Engineering as Plasmaman

[davidchan]

 

This isn't a matter of 'it's a racial debuff', it only applies to one job, and that job actually NEEDS that perk to perform part of its job.

 

Except they don't.

Being "Tesla-immune" inside your suit is in no way required for any part of of Engineering, other then a Tesla engine getting loose, which frankly, is not something any race should just be able to go "lolimmune" at just by nature of existing.

 

There is always that fancy singulo engine sitting right there, and the engineering suits DO get Radiation reduction/immunity just like normal hardsuits do. They have an alternative.

To say they "need" it to do their job, is a very big exaggeration. If it is a bug/forgotten factoid during a port is probably true, it's almost definitely not intended, but it's something that should not and does not need to be changed, and actually means an alien race in a job slot has to change shit up, has to be taken into consideration and thus changes the game. Something we could use a lot fucking more of.

 

The comparison to IPC was in the fact that, the singulo engine puts off EMPs like no tomorrow and for ages we did not have a Tesla engine to speak of. But the fact that IPC engineers could not go NEAR the engine, didn't really change anything, they got no special treatment. You just had to deal with the fact you weren't as good at engineering as a human, mechanically speaking. The same applies here. Your suit is not Tesla-proof. You just have to work around that.

 

Atmos techs NEED the fire immunity, since fire duty is their only real job right now, and there is no real alternative way to approach a fire then "Put it out." and deal with the heat as you fix the room

Security needs the extra padding for antag duty and dealing with shitty greytide. They have no alternative, this is their one job.

Miners need the bomb and melee immunity for their encounters with Gibtonite and Xenos. Because while gibtonite can be avoided, Xenos are at every corner. Technically this can be avoided though.

Engineers do NOT need to be immune to a rampaging engine that they failed to contain/Was sabotaged. They can just use the OTHER engine. They have a perfectly viable alternative.

 

 

You're failing to see the logic that this entire thread is about an oversight. There was never an intentional exclusion to Engineer and Chief Engineer Plasmen in terms of tesla bolts. Every other plasmamen suit is identical to the parent job's hardsuit where applicable.

 

It is definitely an equipment requirement for engineers to have Tesla protection, as they are going to be the ones expected to maintain the engine if a meteor strikes containment, sabotage or incompetence could result in containment failure, and if containment does fail it is Engineering's job to get Grounding Rods in place around escape to minimize the damage to crew should Tesla go that direction.

 

And yes, IPCs are still apples and oranges to this discussion. Tesla Protection is part of the Engineering Hardsuit itself when combined with Insulated Gloves. There literally is no item in the game that provides EMP protection, so there is no call for IPCs to get EMP protection. It's in their racial profile to be weak and vulnerable to EMPs, just as Drask are vulnerable to hot temperatures, Vox are vulnerable to Oxygen poisoning and Diona are weak to herbicide and darkness. Tesla vulnerablility is NOT a racial weakness, nor should it be considered one. It is a very specific job hazard and players going into that job have an expectancy that their gear will function on par with those of their colleagues regardless of species.

 

 

TL;DR IPCs have always been, and always will be Special Snowflakes, do not use them as a standard or an excuse for unreasonably removing or withholding attributes from another species's racial gear.

 

[Sothangel]

Well, since they actually are hardsuits as I was corrected on, it makes most sense for them to be brought into line. I still think it'd be much more interesting if they didn't have the tesla-proofing though.

[improvedname]

 

Engineering plasmaman comfirmed powercreeps

high rad immunity

Teslaproof(not yet)

Spaceproof

Pressureproof

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Well, since they actually are hardsuits as I was corrected on, it makes most sense for them to be brought into line. I still think it'd be much more interesting if they didn't have the tesla-proofing though.

 

Basically my point.

It may originate from an unintended oversight, but it provides more interesting gameplay then what the fix would make.

 

At least then there's at least SOME semblance of a decision to be made about what engine to use.

 

[davidchan]

 

Engineering plasmaman comfirmed powercreeps

high rad immunity

Teslaproof(not yet)

Spaceproof

Pressureproof

 

Literally identical to every other engineer on the station?

 

[PrototypeNitro]

 

@Dinarzad I don't think it's interesting when you CAN'T do anything one the engine. Just say on common. "Sorry I'm a Plasmen I can't do anything on the engine, please call the shuttle".

 

Like Meatyore or anything else. It's Engineering job to secure containment and Extra contrainment (Reinforced walls). Another exemple: CE is an IPC - "We are going tesla guys." Wew another shift with no possible maintenance on the engine.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

@Dinarzad I don't think it's interesting when you CAN'T do anything one the engine. Just say on common. "Sorry I'm a Plasmen I can't do anything on the engine, please call the shuttle".

 

Like Meatyore or anything else. It's Engineering job to secure containment and Extra contrainment (Reinforced walls). Another exemple: CE is an IPC - "We are going tesla guys." Wew another shift with no possible maintenance on the engine.

 

Aaand that's no different then an IPC engineer being totally unable to do anything on the singulo. To which it has never been a serious complaint.

If a plasmaman is trying to call the shuttle cuz, "lol sorry I can't do my job."

Then politely inform him the singularity engine exists, to quit slacking off and do his job or he can freely give it up to someone else who WILL do it for him. If the engine was picked to be Tesla before he arrived or it's over his head, then he's not the ONLY engineer and someone else can maintain it. JJJJJJJJJJJJJust like an IPC with a singulo engine...

 

Again. You're either against both or not at all, let's stick to just one single standard we have no need for two. Either IPCs being unable to work on the singularity is ALSO a problem, or Plasmamen being unable to work on the Tesla engine isn't one. Because they're the same thing, it's just the origination of the problem is different. One is an innate racial trait, the other is a suit issue.

The end result is "If you are X then Engine Y = not viable." in both scenarios

You either fix both, or learn to live with it. It offers more gameplay choice and variety.

 

It's engineering's job to to both start and maintain the engine, and make repairs to station as needed, as well as construction when needed. All of which is still... perfectly capable of both plasmamen and IPC to do... So long as it is one particular engine type. And if the CE in charge disregards the fact his team is plasmamen and makes a Tesla, that's... his own fucking fault for being a dipshit, no?

Like a HoP assigning all of mining as Kidans, and then being mad when mining goes slow because they can't wear mesons.

 

[davidchan]

 

I don't understand why you are strawmanning so hard with IPCs and EMPS here, Tesla makes EMPs too just in a smaller radius.

 

And even if we take the IPC argument as valid the IPCs are balanced out by their radiation immunity, which the singulo can permastun anyone near contaiment without a suit. If IPCs got emp protection it would also severely nerf every traitor ability and item that creates an EMP.

 

Further more, plasmamen are stuck in the hardsuit they spawn in, so job changes as one are generally discouraged and exceptionally inconvienent, where as any other race can swap uniforms and get the full benefit of their new jobs equipment and hardsuit function.

 

Your argument for taking away basic functionality to the specific gear given to one job so that they can do that job doesn't make any sense, especially when you are trying to use another unrelated race balanced around a specific vulnerability not related to the topic as justification.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

I don't understand why you are strawmanning so hard with IPCs and EMPS here, Tesla makes EMPs too just in a smaller radius.

 

I'm really actually not. I was... pretty clear in my other post.

If a Plasmaman being "Unable to work on the tesla" due to his suit is a huge problem ,to the point of "Uselessness"

Then an IPC engineer being unable to work on the singularity is ALSO "Critical" and should be changed, no?

Because it's the same problem. The origins of that problem are not the same. But the end result is "I can't do X because I am Y."

Because if one is a problem, then so is the other, and you can't just say "Well THAT one is okay! But this is TOTALLY broken!" when the only difference in the result is how the product was assembled to get there.

 

Your argument for taking away basic functionality to the specific gear given to one job so that they can do that job doesn't make any sense, especially when you are trying to use another unrelated race balanced around a specific vulnerability not related to the topic as justification.

 

Unless you are intentionally trying to misinterpret everything I have said or have just been skimming posts, that is, not even REMOTELY close to what I have been saying. At all. By ANY scope of imagination.

It provides more interesting gameplay then what the fix would make.

 

I am using IPCs as an illustration, not an argument to buff IPCs (Which should be obvious since I have made several addendums to please NOT actually buff IPCs.) It is strictly a comparison that being "Useless" because they can't go out and do Tesla engine maintenance/repair is absolutely fucking laughable. Because IPCs and Engineering Borgs have been in that boat since inception and they get through life JUST fine.

They don't need it to "Do their job." Any more then IPCs need EMP shielding to do THEIR job when a singularity is being used. You WANT it, because it makes life easier, but that's very different then a REQUIREMENT.

 

It's not "Critical" it be changed, in fact it is MORE interesting and fun to leave it UNCHANGED because then it provides some fuckin gameplay differences and actually means engineering teams with plasmamen on staff, have to make a more interesting choice on what engine to use, isntead of just "lol tesla"

 

[davidchan]

 

I don't understand why you are strawmanning so hard with IPCs and EMPS here, Tesla makes EMPs too just in a smaller radius.

 

I'm really actually not. I was... pretty clear in my other post.

If a Plasmaman being "Unable to work on the tesla" due to his suit is a huge problem ,to the point of "Uselessness"

Then an IPC engineer being unable to work on the singularity is ALSO "Critical" and should be changed, no?

Because it's the same problem. The origins of that problem are not the same. But the end result is "I can't do X because I am Y."

Because if one is a problem, then so is the other, and you can't just say "Well THAT one is okay! But this is TOTALLY broken!" when the only difference in the result is how the product was assembled to get there.

 

Except its a racial trait that affects all IPCs and is part of their lore and logic. Tesla protection is part of the engineering loadout. There is no other example of 'this item normally does this, but not for your species' You are simply taking one thing completely out of context to hamper another species?

 

Everyone who is close to the Singularity WILL take damage in some form or another, be it radiation or EMPs, this includes people with prosthetic limbs.

 

X does not equal Y here, and your circle logic that it does isn't making your argument any better or even valid.

 

Your argument for taking away basic functionality to the specific gear given to one job so that they can do that job doesn't make any sense, especially when you are trying to use another unrelated race balanced around a specific vulnerability not related to the topic as justification.

 

Unless you are intentionally trying to misinterpret everything I have said or have just been skimming posts, that is, not even REMOTELY close to what I have been saying. At all. By ANY scope of imagination.

 

Except you are. Because IPCs don't get EMP protection as engineers, you feel that Plasmamen shouldn't get Tesla protection, which is ACTUALLY a function of the Engineering hardsuit, because of some half baked reason that it adds variety?

 

It provides more interesting gameplay then what the fix would make.

 

It does not add interesting gameplay. It's a poorly guised attempt at hamstringing an entire species. Singularity isn't safe for anyone to work on, everyone either takes Radiation damage OR EMPs. Tesla on the other hand IS safe to work on and less destructive. Why should one species be singled out? That's not interesting gameplay, that's just trying to punish another species because you don't like them.

 

I am using IPCs as an illustration, not an argument to buff IPCs (Which should be obvious since I have made several addendums to please NOT actually buff IPCs.) It is strictly a comparison that being "Useless" because they can't go out and do Tesla engine maintenance/repair is absolutely fucking laughable. Because IPCs and Engineering Borgs have been in that boat since inception and they get through life JUST fine.

They don't need it to "Do their job." Any more then IPCs need EMP shielding to do THEIR job when a singularity is being used. You WANT it, because it makes life easier, but that's very different then a REQUIREMENT.

 

As already stated, Hardsuits and Plasmmen Suits are supposed to be functionally identical. To arbitrarily remove a function of a job related suit from a plasmen suit, for no reason other than because an unrelated and differently balanced species has a weakness to a different part of the job, is not good balance, and just a terrible idea.

 

And yes, it WOULD be a massive buff to IPCs if they got EMP protection from hardsuits, as already stated this affects a broad area of the game and several antags. Changing engineering hardsuits to give IPCs protection against emps would only cause IPCs to regularly steal them, or any antag interested in abusing EMP effects without damaging their own equipment.

 

Tesla bolts aren't utilized by antags and are primarily an engineering concern for that reason. The entire design of the Tesla is to make an engine that was easy to work on and safe to maintain if things get bad but not entirely lost yet. Then why would we make it so that the one species that can't just throw on a hardsuit and run out to fix the problem be the only species not protected by this? You're literally saying it should be better for a moonlighter to steal a hardsuit and run out and fix the problem than the actual engineer because he's a plasmaman.

 

It's not "Critical" it be changed, in fact it is MORE interesting and fun to leave it UNCHANGED because then it provides some fuckin gameplay differences and actually means engineering teams with plasmamen on staff, have to make a more interesting choice on what engine to use, isntead of just "lol tesla"

 

This is infact a Critical change as the OP clearly stated that the engine got loose BECAUSE he was the only one who could respond and could not approach the engine without dying, despite every other piece of information in the game stating that HE SHOULD be able to safely approach. Having an engine release because one species in particular is being denied the basic functionality of their equipment is not balanced, it's not interesting, and it's supported by any form of logic.

 

TL;DR don't take away or withold the basic functions of job specific equipment from species because LUL INTERESTING. Unless you want to see stupid shit like insuls not working for specific races or only humans able to wear gasmasks.

 

[improvedname]

I mean they cant still set up the engine but as again the engineering job requires coordination if you dont have this coordination you wont be save the station like a plasmaman engineer knowing the station is in danger and is the only one that tries to fix it the station be doomed

[Dinarzad]

 

I had a really long ass post in here, but it's... genuinely not worth the effort anymore. I'm not budging and neither are you.

 

What I WILL Say though, is that saying I was "Singling out" plasmamen just cuz I don;t like them and thus hatched a dark and sinister plan to piss in everyone's cheerios because of that, is flat out an ad hominem attack to bypass my argument and attack my character and supposed "Motivations" directly. And is primarily bullshit, since I've been saving up KP for months now to actually BUY the species so I can play as one. In fact if anything I'm annoyed they're so expensive an it's taking so long

 

But.

yeah, hey cool whatever, man. I mean I guess you win the debate or something by default since I'm throwing in the towel and giving in to apathy on the matter so.

Insert fireworks here or something.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Guest

[davidchan]

 

Kidans have job wide inability to get glasses, not restricted from using specific eyewear or equipment used by one departmental job. They can how ever get implants if science does their job.

 

IPCs weak to EMP is their thing across all fields. It makes sense because robot. Engineering borgs have the exact same flaw.

 

Plasmen not able to replicate the functionality of a hardsuit when their primary choice of clothing is hardsuit?

 

Strawman harder.

 

This has nothing to do with what the other weakness of a species has, this has everything to do with an item feature being with held from one specific group for one specific job. For No Reason.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Kidans have job wide inability to get glasses, not restricted from using specific eyewear or equipment used by one departmental job. They can how ever get implants if science does their job.

 

IPCs weak to EMP is their thing across all fields. It makes sense because robot. Engineering borgs have the exact same flaw.

 

Plasmen not able to replicate the functionality of a hardsuit when their primary choice of clothing is hardsuit?

 

Strawman harder.

 

This has nothing to do with what the other weakness of a species has, this has everything to do with an item feature being with held from one specific group for one specific job. For No Reason.

 

That's not what a Strawman is. I never misrepresented your argument or points to make them easier to attack. If anything YOU have been strawmanning ME continually.

What I did was set up a comparison of two situations, using IPCs inability to do something as a comparative point for Plasmamen inability to do something.

But writing off an entire argument because of a presumed Strawman (Which I disagree with, but we'll assume for sake of argument it's there and I don;t see it.) Is in itself a fallacy

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

 

Now if you don't LIKE my comparative illustrations, then cool beans. I'm sorry to hear it, but whatever. As per the edit to my previous stupid long post, I've thrown up the white flag for the war of attrition, you win or whatever.

You wanna go ahead an say how an where I Strawman'd a strawman while I was manning straws, you knock yourself out, cuz I'd love to know, but 'm probably not gonna respond further cuz it's cloggin' shit up.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

Being teslaproof is mandatory for engine maintenance, in the case of emitters being turned off.

 

In the suggestion even, the engine got loose *because* they didn't have tesla immunity.

 

I'm just going to repeat myself here.

 

It's an oversight.

 

The Tesla was added in after plasmamen and the engineering version of the plasmaman suit was never updated for it.

 

[PrototypeNitro]

Like Shadeykins say. plasmen have suit. Why this suit is not teslaproof ?

[duckchan]

i don't understand the logic in wanting to keep plasmamen from working on the tesla. i mean, it's not like they are super buffed. they are space worthy, okay that's a decent buff, but so are vox, and and vox can work on the engine. so what's the issue?

[improvedname]

Who cares if it isnt teslaproof its like saying that kidans should start with job specifical implants

[improvedname]

 

Races have their flaws and positives and the plasmaman is not being to operate tesla PERIOD

 

I mean he still can set it up but he cant go back into the field when its active like ipcs cant go back when sing is active

 

[Shadeykins]

 

Races have their flaws and positives and the plasmaman is not being to operate tesla PERIOD

 

I mean he still can set it up but he cant go back into the field when its active like ipcs cant go back when sing is active

 

Being teslaproof is mandatory for engine maintenance, in the case of emitters being turned off.

 

In the suggestion even, the engine got loose *because* they didn't have tesla immunity.

 

I'm just going to repeat myself here.

 

It's an oversight.

 

The Tesla was added in after plasmamen and the engineering version of the plasmaman suit was never updated for it.

 

Also, nobody can go into the sing when it's active because no suit provides 100 radiation resistance, on top of being space proof.

 

Tesla was added in after plasmamen were, the suit was never looked at. Plasmamen already have a myriad of cons, and this isn't even remotely a "global buff". It's literally adding tesla immunity to two variants of the suit, suits which can't be obtained from anything other than spawning in at the start of the round.

 

Who cares if it isnt teslaproof its like saying that kidans should start with job specifical implants

 

No, it isn't. But nice strawman.

 

[sdtwbaj]

voxxy can SKREEE