Carp spawned on me to force the round to end

[IK3I]

 

Admin Key: Unknown, probably flattestguitar

 

Your Discord name (if applicable): IK3I

 

Complaint: Around 7:00pm CST, Flattest introduced a vote for a nations round, it was a tie and he forced rev instead. I was the CE in this round and the round was ended prematurely by having a mountain of carp spawned on me.

 

The events leading up to the admin intervention:

 

Once we found out it was rev, the heads gathered at the brig while I stayed and secured the engine. When the lockdown was compromised, I retreated and eventually made it to the AI sat. Some revs teleported onto the sat and I took the tele to the first place it had without calibration. I landed in the toxins test zone. From there, I started moving to the brig and found a dead miner. I started stripping the suit to use as a disguise and xeno bio attacked the brig. I got chased off and all the heads were killed. I returned to what was left of the brig, grabbed the caps gear so I'd have all channels and all access, then proceeded to electrical maint to put on the disguise in peace. I slipped into the disguise and someone started breaking in so I went back outside the way I came to go enter through south solars.

 

The Issue:

 

On the way to the airlock in question, around 20 carp were spawned on me, forcing the round to end as I was the last surviving head. At no point was I inactive or hiding in space as was claimed. Every action had clear purpose and thus, this intervention, literally five minutes after the other heads got wiped, seemed completely unjustified, especially when you consider that I was never bwoinked or given a chance to put my strategy to use.

 

[scrubmcnoob]

 

It was noticed you were hiding in Space, being the last alive head of staff, and doing nothing relevant besides just trying to survive. Now this is fine except it holds up a bunch of players who were dead at the time.

 

It was decided, by the online administrators at the time, to drive you from space and into the station so the end round would be accelerated seeing you were in space for a very long time. It was easily determined there was no way of beating the revs given the whole station was theirs and we did not want the players to pointlessly wait for a hour.

 

The space carp migration event was forced, after agreement by online administrators, which lead to the spawning of space carp which would hopefully signal you into the station. However, you continued to stay in space and ran into a group of carp that was already spawned by the event, they weren't spawned on you. And instead of turning around and trying to get back into your hidey hole you made in the station, you ran further into even more carp.

 

Also a side note, Flattest was the one who forced Rev but left halfway through the round for bed. He had nothing to do with the end.

 

[IK3I]

 

While I appreciate the motives for the intervention, I still disagree both in the methods used and the apparent readiness to just jump straight to round ending actions without giving the player more warning, there are many ways to accelerate the round without throwing people under the bus.

 

Also, as previously stated, I was never hiding for the purpose of hiding outside of the time I spent in the engine room early on in the round. When I was chased out of the sat, I went straight to the brig and was actually making an attempt to not only survive but utilize a strategy. The only reason I was in space as long as I was, was that I got chased out of the station twice when I tried to reenter.

 

I still feel that this was a poorly made decision because it was made on an assumption and denied the remainder of the round that was forced by an admin in the first place.

 

This is something that we're probably gonna have to agree to disagree on. I never wanted action taken against anyone, but this sort of thing just seemed excessive and should at least be discussed.

 

[scrubmcnoob]

 

While I appreciate the motives for the intervention, I still disagree both in the methods used and the apparent readiness to just jump straight to round ending actions without giving the player more warning

 

If you appreciate our motive, then you must surely see our clear reasoning behind it and that some method had to be employed to complete our motive. The reasoning being quite simple, the fact that you were holding up many players as the last head when there was no feasible way of you actually taking back the station.

 

I was never hiding for the purpose of hiding

The only reason I was in space as long as I was, was that I got chased out of the station twice when I tried to reenter.

 

So you weren't hiding for the purpose of hiding but then what for? If you were continually chased out of the station and continued to stay in space, to stay safe from the Revs, sounds like you were hiding to stay alive which only just unnecessarily extends the round.

 

the apparent readiness to just jump straight to round ending actions

 

Space Carp Migration event is not round ending to any extent but rather just makes the space perimeter around the station quite dangerous. Again, they were not spawned on you but rather you floated directly into a school of five space carp. You had every chance to just throw an item, float to your hiding hole that had an entrance into maints, and get back into the station but rather you braved the space carp. The method was to drive you from hiding, which you were, and back into the station so you may meet your ultimate fate unless you really thought you could take on 50 plus revs. And if you thought this, why weren't you already fighting them?

 

I still feel that this was a poorly made decision because it was made on an assumption

 

Do you feel it was poorly made because of the way it was handled or because of the motive? You did agree with our motive enough to appreciate it, so you must clearly detest the course of action that had taken place.

May I ask, how would've you liked it to have ended? A bwoink saying you get back into space or face the wrath of gods? If anything, this is even more direct admin intervention in the round than that of space carp.

And the decision was not made on an assumption, but rather evident fact that you were hiding from all the revs and just delaying the inevitable round end.

 

This is something that we're probably gonna have to agree to disagree on. I never wanted action taken against anyone, but this sort of thing just seemed excessive and should at least be discussed.

 

If you wish to disagree on our methods for ending the round, but appreciate our motives behind it, that is your own prerogative.

But I can assure you that you were given ample time to quickly get back onto the station and not just float into a school of carp.

 

[IK3I]

 

To clarify, it is the method and time frame to the intervention I had a problem with. The decision was made in the time that it took for me to strip the captain and move to elec maint.

 

You had every chance to just throw an item, float to your hiding hole that had an entrance into maints, and get back into the station but rather you braved the space carp.

 

The statement that one could escape a carp attack by floating isn't exactly a reasonable expectation. The carp can almost keep up with a pod. Furthermore, regardless of when the event happened, when I was attacked, it was not running into a group of carp, it was running into a bunch of carp so fresh that they had not even moved from their spawn so while I saw one carp, it was actually a cluster that had not yet left their initial tile. Additionally, the carp were spawning beside and behind me, not in front of me. I had no choice but to keep moving forward because a school was behind me from the first spawn. Whether this was lag or the event triggering as I was passing, I don't know, but that's the situation I was placed in and acted accordingly.

 

May I ask, how would've you liked it to have ended?

I would've preferred you taken action after I showed that I wasn't trying to do anything productive. This isn't the first time I've seen admins end rounds after a bloodbath purely because there's a lot of dead people. If you're not gonna let a round type play out to completion, it shouldn't even be available.

 

So you weren't hiding for the purpose of hiding but then what for? If you were continually chased out of the station and continued to stay in space, to stay safe from the Revs, sounds like you were hiding to stay alive which only just unnecessarily extends the round.

 

As was previously stated, I was staying out of sight explicitly so that people wouldn't see that I was changing clothes and ID. You can't remove a hardsuit in space and expect to live very long and a disguise doesn't do any good if people see you put it on. If someone is just hiding to not be killed, they wouldn't return to the place they ran from explicitly to gather resources when the danger could still be present.

 

And the decision was not made on an assumption, but rather evident fact that you were hiding from all the revs and just delaying the inevitable round end.

 

The fact that I was in space for a period of time wasn't even noticed until the brig was bombed. From there, you acted in the time it took me to to strip the captain, run over to arrivals, get spotted, and then go to elec maint to establish a location with atmos to change. Deciding that I was just hiding instead of taking action is the definition of an assumption. As far as I can tell, the logic behind the decision was more based in the realm of getting the round to end faster than in anything I was doing.

 

Space Carp Migration event is not round ending to any extent but rather just makes the space perimeter around the station quite dangerous.

 

If you are caught by more than two carp, you're probably not even going to make it to medbay before bleeding out. All server AI controlled entities are lethal because they don't lag and they can't be dodged. Assuming you lack ranged weapons, you have a choice. You either run from them (you can't unless there's a door right next to you when they spot you) or you fight them face to face because moving increases the chances of you missing, not the other way around.

 

Additionally, you have an entire arsenal of secrets, events, and spawns, not to mention comm utilities that could've been utilized to not throw the game into an RNG ultimatum. As I'm sure you noticed, I was not the only person present that was disappointed that you decided to spawn carp because people would rather die to a BSA than a random spawn npc.

 

[necaladun]

 

Apologies, my long response just got eaten by a forum error and I"m limited for time today, so this is a faster response:

 

TL;DR - No action against scrub is necessary or required. It was done with the intent of hurrying the round up, he wasn't personally involved and biased, and it wasn't excessive like BSA or a DS would have been.

 

That being said, I utterly understand how at the time especially it would have looked completely targetted at you, especially with how the carp spawning looks. Had he spawned 20 directly on you that would be much different, but triggering a random event that had a chance of happening anyway is a much better way of handling it.

 

In this case it was done under the general idea that the needs and fun of the many outweigh those of the few. Still doesn't make it suck less to be part of that few.

 

I hope you can take this as "No rev can stop me! Only carp can!", and that it wasn't anything personal by scrub against you. Rev was removed from rotation partially for exactly this reason, as well as the huge amount of salt it creates from the dead, and the huge amount of ahelps etc.

 

[necaladun]

That being said, criticism and feedback on how to end such situations better is always welcome!

[NethIafin]

 

Well, rev is all about assuming control of the station. I don't see how stray head in space with suit that doesn't want to get back into station will stop that from happening. Revs clearly won. Maybe just require revs to hold control over bridge for 5-10 minutes? That might make some rounds fun even if heads are still alive. Imagine barricading inside the bridge and holding the onslaught of redshirts led by a Captain, just because clown got all access and he was able to let in all of the revs into bridge while heads were attending an execution.

 

JUST IMAGINE!

 

[necaladun]

 

Well, rev is all about assuming control of the station.

 

I'll ask you don't post general ideas for rev here

 

But that bit I quoted was a big part of the decision - the revs clearly had control of the station, killing the last head was a technicality stopping the round from ending.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

As a bit of a side note: putting a head of staff on a different Z-level is pretty much the same as murdering them in the revolution roundtype. Had you just left the stations's Z-level the round would have ended by itself immediately.

 

The difference there is purely an out-of-character one and the round was definitely supposed to end as per the gamemode's design, but in that situation it's actually impossible to force it to end without calling some eldritch procs from the depths of our code.

 

If the admins online (I'm not even sure if it was Scrub that did this) wanted to end the round quickly to avoid stalling for 90-something players, the only way to do that was to either kill the only head of staff left in space or move them to a different z-level.

 

[IK3I]

 

Three Things:

 

One:

I was never in pursuit of punishment or any action against an admin because the motives were reasonable. My only problem was the time frame to act and the choice of action. My goal in the complaint was purely to create a proper discussion because the events that took place seemed rushed.

 

Two:

I don't really know the best way to go about accelerating a round, but things that can kill a player without being interactive are an issue. I would've been happy if you just dropped an advanced pinpointer on the rev head with some cheesy nonsense about helping the revolution.

 

Three:

I think this is as far along as it's going to get with my input, so feel free to close it when you're done unless you need something from me.

 

[necaladun]

 

1 - I think I misread that and the goal. Considering some of the...salt, we get here, I assume otherwise. Thanks for cleaning it up - feedback on these kind of things is always welcome, and we're looking into making some boards for feedback and review without the "complaint" side of things.

 

2 - ...advanced pinpointers are a really good idea for that, thanks.

 

3 - Done. Feel free to make discussion/suggestion posts if you think up anything more to say.