Twinmold
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Posts posted by Twinmold
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Vice versa the antag doing well could lead them to easily taking you down if you don't hit them when the crew is still at it's strongest and able to fight them, too. Yeah, the crew will be going after you, too, but since they'll be split between two threats, it can make it easier for both sides and the fallout of the event means easier to take down the other antag before they can focus on you solely.
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First off, thank you for making a complaint.
The end round ERT was called in due to the understanding of a virus onboard the Cyberiad (it would seem it was a hidden virus, at that) that was harmful in nature to prevent the virus from escaping to the best knowledge of the ERT. The ERT who shot you (which was yes an admin) thought the tesla zaps were coming from you, something that should have been obvious not to have been but I also didn't see the exact situation, as I was monitoring the entrance of the shuttle rather than the main shuttle itself.
To be honest, a rejuv was not something I thought about at the time when it came up, as my first response was delete the tesla that shouldn't have been there in the first place and how the hell it got there. The end of the round was extremely hectic, considering the numerous other violations that were also occurring at the same time. It wasn't that rejuv was being denied, it literally hadn't crossed my mind. If anything, your complaint is targeted towards me. Had I known the actual situation going on and it been on my mind, a rejuv would be standard.
I do apologize that this had adverse affect on your round.
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Antags using powerful methods is one reason why we have ERT, a powerful counter (when done right). It STILL comes down to an admin going 'ok, should we send in the ERT and what kind'? If the antags responsible for getting the ERT called aren't being cheesy as all hell and the situation isn't dire, we normally reject ERTs or put a delay on sending it. When they are just wrecking the station and causing mass amounts of chase or chaos, we can send one in quickly. The 'difficulty' of antag is partly based on how aggressive the antag is in the first place. We can adjust the difficulty by some degree in some cases (with example an ERT or SIT, to counter or help them).
Stating that just because someone gets to choose to get into the mid-round antag position and only has the knowledge of antags doesn't change something: They know WHERE the antags are or their plan or a combination of information. It doesn't stop them going after that antag or their base of operation or where they might have hidden something. It's still meta-knowledge, and the only difference in appearance (but it is still the same thing as an under concept) is it looks like a grudge instead of a valid hunt, but that's because YOU are also an antag. In essence, it's the exact same thing. You could be going after that person because they are an antag, but have plausible deniability because you are also an antag.
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I would like to point something out, then... What are you situating as 'valid hunting'? The point of security ERT is the exact same as security in general, with a focus on bringing an end to whatever is causing the chaotic situation in general. Valid hunting is, in general, to find any particular reason to consider a person valid as an antag to be stopped, brigged, and/or executed. As I stated prior, the only difference between those coming from dead chat and in-game is the potential for meta-knowledge to leak, but regardless of that, that same knowledge can be used in any randomly assigned mid-round antag roll, too, in which they focus on those who are antags, either to stop or help them, which would be the same basic concept in either case to take validity to hunt them, either to aid or harm them.
From a role-play perspective, the crew aren't supposed to have to fend for themselves in all situation, and in fact in rare situations should they have to. Take consideration of new players, being thrown into this situation where there is no more backup available. A steep learning curve has just become even steeper, and is likely to keep newer players from coming into the game because a difficult game is even hard to get into because suddenly someone just killed all of security and the only ones who can stop them (and probably failing by this point) is the crew. We don't want to support antags having a harder time or killing security with the only issue then being crew, which as stated before, isn't going to really stop them. But at the same time, it's already a huge random number generation chance against them because it takes one crew to stop them, but they have to be successful in every instance to beat the crew. By limiting the number of appropriate people to counter the antags, it evens the playing field between the crew and antags in a number of cases, and supports more interesting tactics rather than just the common ones.
I can still call out Rule 5 (Play your role) because people aren't supposed to be going against antags if they aren't security (with rare exceptions) and antag-fighting isn't fun for everyone, nor is it always interesting to see the station fall to chaos. It's more work for admins as it, as well, because now you have the antags calling out the crew as valid hunters instead of the appropriate people they expect to be against them.
We should be going for fun for the whole, and much of that is by the role you select to play: If you really want to be the counter to antags, go security, not scientist, engineer, medical, etc. Each person has fun in a different way, which is why having so many available roles and goals for them is good, and at the same time, this is a role-playing game: You shouldn't be playing for the mechanics of the game, but rather the story you build. Most of our higher rated rounds are when people have more role-play interaction rather than antag interaction, though some of the highest and best dealt karma given to players are those antags that role-play and make the round generally more interesting by not killing people, and making the death of the people they kill more interesting for the victim.
The ERT is also capable of bring people back into the round who have died for various causes, and people in observe and dead chat, especially in the long run when an ERT would normally be called, makes up a large percentage of players on an average shift (connected or disconnected because dead). With how it's worded, it sounds like you feel every ERT is a valid hunting group, which to be honest sounds like a 'I died to ERT, please remove them' approach. If valid hunting is an actual issue with ERT, we need to catch them and have them reported on the case when it happens so we can better investigate. At the same time, we can find out the validity of the situation (did they legitimately have IC evidence to go after them person or is it actually meta-knowledge), in which we can handle proper judgement and punishments. In this case result, valid hunting is only finding evidence, and how hard they push for that evidence. It's a vanilla position to the game and something that will not and/or should not be removed.
We as admins still have final say on if an ERT is even sent to the station, and therein there's still the chance for rounds to go much more astray than expected. Removing ERT would be removing a very real response to a situation from Central Command and removes a very powerful tool for admins to try to calm a situation if we feel the chaos needs to lower. We are to find and adjust the level of order and chaos in a round depending on how we feel the shift should move, same with seriousness and silliness. If we just had a very high-chaos round, we're likely to try to make the next round more calm, and that could include sending an ERT if chaos starts to build beyond an acceptable level for the goal of the round. We have many options, and there will not be the removal of such options.
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Your ECT already exists in terms of Code Epsilon. We as admins still pick if a squad is sent to clean up or not, before or after the event is called: They are not mutual inclusive of one another. It doesn't change ID access (which is something you can't change since it's attached to the card in the form of a chip, otherwise command would just have a database they could access to remotely change anyone's ID without issue). ERTs have been a part of SS13 for a very long time, and the use of meta-game knowledge is punishable on an administrative level. Obviously, not everything is perfect and can be proven, though numerous things can be. At the same time, you can actually imagine the main sources of problems would ALREADY be known to the ERT through camera monitoring and briefing of the situation, so the 'big picture' could already been known. Removing ERT is a poor move and punishes players even more because of the idea that people always know what's going on and use that knowledge, consciously or or sub-consciously. We have trust in our player base to follow the rules and be trusted not to use certain information. We enforce the rules against these players when it's found they have violated the rules and the trust we've given them.
As for valid hunters in general, it doesn't stop either side: Be it from dead chat or in-game, the concept of a valid hunter is the exact same, and unchanged. The only difference is the amount of knowledge they have from a meta-game perspective, which is not valid hunting, but meta-gaming. You're suggestion seems to stem from a common idea of no one should have any meta-knowledge and be able to play the round itself because no one can be trusted, which is actually of poor form to enforce when at the end of the day, this is also just a game.
Do we have rules to make things more fair for players? Yes.
Do we enforce these rules to the extent that we find fair, rather than just the word? Yes.
Should we punish everyone for the issues of the few? No.
Should we stop people having a chance to rejoin on mere speculation of the group rather than the individual? No.
Should we remove the ERT because of the potential of valid hunters? No.Otherwise, why not just remove every possible item or method that allows for valid hunting in the first place merely because of how it's used? You wouldn't have a game left, to be honest. ERTs have been part of the game for a long time, and removing ERT isn't going to make it any better, it'll actually support antagonists ALWAYS killing off security since it'll just come down to the ramble of crew against them after that, something we actually have been trying to get away from. We have been pushing for antagonists not to kill off security and crew not to go against the antagonists themselves. ERT is a nice intermediary as if there is a lack of security, the round doesn't just end (say the round starts with virtually no security). We have a chance to call an ERT if security doesn't fill up in a reasonable time and things start getting chaotic, such as if a bunch of people are dying but don't feel a shuttle is an appropriate course of action. This way, people have a chance of getting back into the round more likely than just mid-round antag roll (especially if killed early or selected observer) so they don't have to sit and wait an hour and a half to two hours just to get back in. It's more than about the letter of the law/rules but also the enjoyment and fun of the game to players.
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Before adding these to any sort of map (I was already going to use the directional signs we have but don't use for Cyberiad to make finding your way easier in Ragnarok), we'd need to ensure these are something we want. For example, perhaps provide some pictures with placement thoughts for the Cyberiad (just get a picture of the map, then paste the sign in a layer over it, merge the layers, then show us the end-result) so we can know if it'll look good. It wouldn't be hard to add a little bit of darkening around the exterior of the signs to make them pop a little bit better (just inside the white lining). Make the visuals, then get Kyet's, Elysian's, Free's, and False's attentions.
They look nice, but we need to see practical application ideas to decide if we want them actually added to the code.
From a personal standpoint, I can only see the practically of Security (for use in the main lobby), Medical (again, main lobby), Cargo (once again, main lobby), Science (to denote main access), and Engineering (again, denote main access). Command doesn't really need this (there are two entrances and having too many signs could be distasteful, though just outside the main accesses in the short hallways could work) and Service is too spread out to make it practically to have.
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I suggest taking a proper look at what 'lawyers' actually do. They do help settle disputes, they do help clear up legal terms with the crew, they do look into complaints (lawyers for companies, for example, really do this to figure out potential harm and counter it if possible). That is, the title Lawyer is actually perfectly fine for what it stands for, it's just people forget that lawyers do more than just trials, even in the real world. They are there to help answer any questions someone might have and settle disputes (preferably without going to court as then they don't have to put in all the extra work and still get paid pretty well).
Public Defender isn't something that really should be here, merely for the fact that Public Defender is actually picked from the crew at large when there AREN'T any Internal Affair Agents or Lawyers. Public Defender is the one that I feel gives the confusion, since it sounds like protect everyone from shitcurity.
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Just because there are bad Internal Affairs Agents doesn't mean removal of the titles is necessary. The main job of Internal Affairs ISN'T just looking into security, but ALL station complaints in regards to peer-verse-peer basis. The second job is ensuring Space Law and Standard Operating Procedure is being followed through for Security appropriately for the situation when a valid complaint comes up. Lastly is trials when security has nothing more than circumstantial evidence rather than hard undeniable evidence (hence why trials are so rare, there's VERY few cases this ever applies and trials take a long time to set up). The Internal Affairs guide even tells them that them getting in the way of security or being overbearing will lead to their access to security being revoked by the Head of Security, hence meaning security would have every right to arrest them in that case. They retain their access as long as they aren't getting in the way. From a legal standpoint, they should only really be getting involved when it's a Capitol-level offense or permanent detention worthy. Otherwise, if they wish to talk to a prisoner, they must do so after the prisoner is already in the cell, presuming they are not told they can't by the Warden or higher.
Are trials rare, yes. But lawyers and public defenders aren't just 'trial monkeys': They look out for the best interest of the crew and company. Security is crew, too, and people tend to forget that. If someone is being an utter shit and not getting the message clear through IC means after multiple incidents, adminhelp: They might just end up getting job-banned from Internal Affairs and having their contract terminated.
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@Rurik
I have yet to decide where I want to put the AI, though there are both good and bad reasons to move the AI to the station itself. Current AI is actually not that hard to repair when terminated, and moving the core is very simple. The AI being off station gives it an extra layer of security against MOST antags trying to take it offline, but more input about if we should move it station side would be appreciated from a lot more community members, as right now I was intending to make it a bit easier for security to access by putting the satellite access connected to a main hall near security.
Making the labor camp shuttle closer to the prison wing would give it more visual, and likely more use, so we'll have to see. A camera monitor meant to just monitor the labor camp might be a good addition for watching it.
@Ziiro
Having an auto-lathe in direct access to the crew could be a good or bad thing, as it makes things that are uncommon much more common. This includes ammo for some guns. I'd like to hear more feedback from the community about this. As for tele-comms, that's remaining off station, though will likely be changed a little bit.
For robotics, I could add a second OR table, add the 'space' for mech storage (one for medical, one for security) as well as more borg chargers (one in security at least, one down by cargo, still one in engineering). Robotics will be right next to medical, so there won't be need to add one to medical itself. There would also need to be one near arrivals, perhaps the security checkpoint.
@Dinarzad
I can change medical a little bit, possibly move the CMO's office a little bit. However, I'm not sure how well that'll go overall. I'll see what I can do. However, I do feel it's also unnecessary in that the items the CMO normally has are ALWAYS on the CMO (it's probably the only full set that you should always have with you). However, putting the psychiatrist up front might be nice, but having the patient ward right there also supports him checking up on patients with break downs. Since his office overlooks a main hall of medical, he'll immediate be more prominent, rather than being in the back of medical like the Cyberiad.
The Detective and Chaplain, in current design, would have to go through maintenance. Both should be talking to reception first, anyway, so medical knows they are there rather than just waltzing into the morgue because they can, so doing it this way makes it more suspicious of them if they do access through maintenance, but also supports vampires being able to get blood without resorting to having to stun/cuff/kill every time. Breaking into the morgue still requirements them, at least until they can jaunt, opening the door, which would be immediately noticeable to genetics and anyone in the cloning room.
@EvadableMoxie
My main character is actually a doctor major, and I've spent a LOT of time in medical over the last year and nine months. Overall, I'm trying to make something that looks nice but also still works functionally.
You are right, I should increase the little hallway there a little more, or add in another way in on the opposite side (which would be smarter, honestly, as it moves medical up slightly and adds more space overall for medical expansion in the future). The break room and CMO's office should be moved down one, which works well in clearing up the main hallway. The Operating Rooms are smaller as some of the items inside are not necessary. It is possible, however, to make them one tile wider without affecting the maintenance too much (push it out one more) which would get rid of the 2x2 wall section by the power substation. The back room is a pre-operation room, ICly to get a patient ready for surgery proper, as well as including more basic items and patient personal closets for their gear to protect their gear from the random greytide just walking it. It's the say for having the patient personal closets in cloning. The back room also makes it possible for antagonists to steal some medical supplies or attempt to steal someone/give antags a drop location for people. Overall, that room is ONLY for some extra equipment, roller beds, and RP-wise preparing a patient proper for surgery.
For chemistry, that's not much an issue as even in current chem they just break the windoor and, boom, they are in. Don't even need to enter medical proper. Nothing changes from that, as no one should be entering medical storage anyway if they aren't a doctor or chemist. This just makes moving medicines that much easier. We also don't want to keep the design the same, so this gives more risk to the CMO not monitoring chemistry if they unlock it, which they shouldn't be doing anyway.
The extra space for cloning would help with adding/upgrading cloning as well as processing bodies, since it's right there with the morgue, instead of across the hall. I will not be adding a third operating room, but the plan is to add a full surgery crate inside the storage room in the back of medical, in case tools are stolen or medical needs to set up another operating table somewhere (get creative!). 2 sleepers is enough, as they also get 2 inside their personal escape pod! Mind you, the pod itself IS public access, but I could possibly add a lock for it that requires someone with a medical access ID to at least unlock the airlock (or just hack it open!). Thoughts on this, people?
I should add in an examination room, but it's also not quite necessary as is, as it is almost never used. Depending on how I go about it, I could make medical sprawl a little bit more north, moving science a bit more to the east. The one near the paramedic's office is meant for critical patients coming in, so they can quickly be scanned, stablized, and then moved immediately to surgery. That way they don't have to look through the front of medical, which is a bit more fore in the station.
Of course, this is all still a work in progress. Security-side of the station will also have a small docking area, one for an escape shuttle pod over there and a second ERT access point.
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As it has started to come to be known, I've recently taken up the mantle of making a new station to better support large job distribution and to have more space to better spread the large number of people currently present on the NSS Cyberiad. It's design features many things present in other servers, things that many people have requested be done for a new server map. The common complaint with Metastation I've heard isn't that the map is large, for it is, and does have things in its design that I support, including a new layout, but that it's chalk full of bugs, has 'too much' making it seem more crowded than necessary, and that the map seems put together too much like a game of Tetris. My understanding of it is that Metastation itself is not an original map, as it was taken elsewhere, and was being re-purposed for Paradise. This has lead to a number of inconsistencies, in remapping, adding things, and reworking systems, having lead to the 'too stuffed/crowded' feel and bugs that have been being handled by Fethas to make the map workable, something many people agree would be good as we'd have another working map, able to change the meta of the game slightly by change maps occasionally.
The intention of the construction of Ragnarok Station isn't to replace the NSS Cyberiad, but to create a new station to have a new play style through the usage of the map itself, and spice up the game with a fresh environment. Mechanically, only a couple of things change, and these changes are only map-related rather than code related. One such change is giving each department their own power substation, rather than all departments running off the main grid. What this does is allow a few different checks and modifications to the way admins can interact with a department as well as antagonists going after a department. Before, if you cut the power, it's going to start knocking out pwer to the entire station, and there wasn't a 'safe' way to do so short of breaking into engineering and turning off the SMES machines, otherwise you'd need gloves or a power outage to take power lines down or break into a department with ease, presuming the engine or solar arrays were not hot-wired to the grid. With the addition of department substations, you can, as long as you know the wires before-hand to break into a substation through the doors, simply turn off the SMES to the department and watch as the APCs slowly drain. With a power-sink, you don't have the exact same freedom, however, that you had before, but you can quickly drain any department of all power rather than having to slowly drain the entire station just to get to the one room you were after. Hooking up a power-sink to the main grid would deny all departmental SMES machines any input of power and knock out all of service rather quickly. It gives a more focused attack on a department rather than general station, excluding doing so to the main power grid.
This adds an additional check, though, for admins in doing so, as it has been tossed about to be able to see how much a department takes in actual power, to see where we'd like to increase power usage of machinery to make power slightly more realistic, such as increasing the power costs to use a cloning machine. How much is reasonable, however, remains to be seen and requires see what the actual affect on a department this would have. In doing so, upgrading SMES machinery will also be more of a probably venture for science and engineering, and could even support making it so that departments are more likely to adjust their input/output ratios to support their department or turn non-critical systems off to conserve power, changing the dynamic of the game's engineering systems, a thought that has been entertained recently.
I am currently looking for any suggestions people have for what they'd like to see in this new station, design-wise. Once I have the time, I'll add some pictures of the layout of various areas I have so far. I'm not saying I'm taking all suggestions, but if I like one, I'll see if I can implement it. Same for changing anything that is already laid out, as I want to have the station layout ready before I do any major item additions and what have you other than piping, wires (and APCs), doors, and 'general' appliances (lights, light switches, fire alarm, air alarms, etc) before adding in the major tables, objects, etc, so we know how an area will look before we put the final touches in and get adjustments out of the way.
https://github.com/Twinmold93/Paradise/tree/RagnarokStation
Some current points of notice are:
- Polaris Docks: Escape and arrivals are both on the same side of the station. You can still bomb Docks 1 and 2 while making it possible to leave the arrivals shuttle between Dock 3 and 4 (bombing Dock 2 will make Dock 3 unsafe, but leave Dock 4 untouched).
- More Maintenance: Maintenance tunnels around the station are generally larger than now, in they sprawl more and have more nooks and crannies. More rooms and more space for construction for both engineers and crew (with permits)!
- Departmental Substations: Changing the mechanics of power via just a map change, departments now have their own power sources, fed by the main grid. Now, you can cut the power to an individual department or just ignore safety regulations and hook up the department to the main grid.
- Port and Starboard Pod Bays: Highly requested by many people was making the mechanic more directly able to interact with crew, by giving them more direct access to the very crew. Making the mechanics office directly adjacent to the Starboard Pod Bay gives them just that, but now you also get a pod bay on the Port side so you don't have to go all the way around just to enter the station!
- No More Engineering and Science Outposts: In this design, the engineering outpost is no longer implemented, leaving many to wonder "Why?" In a sad truth, it serves no actual purpose and is practically unused other than for antagonist, much like the Science Outpost. In that regard, both are not being included. This is, however, PENDING in design, as I may add in the Science Outpost to be for Xenobiology and/or Toxins Testing, making the station itself have less science on it. In the case of Nations, this would mean Science's direct weakness would be Cargo. Depending on necessity, the Labor Camp may also not be added back in.
- More Escape Ways: With the change of where the general port of the station is, where the arrivals and escape shuttle are, it'd make sense for there to be more larger pods on the station, capable of carrying crew away in case of emergencies. As such, medical and security both get a public-access large escape pod each, opposite sides of the station from each other. Makes moving the injured and hardened criminals safer.
- With More Escapes Means More Entrances: As the station is designed around having more access points to it, it'd make sense for the Emergency Response Team to also get at least one more point of entry. Not only can they dock all the way down at Dock 1, they can also dock right next to security. This changes the balance a bit by giving them options, rather than just being awaited all the time at Arrivals.Naming Scheme (Norse Mythology):
- Central Command, NAS Odin
- Main Station, NSS Ragnarok
- Tele-Comms, NXS Hermoth- Escape Shuttle, NTV Vidar
- Cargo Shuttle, NTV Freya
- Syndicate Base, SRB Loki
- Syndicate Nuclear Shuttle, STV Tyr*SLB = Syndicate Response Base
* STV = Syndicate Transport VesselCurrent plan is to turn the derelict station into an overgrowth situation, named Yggdrasil. The asteroid itself would be named Jormungandr due to its general hostility and size.
Current Layouts include:
- Arrivals: https://i.imgur.com/uqvTbng.png
- Cargo: https://i.imgur.com/GUnW1Tr.png
- Chapel, Library, and Visitor Dormitories: https://i.imgur.com/gKMvYv0.png
- Cryo Dorms, Holo-Room, and Locker Room: https://i.imgur.com/JuOtyU1.png
- Engineering: http://i.imgur.com/N4ApWJn.png
- Medical: https://i.imgur.com/vCGmCkR.png
- Science: https://i.imgur.com/rZqtG65.png
- Security: https://i.imgur.com/yetF7B1.pngThe main station (z1) overall layout is pending and being reviewed to take a look at the station layout overall. Some rooms are fully decked out (minus pipes), some have just a few things, but both of these are few. Looking for feedback, including if I should move toxins testing to the asteroid to replace the science outpost. Of course, if Lavaland gets ported fully, I will have to update the asteroid again to allow it to work, but that's a necessary evil. Otherwise, I will be taking the current asteroid map and stripping the science outpost more likely than not. Once we decide what we are doing with Lavaland, we'll see what happens.
There is no turbine in this station design, though there is space near engineering for a Thermal-Electric Generator (TEG), including much of a burn chamber. The space vented room adjacent is used to make the cold loop, but you have to do it yourself. So get creative.
Got questions, ask!
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No further response in over a week. Moving to resolved.
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Trying to pair traitors and changelings as 'the effective same antag, just with different support' is wrong. Traitors ARE supposed to be, for most cases, stealth. While changelings SHOULD be stealthy, they are not limited the same way as the very nature of a changeling is to get as much DNA as possible, up to and including killing other changelings for THEIR DNA sample packs (after all, you get all the DNA they took if you take theirs, if I remember correctly, via the husking ability). They are able to get that DNA very simply from the DNA sting, but saying they are limited to only the bare minimum takes out half of the point of what changelings are supposed to be doing.
It's actually relatively easy to find a changeling, especially if they aren't a 'good' changeling, like your example. Prints are, after all, left on husked bodies if I do recall, and if they fail to hide those prints/change their own identity, and security/the detective specifically is keen on tracking down and plotting out the traces, they can actually pinpoint a changeling from a group of people. Blood on the victim, such as on their weapons or other defensive items, can also lead to the identity of the changeling when they were attacked, which does give the detective a lead. A good detective, with enough thought and effort, can track down changelings. Normally they just have to prove the perp did it. With changelings, they need to do a lot of investigating, and are your best weapon tracking them down. That is presuming the changeling is being very careful about it. And if the changeling is being too 'active', they'll likely get caught before the detective finishes their investigation.
This 'changelings can't be found out' is kind of bad. They can be found out much like a traitor can, but are just a bit harder to keep full track of, due to shape-shifting. The difference is proving they are in fact a changeling, which the Detective would have to have a pretty conclusive report to verify or there be witnesses to them doing changeling things.
Changelings are usually given extra sway as husking IS a valid tactic for them, and they could even use the form in question to blend into a situation that may prove favorable for them. I merely wish I saw more changelings actually using the forms and showing they deserve to be going to that extent. The issue is how hard it is to 'act' like certain people, especially if you've never interacted with them before. You need to study up on them first.
P.S. There is a way to find out if someone IS a changeling outside of what I noted., but it's a trade secret. You'll have to find out yourself what it is yourself.
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Point 1) It is recommended to, if you can, do so using the fax machine. It allows you to also provide actual evidence in a lot more easy, as you can send all the evidence you need in a singular fax report (paper stack), which is actually VERY useful for us. If they can get to an IAA, handling it via fax is better. Otherwise, the person in question may just adminhelp directly if they cannot get a hold of an IAA, the IAA is ignoring them, or there is no IAA at all, also applying to Magistrate and NanoTrasen Representative.
Point 2) You can technically also talk to the Captain, Magistrate, and NanoTrasen Representative. Captain is the Head of Security's boss, Magistrate is to ensure the law is being followed (and IAA's boss), and the NanoTrasen Representative is the next best person to get a hold of the Captain if the Captain isn't listening. If these people are busy, unavailable, or not responsive, then directly messaging Central with a full report is wise. Otherwise, a cursory fax while you get in contact with one of the others to let the Department of Internal Affairs, NAS Trurl, know of the issue. If it grabs an admins attention, it's possible an admin will respond directly, but having too much could make us not read through it, especially if we know someone else on the station (like the Captain) is already handling it.
Point 3) Space Law and Standard Operating Procedure are both subject to nullification under extreme situations. Obvious things, such as blobs, xenomorph outbreaks, mass chaos from any other antag, etc, tend to cause these things to go out the window, as long as these things are focused towards the situation. Someone taking the chaos as an excuse to be shit for the sake of being shit to someone is still in violation of Space Law and SOP for their crimes, but if armed security are fighting a blob and a civilian gets in the way of their shots and dies, it's not murder. It is situational. If you yourself are not doing something as IAA in these situations, you can be expected to at least hear them out and let them know what you CAN do once the current situation is handled. Context is key, remember that. If security is so down on officers that the Detective/Brig Physician have to step in, the law doesn't just stop. SOP may very well be tossed out, and they may be expected to help apprehend criminals/handle processing.
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IAA is not hard to play as long as you aren't being a dick to security, honestly. You are really supposed to only get involved with Capital level offenses, even as a Magistrate. If someone in jail wishes to request a lawyer, it's really up to the IAA to be listening to radios for them to hear the request and move over on their own accord. They can ask what the charges are and the evidence, but being the accused and saying 'they didn't present evidence or charges or whatever' when they actually did just to try to get out of something is what's really annoying and makes the system so much harder than it needs to be. The IAA can talk to you while you are serving your actual sentence if it's a complaint on a valid cause, such as your noted topic, to try to get the items back, but you need to remember to keep a level-head and not being yelling like a mad man over the radios, or you will end up getting ignored.
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The station blows up an average of 3 or 4 times a day. Get used to these statistics, and that your job may end up terminated if you are found to be Syndicate scum, and you'll do fine. Welcome to the NSS Cyberiad, Epsilon Eridani. Glory to NanoTrasen.
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Very simple story... I got bored and decided to start drawing... Also, because it was requested of me to do some drawing. I haven't drawn since 2012, back in high school.
Picture 1:
Looks like some things you don't necessarily forget...
Picture 2:
I based this one off an image of myself that I have from Geek.Kon. I'm not good with faces yet, but the rest seems pretty good. Glove is just kind of... Bland, but eh.
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I see a few different 'topics' that this could touch on:
Firstly, this can be seen as a general admin complaint towards the decision of the admins on at the time to: instead of letting the round end by Command vote (as you admitted you were in the active command team), it was decided to cancel the shuttle and send in an ERT to quell the cult which was being obvious of there being a cult. Secondly, it can be seen as a 'give antags more freedom' debate, in that it's almost asking for the admins not to make the game respond to the actions antags take, singularly or as a whole, so they can have their fun. Lastly, it can be seen as a request for a change of the ERT, either in purpose or loadout, as a balance adjustment.
There is a main, underlying perspective as counter to these three, however:
When an antag is being obvious, they are taking more self-purported risk to make things stand out: Usually, when it's a large antag (blob) or a large group of antags (cult, nukies, xenomorphs) making such a splash in the pool of the game, you'd expect the game to respond back, usually in the level of the players responding back to put a stop to them (players vs antag). However, it is highly suggested in some of those antags to leave it to the work of security (so only [x]players vs antag). From a true role-play point of view, there are only a handful of people who are supposed to be going up against these antags. What happens when those people are gone? Are the antags supposed to just win?
No, they aren't. Because they have steamrolled, and it's too easy for them. Some people do find that to be the height of their game, and perhaps the best they can ever do, but there is always something higher for you to stand above. Bring in the ERT, a team of people who are 'supposed' to be highly trained in stopping a crisis. If cultists have wiped out an entire security detail, the next step up is the ERT, which is a proper response. You're point of view of it could be used against you on that matter: If the antags could do it, why not let them just have it? The point of view of 'hand holding' the player can be used in the same light if an in-game response that is appropriate isn't sent against the people who wiped out an entire security detail. People can argue that because a team wasn't sent that it was just letting the antags win, especially when help was requested.
If antags are being that blatantly obvious, usually in group antag groups like that, they should expect to get more going against them for upping the ante. For me, on antags like blob, I wait a bit before deciding to send a team in. Usually 30 minutes to an hour, seeing where the blob is at. If it's an hour in, you should expect an ERT to be arriving, if not Delta, because it's already taking too long. Blob rounds really should take around 30 to 50 minutes. If nukies declare war, you should expect the crew to use and get everything they can to defend the station, and many times that includes an ERT team if there is not a proper security detail.
ERT are not all mighty, not even the Death Squad is. They progressively get more high-powered, but you can still kill a Death Squad member with a banana. You got better at the game, the next tier of difficult appears, time to get even better by learning how to beat this one, too. The reward to blatant antagonism is the ERT: If you beat the ERT, usually you've made the game a hell of a lot more interesting, and likely have some really good equipment after that.
If everyone wants to be obvious antags, leaving behind a trail of dead bodies, expect a response from the NAS Trurl: It's one of the most efficient ways we can bring people back into the game, especially if there is an hour left before the round even ends normally. It isn't about making the game more fun for the few: As an admin, it's our jobs to make the game more fun for the majority of players. And people sitting out dead because someone was more skilled than them or had slightly better latency or some other random thing happened at the exact same time isn't fun for them. ERT are sent to restore order to the chaos: The game, our server specifically, wouldn't be fun for a large amount, if not most, players we have already and new ones we try to bring in if the balance of the game was more on chaos and entropy most of the time, if not all the time, without game admins being able to attempt to shift that balance towards one of the other spetrums. Maintaining that fine balance of order and entropy, silly and serious, is what we strive to do.
If we no longer sent ERT just because an antag was already 'winning', we would be on the chaos spetrum a lot more than we wish, and I'm sure there are other servers that choose to do that and thrive on it. We, however, are not them and do very well with trying to maintain more of a balance to make the environment more role-play friendly rather than just action-based. And we also hope that the added challenge for antags makes them, especially in team antag groups, work together to overcome those odds, to give them even better memories of playing this 2D, top-down game when they defeat something they never did before.
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I highly suggest not doing this. They have their own languages for ease of communication between themselves, from their homeland. The ONLY one that makes sense is Sol being an available language to other species, since it's a localized collective hub of commerce, but from a lore stand-point, there are many species at ends with one another, let alone having any opportunity to properly learn a language with much accuracy without actually having been there, or learning from species (still including the fact those species, lore-wise, can very well absolute hate one another).
Even doing it for the base species throws issue with pronunciation, such as Humans trying to speak the language of the Kidan, or a Kidan trying to speak the language of the Skrell. This, in its own right, makes no sense. Most species would be unable to even realistically speak another species's language.
This seems strictly for the extent of doing it for base species, which makes privacy less than possible. And if Karma species still get protection of this (and still the privacy against other carbons), then why are the vanilla species getting this modification in the first place? It makes karma species even more snowflake by having that protected language that other species can't speak.
Really, it's something that seems to be strictly for the purpose of trying to 'make things more transparent' when it actually just supports the special-ness behind karma species.
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As iterated before: This would be the station self-destruct itself. Things like nuke ops would still have a mobile nuke. It'd overall make more sense than an old fat boy style nuke. You wouldn't be able to counter it without the NAD or pulling the pins, depending on if it was locked again.
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Might give me reason to play War Thunder again... With Sigholt. Because fun. I prefer air battles, myself.
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One of the outright biggest issues is security already has such strict guidelines, and people fear playing security because they believe they will get banned if they mess up, even just a little. It's not the number of crimes in the system. Honestly, we are missing some crimes that really do need to be in the system. It's the lack of officers themselves. Security would work so much better if more people decided to actually play Security. More officers, more opportunity for officers to RP instead of having to double-time everything, which has further given security a bad reputation.
If people have the opportunity to RP, you'll even more likely see more IAA, and even Magistrates, which can improve the chances of people getting properly sentenced. More officers gives officers less stress of trying to get to every crime (especially serious crimes), and keeps things better organized. If people are calm through it, being calm shows more confidence that you are innocent than screaming "Shitcurity!" or "I'VE BEEN WRONGFULLY ARRESTED!" does. If you really are innocent, a calm asking for a lawyer will help your case much better. But IAA and Magistrates won't see action if people don't do that or are requested by security, and honestly an officer who feels entitled to that valid arrest will try to fight a lawyer getting anywhere near you. More officers would help make the chances of actually getting a lawyer much higher, as well, by diversifying officers and opinions better, and giving you a better chance to have a lawyer requested for legal counsel.
Yes, the system fails once an admin has to intervene, and the biggest issue with this: Is people assume that if they adminhelp, that increases the chance they will get unarrested, and even likely get that officer in trouble. Yes, it's a rule that officers are in fact held to a higher standard. That being said, this mentality of trying to get someone in trouble, consciously or subconsciously, or even trying to get out of IC issues with an OOC response needs to end. It's why people are afraid to touch security, why antags go rampant due to lack of officers, builds into people valid hunting due to lack of officers, especially in the late night. People don't want to fear getting in trouble, so they stay away from where trouble is most likely to be had because of adminhelps. If there is a very blatant illegal arrest, literally no evidence/witness testimony/officer literally couldn't have seen you do it, then adminhelp. Especially on trumped up charges. But I've had a few people who did commit crimes, the evidence was literally all right there, and the exchange of me with them was 'they didn't explain anything, illegal!'... This isn't the case in almost all those cases, either. I've had many times that they did explain the charges. The person literally just ignored them because they were screaming out loud, then complains when their headset is taken away.
IAA and Magistrate get told they can't intervene by overzealous securtiy, when really only the Head of Security and Warden should have any say in that, though Magistrate overrides allowing legal precedence in all cases. They should just stick to higher crimes worth anything, however. Both have direct access to Central via Fax, and believe me, I read all faxes. If it needs a response, I respond. So you shouldn't fear being an IAA, because it's literally your job and unless you are being disruptive to their actually safely processing people, you have expected right to talk to suspects and get the charges verified, getting both sides of the case (usually from the Detective who should have the evidence ready).
Security SOP is already strict. It doesn't need to be stricter, or we will have even fewer players than we already do. In all honestly, the people who are good at security shouldn't feel like they will get in trouble for actually playing security.
These are my views on it.
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Simple: No. Complex: ERT are not a joke, nor should they have a chance to be. They are a proper response to a threat to aid the station, and shouldn't have a 'chance' to be something outright trying to be a meme or joke. When admins send in an ERT, it's because we believe there is a clear need for assistance to the station to handle the situation. If we wanted to do a 'joke', we have other ways of doing so.
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Auto-patching would be better, and last I recall someone was trying to work out the kinks to make it work (which would also make it so only one location would have to have the passcode, other than to perhaps emergency reboot the server). When the current person responsible for patching gets better, I'd personally like patches every other week, with emergency fix patches when necessary, of course, as a precaution. A number of patches that get added are fixes to the game's code, and when something is broken for 3 weeks before a patch goes through to make it playable, it does bother players (and perhaps admins who have to fix it on live *cough*podcode*cough*). Consistency is not a certainty, however, as more than just the factor of the person who can patch being around to patch plays into this.
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Right this moment, from local tests, which is why I started messing with Tesla power output code, Tesla, on start with 0 energy balls does 1.7-ish million energy. Energy balls add nothing to this number. It's start and instant all-the-power mode. The PR I have up will lower Tesla power by a factor of 10, but fixes the energy balls to increase the amount of power it gives. Still super easy to set up, produces a lot of energy (and can producing more power than all the other engines combined when it gets a large number of energy balls). This immediately makes it so that engineering has the option to maintain it so it doesn't produce too much power and better balances it to fit within the realm of the other engines, power-wise.
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4695
ERT Alternatives
in Suggestions
Posted
Nor does your side of the stance: It's a matter of perspective and intention by the players. If someone wants to screw over the antag, regardless of how they get back into the round they can do so, be it ERT or mid-round antag (with really the only exception being blob; some are just EASIER to do so, such as revenant). It's a matter of perspective of ERT being designed to be counter-antag (thus bring order) vs mid-round antag being strictly to increase entropy (thus bring chaos). How they go about doing so can hide many underlying intentions, such as meta-grudges, meta-knowledge use, and valid hunting via targeting specific people when you reasonably wouldn't go after them.