[Small change to emagging drones]

Perhaps a better idea for the Shadowling Enthrallment. The Ghost takes over the body, but the person taken over becomes sort of like a holoparasite? Able to talk to their 'master'.

[Small change to emagging drones]

3 hours ago, Streaky Haddock said:

this is a thing that you can... kinda do already.

True but the difference is, if it's snatching ghosts. All you need is one guy determined to be a drone to dronify the entirety of dead chat. Not everyone normally joins as a drone.

[Purchasable Traitor Objectives.]

So, right now, Antag Objectives are fairly random. What if rather than randomly assigning objectives at round start. You instead got a certain number of Objective Points, and could use these to claim Objectives off the Objective Board. With which you could claim objectives. So you could choose whether you wanted a Protect or Assassinate, or whatever. In order to keep people from always choosing Hijack, make it so that when you COMPLETE your objectives, you can report back to the Syndicate. If the objective is fulfilled, (You have the stolen item in your hand, or the target is dead or what have you.) You increase in rank and get MORE objective points and possibly a couple of Telecrystals. Keep climbing the ranks until the round ends or you get arrested/killed.

[Small change to emagging drones]

This does seem like a good idea. The only Issue that occurs to me is that one could camp the fabricator and Emag every drone produced. Since it would force ghosts into the drone, you could produce as many subservient drones as their are ghosts, rather than the limit being "However many people have become drones."

[Regarding round length]

53 minutes ago, Bxil said:

Just a little survey, since it has been mentioned that many people feel that they don't have enough time to do what they want to.

Less "Not enough time to do what they want to." and more "Not enough time to deal with all the legalistic bullshit."

I'm far more in favor of removing aforementioned legalism than I am in favor of lengthening the rounds. Still, I'm just AGOTI.

[Lack of respect for medbay and Mary Sues]

It's really not that hard to do R&D. The primary limiter is materials and access.

The reason why people walk all over Medbay is because it might as well be open to the public. It's got a single set of doors, with no mantrap to prevent tailgaters and people don't bother to close them either as well as having buttons to open the doors.

[Lack of respect for medbay and Mary Sues]

14 hours ago, Tayswift said:

When research is being super incompetent, nobody just barges in and starts doing RND.

Yes. Yes they do. And in some cases, even if you're researching something completely apart from RND, they will assault you for not doing RND.

If you don't do your job, the Tide will do it for you. It's just harder to get into R&D than it is Medbay so mostly it's just Roboticists.

[Shadowrun Station 13]

 

Name of Event: Shadowrunner Attack.

One Sentence Description: Like Nuke, but without the gear and with a grab bag of Antags.

 

Map Changes: No.

Code Changes: No

Suggested Number of Players: Normal Nuke Roundpop

 

Full Description of Event: More or less a Nukeops Team, only instead of the usual team, it consists of... 1.) A Space Wizard.  2.) A 'Hacker/Rigger' with various hacking tools and a syndieborg companion 3.) A 'Street Sam' with usual Nukie Loadout with an emphasis on implants. and 4.) An 'Adept' with Sleeping Carp style and maybe some other Kung Fu themed things.

Their goal is to infiltrate the station, and either quietly or not extract the [research director, Head of Security, Head of Personnel, Etc Some Head of Staff] so that they can go work for a rival corporation. As well as steal the Prototype Data from the R&D lab and the Nuke from the Vault.

[[OPEN RP]]

[The Magistrate.]

Hmm... odd. I must have misread the code then. Still. Fairly short to involve a full legalistic system.

[The Magistrate.]

57 minutes ago, LordSplinter said:

we surely do not have such time for doing alot of things, but most rounds are two hours, i can't see to be doing the same job for more than two hours(research can even be maximized in 10 minutes therefore scientists have almost nothing more to do ),want to do a evil plan ?, it's easy, such as the time where a guy bought a chameleon stamp and made a paper which would be saying that operatives invaded CC and got all the control, in that round everyone freaked out and theybelieved in it so much that CC had to send a Death squad who died, literally 2 hours for us let us do alot of things,as i remember when i made literally 30 grenades which put someone on fire enough to kill them twice 

were too Highpop to have more than two hours rounds long or something like that, if the auto shuttle votes win is because people wants, not because there's a bot which does it, to have large rounds that depends on people playing, nothing more

Hard to understand you. But Baystation was pretty darn Highpop when I played as well. They just filled the time with RP and experiments.

And that's exactly my point. That's 'an evil plan' that takes one step. And that's it.

I'm not saying there's a BOT that rigs the vote. I'm saying people CHOOSE to vote to end the round consistently when the automatic vote comes up.

[The Magistrate.]

15 hours ago, Ty Omaha said:

 

I have been in plenty of rounds where it has lasted much longer than 30-60 min and from my experience most of the rounds do last longer than that. 

No one said a "baystation esque paperwork system" and I can't imagine the round was terribly busy if you were focused on cargo

It would have taken you less than 5 minutes to do this, mind you:

Step 1.
Copy and paste one of the job request forms on a piece of paper
https://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Example_Paperwork#HoP_Paperwork

Step 2.
Have applicant fill out their portion 

Step 3.
Fill out your portion

Step 4.
Stamp

Step 5.
Take piece of paper and put it in a filing cabinet 

Step 6.
When CC asked about the paperwork, retrieve paperwork from cabinet and fax to CC and bask in glorious "I did do paperwork. Take THAT, CC!"

 

 

 

Once again, I' m not saying that you should have done this, but your reasoning behind it seemed like a poor excuse in my opinion.

 

Really now? That's quite interesting considering I've never seen a round last past the first auto vote for a shuttle. And that vote triggers at sixty minutes. So yes, technically you might be right, they last 'longer than sixty minutes.' but the length by which they do is meaninglessly small. Baystation was, again, built into a system where the same round could last up to and past 6 - 12 hours.

> Nobody says Baystation Esque Paperwork system.
> Links a repository where half the HoP forms are lifted straight from Baystation.

The point is that's NOT done nine times out of ten. And nobody complains. The paperwork is there as a cheap "Gotcha!"

And again, we're going well into left field here with the anecdotes... but I was actually not focused at all on the HoP position. I was more concerned with the OLD HoP who was running around with captain access having stolen the NAD and a number of other items trying to kill people. I appointed the first semi-competent person from the department I saw because I couldn't open up the position because the old HoP disposed of his ID card so I couldn't dismiss him and open up the slot.

When it looked like Security was more likely to RP with aforementioned Old HoP than actually try to capture him, I considered paroling a vampire to use as an assassin. Because hey, security caught the dude once, not like he can change his face or anything. Then because he 'violated parole', he'd be 100% fair game for execution. Bam. Two birds, one Stone.

Was it the best of plans? Nope. But I was grasping at straws at that point to get someone who might actually listen. When the HoP was caught by a member of security, I more or less didn't need the Vampire paroled anymore, so I tried to arrange a meeting with the relevant heads of staff where I would be 'talked out of it.' back down and the previously planned execution would go forth. Only the magistrate holed up in their office sending messages to centcomm rather than interact with the crew.

[A serious issue, podbombing and stealing nukie's nuke]

10 minutes ago, FeiH said:

going out to steal the nuke is already excessively validhunting in a game mode where the valids are hunting you. There's no in-character justification for knowing where the nuke ops ship is or that it even exists unless you stumble on it, and there is no reason to go into the shuttle itself except to take the nuke. If your character somehow knows that all nukies are on station then the only justification they have for breaking into the ops shuttle is to take the nuke; if they don't, then they're rushing into a situation blindly when all hands are desperately needed to combat the threat of nuclear annihilation. 

No matter how you slice it, seeking out the shuttle with the express purpose of stealing the nuke is metagaming Paradise's already loose limits on antag knowledge, but until we get an official admin ruling then people are free to do what they want. 

Really?

Space is huge. You're not getting ANYWHERE without a shuttle. The fact that invaders are here at all is pretty much proof positive that there's an enemy shuttle SOMEWHERE. And capturing it has all manner of justification. From preventing the enemy from escaping to hampering any efforts they might make to restock and resupply to maybe just planting a bomb on the thing and blowing it to hell in a case of role reversal.

Rather than try to enforce some ridiculous 'meta knowledge' just make the nuke harder to steal. Add a little secure vault thing with tasers inside like the AI upload.

[A serious issue, podbombing and stealing nukie's nuke]

As I recall, the communcation Consoles CAN be Emagged. But that doesn't change the access requirements. <.< So you still need a captain level ID, it just sends messages to the syndicate instead of centcomm.

I've heard that you can actually use it as a traitor to spawn in an Extraction Team if you've accomplished your objectives but sadly never managed to get the chance to try it out.

[The Magistrate.]

On 9/26/2017 at 6:22 AM, Ty Omaha said:

If you seriously want to nitpick the definition of a "sentence" you can look online to see that probation/parole is included, in addition to meaning "A judgment or judicial declaration made by a judge". In the context of space station; anyone imposing brig time or parole on a criminal would be considered the "judge" in that definition.

Paperwork for job changes is fairly common, sure it's not all the time but this is a highly sensitive job. The place you could have submitted could have been CC via the fax machine. 

If cargo was an issue I personally would have recruited more Cargo Techs or fired the QM and recruit a new one rather than an HoP. 

People get chastised for recruiting from the manifest for sensitive jobs such as security all the time. HoP has the ability to get all access and to easily give all access out so I can see why people complained. Should CC have told you that you were in the wrong? That's up in the air. But if you recruit a sensitive job such as the HoP from non mind-shielded crew member i.e. Chaplain expect people to pout about it, especially how you basically described the process for choosing an HoP was "oh he was just standing there so might as well make him HoP".

The Captain directs the heads, the heads direct their departments. The Captain isn't supposed to be micro managing. The captain doesn't need to know every little thing that happens. Similar to how CoC works in the military. Security catches some greytider? Great. Captain doesn't need to know. Security catches an EoC? "Hey cap we've got a confirmed syndicate agent here" Great.

Captain says "CE you are to get engineering to construct a BSA in the old bar" Guess what a large chunk of a department is now doing? given that the CE doesn't hog it to himself  

Now if the heads are ignoring you for extended periods of time I find it perfectly reasonable to demote them, given if they are ignoring non-silly things or were not pre-occupied.

 

The issue is, our rounds are not long enough for a baystation esque paperwork and chain of command system. Our rounds last thirty minutes to maybe an hour. There have been times on Baystation where I would roll up an antag, start a plot, set it into motion, play for hours, go to sleep in a locker, wake up six hours later, and then finish my evil plan because the round is still going.

Baystation has LUDICROUSLY long round times, and that's why this system worked for them. Here, by the time you've gone through all the hurdles to do basically anything, the round is over.

[A serious issue, podbombing and stealing nukie's nuke]

Or alternatively you could NOT leave your shuttle full of stuff unguarded? You act like all the nukies HAVE to leave the shuttle. They don't. You could totally leave one behind as 'pilot/nuke guard.' and that even opens up a ton of options because you can move the shuttle to make exit strategies more convenient.

[The Magistrate.]

The issue with these, and I don't deny that they're there. But they rely on people actually listening to you. And to use the one example, I was actually Chastised for appointing a replacement HoP, because it was the chaplain. Why was it the chaplain? Because noone in cargo was actually present and doing their job and the Bartender who was present and doing their job, didn't want to give that job up, and the chaplain was there.

But the Magistrate complained. Centcomm responded. I was in the wrong apparently. Why? Because I hadn't done the proper paperwork. Not that there's a way to SUBMIT paperwork, or paperwork for job changes is normally done at all.

This implies to me, that no, you can't choose the replacement you want. You have to choose [insert common choice because of perceived second in command status here].

So the captain has their hands tied in delegation as well. So basically this implies to me that the captain, if they want any real control over the station, should appoint greytiders or other random people to 'captains watch' or something, and have them be his/her eyes/hands about the station.

[The Magistrate.]

23 hours ago, EvadableMoxie said:

What command decision could the Magistrate override, exactly? He can't direct security or order security officers around. All he can do is put a number on how long the people security brings to him get brigged for. Judges don't tell the police who to arrest, or set departmental policy.  The HoS still has way more control over security than the Magistrate ever will, because he directs all of security.  If security isn't arresting people and bringing them before the Magistrate, there is nothing the Magistrate can even do. 

HoS is irrelevant to this discussion. My point is that the captain has less actual control over the running of the station than the Heads of Staff. One of the few powers the captain has, has now been removed because apparently the Magistrate needs something to justify their existence.

[The Magistrate.]

12 minutes ago, EvadableMoxie said:

This is hyperbole at it's finest.  Because the Magistrate outranks the Captain in one specific aspect while the Captain controls literally everything else that goes on in the station, the Magistrate is more powerful than the captain? Ridiculous. 

'One Specific Aspect' AKA The entire department of Security. One sixth of the crew and the primary means of enforcing commands decisions.

[The Magistrate.]

So basically, the Magistrate is the captain. And the Captain is just some schmuck who has a fancy hat and holds a disk?

[The Magistrate.]

That is exactly the point I intended to make.

Overruling a Parole is an illegitimate ruling. There is nothing to indicate that a Magistrate can overrule parole save for the stretched definition of sentencing that we often operate under.

Parole is a circumstance that effects the sentence. It is not a sentence in and of itself.

[The Magistrate.]

1 hour ago, SigholtStarsong said:

The Magistrate is the final word on sentencing - modifiers are part of the sentencing. This means that the Magistrate has final authority in matters of parole as well.

SOME modifiers and circumstances modify the sentence. Parole is a circumstance. If the captain Paroles someone, that is a circumstance that the Magistrate has to take into account when sentencing that person. To ignore it and say "No you don't, overruled," would be a violation of space law. Which explicitly says certain individuals can offer parole at their discretion.

To disregard that would be like saying "A Magistrate has final say on sentencing, so if you stole a multitool and they sentenced you to execution, that's ok because they're the Magistrate."

It's still ignoring space law, it's just being ignored because it's in line with common law.

[The Magistrate.]

A Warden giving time off is parole, nobody bothers to do the full rigamarole though. And it's a modified/special condition to the sentence. Meaning by it's very nature it isn't part of the sentence but something added afterwards, but even if it was that doesn't matter because the magistrate can't make rulings that violate space law.

Also it hardly makes the magistrate powerless. It just means that the one paroled gets a second chance with a short leash. They violate it and they still have to serve the suspended sentence.

[The Magistrate.]

That's my point. The Magistrate isn't supposed to care about the process of how the Parole goes about. He's not supposed to go "Well it's not an Emergency situation so that's not SoP so no." They're supposed to go "Welp. This is legal but Shady, best call the IAA to take a look at this." Thus causing MORE RP.

And the argument that rounds are too busy and hectic is simply an argument for the Magistrate and IAA to be gotten rid of entirely. Either their concept should be actually used, adapted to the way the game is played, or it should be removed.  As it is, we play under the assumption that they do nothing, until they do and it just makes things unfun except for those random once in a blue moon times where everything goes perfect. And even then, the investigations generally take so long that the round is over by the time anything has gotten done if it doesn't happen early on in the shift.

You're getting two entirely different playstyles smashing into one another.

[The Magistrate.]

 

20 hours ago, tzo said:

I disagree. I interpret "sentencing" to include anything that might be issued as a punishment for breaking Space Law, whether that be brig time, parole, implants, execution or anything else.

This means if the magistrate says someone's sentence is X, then nobody but CC can change it via any means. That includes granting parole to someone the Magistrate sentenced. Not even Captains can grant parole to someone against the wishes of the on-duty Magistrate. And really, Captains shouldn't be deciding parole questions when there is a Magistrate anyway. That's doing the Magistrate's job for them.

 

So in essence, the Captain isn't allowed to engage with Security because there's a second captain called the Magistrate that's just for security for reasons.

 

 

20 hours ago, bryanayalalugo said:

 

In the Legal SoP, under Magistrate, under Section 3, it states that Magistrates can overrule any matter concerning Space Law. Since Parole involves Space Law (I see it as a form of a "sentence" albeit without a time and with closer scrutiny) the Magistrate has a say on it, especially if they made a legitimate ruling before Security/the Captain made the ruling.

 

Stealing important items isn't really a emergency. In the cases that fall under emergency are, as defined in the General Standards Operating Procedures, is anything that is a hostile, confirmed threat, so that would include those biohazard mentioned, but also mass murderboning jerks, bombings, hostile boarding parties (Nuke Ops.) and similar would fall under it

Although ingame, the perception of red alert is often times skewed and often times is not lowered.

One line down from that statement, states that they are not above space law. Space Law says that Wardens, HoS, Captain and Magistrate can offer Parole to crewmen who are in the brig. And it also says that the Captain and the Magistrate can offer paroles to EoCs.

It ALSO says another line down from that, that the Magistrate is not to concern themselves with matters of SoP, meaning the circumstances under which the EoC is being paroled is outside of their bounds to judge. Meaning they would have to grab an IAA to go "Hey, that's not SoP." And smack the captain with the centcomm stick.

I'm not arguing that the captain should be able to do this with impunity, but that further hoops should have to be jumped through to prevent them from doing it rather than just the Magistrate shouting "No I overrule!" over sec comms. They should have to actually do some paperwork, send the IAA out, get sec officers to delay the release with protests, losing the tracking implants, and so on. There should be room for actual legal arguments and conflicts of jurisdiction and authority or we should just scrap the whole darn system. Because what's the point?