Shadeykins
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Posts posted by Shadeykins
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5 hours ago, Threeinone said:
Thought I could start a bit of a thread sharing a bunch of mechanics and info that nobody really ever uses shift-to-shift.
So uh, did you know you can tie cuffed people to pipes? I found out while i was being chased down by a vamp that glared and cuffed me but forgot to drag. I got tied to the disposal pipes as soon as sec saved me. It's kinda useless though 'cuz all the pipes are in the main tunnels out in the open.
If you got any weird mechanics or info about how the game works, feel free to share here.
Very useful in conversion-type rounds like Shadowling, actually. It's also a quick "spur-of-the-moment" way to bucklecuff people.
Useless mechanics? Passive gates in atmos are just a recoloured gas pump.
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743 total, 378 available.
plsstop.
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16 hours ago, EpicWinNoob said:
-snip-
There's a lot of good suggestions in here, but the bulk of it would mean touching Legal Standard Operating Procedure which isn't presently on the table.
When that can of worms gets opened, we can take a look at expanding upon/streamlining the trial process.
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2 minutes ago, Coloss260 said:
I am saying that I agree with the idea of picking random people to be deviant IPCs, I am not saying the opposite ^^
I think the issue here is that it hinges around a "convert only IPCs" factor.
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2 hours ago, Coloss260 said:
As I said, why not picking random IPCs ? I agree to your idea to be precise
As Regens stated, because it picks from players from a karmalocked race.
Raiders does not do this. If you do not have Vox, you can still be a raider. It's selected at roundstart and forces people into random Vox-named characters.
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22 hours ago, Trubus said:
Those who were changeling stung should turn themselves in so security can note and mark them
This is great on paper, not too great on security records or in the heat of a round.
I'm not sure that the argument for impersonation laws are convincing enough. If a person has someone else's ID, it's already Theft.
If they have a voice changer, it's Contraband. If they're injecting people with body-changing SE's, it's Assault.
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oh, single round thing.
I was thinking just implement a tiered rating system where admins can award a rank/rating to players with good roleplay. It would give rewards in a tier and incentivize, y'know, roleplaying.
Give them a royal crown.
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On 6/16/2018 at 7:35 AM, necaladun said:
Lots of fun ideas here! Thanks!
Bonus points:
Things we don't have to code but already exist!Extra loadout points.
Done.
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I put my ID in my PDA slot all the time, it's less clicking around and it keeps your ID card a little safer than it would be otherwise (the downside is of course, you could lose it if you get detomatix'd).
One of the major flaws with impersonation laws is people who have been unwillingly changed via changeling stings (and this happens a LOT) or who have been brain-transplanted into a monkey host will get arrested and brigged for doing nothing wrong. It's also going to make losing your ID card a briggable offense.
If someone's not wearing their ID card, they're already fair game to stop and search. If they have nothing on them, well, they have nothing on them and they're not a problem.
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1 hour ago, dapocalypse said:
I don't really understand what you are trying to say.
from what I can gather:
If you are talking about changlings having no proof of muder you just catch them in the act, changing forms as well, it doesn't really change anything from base game.
If you're advocating for "changing forms" being proof of a cling, you're effectively advocating for the current policy (which is kill on sight). You were arguing to remove kill on sight, which would mean direct evidence of a murder would be required (changelings have a tendency to change forms, which makes forensic evidence a little difficult understandably). This would mean the vast majority of changelings (upwards of 90% because very few are actually caught "in the act") would be sent to science.
Your idea for sending them to science is to lock them in an impenetrable murderbox and prevent them from playing, but constantly waving a carrot that they might--by chance--have the opportunity to escape. Either this is going to result in locking a player in an impenetrable cell for several hours (which is an extremely dickish thing to do), or it's going to mean that the strongest lone antagonist next to wizard suddenly gets a get-out-of-jail free card because they can easily murder the scientist (a card which they really, really don't need).
What happens if a changeling escapes? How do you prove it's that specific changeling that already escaped once before? This just ends up creating a cyclical non-solution to something that isn't a problem in the first place.
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Bay has a fundamentally different notion of what a changeling is, so I don't think these are fair examples.
Changelings in our codebase will more or less always have an objective to kill someone. They are also not the person they start as in lore terms, they would have murdered aforementioned crewmember and absorbed them in order to get on board.
If this happens once in a blue moon with decent controls, it can work--the issue is this would be occurring every single time there's a changeling with no direct proof of murder which, thanks to their ability to change forms constantly, is already nearly impossible to pin them for.
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34 minutes ago, dapocalypse said:
Not really, they do this thing on bay, there are a lot of interesting rp opertunities that come of it.
There is little roleplay to be had when you are constantly being murdered and forced to ghost for the duration of a round because people are arbitrarily keeping you alive. Roleplay for the other parties, sure--for the person playing the changeling itself? No, not really.
I am diametrically opposed to any implementation that forestalls the ability of a player to actually do anything. People have limited time to play games, they do not want to spend that time being murdered endlessly for two hours because a scientist wants to "experiment" on them for no tangible gain whatsoever. You are effectively advocating that the vast majority of changelings now, rather than simply being killed outright, face something much worse than death--being murdered endlessly and not being allowed to ghost out of it without it being seen as a "cop-out."
This not only boils down to an issue with the rules in the context of antagonist knowledge, but also in the context of not being a dick. This is the mechanical equivalent of welding someone in a locker, RCDing walls around them, and leaving them locked up for the rest of the round.
As I said, it is a massive disservice to anyone who has the misfortune of rolling changeling.
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20 minutes ago, dapocalypse said:
No, take them out to test on them.
A solution to breaking walls and airlocks would be to keep them in a burn chamber so that they are constantly dead until they are needed when the burn chamber is vented and the ling is taken out.
This is still pointlessly keeping a player in their body for no real purpose whatsoever.
Changelings can also melt cuffs now--you're proposing something that takes nearly an hour of setup time w/ a scientist and atmos tech which has a high chance of failure, other threats, etc. so rather than outright killing a player and letting them roll for midround antag, you can keep them from playing indefinitely.
It's not feasible and it's also a massive disservice to whoever has the misfortune of rolling changeling.
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4 minutes ago, dapocalypse said:
Can't you lock them in a bolted high pressure room with no vents.
You can destroy airlocks/walls with an armblade under the new damage system. Damage system aside, this would also just mean a player would be locked in a tiny room with next to nothing to do for the rest of the round.
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15 minutes ago, dapocalypse said:
Affect game ballance? A guy trying to kill someone when they are a syndicate is still a guy trying to kill someone.
As I said, changelings are not possible to contain. If you specify that you require evidence of an exceptional crime to execute them, that is extending the hand to one of the most dangerous lone antagonists in the game that they would otherwise not have. It also creates the issue wherein a changeling making themselves obvious/known is no longer something people are able to respond to (IE: killing a changeling who didn't openly murder someone in front of you would suddenly get you permabrigged for murder).
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2 minutes ago, dapocalypse said:
Well the first part about the changelings not being KOS is a spesslaw change, the last bit about restricting knowledge is a rules change, it still affects spesslaw. If I had it my way I would ban/ heavily restrict all knowledge of antags and build the spesslaw around that. EOC and all mention of antags would be remove and will allow people to improvise and figure out how to deal with a certain unusual situation without being restricted by an already set thing. Thats just my argument for spesslaw.
See the above edit.
I can pitch it to administration if you're dead-set on the idea, but it's very likely to be a categorical "no" simply for the purposes of game balance.
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7 minutes ago, dapocalypse said:
I feel that changelings shouldnt be KOS if they are cooperative, in that case they should be relocated to research for the purposes of research. To pair along with this knowledge of changeling powers should be restricted. At research they should find a containment procedure and perform tests on them I guess.
That would be a rules change for the latter part, not a Space Law change.
I'm also reticent about allowing the most dangerous and powerful antagonist in the game (sans maybe Wizard) not be KOS. A changeling has multiple means of resisting death and more or less immediately/silently killing people with various stings (mute+cryo comes to mind). They also have several AoE stuns, instakill methods against Voxes/IPCs that can't be disabled, and an innate weapon capable of decapitation.
There is no means of safely containing a cling, especially with the changes to damagecode (you can just armblade an rwall down now, AFAIK).
Changelings are also intended to be a stealthier antagonist (this is their original intention/design) in the vein of John Carpenter's The Thing and KOS enforces this. We used to have "friendly lings" due to loyalty implants (security lings, essentially), it was pretty awful.
QuoteWe do not restrict knowledge on any Antagonists, but you may pick and choose what your character knows. Similarly, we do not enforce Clone Memory Disorder (amnesia after cloning/borging), but you may freely play it straight in your character. We also do not restrict knowledge based on your job.
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On 6/14/2018 at 11:56 AM, Germ Man said:
You know what would help keeping wrong times being applied to a minimum?
Adding the time reference to the quick reference.
Pretty sure half the time people give 15 minutes for trespass is because they only check the quick reference guide and make some sort of estimate.
If it were to read 0-5, 5-10, 10-15, perma, executon, I guess the term of "quick reference" would be more suitable.Implemented.
On 6/14/2018 at 11:59 AM, Coldflame said:What constitutes an unsuccessful attempt and what is too minor to even be considered? Is hitting a cell window once an unsuccessful attempt?
Clarified.
Repeatedly damaging or otherwise destroying a cell enclosure is considered an escape attempt.On 6/16/2018 at 11:05 AM, Coldflame said:Perhaps genuinely seperate incidents that occur before an arrest should count differently, related incidents shouldn't.
If someone goes on a shopping spree in medbay and steals 20 medkits, book them on theft. If they steal a multitool in engineering, evade sec, then bust into sci to grab a welding helmet, book them on Theftx2
Pitched it to administration, majority is in favour of keeping crime stacking a no-no for sanity reasons/also to simplify Space Law and reduce potential abuse.
On 6/15/2018 at 10:44 PM, necaladun said:I'm not too sure about resetting. How about a flat +X minutes? It being worse to try to escape 10s before you're released rather than in the first 10s feels off.
On 6/17/2018 at 2:37 PM, Tayswift said:Speaking of minimum values: one way to disincentivize breaking out of your cell early on, since resetting the timer gets linearly worse the longer you spend brigged, is to say "add enough time to reset the timer, or five minutes, whichever results in the longer sentence". This will make it so that if you try to break out of your cell 1 second into your sentence, you will get 5 minutes added instead of 1 second added.
It's now Reset or +5 minutes, whichever is greater. Scaling modifiers (25% ones) have had minimum values added of three minutes as well (IE: the minimum that can be added or removed from a charge due to a modifier is now three minutes).
On 6/18/2018 at 9:49 AM, Coldflame said:remove parole tbh
it's stated that its to be done in emergencies but never gets done in said emergencies, situations that actually warrant parole are rare enough it can be a cc/admin thing
Will check on this again, but my impression from talking about parole (I'm not in favour of EoCs being paroled myself) is that headmins want it to stay.
On 6/17/2018 at 2:55 AM, Coldflame said:repeat offence starting on 2nd is a good change imo, scaling as it does already
someone doing the same shit to the degree of being arrested 4 times in one round could probably use a trip to perma
Has already been reduced from 6 times to 5, but I will see if headmins are fine with it being perma on fourth offense.
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The root cause of an RP crime is roleplaying in most circumstances (narcotics distribution is a bit different in a lot of instances, it's not just weed). We are a roleplaying server after all, and security is expected (as is any other job) to make a good and honest attempt at performing their duties.
If the concern is the application of the law, greater good of the station covers this. Otherwise the person should absolutely be sentenced for violating Space Law, it is after all a crime and we are a roleplaying server. Whittling away at "RP crimes" is going to seriously compromise the roleplay levels of the server, people running around while naked and on the kush is--while funny--not something we want to see become an every day occurrence. Installing some form of deterrent (in this case, an IC response via Space Law) is necessary in this regard.
If an officer is feeling amicable about the situation or there are extenuating circumstances, they can parole the prisoner.
tl;dr remove Punpun from being protected by Space Law and you get people beating and dragging the bloody corpse of Punpun all across the station for 30 minutes every single round (Yes, this has happened). Botany is already a powerful meme and some of the drugs they can produce/distribute can seriously derail the flow of a round.
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6 minutes ago, Coldflame said:
to name a few crimes of higher categories it may be worth ignoring depending on context: narcotics distribution, major tresspass, posession of contraband
Niche cases should already be covered by the upper clause (about the greater good of the station, etc.). Giving security carte blanche to waive sentences is going to end up likely leading to more resentment against security players who don't waive sentences, which is something we really want to avoid.
They're already able to do something similar (but not quite waiving) under the parole system.
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12 hours ago, TwoCam said:
Alright then, could we consider my suspended sentencing idea? I think it would result in security being much more willing to release people with a warning while not giving people a free pass to graytide if they continue to do IC crimes, since they'll likely serve the sentence either way.
Officers are already able to parole people at their discretion. They can also issue warnings for up to minor crimes.
Again, this is covered by the modifiers.
However I will say that if someone is doing more than a minor crime, you should not be handwaving it. There are no non-serious minor crimes that deserve a handwave.
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7 hours ago, ZN23X said:
I never knew that. I've given people parole many times as the HOS and even the Warden (probably with permission from a higher up as the Warden but I at least initiated the conversation regarding the parole). I also didn't know it was only for emergencies. I've only ever seen parole given due to good behavior. The only time I've seen an antag given a "pardon" for the sake of an emergency is when there is a REALLY good full powered vamp and command/security essentially says "We will no longer pursue you as long as you help us kill these terrors/xenos."
Can it be changed for more than just emergencies? It can be hard to find RP in sec and honestly some of the best RP I've experienced in sec was due to a prisoner schmoozing to try to earn parole.
I think you're all confusing the Parole clause at the top. That's for EoC's, not for regular prisoners.
Look at the modifier for standard parole, not the EoC clause.
Regardless, the parole requirement for active surveillance means you're exchanging a security officer to let a dangerous prisoner/EoC do something. There's very few circumstances where this is a good idea, which is why it's relegated to Captain/Magistrate approval.
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18 minutes ago, ZN23X said:
HOS as well or no? Maybe even the Warden? Same pecking order as "Sentencing Conflicts"
The page looks a hell of alot cleaner than it used to. Excellent work.
where are the anti greytide laws???That one is unchanged from original Space Law. Has never had the HoS on it.
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14 hours ago, TwoCam said:
Yeah, a partial solution is what I suggested before: the repeat offender modifier should start the second time and be harsher.
I think a lot of modifiers in general should either be harsher or come with an alternate sentence that can be applied (for example, 25% or five minutes at the officer's choice.) Slapping someone with an extra 45 seconds just doesn't quite make sense.
I think that overall if we want to see some of the changes that we're looking for, we're going to need to have a space law that's harsher on minor crimes, and rewording plus very minor numerical tweaks isn't going to solve that.
That's a very salient point--modifiers are inherently less useful on minor crimes and proportionally more severe on larger ones.
Removing 25% altogether would nerf positive modifiers and dis-incentivize cooperation. What if we gave them minimum values? IE: 25%, with a minimum value of 2-5 (somewhere in this range) minutes?
Useless Pro Tips
in General Discussion
Posted
This is more or less true, but the same effect can be achieved by just measuring your input and setting a gas pump accordingly. There's almost no situation where you want specific pressures in pipenets that can't already be achieved by the very simple gas pump.