HOW TO FIX 101 BY PROF KLUYS.
Step 1: Don't get yourself banned in the first place. Literally the only thing you should do is not attempt to say insulting shit about other groups of people, we don't care how much of it is true we only care about how it impacts our community
Step dos: Stop when an admin tells you to stop something. I am not going to explain this further.
Step π: Attempt to appeal your ban before making a really stupid complaint on the forum. No seriously you're complaining about breaking 2 of our rules and getting banned for it.
I am going to be a bit harsh and honest here but your actions have made you the laughing stock of a lot of people as of right now and I think it's in your best interest to just stop this complaint. If the banning admin actually abused you or had literally no merit to remove you from the server then yes, complaint valid. but they did. complaint without merit. go appeal it instead and maybe we'll let you back in. on a side note, the rules are in no way a list of everything you could do to get kicked out and some basic common sense applies, I suggest you go search for said common sense before attempting to strike a conversation in the ooc chat again.
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@Love-To-Hug Please stop, We want feedback on new maint and the changes we could make, I proposed a few changes. Feedback is not opinions without a reason attached to them. We cannot work with that and that is what I'm trying to tell you. Accept that bridges do not fit within the theme maint should be going for in my opinion and move on to provide an actual source of information regarding issues with new-maint or things that are better over old-maint.
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Please give feedback on maint and how to improve it, not where I should gather my info, I've played this game for 3 years and I trust myself in seeing where issues lie, Ill finish up on the other maint areas and make a PR then see what people do.
Opinions on the handling of antags and valids
in Public Archives
Posted
Throwing in my own two cents I do agree with Moxie for the most part, less antags would be a good way to offset giving them more leeway in my opinion and I'm against making sec open season as well.
However one thing I will add that wasn't stated in that post is that I find our current ruleset to unclear which leads to antags being handled vastly different by different admins. I feel that would either require a full rewrite or further clarification on a seperate page.