Twinmold
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Posts posted by Twinmold
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Nuke ops nuke would be unchanged. As I stated, the NAD would still exist so they only need that, and for the new case would just be required to open it.
We might be able to do something where it starts bolted down, attached to the station. You can wrench it to move it (takes a little bit of time), and go to any other area with power/powernet attachment and wrench it back down (also takes a little bit of time). However, to use it, it must be attached to the station. Soon as Code Delta is activated, it locks down (and can't be wrenched up).
Admins can delete it and replace it with the old nuke (as it would still be in the code), and vice versa. It would just be listed, more likely than not, under the obj/machinery/nuclearbomb list. Or I could do it under obj/machinery/selfdestruct or nucleardestruct
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By gameplay-wise, do you mean in that it's mobile?
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Doing some cross firing back and forth, I may have figured out a way to go about it.
Captain still has the NAD. The self-destruct mechanism is built into the station (vault), and therefore cannot be moved. He uses the NAD to open the actual lid on it, but everything else is internal. Entering the code given by Central. When you open the case, you right-click to take out a pin. You click (help intent) on the case to arm the pin. Takes the 5 to 10 seconds to arm each pin. If you click (disarm intent) with a pin in your hand, you put it back into the holder for pins. If you click (disarm intent) without a pin, you start taking a pin out, taking x amount of time to take out. Clicking (help intent) pulls up an informational, so show how many pins are in place, time on the self-destruct, and allows you to insert the given code to start the self-destruct, as well as the override.
Nuke ops still only need the NAD to arm THEIR nuke, AI Malf makes sense in Delta because the self-destruct is built into the station.
Soman also suggested giving the heads a way to bypass the need for the codes, in the case admins aren't on, but I think senior staff should vote on that.
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Power gaming is the main root to destruction of any game, and Space Station 13 is no different. People are so caught up on 'the best way' that they forget what the game is, especially to new players who are just learning the mechanics: It's a learning experience for all players, new and old. We add in new content to give the older players something new to mess around with, and have the older content for newer players to learn. But, as mentioned, there are certain people who forget this, forget that not everyone is on the same level as them, and rather have everything done as soon as possible, especially for those who want to then go out after antags. This leads antags to having to react faster, when the crew is at a low point before they are super powerful 15 to 30 minutes into the shift with X-Ray and super-equipment from science, medical having all the superior drugs available, mining having all the material in the world that will ever be needed (which science promptly steals all of and forgets engineering uses it, too, or that Cargo also needs to send material to the Trurl onboard the Arion for RP reasons).
The game has become 'how can we make this impossible for antags', and forgets... You are not here, expecting to be on a dangerous station, you are here to work. People can know what antags are, but stop living with the mentality that things are ALWAYS going to go wrong, that there are ALWAYS going to be antags... Because that's metagaming, honestly. It's usually outside knowledge from previous rounds and how the code works to know that 95% of the time, there will be some form of antag on the station. Forget about antags, and start focusing on your roleplay to actually do something entertaining. This will help lead antags to becoming more bold in approach, leading to, 'surprise surprise' antags that actually roleplay. We need to get the mentality of 'play to win' to go away and become 'play to roleplay', which was the goal of the Karma system, if I'm not mistaken: To reward players who made the game actually fun. I refuse to give karma to people who don't roleplay, because that's what we are here for. To live a life onboard the station, and roleplaying it makes it believable.
It's not even about unorthodox approaches to the game, but 'how can we make this entertaining'. Engineering making a supermatter? If they do it safely, why not? Just make sure solars are set up first. Remove all the internal components to the engine room, place plating down to fill the gaps, make supermatter engine. No problem. Certain things are not set or allowed for antags because of overall destruction purposes/lag. Bag of Holding is effectively end-round because it has been known to crash the server in the station Z-level if not destroyed quickly enough. We might be a little hard on antags otherwise. Sure, you shouldn't realize the singulo or tesla, as they can kill you, too, honestly, and you shouldn't fill a primary hallway with plasma, but a secluded area? Why not turn the lights off, fill the light-tube with plasma, and put it back in place. Next person turns the lights on, boom. Why not also add a low, almost unnoticeable amount of plasma to the same room so it catches on fire as you have the doors set to a remote signaler so you can bolt them behind the person walking in, forcing them to be trapped in a room on fire? Why do people not do it? Because it's 'hard', and it will 'make it easier for them to get found out in setting it up'. They want the simplest, most effective way... And that's part of why big explosions were ousted, because it's perhaps the biggest power gaming move. There were some other reasons, as well, lag being one of them.
Standard Operating Procedure is IC rules, and the page for them even says they are just a guideline. It's up to the people in charge, the Captain and Heads, if they are going to enforce SOP. The only ones expected to actually follow SOP is security, but sometimes, SOP goes out the window for them, too. A situation needs to be looked out to deem if it was a necessary action, and people who like to adminhelp a breach of Security SOP, expecting/asserting the breacher to be jobbanned, don't remember that there are multiple errors to this logic:
1) Did the person who breach Security SOP have a good reason? Usually an investigation needs to occur to deem if it is even a malicious breach, not a required-for-the-situation breach, unless it is an absolute rule-break (like murdering someone literally for no reason or harm-batoning someone repeatedly because they wouldn't shut up, both capable of being classified as Excessive Violence. Note, stunning someone to stop them from running isn't Excessive Violence).
2) When you adminhelp someone's breach, we do investigate. And we can see things you can't see, or that we are going to share with you. However, when you do an in-game investigation report and send it to Central, it can definitely help us not only make for a IC return report to say ya or nay on firing/termination but also where we need to be looking. We have a LOT of logs we get, and pruning through them can make things difficult, as we might even miss something. It helps when your reports do include transcripts so we can cross-reference that in the logs.
3) When people fear they can get a ban/jobban for playing a role, they stop playing the role. With fewer people playing security, that has two effects: Antags have less resistance from an organized group, and more people power game and valid hunt because there isn't the security force to face off against antags. This can lead to people, on both antag and non-antags, adminhelping 'valid hunter/not doing their job' and 'killed by antag, valid?' responses. The valid hunters also pair with the antag mentality rather than roleplay.
4) While we never reveal the source of a complaint from one player to another, some people can notice patterns for in game changes, and figure out who those people complaining are. Especially when they complain a lot. And when you turn around and are doing their job, and doing poorly at it, they will do the same thing. This 'admins are the way to stop all bad shit' all the time puts a drain on us, as well, and puts you guys subjectively against one another in how you play the game, almost purposely by meta grudging actions. And when we get a lot of complaints from a single person, we notice.
You guys want a better game, a better community? Then we all need to work on our gameplay, start trying to roleplay more rather than just win the game. Do the more difficult things because you can, not because it's hard. To use part of JFK's famous speech: "...and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..." When people have fun with rounds, rounds last longer, and you can spend more time appreciating the work you have done. And when people start having more fun, maybe there will be fewer people thinking it's taboo for a round to be longer than 2 hours.
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If something like this were to happen, it still shouldn't have the .b channel. That's just, in my opinion, way too overpowered and would be abused to all hell to either annoy the AI or request things from the AI directly on any given round, or blow the cover of a malfunctioning AI because it couldn't tell if it had to use another communication medium because it can't tell if you are human or not. Also, anyone who sets their eye color to any neon color would effectively look the same, and could lead both to the AI specifically targeting them or tricking the AI into thinking they are an innovator.
Looking at the pros vs cons...
Pros
Capable of understanding and speaking all languages.
Cons
Takes major brain damage if EMP'd.
Do reduced punching damage.
Mute Points
Can't get drunk.
Reasonable lore already in place.
Effectively, they'd be exactly what a karma-locked species should be: Role-play based. Effectively, they'd make great lawyers, journalists, librarians, chefs, bartenders, and even potentially the Head of Personnel and Captain positions, due to being diplomatic and being able to understand and speak all languages. To me, the unable to get drunk point has both advantages and disadvantages. It would make somewhat sense, lore-wise, but many people like to be able to get shit-faced as any species, even the ones that shouldn't.
Lore being in place also helps, and you did add a relatively reasonable lore backing their creation and why they haven't shown up yet, tying in lore of another star system.
Since they are not supposed to be physical, and instead rely on words, they would be less likely to theoretically throw a punch, anyway, so it only makes sense. It's a con only in that it effectively means they are not as robust as other species, but let us face it: Not everyone should be equally robust because you want to be able to always fight back. If you don't like it, you yourself would never have to play this species.
The implants and chips that allow it to effective understand all languages and speak them would of course mean heavy cerebral modification, and thus an EMP damaging these components, and/or damaging the brain itself, makes sense. It may be a con, but it's a relative understandable con. To further balance this out, what could happen is that the brain effectively has to be repaired with both, as of current, the Advanced Trauma Kit and, for the components themselves, Nanopaste. This is merely a suggestion on that matter, and if that damage is not fixed, effectively they just cannot understand any language other than default Galactic Common and the secondary they select. Having the components not fixed will not affect the overall brain damage count, so they can be without brain damage through fixing the damage without being able to understand other languages.
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Late night poker with Theodore Gregory! Hosted whenever I feel like it. I need to make a list of 'official' rules for Texas Hold'em.
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I haven't jumped on, so I couldn't verify name, but yes. The person who plays Kalaya and plays cards most of the time when it's set up by me.
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I would like to point out that I did a few matches one night (completely out of the blue), followed apparently by nickcrazy after seeing my second setup, whom got another admin to play, and then it kicked off from there with people trying to do different variants. Ace_McLazer can attest to this.
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My answer: WE DO NOT NEED TO REPLACE ME!
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Alcohols should have different 'what they give you' effects, much like the mixed drinks overall have less alcohol to the unit (if they were made with alcohol). And example would be an Irish Cream: It's 2 units Whiskey, 1 unit Cream.
If 1 unit of whiskey gives you 0.4 units of ethanol, then a realistic mixed drink the size of 30 units (20 units Whiskey, 10 units Cream) would only give you 5 units of ethanol total, or if you did a full glass at 60 units, 10 units ethanol total. Effectively, even at full glasses, you'd need at least 5 or 6 of these at full glasses, paired with the body's natural absorption, to make the people with a high tolerance even have a chance to pass out, and only if they drink them in rapid succession. People at medium tolerance would need about 4 or 5 full glasses.
I do like the pair suggestion for making sure the amount of Ethanol you get from drinks is proportional to the type of alcohol, and if a mixed drink continues to note actual mixture of the components, then it could work easily to note how much Ethanol they would truly get pure sip. It would also mean bartenders could efficiently know what the strongest drinks are and as long as the bartender is paying attention stop serving people before they get to too high a limit.
Also, yes, Gargle Blasters should have a chance to just knock you to the ground.
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To the first point: Having them separate is better, for the reasons Ping has stated. And there shouldn't be a joint control of the main pharmaceutical portion of Chemistry as we run into many issues with the Genetics department with the same setup of joint-control. Effectively, you can't be fired as a Geneticist unless both the CMO and RD both agree, and rarely does that happen, and most of the time if one or the other wants to, the other or a higher up won't revoke their access from the one who no longer wants them working, and if it does, it severely harms the capability of the job, as well as effectively makes a half-filled position counted as filled on the crew manifest.
That being said, I also don't believe the RD would just give up the genetics department to make chemistry more localized, and the problem we still have where genetics doesn't listen to the CMO half the time would become apparent with chemistry because people would argue as long as they are doing something for research, they don't have to make medicine to actually save people. This happens with genetics being 'too busy to be bothered' researching genetic mutations for powers for the RD's side rather than cloning those who come into medical, which is their job, just because 'oh, do it yourself. It's so easy'. Effectively, if the CMO asks the genetics department to do anything, they tend to ignore the CMO because 'research', meaning most doctors should just add 'Advanced Cloning Knowledge' to their certifications because most of them have to clone people anyway as genetics won't.
Second point: No. Genetics and Virology are two different jobs in regards to what they are studying: Genetics is the study DNA strands of organic lifeforms, and Virology is studying the effects of pathogens on lifeforms. While both have uses of mutation variants, effectively bridging them together also means Virology will no longer fall to merely medical science (and effectively give RD even more control over Medbay with having joint control of Virology), so if a virus is loose on the station, the virologist could just continue researching viruses and would effectively ignore the cries for a cure (which happens already on occasion, but they only need the CMO to say they are fired to be removed). If this also was bridged and made joint, then the RD would merely have to go 'I disagree with their termination because they were researching' and they keep their job, giving another middle finger to the CMO.
Honestly, because the station is a Research Station, the RD effectively has much more control over anything that involves medical expertise than the CMO in joint divisions, which is why I'd rather avoid giving more joint divisions to the RD vs CMO.
If they got their research done and backup, they still have the other responsibility of cloning. Or, they could go take a break for a bit because it's likely they already spent at least a hour and a half working on genetic mutation research to make a perfect Structural Enzyme.
Third Point: I see both good and bad in this, but in a good way. Having something like this for medical purposes inside the storage room would allow for real training to occur, and therefore increase the overall RP to teaching people how to do medical. Effectively, there would be a simple 'protection' on it that doesn't allow you to use the machine on people whom are registered to the station (DNA, Fingerprints, ID, however it needs to be coded so that it can't normally be used to just harm people), but emagging it would allow it to harm anyone put in, not just 'humanized' subjects.
It'd give both a new way to teach people and a new tool for traitors to use, since they could just break in through the back of medical near the psychologist and use it on their subject to remove a limb or so without leaving so much of a bloody trail. Of course, they'd be risking running into someone in medical/maintenance with their target, so it'd be a higher-risk, higher-reward as you could potentially leave behind less evidence.
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pfft nerd if you can't handle 50 units of pure ethanol you're in the fucking weeb-level of wimp
I'm guessing you didn't look at the Blood-Alcohol Concentrate chart, as well. Which is cross-referenced here: http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html
50 units against 560 units of blood, if you do the full math, is about 8.92857%, which anything more than 0.25% to 0.30% would effectively kill you IRL. For easy of use, and so you don't die after a SINGLE sip (5 units against 560 is 0.892857%), I reduced the 'actual' percentages by a factor of 100, so you can actually drink. A unit is not defined in SS13 on actual size, but if we compare it against the 560 units of blood everyone normally has, we get an idea. Also, if you pull that to real standards, we are talking about some REALLY big drinks to be such a high true percentage against the size of the body.
what kind of assnerd pours 10-20-30u drinksThe reasoning to smaller drinks based on percentages is therefore covered. I'm aware you play an IPC usually (and thus alcohol wouldn't do anything to you), but considering the numbers, we have to have some baseline to what is 'safe' and 'unsafe'.
That chart would still mean everyones liver explodes form a bottle of vodka.I'm not sure of how strong each type of alcohol would be in real life, the proof they are that is, but I know there are various types. However, Space Station 13 seems to only have a single all-encompassing alcohol type (Ethanol) that all the different drinks work off of. I could well be wrong with this, and there very well may be a threshold for each different alcohol type. The chart is more generalized for alcohol in itself based on the real BAC charts.
I would also like to point out that a 50u pill, while it could knock someone out (for the duration the alcohol is at such levels in their system as to knock them out), after the first cycle would stop any liver damage (cycles once while 50u is in the system, liver damage occurs, next cycle is now less than 50u and the liver damage stops). The point of knocking someone out before they hit that level is both a body's defense mechanism to stop you for forcing yourself to drink more and to hopefully stop you from hitting the first harmful threshold.
I would also suggest, paired with the Passing out threshold, that it makes your screen go 'dark and blurry', letting you know you've reached that threshold. It wouldn't just instantly knock you out, but has a chance (perhaps high) to knock you out. The screen effect would be about as instant as it could get.
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Wiki even says 2560 right now (which is where I pulled the numbers).
http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Backstory
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It should be based on your blood-alcohol levels (BAC) paired with overall affect to your characters. Overall, there's 560 units of blood in most living organisms on the station (at least, the ones with blood). Something similar to the following chart could work:
Units of | (Estimate)
Alcohol | % BAC
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0u | 0.00%
5u | 0.01%
15u | 0.03%
20u | 0.04%
40u | 0.08%
50u | 0.10%
100u | 0.20%
Tolerance | Slurring | Falling | Pass | Liver | Lethal
None | 1u | 10u | 25u | 50u | 130u
Low | 10u | 20u | 30u | 50u | 130u
Medium | 20u | 30u | 40u | 50u | 130u
High | 25u | 35u | 45u | 50u | 130u
None: No ill effects occur whatsoever.
Slurring: Your speech becomes difficult to understand, much like how it does now when 'drunk'.
Falling: You have a random chance to 'fall over' while standing. Chance increases when moving around.
Pass: Effectively, you just pass out.
Liver: You start taking minor liver damage. If untreated over the long time, can be lethal
Lethal: You take toxin damage, which can be lethal.
Considering a 'drink' should consist of no more than 10 to 20 units of total drink, for safe purposes. This means if you set your tolerance to Medium, pretty much 'average' for people who drink around 140 - 160 pounds, and being in space it will likely hit you a bit harder (because space), 2 or 3 drinks could start doing something to you, but since alcohol slowly 'leaves' the system, it may take an extra drink or two. If you space out your drinking with conversation and food, then most people should not reach the falling down drunk phase, less they choose to set it to a tolerance of none or low. You'd really only get to the higher limits if you purposely down an entire bottle and some in an entire sitting or are force-fed a lot of drink.
The Lethal limit is up at around 0.25% to 0.28% BAC, which means you'd effectively have to try to do it to kill yourself (suicide) or be killed by someone else. The liver damage will likely kill you before the actual lethal limit would. The Liver and Lethal limits are the same across the board for balancing issues for death itself, while how 'weak' you are to alcohol for the remainder is your preference, and therefore could be a self-described difficulty factor.
Remember: Drink with buddies, never with people you cannot trust.
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As it currently stands, you can find out the 'current date' by printing out your balance statement in ATMs (and then put your ID in your hand and hit logout so no one can take your money). However, I believe what you are getting at is a progressive day system, instead of random days, in which there is sequential order, which would prove useful for star dates, making progressive stories for characters with 'this happened this day' for role-playing purposes, and for documents to be able to be more official with adding the shift's date without having to look further into the system to figure out what the shift's date is.
The biggest issue with this, however, is the continuity-error that would arise out of, say, the station getting destroyed. A single day (22 hours after the end of the shift, presuming they are still following Earth-standard time, while circling the sun of the Epsilon Eridani system) to rebuild the space station 'perfectly' would effectively be poor RP, and worse if you try saying there are more than one station at any given time that could be moved up in such a short time span.
Finding a perfect 'time' would also prove difficult considering, or would throw us further into the future than necessary and make effectively tracking station time to real time difficult for your suggested use for admins, unless a single 'day' actually has multiple shifts, and for easy of mind for the crew to make it feel somewhat normal to them in the outer reaches of human-explored space, all shifts start at 'about' noon. In this case, it would merely be easier to put today's date + 544 years, with the shift number for the day, for tracking purposes.
Example welcoming message from the game to the player:
Welcome to the NSS Cyberiad. Today's date is January 31, 2560. This is shift 11 of the day on the Cyberiad.
I put 11, because if no shifts were cut short, it would effectively be the shift starting at 11:10 PM (23:10)[Presuming first shift countdown started at 00:00/12:00 AM], and effectively be the last shift of the day, less we also change 'station time' to reflect the current time of the host, so there is 'continuity', though self-destruct/full-destruction of the station would still leave a poor RP set, which is part of why it is as it is right now and wasn't changed (other than difficulty in changing it, I'm guessing). Considering the 3 minutes in lobby, the 1 minute for end-round, the 1 minute for restart, the 1 minute of voting for transfer, the 10 minutes for non-emergency shuttles to arrive, 3 minutes to board, and 2 minutes to get to Central Command/NAS Trurl, we come up to about 21 minutes between end of shift to start of next shift. If we include this, each shift is normally 2 hours and 16 minutes with a 5 minute 'grace' period, or for easy of calculation, 2 hours and 21 minutes, a total of 141 minutes a round. There is 1440 minutes an day, so we end up with 10 full shifts a day with a possible 11th starting before the switch in days, which is only a 50 minute grace period for a potential 11th shift in a day, not including patches and other possible delays.
This, of course, would only work if Byond is even capable of pulling the 'current' date off the computer, and allowing you to select the year, if not just the month/day and set the year to itself (which would be easy to fix once a year if needed). Else, we'd have to effectively monitor the time itself and update it accordingly, which is not going to happen.
Shift 1 = 00:00; Shift 2 = 02:21; Shift 3 = 04:42; Shift 4 = 07:03; Shift 5 = 09:24; Shift 6 = 11:45; Shift 7 = 14:06; Shift 8 = 16:27; Shift 9 = 18:48; Shift 10= 21:09; Shift 11= 23:10; Shift 12 (becomes Shift 1) = 01:31
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Science, both R&D and Robotics, have both the Biohazard blast doors and shutters. Chemistry being a high-risk area could use it in the case that a lockdown of chemistry is required without locking down all of medbay. Of course, this would be the shutters would need to be both on the external and internal windows of Chemistry (that is, the ones to both the east and south).
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I would like to point out one other thing I noticed while pondering what you propose towards contraband that miners/explorers get: Are you familiar with 'Aiding and Abetting'? Certain things can be found on the Asteroid, in the Gateway, and in Space, such as pistols and full Syndicate suits. What you are proposing is these explorers are exempt from retribution for having such things, but there's an interesting clause that is understood from 'Aiding and Abetting'.
Knowingly assisting a criminal is a crime. This includes but is not limited to: Interfering with an arrest, stealing a prisoner in transit, breaking a prisoner out of the brig/prison, hiding a fugitive, providing medical care (unless paired with a large dose of sleep toxins).Sentencing is as followed: The same sentence as the original criminal.
Note it says "This includes but is not limited to:" - Hiding criminal equipment, or use thereof, can be and will likely be considered Aiding and Abetting, and Syndicate items, such as weapons and equipment, should be considered covered by this. Certain things are in-evident, such as the Red Balloon or articles of clothing (no-slip shoes, tactical turtleneck, etc), for the mere fact they can't be used for something practical. I would personally also consider the soap and cards in-evident, as well. At least in the case that no one seems you 'spawn' them out of nowhere. Witnessing someone using the PDA Uplink to get things would be witness testimony and evidence of potential link to the Syndicate.
Here's an example: You go to the gateway, it's the Xenomorph Research Facility, which has the pistol. You 'find' it (let's face it, it's going to be difficult or you purposely tried to go out to get it, so likely you meta'd it anyway). You bring it back to the station: You have two choices: Alert Security/Command that you have it or don't.
- Alerting: It is likely security will confiscate it, but by making its presence known, you will likely avoid jail time, accusations of being a traitor/terrorist, or accusations for assisting a traitor/terrorist. It is possible, though unlikely, the Head of Security or Captain will give you a permit to keep it.
- Hiding its existence: If you are caught with it, you will be charged with Possession of a Restricted Weapon, you may be accused of being a traitor (as bullet weapons outside of certain types of shotguns are associated with terrorist groups), or accused of holding onto a traitor's weapon, thus Aiding and Abetting (intentional or not), and be charged for the same crime they would have been.
Do recall, that will all Capital Crimes, you are allowed to talk with a lawyer, in private considered appropriate roleplay. However, having anything deemed only accessible to the Syndicate puts massive strain on your explanation. If it isn't yours, you hiding the evidence of Syndicate activity, wherever you found it, is arguably Aiding and Abetting. Also note that having things that are associated with antagonist groups makes you look like an antag and may lead people to believe you really are against the corporation.
If you see someone with a gun, are you not more cautious around them? If you see some with a knife, are you going to turn your back to them? Ponder that, a bit.
To clarify things, I believe a more up-to-date list of what is confirmed Syndicate or terrorist group equipment, weapons, paired with appropriate contraband should be listed.
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The part that needs to come to an end, alex, is people hiding facts about the situation. Clarification of the rules always helps, but that doesn't change what my last post stated: Notice in scrub's post he always refers to it as 'guardian'. A 'guardian' is not a traitor item, alone in information, but there are three 'guardians', which means the lack of information is giving false assumption, which is why admins look into it because people tend not to give all the information required. It was a holoparasite guardian, which as I stated before, can only be acquired via the Syndicate Uplink for traitors ICly. This also pairs that they specifically look unique based between the three forms and their role. The fact that three implanted people played basketball with the traitor and holoparasite means nothing, especially if they don't know holoparasites are in fact Syndicate technology. That would fall under the ignorance portion of RP. As far as it was brought to my attention: The 'HoPcurity' only did anything to the holoparasite, and in turn the one linked to them, as stated by the Captain's giving order.
So, about those people playing in the basketball court, all implanted. I take it one was the Blueshield and one was the ONLY 'Security Officer' (not including Head of Security, Warden, and Detective, all of which aren't SUPPOSED to be making arrests, though commonly the HoS does because it's required of them)? So, that officer in question would have also been in violation of Rule 3, but you know, they aren't the ones being questioned here. The Blueshield was with the CE, so they were technically still doing their role. My understanding, from further information, is that the three who were with the traitor were actively defending him after he was already confirmed to be a traitor to the corporation. Since the only security officer was actively defending him, then what are the crew to do? This would also count towards if Security is mindslaved via Shadowlings as well.
Mind you, there are reasonable ways to go after vigilantism in the server already: Officers can charge, still, for any and all crimes commited without Central Command, Command, or Security authorization:
- Assault (with a Deadly Weapon) for arresting someone illegally
- Possession of a (Restricted) Weapon if it's something they shouldn't have
- (Petty) Theft for taking things from their suspects
- Manslaughter/(Attempted) Murder variant on if things go south
- (Major) Trespass for being somewhere they aren't supposed to be
By adding 'Vigilantism' to Space Law, you'd be doing no more than having 'Enemy of the Corporation ' in the list of Space Law, which is just another charge that would be thrown at someone, effectively always taking them out of the round if they are caught or reported, which would be something anyone just reports for being detained or not liking someone, regardless of if the detainee was actually doing Vigilantism or defending themselves.
The point behind 'Enemy of the Corporation' is for traitors/antags to be more stealthy and careful in how they act, in my opinion. It makes it so things that can prove they are in fact working against Nanotrasen are things they have to hide: A traitor must not allow Security to see they have a Syndicate Uplink in their PDA or things they shouldn't be able to get (like certain things from said Uplink that can't be gotten just anywhere[pistol !GATEWAY SYNDICATE! vs emag !UPLINK ONLY!]), Changlings mustn't let anyone see them absorb someone's geneomes or transform, Shadowlings mustn't thrall in front of others who can call out for help or hatch in front of non-thralls.
Really, there are only a few sides that 'Enemy of the Corporation' could have a major problem with. Wizards are, by definition, in cooperation with forces against the best interest of Nanotrasen. However, it can also be questioned as they may have interests within Nanotrasen assets they may be willing to work a deal for, such as protecting someone. Vox Raiders are much the same way: They can be hostile and try to kidnap people, thus harmful to Nanotrasen assets, or trade for said assets.
In the end, failure to actually hide you are working with contacts that have hostile intents against Nanotrasen is your own fault, much like hiding you found something that could potentially belong to someone with hostile intents towards Nanotrasen is aiding and abetting: That is, hiding Syndicate equipment, then going 'I found it' AFTER you are arrested is just asking to be valid hunted, so you can yell at others for valid hunting because you really weren't an antag. That is, you know it's something an antag would have or could be linked to them OOCly, while ICly, you have choices, such as either going 'this is weird and questionable, I should probably alert Command/Security' or 'I know this is a traitor item, but I'll just hold onto it just in case' ICly. Therefore, hiding such equipment is activity that can lead people to believe you are against Nanotrasen, therefore can and will likely be called out as a traitor. In these cases, you caused it to happen to yourself and want us to bail you out. However, if there is absolutely no evidence that states you are an antag, then this would lead us to believe it could be meta, which is why we investigate. However, if we clearly see there is evidence that they could see or could lead people to believe you are an antag and you say there's nothing, well then issues start showing up.
Valid hunting can be defined, in many ways that our community uses it, as using knowledge that something is connected to an antag to arrest someone and charge them for being an Enemy of the Corporation without any actual evidence that they are in fact an antag. This can spread to committed a murder without any direct evidence, though logic would lead you to believe they did commit the murder, as an example. The only 'proof' is the logic and process of elimination. No 'hard' evidence.
What you seem to be proposing as a rule for Valid Hunting is that if you have no proof they are actually an antag, you can't touch them, even on suspicion for proper investigation. In real life, as seems to be referenced a lot, if the police have suspicion you have ill intent, they will get a warrant for a search, detain and take you down to the precinct for questioning, etc. Sort of the point behind Code Green on Space Station 13. A higher code level, however, allows more immediate action.
Why have I gone over these previous points? I have to demonstrate the point behind searching for information and not leaving anything out. The situation focuses on the HoP acting like a Security Officer in only attacking the Holoparasite and/or assisting in an otherwise officer-less Security force (considering the single officer was ignoring the Captain's Orders), and the complaint against said HoP is that it isn't their role. However, they spent very little time actually being HoPcurity from what I could see. The fact they stopped an antag because Security otherwise wouldn't also means Security wasn't doing it's actual role, because they saw nothing wrong with the antag, when clearly a Holoparasite is a Syndicate-only equipment, and can only be acquired via the Uplink. Someone else just happened to call it out, after from my understanding the Holoparasite attacked and destroyed another borg. I don't know how much more clear it can be.
As for players killing antags: This is also covered in Space Law, under the Section of Capital offenses - 401 Murder. Illegal executions are classified as murder. Unless the Captain strictly orders all crew to kill said antag on sight, which is still under Standard Operating Procedure the last-choice option, detainment is the only choice unless they pose it impossible to detain them or are in a situation you can't detain them in some way: If there is even a slight chance to detain them, you must detain them or you can be charged with murder. Non-security characters are encouraged to call for Security or detain if they can, avoiding direct violent conflict less they have no choice. That includes beating them to the ground as the last choice in detainment. However, once they are on the ground, get them to medical to keep them alive if you can and have security take it from there. Equipment is NOT covered for this, however, as murder of equipment is logically incorrect. Thus they should be destroyed if at all possible.
I believe Shadeykins was pointing out policing people around, in terms of rules: It's not for players to enforce, but administrative staff to enforce. Security's job is to enforce Space Law, wherein things that are included being their jurisdiction. However, it would be for Shadeykins to clarify this.
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This discussion keeps bypassing a very important part about what brought this up to matter, and really needs to come to an end. From everything I know, this started because the Head of Personnel attacked a holoparasite guardian, was attacked by a borg, and systematically destroyed the borg in self-defense. Now, people keep using the argument that you can't tell that a 'guardian' is a traitor item, therefore is valid hunting. However, I have some bad news for you all:
http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Guardian
Guardians can be obtained through three ways as we all know.
One of these ways is mining, which anyone who happens to encounter a scarab egg on the asteroid can cherish and enjoy for a round.
You are right to say that a guardian can be gathered from the mining asteroid, and, yes, it's a scarab... However, that's where the misconceptions start spreading, so it's time to clarify this:
There are three types: Spirit, Holoparasite, and Scarab.
Spirit is acquired via tarot cards for the Space Wizard Federation.
Holoparasite is acquired via the Syndicate Uplink for traitors.
Scarab is acquired via eggs usually found on asteroids.
Notice something? The one that was called out, and considered kill-on-sight by the Captain, was a Holoparasite (as the name and examine state). I understand it's cheap. However, as it was pointed out, people can choose to know or not know what the Syndicate has access to, as we are Medium RP. Just because you think people shouldn't know doesn't mean they can't know. And, the examination are a dead giveaway. Hiding it behind merely the word 'guardian' gives people the wrong idea about the situation, because guardian is generalized. The specific guardian information must be given, and it was specifically a Holoparasite Guardian, and therefore Syndicate Technology.
As for the Head of Personnel attacking the Holoparasite, as stated before: We are a Medium RP server, and knowing a single department outside of your current one is considered fine. Rule 3, especially for Security, would be actively doing security's work. Attacking what the Captain has considered a threat to the station that security, specifically the borg in question, did not, is what's in question here. The borg, with Robocop, did not believe it was evil (even though it's obviously Syndicate Technology), brings a bit more to question, though in this instant the borg choose not to attack the Holoparasite as it did not see the Holoparasite as a threat/evil. The borg, however, attacked the Head of Personnel, with disablers, after the Captain gave his order. The Head of Personnel retaliated by destroying the borg, as the borg was attempting to stop the Head of Personnel from following the Captain's orders to destroy the Holoparasite that security , which was also extremely shortstaffed, either refused to or couldn't handle.
Since you work for Nanotrasen, protecting Nanotrasen assets from what is considered an active threat can be considered everyone's job. Whether you choose to or not is your roleplaying choice, unless your job role specifically states it's your job. That, however, does not immune you to IC consequences. If Central Command orders everyone to attack a blob, ICly you are contractually obligated to do so, or there will be severe IC consequences for refusal. Self-preservation includes preservation of your environment for your own safety. Running away isn't always going to work and, while is acceptable RP in most cases, sometimes needs to be avoided to protect more than yourself. The Captain considered the Holoparasite, that from what I've heard was attacking and destroyed another borg (therefore Nanotrasen assets), an active threat.
As for vigilantism: There is a fine line. Usually if you are doing vigilantism, you're breaking rule 3, specifically if you are anything but an assistant, clown, or mime. And even then, is something that Security or Command should be able to handle ICly. However, that doesn't necessarily mean be a vigilante on round start because 'ANTAGS! MUST GET THEM!' Consider round start there are no antags ICly, therefore do your job, act your actual role until there is reason to be a vigilante. If there is plenty of security, or lack of, ask to join or work with them. Otherwise, Security may likely end up arresting you, as stated before, for assault, possession of weapons, etc. There are certain ways around these ICly to a degree, but that relies on YOU figuring out what to ask to the right people, or knowing what to say.
As for valid hunting: This has an extremely fine line. As stated before, going after antags just because this game includes antags does not mean you should gear up every round, on round start, to fight antags. Not even Security should be doing this. There are security measures you can do that have IC merit to them, such as removing the tracking beacon off the bridge because it's a massive security breach hazard. Don't need a random scientist teleporting onto my bridge when I'm the Captain or guarding the heads as Blueshield. Same towards certain things the AI can do as added security measures. However, in general station access, you can't just start locking things down because 'ANTAGS SOMEWHERE BREAK IN'. Half the time, it isn't even going to be an antag breaking into these areas, even though they aren't supposed to.
As for Code 404: This also tends to piss a lot of people off, because the punishment is for what you are, not what you did as someone has stated elsewhere. Of course, if this was out the window, and then you revealed 'I'M AN ANTAG', you can't be touched, then people watched you closely, you'd complain 'VALID HUNTERS' because they now KNOW you are an antag and are actively trying to catch you commit a crime. It just becomes a HUGE mess and we receive twice the number of valid hunt complaints. Really, if you know someone is a criminal, or even have a suspicion they will commit a felonious act, are you just going to turn your back to them? Most people I know are going to keep an eye out... So, you'd have more valid hunting anyway.
tl;dr Too bad, read it.
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A fellow admin (name will remain anonymous less they choose to confirm) even agreed that a permament ban was in order, considering it did make a huge impact and ruined the round for all the cultists, as you were revealing them, especially the ones who were on the bridge with you.
This, in my opinion, breaks Rules 3 and 6 as you weren't playing the role given to you (specifically properly), cultist (they would never reveal their presence without first consulting their entire faction, and even then would remain in the shadows), and were not playing responsibly in that you ratted out, while still a cultist (and even if they deconverted you, you wouldn't really remember anything while being a cultist), all other cultists.
As I'm sure I told you, you can file a ban appeal in the appropriate forums. I understand you are upset as you did apologize then. However, I felt that appropriate procedure should still be followed. I was merely observing that round, myself.
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Name: Theodore Gregory
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Race: Human
Blood Type: AB-
General Occupational Role(s):
- Medical: Chief Medical Officer; Medical Doctor (Surgeon)
- Command: Captain; Chief Medical Officer
Biography: Theodore Gregory was born on Earth in 2532 in a country of North America. Most of his childhood is unknown, but unconfirmed sources indicate an average upbringing. In 2550, after the [REDACTED] Incident, Theodore left Earth for Mars, being involved in the incident. We cannot confirm or disprove that Theodore Gregory is his real name due to this event. However, he was able to lay low and go to university to major in Medical Sciences, as well as minoring in Law. In the 2557, [REDACTED] found him. As he attempted to flee, he ran into NanoTrasen Official [REDACTED] who offered sanctuary and hid him from his pursuers. After learning a bit of the knowledge Theodore had in medicine, [REDACTED] offered Theodore a job in Epsilon Eridani on the NanoTrasen Science Station Cyberiad, far from [REDACTED].
It is noted that Theodore does wish to one day return home to Earth. Until it is safe for him to do so, however, he is happy to work for NanoTrasen, as they have protected him these previous two years.
Qualifications:
- Moderate Knowledge of Standard Operating Procedures
- Moderate Knowledge of Space Law
- Moderate Weapon Training
- PHD in Medical Sciences (Surgery Major)
- Basic Virology Training
- Moderate Chemistry Knowledge
*It should be noted that Theodore has knowledge exceeding the previously noted that seems to show when needed, but isn't readily available at all times.*
Employment Records:
- Pesho Hospital: 2554 - 2557
- NanoTrasen, NSS Cyberiad: 2557 - Present
Security Records: No previous record of criminal behavior or current record of charges.
Medical Records: Has shown a repeated heart condition with no records showing how it keeps coming back in the past. The condition disappeared a few months after working on the NSS Cyberiad with the advanced treatments available. It is recommended occasional check-ups be done to verify the condition has not reappeared.
Personnel Photo (Appearance text):
Commendations [only to be added by admin]:
Reprimands [only to be added by admin]:
Other Notes:
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It is actually fairly easy to code, pulling much of the coding straight from the AI's side of things, and modifying it into a list system so that no single holographic projector hosts more than 1 hologram at a time. Then, you set it up so a each holographic projector is in a full list of projectors. The hard part comes from sprites, as you'd have to make holographic sprites for most outfits and all player builds/variants (in part or in whole). A ghost sprite could be used to test it, however. That is of course presuming the game doesn't already have a function to automatically make a holographic variant of something to be loaded into RAM for a short amount of time.
Variables:
- var/Real_Name //So it knows what it's looking for when the hologram ends.
- var/ID_Name //This is what is sent to the receiving hologram for the name of the person. This is the name on the ID of the person sending a hologram (For T's)
- var/In_Use //Both the sending and receiving holograms would have it changed to true when in use. This makes it so a hologram cannot be sent to one that is being used to digitize someone, so to speak.
This is not everything, but could help start such an addition to what already exists. On a side note, a name change of the holographic projectors would be fitting, instead of stating more AI-only.
Aliens-Style Self Destruct Procedure
in Suggestions
Posted
The onboard station device is meant to not move once armed, in the design I have. Once it's armed, it's priming the station's explosive mechanism/bluespace mumbo-jumbo. Realistically, it'd have its own internal power source, so that really wouldn't be a problem, so perhaps not the need for power. Effectively, once Code Delta is declared, the AI would already have a program inside it (but it'd now make more sense, as it'd actually not be the nuke itself the AI is hacking, but the overall self-destruct system. Right now, it's just the nuke the AI is hacking into, which would be impossible in its current state... My immersion of the AI breaking all laws of physics to hack something that it has absolutely no way of hacking..).