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Machofish

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Posts posted by Machofish

  1. I'll weigh in similarly to what I've said in the discord thread for xenos.

    Firstly, the thing with player-controlled xenomorph infestations is that the winner tends to be decided rather early on. I've both successfully coordinated the purging of Xeno infestations on Paradise playing as HoS and also led successful Paradise xeno hives as Xeno Queen before. In the initial 10-15 minutes of the xeno queen's nest being found, the big question is whether the crew are able to mount a competent response or not. In that early stage, security can count on a significant advantage in numbers that can usually outweigh any insta-stun cheesiness from the 2-3 xenomorphs defending the queen. Past that point, if security's first wave fails or if security is too braindead to organize a wave at all, then the xenos are basically guaranteed to spiral out of control. The way to win as Xeno Queen is to know how people behave and do things they won't expect: hiding facehuggers in maint far away from any weeds or other signs of xeno infestation can get you a few easy infections. As a starting hunter, you don't have to bother fully abducting crew into the nest, you can just run around medbay throwing facehuggers at everyone: medbay is rarely competent enough to perform embryo removal surgeries faster than you can spam out facehuggers.

    10 hours ago, Pckables said:

    You also need to consider how xeno's are going to handle escalation.
    The thing about their instant guaranteed stuns is that it's all they have against crew with guns and shields, because xenos are mechanically overly simplistic.

    Sentinels/queens have spit, but the other two have nothing.

    So what should each type of xeno be doing when crew are fully armed with lasers and shields and all the vents have been welded?

    I agree xenomorph drones certainly don't have much use at present: they're backup builders but the thing is that the Queen is really the only one who needs to be building. Sentinels can already lay down nests to restrain facehugged victims and all xeno types can plant xenoweeds, so drones are a bit useless at present. One good suggestion I saw in the discord was that dragging/carrying/moving hatched facehuggers should be limited to the drones and the queen only, which could give drones a bit more use other than twiddling their fingers hoping that the current queen will die.

    However, implying that xenomorph hunters 'have nothing' is ridiculous:

    • Hunters run faster than a crewmember at full nutrition. If you're playing a hunter and you see a crewmember who isn't armed to fight you, you've already won. They can't defend themselves, can't escape you, they can't run. Even if they have a gun, if you're in an open space like medbay then you can just zip around matrix-dodging their bullets or lasers and then pounce or one-click-stun their butts. I'd say this is also the major reason people find xeno instant stun to be 'unfun'. If a xeno knocks someone down and starts dragging them off, there's no way to save them: this is the case with all other speed boosted antags, too, as gun-armed crew only have a ridiculously tiny window of opportunity to intervene if they see a speedy xenomorph running by with a victim, and the vast majority of firearms are actually incapable of inflicting enough damage within that tiny window of opportunity to accomplish anything, even if you plant all shots on target. Basically, if a xenomorph hunter shows up on-screen and you're playing anything other than security, there's basically nothing you are anyone else can do to save you.
    • Hunters have a leap, just in case you're too lazy to dodge bullets by frantically mashing arrow keys. The only hard counter to this is riot shields, but don't worry: even if the HoS is screaming for all officers to carry riot shields, I guarantee you there'll always be swarms of numbskull players who fail to heed this advice. If they have shields, just run up and click on them. It's easy.
    • As if the high movement speed and leap weren't enough, hunters also have a stealth mode for ambushing attackers. Toggling 'walk' while standing on xenoweed tiles, as a xenomorph hunter, will make your sprite transparent and obnoxiously hard to spot so long as you've got plasma stored. I've seen hunters single-handedly wreck squads of security officers just by ambushing them from stealth—and I've done this myself as a hunter a couple of times.
      • Ambushing works the best if you set up near other xenomorphs, using the principle of aggro so that approaching officers are too distracted chasing your other xenomorph buddies to notice you hiding around the corner.

    Given all of the above, I cannot endorse buffing the xenomorph even further. If players are doing poorly with xeno hunters that's because they're not playing it right.

     

    I do, however, want one change made to xenos overall: their melee stun shouldn't work on cyborgs. There's no explanation for why all xenomorphs can perform a fucking Vulcan nerve-pinch to a cyborg that's immune to the crushing pressures of space and immune to all other conventional stuns in the game. The xenomorph cyborg stun actually lasts significantly longer to cyborgs than it does to humans as well, which is monumentally stupid. If you have a security bot trying to harmbaton a xeno while the xeno fights back with harm intent, the xeno would still win. The only reason xenos have that ability to stun cyborgs is due to cyborgs getting a powerful lasergun if science unlocks their combat modules—the solution to that should've been to tone down the cyborg combat laser, not to give xenos a Vulcan nerve-pinch.

  2. I could see this idea working to a limited degree: as it stands, permabrig tends to be treated as a form of extended death row—it's not a matter of "if" a permabrig prisoner escapes, it's a matter of "when", and security tends to treat them like that. A 'prisoner' role who has no malevolent intent towards the crew but is still in custody would encourage officers to be less spiteful towards everyone in perma.

    That said, there's a lot that would need to change with how perma exists before the prisoner role would make sense:

    • This may sound strange, but roundstart prisoners would need permission to help their inmates escape and to potentially undermine security if they get the chance. Their role shouldn't be restricted to snitching on imprisoned EoCs.
    • Permabrig would need to be expanded and sensibly-built.
      • Firstly, permabrig itself would need to be relocated entirely so that escaping it takes actual preparation. At present, a prisoner in permabrig with no gear, no outside help, no incompetent sec to loot, and no preparation can still break out just using the stuff inside the permabrig itself. Basically the process is to use the permabrig stools to shatter a window, use the window debris to break some other things inside perma and eventually a prisoner can accumulate enough gear to make a spear to break through the airlocks without electrifying themselves on the window grilles. This is to say nothing of how laughably easy it is to break into perma from space and get the perma detainees safely into maintenance without needing to offer them any internals or EVA gear of their own. If EVA is somehow too much effort, someone from the outside need only falsewall or thermite their way into the execution wing. At present, the only way to keep someone in perma is if they want to be in perma.
      • The brig does not have enough starting equipment to support any more than 5 perma detainees—and even that is pushing it. A high pop traitor round can have as many as fifteen traitors, and yet the brig only has enough uniforms and space to properly put 5 people in perma. Permanent sentences can also be done using the gulag (very risky to put any more than 3 people into permanent labor, since the gulag is designed so that officers have to exit the shuttle in single-file where the prisoners can set up a choke point on the other end), or exile (all it takes is 2 prisoners and a surgery kit and they can remove their exile implants. Gateway explorers will also help exile prisoners for free because sEcUrItY bAd.)

    During a round of traitors, security will start out in a position where they don't have enough space or equipment to manage any more than 5 detainees, and giving them perma prisoners to manage right from the offset would further reduce that number. If these issues were fixed, then I would be supportive of a dedicated 'prisoner' role.

    • Like 1
  3. While the staff seem to have come to a consensus already, I wish security had an easier time leaving/entering from space.

    As HoS I've frequently resorted to turning the labor shuttle dock into an improvised entry/exit point by sending the shuttle away and unbolting the airlocks. I'm not sure I see the harm in giving security a more formal cycling airlock in that same location. The airlock wouldn't need to be accessible to all of sec (if anything, it would be a liability if anyone with a stolen sec ID could enter there) but it should at least be there for convenience, even if sec has to get expanded access or the help of the AI to use it.

    Addressing the (extremely flippant) arguments that have been brought up:

    • The Pod Pilot is a karma-locked role. Unless this changed recently, it's frowned upon for a player to take over pod pilot duties if they haven't unlocked that role through karma. If we're claiming that a security pod pilot should always be available, then the role should not be karma-locked.
      • The security pod itself is also ridiculously vulnerable to being outmaneuvered and destroyed, but that's a discussion for another thread.
    • The external access airlocks above the security pod are not accessible by security officers—not even the HoS. Security can't even ask the AI to operate those particular airlocks since those airlocks have no local cameras.
      • There's also the problem that a player needs to break through a reinforced wall before they can even reach the button to open that airlock's interior doors, so it's not like EVA access is going to help with that.
    • "But Antags need the head-start." I do agree... however, I think the difficulty of getting officers into the armory hardsuits in the first place already grants enough of a head-start. Even if security gets an actually convenient way to enter/exit the station from the brig (such as using the door remote to force open the gulag shuttle dock), escaping into space with EVA gear still remains a viable getaway tactic. It just shortens the head-start to maybe 5-15 minutes rather than the 15-20 minutes it takes to get the average HoP to grant extra access.
  4. 4 hours ago, Frank said:

    I tend to play some sec, and my main problem with cult is the consequences of losing a fight against them. If you get fucked over by any other antag (except wizard at times) there is always a chance that someone will find you and revive. If you get caught by cultists, you get sharded never to return. While you're expected to go easy on subverted personell, they can remove your identity completely and then use you against security as a construct. While the cult can simply make up for losses by converting some more crew, there is no way to recover officers that got sharded. You gotta make up for the losses by either calling ERT or do manifest hiring.

    Yes. This is something that makes the cult particularly threatening in a way that other antag types aren't at present. Overall I suppose the game mode isn't awful, but the major problem is that the cult has a way of permanently removing players from that round's security. As HoS I've tried making up for the losses by demanding that deconverted cultists join security—particularly the more belligerent or violent cultists, or cultists directly responsible for soul-sharding—but this rarely works. I think the problem is that people are IC/OOC obliged to support the cult when they've been sharded or converted, but when you ask them to make up for any of the damage they inflicted after being deculted they're allowed to just fold their arms and do nothing.

     

    On 6/2/2021 at 2:19 PM, SabreML said:

    Might add some more later, but here's some of the stuff from my list:

     

    Too strong:

    • Flagellant Robes.
    • Mirror shields.
    • Wraiths vs the AI.
    • Cult ascension threshold. (Cultists usually get halos way too late)

    Might need tweaking:

    • Non-sharpened cult blade damage.
    • Stun spell mute duration.
    • Cult ghosts from manifest runes.
    • Constructs (Once they've died, the player is permanently out of the round).
    • Observer participation in the round.
    • Wraits after they've killed the AI. (Nothing to do, really)
    • Soulstone shades. (Currently useless, maybe could return to the soulstone if they die)

    Too weak:

    • Cultist summoning. (Very easy to counter if you're paying attention)
    • Nar'sie rune. (Can be denied with a single cleaning grenade, or space cleaner bottle)
    • Holy soulstones. (Maybe let the chaplain bless runed metal for a construct shell)
    • Blood spear. (Cool as it is, it's overshadowed by other items)

    With regards to Flagellant Robes, this will be a very controversial suggestion with impacts outside of the cult, but I'd propose that pulling or dragging a person should limit their maximum movement speed to default running. This would apply to speed-boosts from Flagellant Robes, and from chemistry or adrenals. There have previous proposals to force people to walking speed while pulling (which were shot down because nobody likes walking speed) but I think limiting someone's maximum movement speed to default running speed while pulling another person would be a good way to let the flagellant robes (and other speed boosts that antags are so fond of) stay useful while getting rid of their worst aspects. The problem I understand with flagellant robes—and all speed boosts for antags—is that they let a cultist player pick apart much larger groups of players without any planning or any serious danger. Simply run up, stun a member of the group, and pull them away at high speed with the confidence that the rest of the players are too slow to follow. By forcing a default maximum movement speed while pulling, this means that abductions are still possible so long as the person pulling has a way to throw off pursuers (bananas, soap, lube, even just shooting a taser behind you as you run, they'll all work fine). Speed boosts will still be good for hit-and-run attacks or making speedy getaways, but a player isn't allowed to also capture and kill other characters while simultaneously escaping danger with a speed boost. 

    Mirror Shield. If it actually works as-described, I don't think it's too bad. 50% block is a bit gross since it's so unpredictable, but that's the same block chance as the telescopic shield: sometimes it'll turn you into an unkillable terminator by letting you block 5 hits in a row or sometimes it'll fail to block a single hit and you'll curse yourself for bothering to carry it. Holding one is extremely obvious and, unlike other types of shields, the mirrorshield can be outright destroyed if certain weapons are used on it. RNG never feels good in a game that's already so unpredictable, but that's something about shields in general. One change I'd suggest is that the illusory copy shouldn't be usable as a meat shield. In cramped spaces the illusion can force you to break off a chase simply because it gets in the way.

    For Wraiths and the AI I think this is just a matter of the players being too lazy to adapt to an emerging meta-tactic, rather than an actual case of something being too powerful to counter. I had a recent round where I suggested that the chaplain spray holy water around the AI core once a cult was discovered. The chaplain did it. At the end of the round, the AI player said that a wraith tried to jaunt in, but was forced to materialize in a bad spot due to the holywater and the core turrets promptly dunked it. To make a comparison to another meta case: it was common practice for Nuke Ops to snipe the AI, so in response it became common practice for the AI to move its core into the upload whenever Nukies were discovered. If it's common practice for the cult to rush the AI using wraiths, I think it should just become common practice for the crew to spray holywater around the AI core to protect it from wraiths when a cult is discovered. This is a problem outside of cult, too, but just not used as frequently: a single emagged maint drone can easily assassinate the AI without much of a warning. By comparison, wraiths assassinating the AI doesn't seem like a huge problem because there's a straightforward in-game method of preventing it. 

    Cult Ascension Threshold. I think it's less a matter of the halo appearing too late and more a matter that the crew don't react at all. You'll get a few "Unga" players who quickly arm up and start slipping into the survival-horror mentality when the cult halos show up (which by that point, is an appropriate mindset to have). Yet most players tend to react like this, when the cult swarms their department. Simply put, nobody outside of security has all that much interest in stopping a cult. It's not so much that the pentagram halo appears too late and more that nobody cares when they do appear.

    Stun spell mute duration. I'm not completely clear on how it works these days, but here's my two cents. Lone players should be very vulnerable to the cult. In fact, I think lone players should be vulnerable to most antag types as it is. What I think makes this spell feel too strong is when its paired with something like the flagellant robes and shadow shackles: in those cases it means the cultists need extremely little preparation or patience aside from having an escape route planned out.

    If we really wanted to 'tweak' this, I might suggest making the full mute shorter and instead let the victim speak with cult-slurring for longer (so instead of 6 seconds of mute and 20 seconds of cult-slur, it could be 3 seconds of true mute and 23 seconds of cult slurring.) This would still give newer cultists a highly forgiving window of time to cuff+convert or cuff+remove headset+convert a target without revealing their own identity, but it'll give the victim an actual chance to alert the crew that something is up—even if they can't state their location or the name of their attacker. I think the problem is also compounded by Shadow Shackles which inflict a frankly egregious 12 seconds of mute when they're applied. If someone really wants a cult conversion to go stealthily, they should have to supplement it with on-station materials to pull it off: Such as opening with the stun spell, removing the headset first, then using a stunprod to hold them still for the cuffs, or open with the stun spell, apply perfluorodecalin to prolong the mute duration, then cuffs+headset removal. Heck, the EMP spell would also have a use here in disabling headsets if a cultist wants to make sure the victim absolutely can't get the word out. Having a process where a cultist can stun, mute, and restrain a victim with no equipment preparation (aside from an empower rune) seems a little too forgiving.

    • Like 2
  5. This post is a bit older, but CMD is a discussion point that comes up on a regular basis so I'll weigh in.

    Riddle me this: if we do implement Clone Memory Disorder, exactly how much is the cloned character meant to forget? Everything about their killer in specific? Everything from the moment they started the shift? (A little too broad for my tastes, but at least it's something that can be consistent). If security (as I often do) sits down and asks, "What's the last thing you remember before waking up in the cloner?" exactly how far back is the cloned victim's memory supposed to be blank? We need a consistent line to be drawn where a cloned character's memory is lost, and what they're allowed to remember. If the rule ends up saying "cloned murder victims aren't allowed to say anything that would give security a hint as to the killer" that will open a whole new can of worms.

    The closest thing I can relate to as a 'successful' implementation of dividing IC/OOC knowledge is regarding the cult, as ex-cultists are supposed to forget anything relating to the cult's plans or activities if they're deconverted successfully. That said, cult rounds are still subject to a bizarre and blurred line if you ask an ex-cultist "What's the last thing you remember before ending up here?"

    On the topic of reworking assassination into assassination-but-not-really: I do not support this. Roles like 'traitor', 'changeling', and 'vampire' are called 'Antagonists' because they're supposed to cause trouble for the crew. Players are meant to be opposed to antagonists. We already have a strange phenomena where certain parts of the community have a sort of apathy or even sympathy towards antags, and I personally don't think it's going to help if that apathy is further encouraged by removing the risk of death from assassination objectives.

    This is particularly noteworthy with vampires already: certain players who I won't name here have developed an unofficial etiquette where it's apparently polite to not scream or draw attention when a vampire is sucking your character's blood, and the vampire in turn is expected to reciprocate by either leaving their victims at medbay or letting their victims go after taking a non-fatal quantity of blood.

    It's an attitude that has persisted for some time: looking up various keywords like 'give vampires free blood',  or just 'give blood', in the server discord will turn up a significant number of conversations on the matter. Most of the debates I've found about vampires and free blood are fairly recent—2020 and 2021, but I'll give my assurances that this 'etiquette' has been entrenched for much longer than that.

    If we enforced CMD, I believe this would further encourage a sort of indifference and apathy that parts of the community have towards antags. I think this particular issue is quite important to me, because I had an IC argument with a regular over whether the "vampire victim etiquette" made sense, and that player chose to drag the argument into OOC. Who knows, maybe I'm the one who's wrong.

    I don't want to be entirely critical without offering something constructive, so here's my thought: nobody likes being removed from the round. However, I think antags should still have objectives that involve seriously, significantly inconveniencing other players or else that'll remove any actual conflict between antags and non-antags. I'd like to see more use of objectives like 'maroon' ("Ensure <XYZ> crewmember does not leave on the escape shuttle or escape pod") or other objectives that can be considered "harmful" without necessarily involving the removal of other players—I seem to recall seeing an admin test a "Sabotage" objective that went along the lines of "Disrupt <XYZ> department and prevent them from getting anything done" but I'm not sure if that was just a custom goal or if there was ever any plan to implement it on a larger scale. BYOND always seems to surprise me with what it can or can't do, so I don't know how feasible it would be to implement an objective like that.

    TL;DR: Present a plausible method to address the unofficial "correct and polite etiquette for being murdered" that already ruins the vampire gamemode—assure me that CMD will not generalize this attitude through the traitor and changeling gamemodes, and in return I'll support re-introducing CMD.

  6. So, disclaimer: my understanding of contractor isn't that solid. I don't know how much potential bonus TC a contractor can earn, or how much TC is awarded per successful capture. I'll operate on the premise that Spark is being literal with the "almost 40+ TC" comment, but anyone is free to correct me if I'm wrong.

     

    I think the big problem here is that the two roles aren't designed to be combined: Contractors are supposed to have high TC, but their weakness is that they're strongly discouraged from going loud and lethal. For hijackers, they're given freedom to go for maximum lethality, but their weakness is supposed to be the fact that their TC pool is limited (as in, the default traitor budget of 20tcs normally doesn't allow a hijacker to get sleeping carp, a chainsaw/double-esword, and an adrenal implant all at once, whereas Contractors can feasibly afford all that gear if they complete enough contracts).

    Personally, I think the problem of "Hijackers getting stronger traitor gear than they're expected to" won't be solved by making Contractor and Hijacker mutually exclusive. I've seen numerous rounds where a Hijacker got hold of some ludicrously powerful combination of expensive traitor gear just due to Surplus crates or Super-Surplus crates. If anything, I'm less concerned by the idea of Hijackers breaking their 'normal' TC budget through becoming a contractor, because at least a contractor needs to make several moves while filling up the contracts, throughout which they might get caught before they can afford whatever unstoppable gear combo they're angling for. and the crew can anticipate what's about to happen if word gets around that a Contractor has completed several contracts, rather than just a surprise Carpsaw+adrenals hijacker jumping out and butchering sec without any advance warning.

    Basically, what I'm saying is that I think the problem is less specific than "Contractor+Hijack makes for miserable rounds" and is part of a larger issue, that "Hijackers allowed to go over the 20TC budget will make the round miserable."

    If we want to take another step back, we could say that the "20TC budget" problem is just a small part of the even larger problem, that "People just don't like having their entire round ended by hijackers." Because let's be honest, there's plenty of low-effort methods of murdering the entire station without ever touching a TC-related item: one hijacker scientist can destroy the entirety of the station by just hiding TTV bombs or remote chemistry grenades everywhere and setting them off at once.

    Since I don't think we can really cut at the root of the problem without removing some of that unpredictability and randomness that makes SS13 so appealing in the first place, I'd suggest making hijack a rarer objective overall: similar to how traitor-AIs have become so rare. That could leave the ridiculous murder sprees that I know some of the community looks forward to, but also ensure that the majority of traitor rounds don't inevitably get derailed by a hijacking attempt.

    • Like 1
    • Plasmamen and Vox being inherently spaceproof.
    • Vox raiders, the gamemode.
    • Mutiny, the gamemode.
    • Shadowling enthrallment being entirely undetectable and irreversible.
    • Shadowling thralls having their own glare ability with a lengthy stun duration.
    • Changelings having a paralysis sting and needing to use proboscis absorption to get genomes.
    • Gamma armory was attached to the station by default (albeit heavily fortified) so the crew could theoretically hack their way in and loot it outside of a Code Gamma situation.
    • The old Bay chemistry system, emphasizing fictional chemicals like Tricordrazine.
    • Xenobiology before the slime management console turned it into a snorefest.
    • Not being able to get infinite liquid plasma from the chemical dispensers, therefore making xenobio actually relevant since certain slime species could be used as an alternate source of plasma and plasteel.
    • Malfunctioning AI being its own gamemode.
    • The AI core being located where the gravity generator is located now.
    • The numerous different AI satellite layouts that were used before we settled on the current one.
    • Grenade launchers in the security armory
    • The Nuke Ops getting Syndicate softsuits and Cr-20's by default instead of hardsuits and bulldog shotguns.
    • Characters having a chance of getting appendicitis at random, requiring surgery.
    • Mindshield implants being "Loyalty Implants" that mandated absolute loyalty to NanoTrasen.
    • Donuts used to be significantly more effective at healing.
    • Being able to fax CentComm from any fax machine as any head of command.
    • Giant Spider NPCs being able to kill with a single bite due to how venom worked.
    • Being able to hide the nuke disk inside of a character's chest cavity using surgery.
    On 7/31/2020 at 11:10 AM, PacifistDalek said:

    I cant remember if this was paradise or yogstation, but peacekeeper Borgs

     

    HUMAN HARM

    Yes, we did have those for a short period of time.

  7.  

    Spoiler

    An attempt at storyboarding, based on a conversation between Kirimii and Rick Martini. I'm still not entirely satisfied that I did a good job on this, but this project became sort of a bottleneck since I, 1.) Didn't want to post my next batch of images without this, but 2.) I wanted to wait until I was "completely satisfied" with the work. It is what it is.

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    Wanted to try a couple of different perspectives. Basically I wanted to have one sketch of Cecilia at a high angle and another from a low angle. My idea was to make it look like she was being reflected in something like a pond or a window, but I'm not quite sure I got the angle right for that.

     

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    It turns out you can gank one of the deadliest megafauna in the game by just swarming it with killer tomatoes.

     

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    I admit I've sort of shelved Kirsten as a character (as it so happens, she shares a name with a server regular who's been around for longer so I prefer to avoid confusion), though I still like her design.

    Edit: Since this, I've elected to compromise with a name change.

     

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    During a particularly slow round, the librarian swapped out the 'Space Law' book in the brig lobby with a satirically awful Star Wars fanfiction that had been retitled as 'Space Law'. Again, it was a very dull shift up to that point so everyone in security had a good laugh about it.

     

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    Slaughterdemon.

     

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    Laughterdemon.

     

    I sort of messed up with the blood splash pattern. Initially I'd drawn the bright-red puddle, but then added the darker tone which I thought looked a bit more convincingly like blood splatters, but I couldn't be bothered to blend the two together.

     

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    Something interesting I've noticed is that antag roles and security both manage to feel like an uphill battle to the person playing them. I think it's because as an antag, the player only needs to consider success or failure in terms of their own individual experience while players in security tend to view 'success' and 'failure' as something that's measured across the entire department and shift.

     

    And some miscellaneous tabletop stuff:

    Spoiler

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    ElsuAWp.png?1Unfortunately I haven't been able to get another Shadowrun session going in several months, despite my best efforts. While I don't know if my group is ever getting together again for another session, I think I'll get a little more use out of the character designs at least.

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    A couple of DnD characters I sketched as requests from random internet strangers on r/characterdrawing. Who knows, if I keep practicing maybe I could do this sort of thing for money some day.

     

     

    • Like 9
    • stunbaton 1
  8. The cargo drop pod tablet is a cool idea. There’s already the null crate system for traitors in cargo to try for extra gear, but I’ve noticed that with how crowded the station gets, it’s essentially impossible to pull off discretely—placing illicit orders is difficult enough since the QM, AI, HoP and other cargo techs can all see what orders are being queued and by who, and then of course actually retrieving a null crate from cargo when there’s so many other cargo techs around is a crapshoot at best.

    The supermatter sliver is an interesting idea. Permadeath is always a brutal business, but it’s already available to the chaplain, traitor chefs, and can be done through a few more complex means (splashing acid on a brain as a chemist or scientist, as one example). It’s also worth pointing out that the cult has a functionally similar ability with soul shards, which come in plentiful supply, and if a sec player dies to a cultist it’s almost a guarantee they’ll be soul sharded.

    If I was going to suggest anything, I’d recommend that disintegrating someone with an SM shard should require them to be dead or subdued for a lengthy period of time. For instance, it shouldn’t be possible to casually stun prod someone in public then have them disintegrated before anyone can even bother to type out “help sec”.

  9. I admit, this prompted me to look up how MIG welding works. I never realized how inaccurate SS13's depiction of welding was until now.

    On 6/20/2020 at 3:02 PM, ImmortalRedshirt said:

    So please, if you have feedback, I want it.

     Alright, I'm responding specifically because you solicited advice here.

    On 6/20/2020 at 3:02 PM, ImmortalRedshirt said:

    Also, I do not have a pen, I do not have better paper. Just letting you all know.

    If you do want to get better, my very first piece of advice would be to figure out a way to fix this. I know with social distancing rules it definitely doesn't make sense to pick up a sketchpad at this particular moment, but whenever you're comfortable, the way to become better is to just have a sketchbook out and to be working on it.

    I'm definitely not an elitist about art materials, and I think most artists aren't: I use standard school pencils for most of my sketching. That said, I still recommend against lined paper and newsprint paper as they're expressly made to be cheap and thin. It's not just that the lines are a bit distracting: sheets of paper have an upper limit on how much sketching they can take before the page begins warping, and since lined paper is designed to be thin and cheap it's usually not sturdy enough to hold a detailed pencil drawing without warping the image. Your sketch of this welder is fairly straightforward, yet I can already see the paper beginning to get crinkled. That isn't your fault: that's because lined paper is extremely thin and warps too easily.

    As for becoming "better" in the sense of linework, technique, proportion, etc... the best I can recommend is practice. There's no substitute for that. Practice sketching everywhere, all the time. Practice during short breaks, practice when you're bored, practice when you're procrastinating from more important work. I could try to provide pointers on style or technique, but practice is really the way all of that stuff develops in the first place.

    • Like 3
  10. On 2/1/2020 at 8:54 AM, Darkmight9 said:

    Personally if I ever get a chance to play/GM a shadowrun game it'll be with 4th edition because of how much of a mess 5th is from what I've heard.

    I've never tried 4th edition, so I can't provide any sort of expert opinion there. That said, I'd say SR 5e's rules are written and organized poorly in the book, but make sense when they're put into practice. Between D&D and SR, it felt like Shadowrun's rules and character creation were thought-through a little better than D&D. One of my pet peeves with D&D 5e is that the races all follow Star Trek logic, in which the full gamut of dwarves, elves, etc. can be described as, "Just like humans, except considerably better in numerous ways with no real tradeoffs compared to humans" whereas Shadowrun's metatype system balances typically 'superior-than-human' fantasy species by forcing players to compromise on starting resources or attributes in order to select a fantasy species. There's also things like Shadowrun's authors have put a lot more time and consideration into how magic has influenced the development of their world from a lore perspective, while D&D just has world-breaking magic lying around that apparently nobody really thinks about. That said, it took me about a solid year of deciphering SR5e's rulebook before I finally understood enough to properly GM it, while in comparison I had D&D 5e figured out in about a week, so I might just be falling into a Sunken Cost fallacy.

     

     

    I hope everyone's staying safe and well-supplied these days. I actually ran out of sketch paper due to social isolation--while that was disappointing at first, I think you'll agree it was a net positive.

    You'll see what I mean.

     

    EF6cwLH.jpg?1

    Just a practice picture.  By this point I don't feel like I'm uploading a 'full' set of pictures unless at least one of them features Cecilia looking annoyed.

    BAWwrrP.jpg?1

    Swarmers are annoying.

    Spoiler

    This one was a bit of a challenge. I wanted the swarmer to occupy a large part of the page but also wanted to show Sec in pursuit without losing detail from either. Basically, the challenge here is that Cecilia takes up less space on the page than the swarmer, but I wanted to give the viewer the idea that she's larger than the swarmer, and only takes up less space due to depth.

    XH2YnXz.jpg?1

    Hostile wildlife.

     

    0IkeVfA.png

    As I mentioned earlier, running out of paper to sketch on prompted me to dust off a tablet I'd left neglected for some time. I'd given tablet sketching a try quite a few years ago but I think I let myself get discouraged from it too easily. This first sheet just includes various SS13-related doodles that I made to get used to the tablet.

    NhEmHBw.png?1

    A picture of Cecilia I made using ArtRage, a program intended to emulate markers and paints. I felt like I had to fight the software every step of the way, though I'm impressed by how the image looks convincingly like a crappy paint-and-markers art on canvas rather than something made using a program.

    LLHSOUA.png?1

    "Does SoP say I can't use my desk as a footrest? No. No it doesn't."

    I give IAA a try whenever I want to play, but don't feel like I'm in the right headspace to try a 'proper' HoS round.  I think the reason a lot of players have difficulty with IAA is that they approach it with no prior experience in security, and see their relationship to the security department as one based on conflict rather than cooperation. To get security to do anything as IAA, you need to have mutual respect. To have security respect your opinion as IAA, you need to know when it's practical to emphasize SoP and when it's not. The job is much more about earning security's trust that you've got common ground with them rather than trying to get officers fired for incompetence or reduce prison timers.

    4EIbDRV.png?1

    BspdhJP.png

    Epic fight music of your choice goes here

    When the Nuke Ops get whittled down to their last squad member, don't get cocky. There's usually plenty of good reasons why that last man standing outlived all their squadmates, such as being an unstunnable sith lord with a shielded hardsuit who's been on a meth-fueled rampage since reaching the station.

    Something about the position of the Nukie's right arm is bothering me. I might have to fix that later.

     

    yC23McO.png

    nA5XIJv.png

    Command roles are not suitable for players with an inferiority complex or an easily-bruised sense of pride. There are plenty of AI players who seem to relish making new Command staff go utterly berserk over relatively minor slights or small acts of insubordination. Spark 5.5 has made it into an art form.

    N6PDvgn.png

    This was meant to help setup the 'crazy captain' exchange above, though I felt having the context-less version there helped set up the joke better than leading with a sketch that 'gave away' the joke so to speak.

    I wanted to add dialogue here, but I think it would've taken away from the picture: this is the "I demand to speak to your manager" face, the "I'll get what I want if I just get angry enough" face, adding text would really just be reduntant.

     

    lFtmHs1.png?1

    Cecilia's "I'm listening respectfully, but I still think your opinion is dumb" face.

     

    Like I said, I think giving the tablet a try was a net positive overall. Don't get me wrong, I was happy where I was before, but this feels like a whole new level. 

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  11. On 3/22/2020 at 10:32 AM, Kinnikonnie said:

    I think the alert system should be changed personally. Because right now blue is "command members not ready to swipe yet".

    Blue should be threats are known but contained/not chaotic yet. That way security gets extra rights without starting to enforce annoying things and just tasering you for standing in the wrong spot.

     

    Red should be that the threat has significantly increased and security is in desperate need to get some help. Like things getting bombed, security officers going down and not-revivable.

     

    On 3/22/2020 at 7:37 PM, Regular Joe said:

    Personally I’d think there could, maybe, be one more alert level, to distinct confirmed and expected lethal action from confirmed threat with a possibility of escalating to largely lethal threat. Green blue red black, or so. There’s the difference of agents and changelings and some maddened Henk loose, as both kind of threats are capable to lethal, but the latter is using it on large; the needed action against those, and the need of the crew to take cover, differs too. Gamma’s there but the armory is a sec buff, I’m thinking of just enabling more strict SOP for largely dangerous situations by having a more restricting code available that is not activated so often as red is. RP and more tools for command to handle the crew. But that’s just a thought, as the present system flows quite okay and if situations in which forcing the red SOP seems usable happens, command can do that on will.

    I strongly agree here. 

    As it is, Code Blue for 'suspected threats' barely, if ever, gets any use. If officers find a husked corpse with a missing ID in a locker, the response isn't "Oh, maybe this is a murder victim, maybe just a freak accident, Code Blue while we investigate," instead the sensible thing is to conclude "this person was murdered and looted, probably by a changeling. Code Red." Frequently even if I, as the HoS, only get partial reports and feel the alert should only be set to 'Blue' while the detective and security finish investigating, frequently the rest of command will go over my head and swipe for Red regardless of whether the threat has been properly confirmed or not. 

    I'm not sure about the 'genesis' of the Code Blue/Code Red system, but I recall on older code builds, Code Blue was activated automatically about 5-10 minutes into the round, along with a small CC report that IC'ly listed all of the possible EoC types--this was primarily a RP facilitator when ignorance about antag types was enforced, just so the Captain could eventually announce "Yes, these are traitors" or "Yes, these are changelings" rather than the entire server being forced to feign incredulity for the entirety of the round. Now that things tend to stick at Code Green rather than escalating automatically to Blue, I find Blue barely ever gets used for it's intended role. Even then, the window of time between Security getting enough evidence to 'suspect' a threat and then calling for red because the evidence inevitably leads to a confirmation is extremely slim, so Code Blue is really going to waste as it's currently implemented.

    The value judgement between Blue and Red should be a judgement that command makes between security abuse versus antag activity, something like this:

    1. The overall goal for Nanotrasen is to maximize the station's efficiency.
    2. EoC activity and capital crimes reduce efficiency, as they generally threaten the crew.
    3. However, giving Security too much power ALSO reduces efficiency, as officers will waste the crew's valuable time by accosting them for random searches and department sweeps, sometimes detain crew over false positives or misapplied charges, and too much security meddling distracts the other departments from doing their job.

    Therefore, I suggest Code Blue should be for situations where EoCs are confirmed, but the inconvenience posed by EoC activity is still lesser than the inconvenience that would be caused by letting Security off the leash. Code Red should be for when the EoC activity has escalated to a point where the EoCs pose greater inconvenience than allowing Security to go full shitsec, or for a crisis like blob or xenos.

     

    Proposed Code Blue Changes

    I'd argue that blue should be for cases where evidence is confirmed that EoCs or capital crimes are being committed and investigated, but security is still expected to adhere to SoP and Space Law. The SoP permissions for blue are generally fine for this, but a slight edit to the armoury permissions: armoury gear should only be authorized for specific, singular situations, and with the expectation that officers will immediately return any checked out armory gear once the specific situation is resolved. The only time a shotgun or lasergun should leave the armory is if the HoS can, specifically, describe who or what the shotgun or laser is going to be fired at, after which point the shotgun or lasergun must be returned to the armory if it's still Code Blue. Officers should not be allowed to passively patrol with lethals during Code Blue or Code Green. Use of lethal force on a crewmember during Code Blue should prompt an investigation by IAA, possibly resulting in the demotion of the officer if it was determined that nonlethal force would have been sufficient, or the demotion of the HoS if they authorized lethal force for a situation that could have been clearly resolved by nonlethal force--especially so if the misuse of lethal force results in a fatality. Note that EoCs who demonstrate clear immunity to nonlethal force are, by definition, not definable as a threat that can be resolved with nonlethal force. This last part sounds so obnoxiously obvious but I've had players argue that sec should just keep pointlessly using nonlethals on a traitor who's going crazy with anti-stun stimulants or 500u of meth in patches while sprinting around maint stabbing officers with an esword, so I'm typing it down for posterity's sake.

    From the perspective of a Security main, tightening up SOP here will be a net positive: At present, distributing any lethals during Code Blue generally means the officers greedily squirrel their weapons away until they either get killed or jump into cryo without returning the weapon, making it very difficult to get everyone armed when an actual Code Red crisis occurs later and it turns out all of the equipment lent out during Code Blue is now missing.

     

    Proposed Code Red Changes

    Code Red should not be an automatic response to discovering EoCs. Instead, it should be reserved for situations where the overall safety and integrity of the station are at stake: Things like massive bombing sprees, vampires on a killing spree, or any infiltration antag who got enough meth patches to be basically immune to stun weapons. These are threats where security has a reasonable chance of failing even if they devote their full attention to confronting the threat, and therefore need permission to treat everything else as periphery until the threat is dealt with. Shadowlings, major biohazard infestations, or vamps/lings/traitors who either murder aggressively or render vast areas of the station inaccessible by bombing, and conditionally cultists due to the risk of a major summoning or they're using teleportation runes to evade nonlethal capture.

    On change I'd like to see in Code Red SoP is that crew should be obliged to carry and present their ID cards to security upon request, and failure to do so may result in detainment as it qualifies for "suspicious behaviour." If the crewmember has a plausible excuse for not having their ID (basically, if it was stolen. "I lost my ID somewhere" is a dumb excuse and shouldn't be accepted at face value,) then security may escort said individual immediately to the HoP in order to receive a replacement. I haven't seen anyone dispute this when it gets brought up in-game, but for the sake of posterity I'll point out it's not actually written down anywhere in SoP when it probably should be.

    During Code Red, officers do receive access to lethal armory gear, but there should be stipulations about how to use lethal equipment during a Code Red situation. Obvious threats like xenos and nukies don't really need a lot of instructions, but there need to be some rules if Code Red is used for a more murky situation like an extremely robust hijack traitor

    During Code Red, officers may use lethal force in self-defence (particularly if there is an attempt made to steal an officer's weaponry), or to confront an individual guilty of a crime at Exceptional severity or higher (The only crimes at 'Exceptional' severity are Murder, Manslaughter, Grand Sabotage, and Grand Theft, so repeatedly looting the hand teleporter on Red Alert as a joke might not end well). Officers should always attempt to use nonlethal force when resolving crimes of Major severity, but a crewman guilty of a Major crime who evades nonlethal detainment must either surrender willingly or, if they are worried about confronting security, surrender themselves to a member of command, at which point they will be transferred into security's custody. If a crewman commits a major crime on Code Red, evades nonlethal detainment, and refuses to surrender to custody, security should be permitted to use lethal force. Note that certainty is important here: if an officer's poor judgement or hubris leads to lethal force being used on an innocent, the offending officer should be demoted and charged with either aggravated assault, manslaughter, or murder. Medium crimes should always warrant nonlethal force. Repeated, consecutive Medium crimes during a Code Red situation may result in prolonged, conditional detainment until the Code Red alert is cleared. Minor crimes during Code Red should be noted in the crewmember's record, but security should refrain from prosecuting minor crimes during Code Red until the alert level is reduced to Blue or Green. Certain minor crimes may have their severity escalated based on context, especially if the crimes directly impede the crew's attempts to confront whatever crisis warranted Code Red. (e.g. A doctor hoarding surgical equipment and hiding it away from the wards on Code Green counts as petty theft; doing this during a Shadowling crisis could be charged as a major crime, or even as aiding and abetting the Shadowling if the crewmember demonstrates enough pettiness. A clown slipping officers trying to confront a blob situation should be thrown in a cell until the blob is dealt with, etc.)

    The intention here is to drastically reduce the number of distractions that security is forced to deal with during a crisis situation. While adherence to SoP is important for curbing shitcurity during calmer moments, it's a liability when dealing with a crisis. So for instance if I as a non-antag, slip and kidnap a shotgun-toting officer on Code Red, then try to use methpatches to make myself flashbang immune as a non-antag, well... firstly, I'd expect to be straight up banned since that's basically self-antagging, but otherwise if the admins are busy then security should be able to treat self-antagging players on Code Red as if the offending party were actual antags. Again, the intent here is that Code Red should be reserved only for exceptionally dangerous situations when security needs to work without distractions to deal with a primary threat. Code Red should not be the immediate go-to button for when any EoCs are identified at all, but only for situations where Security is at risk of losing control of the station.

     

    Wrapping Up

    Currently, the only appreciable difference between Code Blue and Code Red SoP is that Code Red permits officers to detain without warning (and even then, only when evidence connects the detainee to a crime), and officers can forcefully escort crew back to their departments (I have never seen this enforced without causing major griping about shitcurity from the crew). The HoS can technically authorize lethals on blue (generally there needs to be a good reason for it, but the same judgement applies when requesting Code Red). I argue that making the alert levels more varied gives Command more precision in controlling what Security is allowed to bring to bear.

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  12. I don't mind the nicotine addictions to an extent--before this change, cigarettes were a minor buff to someone's abilities, so at least this is somewhat more sensible that someone who's huffing cigarettes won't be in very good shape compared to someone who doesn't smoke. That said, I agree with what's said here that the withdrawal and addiction thresholds are ridiculous, especially taken in direct regard to each other. It's stupid to experience nicotine withdrawal to the point of having a paralysis-inducing migraine while actively indulging the addiction by smoking. There's no way to sustain or keep up with a nicotine addiction as it is, it's basically just a near-immediate penalty that sticks with a character for several minutes after the cigarette runs out.

    Also, I'd like to see nicotine addiction symptoms changed, if possible. Sneezing and twitching don't really make that much sense, though I'd be happy if it were replaced with something like involuntary coughing.

    • Like 1
  13. PSA 2: Weapons on Patrol

    eGqXgD4.jpg?2

    DWMx2XA.jpg?2

    The annoying thing is that the Sec players who need this advice the most are the ones least likely to listen to this advice: Running around with your weapons unholstered makes you considerably more vulnerable and liable to be attacked than if you're patrolling with holstered weapons.

    "But Machofish, having my weapon holstered just means I have to click more buttons when I see a threat! That split-second could be a life-or-death matter!"

    And yes, that is a strong argument. Unfortunately, SS13 logic causes it to be false. Wins often go to wheoever has the drop on their opponent, and an officer with their weapons out without knowing specifically who they're trying to shoot/baton means that anyone hoping to take the officer down gets that much more bang for their buck with their opening move, since something as simple as an un-telegraphed melee disarm can cause an officer to lose their stun weapons and usually their life as a result.

    From personal experience, most of the crimes stopped by security occur when security responds to a third-party being attacked, not by an officer being attacked on their own and somehow fighting back: If you identify a threat, it's easy enough to backpedal while drawing your weapon of choice, then move in. Alternatively, if you're responding to a distress call, only draw your weapon only once you get close to a department or station area that the distress call came from, to minimize the chance of losing your gear to butterfingers before you even arrive at the scene.

     

    And now for something completely different:

    mkKjPAT.png

    EUWtG8R.jpg?2

    I'd explain more, but I genuinely don't remember the context.

    Perhaps that's for the best.

     

    And some more sketches from GM'ing Shadowrun:

     

    SocuVAD.jpg?2

    "Lone Star" is one of the "Public Security Companies" in the Shadowrun universe: Imagine SS13's security, just with deadlier equipment, no admin oversight and no incentives to follow their own laws.

    HYA5rms.jpg?1

    Tried redrawing Moody with a 'rounder' face, and I think I'm on to something. Overall, I'm really pleased with how this sketch came out. 

    beotA4R.jpg?1 

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    eZjAQZ1.jpg?1

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    A sample Shadowrunner I sketched/statted while trying to figure out 5e's deeply disorganized rulebook and wrap my head around what a 'cyberpunk' theme even looks like.

    And more NPCs:

    8afd2sA.jpg?1

    The suit here was cribbed from a picture I found on Google Images for "Aztechnology," here. I have no idea who the actual artist was who came up with the design, but they deserve credit.

    Edit: Well, the sketch has mysteriously vanished from my imgur account, so I'm guessing someone took exception to that. Oops.

    UxjFAeI.jpg?1

    Trying to come up with thoughtful image descriptions while sleep-deprived at 1:00am on a Friday night is difficult, so I'll probably be editing the caption text continuously over the next day or so.

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  14. This would be an interesting mid/late round event, I'd be onboard so long as it's implemented as a 'major event' along the vein of terrors, swarmers, blob, xenos, etc.

    I'm pretty sure this idea's been thrown around before. I haven't seen too many major issues regarding vox traders myself but some of the repeated concerns I've heard from server staff include:

    Back when vox had much tighter lore cohesion, vox raiders would often get unusual breaks from vox amongst the crew, regardless of their actions. Eler00 touched on this above. Given the server environment these days, I find only a select few players bother referencing the lore, and our lore is already structured in such a way that it conforms to the gameplay as opposed to vice versa. There aren't as many cases of Vox unreasonably sheltering or giving free breaks to one another, and I think I've seen the "Vox Inviolate" referenced about two or three times across my past two years of playing here, so I think there won't be as many players leveraging it into an excuse to help "their kins." Though I might be severely underestimating the degree to which vox players would willingly toe the line on self-antag rules as soon as the excuse presents itself.

    There's also problems with how the non-vox crew behaved as well. Storytime:

    Spoiler

    Due to varying past experiences with Vox Raiders, their lack of 'crew' status, and the meta understanding that they always had at least one objective that would be unacceptable to command/cc (either "abduct "xyz" crewman" or "steal the nuke/supermatter shard/singularity core/station AI"), sometimes elements of the crew would greet them with lethal force. I'm talking overwhelming validsalad. In one experience as a vox raider quill, I remember the AI appeared to let us board peacefully via one of the solars arrays, only to intentionally wait until we were cycling through the solars airlock, before repeatedly doorslamming the raiding party using the airlock with the intent to kill. The AI had an engineering borg on-hand intentionally pushing the vox over the airlocks to make them less able to escape the doorslamming, and the only reason the entire party didn't die on the spot was that the Captain (also Vox at the time) expressly ordered the AI to cease and provide medical treatment to the thoroughly-robusted raiders. In another match (observing, not playing) the pod pilot encountered the vox raiders in space and -- without being ordered to -- proceeded to murder as many of the raiders as he could by stunning them, cuffing them, ripping their nitrogen tanks off then throwing them into space -- basically killing them and making the bodies so difficult to recover they might as well have been gibbed and removed from the round. A THIRD round I remember involved two of the initial vox raiders getting immediately killed and forcefully turned into cyborgs. Since part of the Vox inviolate (and one of the raiders' objectives) is always "Never leave a teammate behind" the crew were basically doing this just to be shitty and deny the vox their greentext.

    And, this is just me errantly kvetching for a moment, but it didn't help that Central Command seemed to suffer from a crippling case of split-personality disorder whenever they got faxed about Vox traders/raiders: In one raiders round where CC was faxed for orders, CC sent a return fax basically declaring open season on all Shoal-Vox, demanding that all shoal vox be immediately executed and their skipjack destroyed with toxins bombs. During a completely different trader/raiders round, the vox used their hacked AI lawboard on the AI, the subverted AI began using borderline-lethal force to distract the crew (siphoning, shocking doors, turning off Beepsky's safety measures, etc.), and when Sec began using lethal force on the raider vox in retaliation, Central Command sent an announcement threatening to BSA everyone unless they got an appropriate explanation for why the vox had been attacked (Central Command still BSA'd the shuttle seconds after it landed at CC because they declared something along the lines of using the Cyberiad's crew as a scapegoat to avoid political backlash with the Shoal.)

    So yeah, since the crew would receive contradictory messages about how to treat the vox from round-to-round, whenever Shoal Vox showed up, some security/AI/command would always follow "Policy-A" who would aggressively and relentlessly try to murder all the vox based on what CC had done in the past, then there would be the other half following "Policy-B" who would freak the fuck out and accuse "A" of being murdering validhunters because that's how CC treated them in the past. The argument would boil down to both of them saying "Well it's what CentComm wants!" while having equally justified yet diametrically opposed understandings of what CC actually wants. I know it's important to point out that vox crew tended to 'volunteer' themselves for the Vox Raiders whenever they could, but the other side of the coin was that sometimes command/ai/sec would be so obsessed with their valids that they wouldn't give the vox a chance to even go "Hihis!" before mercilessly wiping them out as if they were nukeops. This was particularly annoying for the vox raiders since the inviolate explicitly, painstakingly instructs them to avoid excessive damage and avoid inflicting fatalities above all else.

    Again, I'd personally be interested in seeing Shoal Vox trading/raiding parties as a midround: In terms of potential damage and de-railing the round they couldn't be any more disastrous than terrorspiders or swarmers appearing instead, they can shake up the round without derailing the round through excessive killing/destruction, and they offer a very wide variety of RP opportunities depending on whatever's going on at the time they show up. I'd go more into why I like them as an idea but Drakeven's already covered most of what made them fun in the original post.

     

    I have a wishlist of things that I'd like to see accounted for regarding shoal vox if they're re-implemented, but probably couldn't be budgeted within the focus and time investment of our coding team:

    Spoiler

    Vox should have a contingency in the inviolate that they can use much stronger force against any crew who trespass on their Skipjack unless they were expressly and clearly, insistently invited aboard. So many times, engineers or casual civilians with EVA will just break into the Skipjack, loot it, destroy the Skipjack control console or kill the vox in-residence just because they can, and sometimes the shoal vox just sat there and watched it happen because they were terrified of breaching the inviolate. No: If specific members of the crew decide to independently go out of their way to try and fuck with the dangerous, unpredictable spacegulls with harpoon guns who care very little about NT's corporate regulations and Space Law, the specific crew choosing to try shitting in their sundaes should prepare to either robust or get robusted, full stop.

    Concurrently, lore about the inviolate should encourage crew vox to be slightly more cagey and suspicious of 'outsider' vox: Obviously the inviolate is a near-sacred set of rules, but they cannot always be adhered to perfectly, and NT-employed vox should be reluctant to offer their help to vox originating from off-station, as NT-vox don't personally know the Shoal-vox well enough to trust that they'll show restraint as-necessary. Similarly, vox in general should be encouraged to aggressively, vindictively self-police if they hear that traders/raiders are breaching inviolate. I'm thinking something like this, just with a lot more *aflap.

    If I could code, what I'd want to see is an 'all or nothing' approach to integrating the inviolate lore with Vox gameplay: As a unique gimmick, I'd say that all vox players should get "the inviolate" as a fluff objective -- being exempted if they've simultaneously got antag status, of course. The end-of-round report is already able to detect how much of the station is intact and how many of the crew died, so Inviolate could be a collective pass/fail that all vox would see based on what percentage of the station is intact and alive -- perhaps something above 70% station integrity and a 60% survival rate among the general crew would be necessary for a 'pass', and of course reported as a single entry in the end-of-round report rather than as a separate entry for each and every vox. Just to make this feel more like a special vox thing, the inviolate success/fail report would only appear for vox players in most cases, and only be viewable for the rest of the server if trader/raiders appear.

     

    • Like 1
  15. I'm experimenting with seeing how useful my work can be as an educational resource for new sec players. I'm not sure how many new sec players look at this thread, but I keep seeing the same mistakes repeated over and over again in regards to dealing with certain threats. If this gets positive reception I might release more visual PSAs for new security.

    So, my first topic here is going to be a few basic pointers on xenomorph combat:

    tevPZjj.png?2

    Spoiler

    Xenomorph hunters have a 'leap' ability that lets them cross a massive distance incredibly quickly, and inflict a guaranteed stun if it hits a crewmember. The hardcounter to this is to use a riot shield. Against most dangers, the riot shield only has a 50% chance to block. However, in regards to the hunter's leap attack, this is upped to a 100% chance.

    k1BPIPU.png?1

    Second piece of advice: Head protection.
     

    Spoiler

     

    When dealing with xenomorphs, anyone intending to fight the xenos absolutely needs a helmet that covers the mouth. This includes riot helmets, biohazard-3 suit hoods, hardsuit helmets, and welding helmets (so long as the welding helmet is flipped down to cover the face). If a character isn't wearing a helmet that protects the mouth, being adjacent to a facehugger will cause the facehugger to immediately rip off whatever is being worn in the 'mask' slot, latch onto the character's head, and knock them unconscious for a prolonged duration, during which point they'll be impregnated with a xenomorph larva long before they can wake up. Xenomorphs can also pick up and throw facehuggers to do this as well, without needing to knock their victims down or even get into close range.

    I'll just repeat that again for emphasis: It doesn't matter if the xenomorph is on the other side of a long hallway or a long distance away, if your character isn't wearing a helmet that protects the mouth, the xenomorph can throw a facehugger across the distance, and it'll instantly latch onto the face without any ability to dodge.

    Riot helms might look a little unattractive, but getting your character's guts all over everything by a chestbursting xeno larva is even less attractive. Trust me.

    As for specifics: IPCs are of course immune to getting larvae implanted, but being grappled by a facehugger will still cause the prolonged unconsciousness, which is more than enough time for a xenomorph to slash it to death conventionally.

    Summary:

    What works: Riot helms, level-3 biohazard hoods, hardsuit helmets, flipped-down welding helmets, the EOD bombsuit hood, the radiation hood, collectible blob hats, being a golem, being a shadowling, cardborg helmets from cardboard sheets, carved pumpkin helmets from botany.

    What doesn't work: Gasmasks, Security Compli-O-nator Gasmasks, Standard security helmets, bulletproof helmets, the vast majority of headwear not listed above.

    mixhsMd.png?1

    2BQJawV.png
     

    Spoiler

     

    This is more general advice, rather than just for xenos: The Ion Rifle is a very specially-designed weapon that causes EMP blasts on impact. An EMP (electromagnetic pulse) does literally zero damage to flesh-and-blood targets. That's not basically none, or almost none, it literally inflicts zero points of damage.

    The ion rifle is useful against: Swarmers, Mechs, Cyborgs, IPCs.

    The ion rifle is NOT useful against: Terrorspiders, Blobs, Xenomorphs, Nuclear Ops*, Criminals, Crew.

    It feels like every time the armory gets opened up and I'm in sec, I have to slowly and carefully explain this to at least one player who picks it up and tries to use it as a primary armament. Hopefully I'm saving myself a few future headaches by explaining this here.

    *I believe the Ion rifle can tamper with certain implants, if the Nuke Ops in question is using any. Either way, you'll only need to hit them once before you have to follow up with a conventional lethal weapon.

     

    kbqhF1u.jpg?1

    Of @Fursamie's character, Domitia Aquila. First time I've managed to a request without it going terribly.

     

    vp8qOwD.jpg

    This was from a Nuke Op round that took place sometime last year, if I remember correctly. As a gimmick we decided that all of the team would hide, fully equipped, inside a single cardboard box, and get as close to the nuke disk as possible before jumping out. We only got as far as dorms before a nosy civilian opened our box, but it was a hilarious, glorious failure.

     

    I1wOfvf.jpg?1

    Having played in sec for long enough, I find that long-term regular players tend to fall under similar 'personality types'. Bolton Grey and Chad Wolf are good examples of this: They're both ridiculously robust, know their stuff, and can be trusted to hold their own in a chaotic situation... if you can convince them to stop goofing around for fifteen seconds, that is.

     

    sootaZt.jpg?3

    I think most sec regulars who play in the afternoons are familiar with Cardiox and his vampire shenanigans at this point. He's quite a challenge to deal with when there's a competent sec team. When there isn't, well...

     

    V5kzFD2.jpg?1

    From either a cultist round or a changeling round, can't remember which. In any case, sec had already 100% redtexted the antags, so an admin (pretty sure it was Spark, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt just in case) decided to spawn 2 perfect copies of Cecilia and gave control of them to players from Dchat.

    YnyRanL.jpg?2

    This was around the same time as the Heathers collab with Phantasmicdream, so needless to say, dropping references to the musical was one of the first things I thought of.

    Spoiler

    hGDqrUH.png?1  kMtZmI4.png?1

     

    uTt4EXo.jpg?2

    Space Lube: 'Because fuck you, that's why'.

     

    jBbUJLR.jpg?2

    "That HoS was bad. Why did they keep ignoring me?"

    I'd elaborate but this image sucks out my will to live the longer I look at it, so I'll sum it up like this:

    This is what happens during Highpop when there's no warden or magistrate. If it seems like Cecilia's ignoring you, believe me when I say she doesn't do it on purpose.

    • Like 9
  16. UHH.PNG.15fc8f6ed88bb1099a215b8d538e045e.PNG

    Voxxy spider, y̵̳̙͚̥̗͇͉͓͉̭̽ǻ̷̡̨̠̙͔̺͎̅͒̎͜͠͠y̵̤͕͈̰͔̳͈͂̃ȁ̶̛̈́̽̂͠ is g̴̯̞̰̔͘ô̵ͅö̸̬͙̍̂d̶̥̮̿͘s.

    ERTea.PNG.2f3df93058ccc9f9d2b281e6c899966a.PNG

    ERTea. One of Tea's more amusing outfits.

    WTF.PNG.1dc58aacd5ddc8f4733c6e41e009aaec.PNG

    The EMPRESS of Terror: When regular Queens of Terror aren't enough of an absolute pain.

    3Celia.PNG.d1ca1c1e22fe6731dac0d180f45dbcf4.PNG

    When 1 HoS isn't enough of a pain in the ass.

    • Like 1
  17. Server croaked during a blob round. This is how I used the free time:

    KVyWVXv.jpg?2

    Traitor duo 'That Voice in Your Head' (Three-Point-Fourteen as an esword mime) and 'The Prankster' (Chad Wolf with Sleeping Carp+Chainsaw) square off against a gygax.

    I was going to word-bubble Cecilia dropping some sort of snappy one-liner from inside the gygax, but I think that'd be too arrogant: All in all Chad and Pi chose to sally out for a fight rather than endlessly evading and raiding sec for the rest of the shift, so ultimately they're the heroes in this picture.

     

    MAEJpgf.jpg?1

    I'm not sure if it's just that Robotics is more competent these days or major crisis situations just happen more frequently, but I find that I've resorted to using mechs in more rounds during the past few months than I have in the past few years.

    Spoiler

    This image was very heavily based on the poster of "Luftrausers". I really liked how the poster's artist managed to handle depth perception, shading and generally managing to put so much detail in without making the image feel cramped or like details were being blocked off, so I wanted to see if I could improve my own talents by doing something like that.

    There's a few things I'd probably change if I could do this image over: For one thing, both the stick shift and the joystick both have launch switch covers which seems a bit redundant, and some of the switches and levers look like they'd be incredibly awkward to reach from the pilot's seat.

     

    wHfHcRk.jpg?1

    Torque.

     

    XB8j8tj.jpg?2

     

     

    As part of an abnormally competent and well-organized team, Security managed to take down a cult, a xeno hive, a slaughterdemon, then a second xeno hive in a single shift. Supposedly we were so impressive that CentComm announced that "The CEO of Nanotrasen" wanted to personally meet with the security team after the shift:
     

    Spoiler

     

    55MGvNs.png

    n0VQSj7.png

    Unfortunately, the scientists set off their celebratory end-of-round maxcap bombs the moment the shuttle docked, so nobody in sec got an opportunity to really interact with the CEO after the round ended. That's not going to stop me from acting like it happened, though.

     

    For the image itself, I couldn't quite get the CEO's head drawn the way I wanted it. I tried to fix it one more time after this, but the paper began warping from repeated eraser use so I figured it was better to cut my losses.

     

    k0AZuNW.jpg?2
     

    Spoiler

     

    2ASlMwn.png

    YMbY2xB.png

    Robert Pond.

     

    So, since the server was down for basically the whole day, I'm throwing in a bunch of sketches I made for a Shadowrun tabletop campaign I DM'd for a couple of sessions:

    Spoiler

    The party's characters, in no specific order:

    F77fKhu.jpg?21OkgUo7.jpg?1

    RrkfXfS.jpg?1q12CrIZ.jpg?1

    EgaINFX.jpg?1NdVuNnB.jpg?2

    As a few general notes:

    Yes, Moody is basically Ana Larive from Killing Floor 2.

    Cricket was a pre-existing character, where the player had commissioned a character sheet from another artist that I then used as a reference. Amusingly enough that artist also had trouble drawing Cricket's head from a frontal profile, further supporting my theory that all artists have trouble drawing animal snouts from the front.

    Drawing Omen was quite a lot of fun. Most of the women I draw tend to conform to a very similar body type, so Omen was an opportunity for me to try breaking out of that--hence why she has 3 sketches while the rest of the party got 1 each.

    Various NPCs, again in no specific order:

    jVVn163.jpg?1qf3kGir.jpg?2wbvTsrK.jpg?1xeKipzX.jpg?1QdDWNz0.jpg?1tVtkWKS.jpg?1

     

     

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  18. On 9/1/2019 at 1:25 AM, dotagamer said:

    This is a very unpopular solution/suggestion from me, but personally whenever i wanted to try out new jobs I'm not familiar with i go to a small pop server that have similiar jobs to the one in the main server i played at just to learn from it, the benefit from small pop server since they have low amount of players they all kinda agreed anonymously to not acting harshly to other without reason, removing one of stress factor coming from in this case security job, furthermore there's less cases of problem to dealt with and generally everyone are kinda on the same side to not mess up the station too quickly, lastly on the antagonist since small pops mean small security number sometime even just 1, new player who are starting out security roles might be able to learn the pressure a lot of the jobs with simple objective in mind, to catch that antagonist without worrying about lack of coordination cause again, Low pops.

     

    So what I'm saying is, ask them if they ever had experience as security on other server, if yes taught the basic of space law in here, if not well good luck and suggest them to either read or try it out on other server first <- (very dumb idea)

    As someone who learned the basics from another server, I actually will say this is decent enough advice.

    There's a saying that goes, "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Low-pop servers make for excellent learning areas since most of the people playing are still learning the basic mechanics of the game, and there's less overall pressure to deliver. Systems that are considered the bare minimum for competent Security here:  like knowing how to use the security records to set wanted status, knowing how to identify mindshield implants, knowing how to use tracking implants, would make you seen as a robusting God on some lowpop servers. Furthermore, less players means fewer distractions on sec's plate at any given moment. Something as simple as checking a guy's PDA for a Syndicate telestore uplink was held up as an apex of competence.

    Of course, Para is a unique server and not everything carries over, but I can recommend using lower-pop servers just to figure out things like how to avoid tasing your own teammates in a fight, how to avoid getting blindsided by less-intuitive game mechanics (such as anyone hiding in a locker will get a free hit if you open the locker at close range), knowing how to equip and activate internals in the event of a gas leak, that sort of thing.

    • Thanks 1
  19. I think that security borgs are strong enough when it comes to infiltration antags: traitors, changelings, cultists, and vampires. Secborgs can also do some nasty work to Nuke Ops if they're smart about it.

    As mentioned, the primary appeal of playing a cyborg is that they're immune to many of the hazards and stuns that would affect normal crew (though they have quite a few unique vulnerabilities of their own).  The addition of all access and a direct camera link shared by the AI makes security cyborgs a real pain for infiltration antags. Security borgs used to be much stronger before a nerf that was implemented some time ago. In particular, old security borgs could sustain considerably more damage before losing their equipment modules, and were easier to repair. Cyborgs still have the ability to fulfill the role of a heavily-armored 'door kicker' for the rest of sec to follow when clearing cult hideouts, and a secborg is always nice to have around to protect the brig from direct assaults. My issue here is that secborgs are almost useless when doing anything outside this role.

    By my observation, any time one of the major 3 biohazard infestation types (xenos, blobs, terrorspiders) appears, being a security borg seems to be a direct downgrade from playing as a normal sec officer. This is a bit of a problem, since cyborgs in any other department get a variety of tools for fulfilling their departmental roles better than the average member of that department, while sec borgs are considerably worse than regular crewmember sec in a variety of security-related roles.

    While secborgs can have a lasergun unlocked from illegal modules, keep in mind that so many different factors have to come into play for this to happen:

    1. First, the gametype either needs to involve traitors, or a piece of uncommon contraband needs to randomly spawn in maint: Dart pistol, suspicious toolbox, stetchkin, suspicious surgery bag, and whoever finds the legally-questionable gear has to give it to RnD instead of just invoking the Finder's Keepers rule or turning it over to security who are more likely keep it in evidence storage. Just to re-iterate: Unless the starting antag is traitors, then the only way for RnD to receive an illegal research level for cyborg illegal modules is with RNG-based maint loot. Technically you could also get illegal tech levels from stolen Nuke Op gear, but if it's Nuke Ops then why are you wasting time doing RnD for illegal modules instead of protecting the fukken disk?

    2. Step two, the confiscated syndicate gear from a traitor or the rare maint syndi gear has to be brought to RnD--keep in mind that security SoP demands that all confiscated syndicate gear must be held in evidence storage, and therefore in order to fulfill this step Security has to be willing to break SoP.

    3. Illegals must be developed, and both Command and the AI have to agree to break SoP by distributing illegal upgrades to their security borgs.

    Code Gamma is also a way for secborgs to upgrade themselves with lethals, but keep in mind that Gamma almost never gets authorized when it's needed most, and can only be activated by an admin or if a roundstart blob infestation reaches a certain point. I've seen plenty of Terrorspider and Xenomorph infestations snowball out of hand without Gamma ever being called, which I believe discards Gamma as any sort of reliable way for cyborgs to get lethal equipment.

    Lethals or not, the root of the problem is that secborgs have an incredibly difficult time staying relevant during a major biohazard. Secborgs are more or less useless against blobs since they can't do much aside from trying to harmbaton the blob tiles (extremely inefficient), and even if they get lasers, reflective blob tiles limit how much use a lasergun can be. Versus xenos, secborgs are absurdly vulnerable to xenomorph melee: The xenomorphs' 'stun' (disarm intent) can knock a cyborg out for longer than it would affect a crewman--this makes very little sense, and seems incredibly unfair to secborgs who don't have much recourse outside of trying to harmbaton the xenomorphs to death. Even without a stun, a xeno hunter still could reasonably beat a harmbaton-wielding borg in a 1v1 due to how much faster xenomorph hunters are, and how much damage xeno claws inflict. Secborgs versus Terrorspiders are basically dead meat if they don't have lethals, and while Terrorspiders can't 1-shot stun a cyborg they do trade off so favourably in melee combat that trying to harmbaton them is basically suicide. Again, this wouldn't be as much of a problem if lethal modules weren't so rare and unusual for a variety of reasons.

    The overall idea of cyborgs is that each specialized model should be better than the average crewmember at fulfilling specific roles within that department they're specialized for. I understand that this is part of why Sec borgs had to be nerfed in the first place: It was manageable as long as there were only 1-2 secborgs, but being a sec borg was so appealing that players would flock to the role and there would be 5-6 secborgs dogpiling all of the antags by the end of the shift.

    What I'd propose is that secborgs shouldn't be useless when fighting the major 3 biohazards--making it so that xenos can't take them down with a single button click is a good place to start. Similarly, RnD should have an SoP-friendly way to unlock cyborg lethals without relying on the admins to call Gamma.

    The easiest and least disastrous change I can think of is to give security borgs some sort of 'gun gripper' that would let them pick up and operate a single lasergun or egun from the armory just like any other officer--weapons carried in this matter would need to be visible upon examination as long as they're carried, and the gun is dropped if the borg is ever stunned or the module slot they're using to carry the egun/lasergun gets disabled, and the borg could recharge a carried weapon using its internal battery at the same speed as a regular recharger unit. SoP would demand that they return the firearm to the armory when no longer necessary, as with regular officers. This way security borgs have very little change from how they normally operate versus infiltration antags, but they're not completely shit out of luck any time security is asked to counter one of several threats where non-lethal equipment is useless.

    The other idea I can think of is that there should be a maximum limit of 2 security-module cyborgs active at any given moment--any further cyborgs trying to choose security will be denied and told to pick another module. My thinking is that this would put security cyborgs into the same niche as Durand Mechs: They're a strong deterrent to anyone trying to take down security out with a head-on assault, but otherwise they're slow, easy to run away from, and limited numbers mean that they can't be everywhere at once.

  20. Most of the proposed changes are interesting and I'm looking forward to them, but I'd like to offer some feedback an enormous wall of text as someone who's repeatedly fought them and played as them:

    Queen of Terror

    Spoiler

     

    First and foremost, I do not believe the Queen of Terror needs a buff. While Queens are not excessively dangerous on their own, their survival almost always results in a Terrorspider hive achieving victory because, as you said:

    On 8/25/2019 at 7:26 PM, Kyet said:

    Queen play is boring. Good queens hide in a room and just churn out eggs like a factory. This isn't very engaging.

    I've seen this play out basically every time a queen appears: Since the queen can produce infinite spiderlings, a Queen of Terror is basically a living doomsday timer in which the terrorspiders are guaranteed to win by attrition so long as the queen is alive, or if they can't 'win' by slaughtering all crew on the Cyberiad and forcing Code Delta they'll at least force a favorable stalemate (i.e. keeping the station while the survivors leave on the Quarantine-ignoring crew transfer shuttle that gets called around the 2-hour mark). Queens are also plenty dangerous in direct combat already: The only time I've seen a Queen of Terror forced back is from a Durand --arguably one of the most overpowered pieces of equipment the crew can deploy-- and even then the Queen will always be able to outrun a Durand safely due to disparity in movement speeds (this also means Durands cannot retreat very easily from smart ambushes/disfavorable odds due to how slow they are) and even then the Durand will have an incredibly difficult, nigh-impossible chance of taking out a queen since the queen can punch through walls, and will almost always be protected by a large mass of other spiders who'll surge forward to waste the Durand's ammo, battery, and will kill the Durand if the pilot tries to single-mindedly go after the Queen. Attempting to go after a queen in a Durand almost always results in the queen falling back behind a large swarm of reds and purples to heal up and continue spamming eggs, while the Durand wastes ammo and gets forced back on its own or dies. Since Queens only take minor damage from zero-pressure environments and can break through walls, I've also seen queens go on rampages similar to a Prince of Terror by breaching into the AI sat and biting the AI core to death, and just constantly killing on the move so the Durand will never be able to catch up to it. I re-iterate: Queens are already immensely difficult to deal with, and often force Terrorspider infestations to win purely by staying alive. If anything, make Terrorspider Queens do more melee damage but be slightly slower, so that if they make the mistake of over-committing to an assault or taking too much damage they have a tougher time just sprinting off into the nest to heal up again. The issue of Queens being boring to play cannot be fixed by making them even stronger--while the single player who gets to be Queen will no doubt have a fun powerfantasy of destroying everyone like a Slaughterdemon, overall I think the playerbase will have less enjoyment.

    I would suggest making the number of eggs a Queen of Terror can lay be connected to the number of global victims cocooned by the entire hive. So every time a crewmember gets cocooned by any spider anywhere on the station, the Queen of Terror gets to lay additional eggs. Hear me out: While it's a little unintuitive, it's still more sensible than the Queen somehow ignoring conservation of mass to fart out infinite eggs without doing anything at all, and it's still much more forgiving than the process the xenomorphs need to go through by facehugging and nesting live victims. It also means Terrorspiders won't always win prolonged stalemates due to the queen being able to propagate infinitely while the crew inevitably become weaker over time as crewmembers die and guns are lost.

     

    Prince of Terror

    Spoiler

     

    While wanting less RNG and more reliability for the Prince of Terror is good, I urge you not to give them an Area-of-effect ability. In Terrorspider infestations the Terrorspiders almost always outnumber the crew, and giving the prince an ability to punish the crew for grouping together is a horrendously bad idea (because what else are the crew supposed to do if the prince is capable of killing them with an AOE, are they meant to split up and 1v1 the Prince? Durands only pull that off when the pilot player is good while the prince player is not).

    In regards to vents, Terrorspiders in my opinion do not need more and better ways to break through welded vents. The Queen and Prince already have the ability to smash through solid walls and most of the 'common' terrorspider species can force open unbolted doors, which is more than can be said for xenomorphs who have no ability to breach welded vents, and to get over a solid obstacle they have to soak it in acid then sit around drumming their fingers for a minute before said obstacle finally melts.

    What I'd suggest is that a Princes' movement speed should be slightly slower than a person at full nutrition by default, but have a recharging 'lunge' ability in a similar strand to the xenomorph hunter's leap (or the Ravager from the CM server, for those who are familiar): Something that lets him quickly knock down anyone standing in a 5-tile line. Princes are already so unbelievably tanky that they can simply whittle down a defensive position by forcing the crew to waste their high-damage, hard-to-replace ammo to drive the Prince them off every time he attacks--things like WT-550 mags and shotgun shells are extremely difficult to get more of, but you have to use them against a terror prince since using a laser just means that the prince will literally take every single laser shot in the face until you click empty, then catch up and kill you anyway since he moves slightly faster than a person at full nutrition. I don't think Princes are going to be having their health reduced any time soon, but I'd like to see them altered into a situation where they're most dangerous when ambushing through walls and using clever maneuvering and ambush tactics to catch victims unexpected, as well as being able to single out and assassinate the more dangerous/robust crewmen in a group, then letting the swarm mop up stragglers while the Prince retreats and heals.

     

    Gray Terrorspiders

    Spoiler

     

    Gray terrorspiders are also fine as they are, in my opinion. Having played a gray terror recently with overwhelmingly deadly results, I would not say they are 'weak' but rather require skill and cunning to be effective (something that I think is sorely lacking in many Terrorspider players). The trick to doing well as a Gray terrorspider is recognizing that it isn't your job to wade into frontline combat alongside the reds and purples (which is where most gray terrorspiders simply die and then whine about Grays being weak), but instead Grays must find those nooks and crannies where the crew forgot to weld then set up a deathtrap where people least expect it. In order to build an effective nest as a Gray, the trick is to scatter translucent webs around haphazardly around a killing zone instead of trying to create solid, deeply-layered masses of web that the crew will easily notice while going through the area. Once this is done, the Gray must smash all the lights in the area of their deathtrap so that any crew travelling through the now-darkened area will have an even shorter window of time to recognize the presence of translucent webs before running into them and getting stunned and mauled to death by the Gray Terror in the area.

    During my first round as Gray, I used the library and chapel as my deathtrap, scattering webs about randomly instead of creating solid masses and smashing the lights, and killed around 6-7 players this way by baiting crew into the translucent webs, then dragging them off into the dark where a Red Terror hiding in the back of the library would help me maul them to death. The second round I played Gray Terror, I found the pet shop vent was left unwelded (while most of the swarm was in turbine/medbay) and had translucent webs scattered across the hall between the Gateway and the Pet Shop. Since the crew weren't expecting a terrorspider on the other end of the station, they would unwittingly run into the darkened area while looking for supplies, stumble into a translucent web, and I would promptly maul them into crit with the Gray terror's damage boost versus web-stunned targets, and drag the corpse into the pet shop before cocooning so the next victims wouldn't notice that crew had been killed in the area. To make matters better for me, every time someone fell into a translucent web they would drop whatever junk they were carrying at the time, meaning that the translucent became even less identifiable due to the random piles of junk strewn everywhere to distract the eye.

    Again, smashing the lights is an important part of this: Flashlights don't illuminate that much, and even a heavily-armed crewman will hesitate to follow you into a darkened nesting area for fear of stumbling into another translucent web or fear that you're luring them into an ambush. Especially with terrorwebs scattered around haphazardly it's easy to lure them into a dark area, then run from the side and just push them into a chunk of web they didn't notice. It's hilarious.

    The Gray Terror should be a way to punish the crew for forgetting or ignoring vents here and there, or to reward brown spiders by coordinating with other members of the swarm: If you give Gray spiders the ability to break vents, that just makes vent welding even more pointless for the crew than it already is.

    For doing the 'ambush' thing as a Gray spider, giving them passive stealth encourages brainless and unperceptive gameplay: Gray spiders already get enough concealment from smashing nearby lights and hiding in the dark. If I were to propose a change to make them more sneaky, bodies cocooned by Gray spiders should emit no light (i.e., an officer's corpse with a flashlight in the pocket shouldn't continue to generate light after being cocooned) and give the Gray terrorspider the ability to smother desk lamps and other light-emitting objects by cocooning them. Letting them stealth while in brightly-lit areas is simply adding idiot-padding to them.

    In short, people cannot expect to play as a terrorspider type that is described as relying on ambushes, forethought, and situational awareness then complain because they can't just charge down brightly-lit corridors at a sec officer with a shotgun with zero preparation. I've had an immense amount of fun playing as a Gray Terror compared to being a Red terror where you are basically forced to brainlessly rush at the crew hoping you can mash LMB and dodge bullets really good until the spessman goes horizontal. The difference between playing Gray and Red is the difference between playing chess and playing Call of Duty: One is based on knowing how your opponent thinks, anticipating them, and outwitting them with a mixture of skill, experience and creative thinking, the other is based on... other things than that.

    If you're thinking stealth, think Splinter Cell or Alien vs. Predator where you smash out all the lights and have to comprehensively read your environment to make things easier for yourself, not Bethesda's crouch-literally-anywhere-and-suddenly-you're-invisible-in-plain-sight.

    If I wanted anything for Gray Terrors, I'd recommend boosting their health regen since they're usually setting up isolated and behind enemy lines (perhaps let them heal a considerably greater portion of their health from cocooning someone, so their recovery correlates to how effective and lethal they are as a player), and let them crawl into vents slightly faster so the Gray has better chances of escaping when the crew finally realize that they have to divert attention to clearing out the Gray Terror's killing zone in force.

     

    White Spiders

    Spoiler

     

    If anything, I think White Terrors aren't as overpowered as you suggest: All the victims infected with white terror eggs will likely end up in medbay, and as Medbay's vents are almost guaranteed to be welded by this point the spiderlings will have nowhere to go when they emerge and inevitably be killed by the crew before they leave medbay. The effectiveness of White Terrorspiders depends strongly on medbay's diligence in gathering up the white egg victims and killing any spiderlings before they can get away; what you are proposing involves taking away even that thin layer of control that the crew would otherwise be able to impose on the situation.

    Given the option between White Spiders that can create Princess-of-Terrors and the idea of a White Spider that can't infect monkeys or slimes, but basically has a one-hit kill by stunning and KO'ing select crewman, I actually do prefer the former. The problem with the proposed change is that while there may be 'less terrorspiders overall' there'll be a lot more players who'll just be minding their business and suddenly get straight-up removed from the round because of a single button click rendering them helpless, unconscious, and doomed to die without anyone knowing about it. I beg you: Do not do this.

     

    Mother Terrors

    Spoiler

    I've been a part of this server's community since 2015 and have literally never seen a Mother of Terror in action. I think it may be easier to just dispose of the concept entirely and recycle the sprite for another form of Terror Spider? I'm probably going to regret suggesting this, but ideas that come to mind would be a terrorspider that has a confusion-inducing AOE screech that can be resisted with ear-protection, or can release EMP burst with a warning and small delay? Or perhaps a spider that throws globs of extremely sticky web that inflict a tiny knockdown and potentially legcuff and/or handcuff on contact similar to bolas?

    Green Terrors

    Spoiler

     

    Green-only infestations don't bother me, to be honest. Having played as a green spider recently I was part of a terrorspider infestation that held on to the southern half of medbay for a good 15-30 minutes, managing to kill off and cocoon a good dozen crew before finally getting dislodged by a mech with ERT support (half of the ERT was already dead by that point mind you). Even then, the only reason I really died was because I got cocky and didn't ventcrawl off to engineering secure storage when I had the chance. There should be no such thing as a 'harmless' Terrorspider, but not every Terrorspider event should be guaranteed to de-rail the round, force all of the current antags to abandon their objectives, force an ERT, then force the crew off the station at the end regardless of the terrorspiders' skill. Not every outbreak should be as devastating as a Terrorqueen, and I think Green Terrorspider starts don't need to have an easy time slaughtering off the whole crew. Terrorspiders should be extremely dangerous when played by an intelligent player, but ultimately beatable if the majority of terrorspiders aren't competent and the crew have their act together. Greens should not have special gimmicks to make them stronger in combat: Their entire gimmick is that they trade off direct combat ability in return for being capable of laying eggs--a feature that reds, black widows, etc. do not have. An infestation that starts with greens should invariably be less organized and less dangerous than a Terrorspider infestation headed by a Queen of Terror. If you're going to give anything to Green Terrors, give them an ability to heal other Terrorspiders: make it so Green spider web doubles the rate of passive healing for any spiders on that tile, or make it so they can directly boost the health of an adjacent spider using a passively-replenishing resource, similar to how xenos can transfer plasma. Methods of easy healing are one of the few missing utilities in the Terrorspider roster, and it would promote teamwork and mutual dependence amongst Terrorspider players. One of the 'boring' aspects of playing a Terrorspider is when your first engagement takes you to 30-40% health and you have to sit in a corner drumming your fingers for several minutes waiting for your health to slowly, ponderously trickle back up towards 100%. I think if we consider "what causes boredom in terrorspider players" then the sluggish process of waiting to heal is definitely one of the larger culprits.

    Ultimately my question is this: Terrorspider infestations, at least more than half the time, will end up defeating the crew or at least holding on long enough that the shuttle transfer forces the crew to withdraw from the station. This happens so consistently that it's becoming predictable and feels more frustrating and inevitable than fun. Running around slaughtering crew as a terrorspider also gets a bit boring when there's no tact or challenge involved: Lowering the bar for how much strategy and forethought is involved with playing Terrorspiders will not make them more entertaining to play.

    In fact, if we're talking about player enjoyment, should we not consider the enjoyment of the players opposing the terrorspiders? You emphasize that Terrorspiders are starting to feel stale and boring to play as; I say that fighting against Terrorspiders is boring not because their starting rosters are excessively predictable (whites always progressing into queens, princesses always appearing in pairs, prince-of-terrors always appearing alone, etc.) but that even when the crew can predict them perfectly the crew will often get overwhelmed anyway. For an infestation to win with just greens, a great deal of robustness should be required.

     

    About Atmos, Spider Nests vs Xeno Nests, and Overall Battle Strategy

    Spoiler

     

    8 hours ago, Leanfrog said:

    Another issue I've noticed is when browns or purples spawn they tend to immediately break the wall nearest to them, this is an issue for obvious reasons, now we could make it so that they have a delay on their actions on spawning or make certain webs capable of blocking atmos, kind of like a holofan, I bring this up because far too often do I see purples spawning in turbine then immediately smashing the wall next to them which leads into space thus making the nest inhospitable after a period of time.

    Now, I'd like to go on a bit of a tangent here and apologize to Leanfrog as I am going to strongly, rabidly oppose their idea of letting Terrorspiders insulate their nests against space and atmos. This is because spiders already have a strong advantage on the offense, but such a massive advantage when defending that the only way for the crew to really force the spiders out of a prepared nest is with atmos or excessively potent chem/toxin bombs (and for some reason bombers have a nasty habit of getting salted on by the community even when their bombs tradeoff positively, to the point where Command/AI would literally rather let the situation spiral to the point of nuking the entire fucking station instead of using a TTV or chembomb to blow up a comparatively modest-sized chunk of the station to save the remaining portions). Even a durand with a bluespace battery can only dig through so many layers of terrorweb before it has to run back to robotics for recharge and repair (since Torque is literally the only roboticist I know of who actually knows how to exchange mech components, let alone have the balls to field-swap mech batteries), and within the time required to recharge a Durand, the terrorspiders can easily retake any ground they lost to the Durand's initial attack. And keep in mind since Queens can lay infinite eggs without outside involvement that means all the Terrorspiders have to do is create a single, impenetrable nest with the queen ensconced in the middle, then turtle until they win without needing to take any risks whatsoever or commit to any major offensives against the crew. I know words like 'strategic risk' are really vague and subjective, so I'll use a comparison to xenomorphs to explain what I mean about the terrorspiders "never being forced to take any risks" at present:

    The major distinction between playing a xenomorph hive and playing a Terrorspider hive with a Queen is that the xenos are forced to take risks at the beginning in order to produce extra xenos; a Queen of Terror just has to turtle up and let eggs accumulate. The opening stages of a xeno infestation are very much reliant on the Queen's ability to hold the nest on her own, and on the ability of the 1-2 other starting xenos to grab victims for the Queen's facehuggers. If the nest gets assaulted early, the Xenomorph queen has very few options beyond hunkering and trying to fight whatever the odds are: since the Xeno queens are nowhere near fast enough to escape getting cornered in her hive, and she must wait for her facehugger eggs to mature, she cannot simply abandon the hive without significant consequences or just being straight-up pursued into space and killed there. Terrorspider queens, by comparison, do not have to take any such risks due to faster movement and merely need to turtle up in their web fortress making infinite eggs. There's also no such thing as truly 'cornering' a Terrorspider queen in her nest as long as she remembers she can always instantly Kool-Aid Man her way through the nearest wall and escape the moment she sees the odds are stacked against her.

    Having both spearheaded xenomorph wins while playing as xeno queens or hunters, and stomped on xeno hives while playing HoS, in my opinion Xenomorphs are honestly a lot more fun to both play as and to fight against. This is because the outcome of a Xeno infestation is highly dependent on the competency and reaction speed of the players involved and can go either way. Meanwhile, Terrorspider infestations play out like the Battle of Thermopylae, except this time there's more Spartans than Persians. These rounds almost always go in the Terrorspiders' favour as long as a queen isn't stupid. That is predictable, and that predictability is what makes Terrorspider infestations feel bland and boring overall more than the specific features of playing as any one Terrorspider type. Making the Terrorspiders even stronger is just going to make Terrorspider rounds more bland, more predictable, more boring: What I have fun with during Terrorspiders is when I feel like there's a challenge, and that I am mentally engaged trying to outwit the crew and exploit gaps in their knowledge and awareness to win.

     

    TL;DR

    I like how Terrorspiders behave differently than xenos and I love the idea of them. Understand that I don't spend enough energy hating things to bother writing this much about something I don't like. I want Terrorspiders to be greater than they are, more satisfying to play as, less predictable overall. So to reply to each of the points in the OP:

    1.  Balance is a wonderful word, but be sure that the conclusions you're basing your changes off of are actually a result of imbalance and not just the result of players failing to understand how to use a class's strengths.

    2. I have more fun when classes are mentally engaging to play. Making them flatly stronger does not accomplish this, it just makes Terrorspiders easier, less satisfying and even less mentally engaging to play.

    3. Agreed, but the problem I think is not the diversity of starting spiders, but the lack of diversity in outcomes:The Terrorspiders will almost always force the crew off the station from a crew transfer or necessitating Code Delta.

    Bonus Wishlist:

    Spoiler

     

    Terrorspiders should be vulnerable to knockdowns. Not stuns, mind you, but the stuff that logically SHOULD affect them but currently doesn't because of coding negligence: if they're punched by a mech, they should be knocked down. When the gravity generator re-activates, knockdown (Nothing more frustrating than blackout alerts during a Terrorspider event, let me tell you). When they eat an SR-8 missile in the face, knockdown. If they're caught by an azide grenade, knockdown. They get slammed into another terrorspider by fastmos, that's a knockdown. It feels like so many lethal things in the game that feasibly should endanger terrorspiders doesn't do anything because "Eh, they're coded like simple mobs so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯." And it's always aggravating when basically every single environmental hazard proves to be a mild inconvenience to a terrorspider but usually results in crew death since crew are knocked down by basically everything.

    Terrorspiders should be flammable. Currently Terrorspiders love using weldertanks as bullet shields because: a) They know that they barely take any damage from explosions, don't get knocked down by fastmos and therefore can escape breaches fairly quickly, and b) They know that they're fireproof and that if the crew shoot them, it's a bigger danger all around to the crew than to the spiders. This is counter intuitive and not fun to deal with as crew, full stop. Spiders should not be better at surviving getting soaked in burning welding fuel than xenomorphs. If you're going to decry this one, don't wriggle around the goalposts by saying "Well they're vulnerable to atmos heat" because the scenario I pointed to involves weldertanks, not gas-based flamethrowers or plasmafires.

    Beartraps should do significantly more damage to terrorspiders and other critters (they 1-hit kill spacebears but nothing else). This game is all about finding unusual ways to use/abuse your department's default gear to be useful in unusual situations, and I think pest control should be something the janitor can contribute to.

     

     

    • Like 1
  21. On 8/16/2019 at 9:50 PM, PhantasmicDream said:

    <Jonah peeling his shirt off>

    Another drawing for my 80s AU!
    This scene is just showing off Jonah's shotty apartment, and I guess Jonah as well...

    I have to say, I really like this image because it feels like it's a glimpse into some sort of larger work, like a point-and-click adventure or a full feature film. Then it makes me sad because I remember there aren't any point-and-click games or feature films of Jonah and Zeke. Well, not yet, anyway.

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