Streaky's hopefully low-code pAI suggestions.

[Streaky Haddock]

 

Hopefully these suggestions won't be too strenuous on the coders.

 

Allow pAIs to hide beneath surfaces when unfolded, so they can be discrete listeners if they cannot be hidden somewhere.

 

Give pAIs a flashlight, so they may flash them to attract attention to their master's body, boost their master's radiance, or to scout that dark scary room in the gateway.

 

Allow unfolded pAIs to open doors, so they do not get trapped behind an all-access hallway door, and allow them to enter/leave the gateway so they can get help for their stupid, stupid, stupid master after he gets himself killed.

 

Allow pAIs to travel at human speed, so they can follow their master without being dragged.

 

Allow pAIs to ventcrawl. This allows a pAI to get help during a telecomms blackout, and given they have no accesses and cannot pick/drag items and can be passed through like drones, I don't see this being a problem.

 

Upgrade the pAI's bioscanner. Give it the power of a full body scanner, and allow them to print out a record. This gives them an edge over a full health analyser.

 

[Munks]

Arent pAIs just meant to be a fun thing and not have a terribly huge impact on the round itself? All of these would give a huge advantage to people who have a friend willing to pAI for them

[Streaky Haddock]

Yes. Because I feel pAIs should be useful, but instead of making them into positronics who can fit into all sorts of things, I feel their skillset should be communication and information. pAIs should be able to tell their master anything they want to know, including sacrificing themselves to illuminate a potential ambusher, to call paramedics to their bodies, or to tell them whether the surgeon fucked up and their organs are shutting down due to a surgical infection.

[Streaky Haddock]

i also feel that instead of slotting into mechs and simple bots, they should instead be able to slot into laptops and be able to have radio encryption keys put in them but that's not my mission right now, ONE STEP AT A TIME.

[MickyD47]

I was going to suggest that they be able to inherit the access and comms of their master.

[Streaky Haddock]

 

Micky, that suggestion has been shuttled around for years at multiple communities and gone nowhere.

 

Start small, micky. START SMALL.

 

[Coldflame]

 

Here's a few suggestions:

-Access to comms channels using encryption keys or the carrier's access.

-Ability to modify sec/med records if authorized by someone with the requisite access.

-Crew monitoring console (not sure if they have this already or not).

-Read and respond to PDA messages sent to carrier.

 

[Farya]

 

I think PAI could also server as co-pilot inside mech/pod. You slot it inside mech/pod and pAI would be allowed to see mech status such as integrity, cell charge, ammo e.t.c Nothing more. Its just a small informant after all.

Also would be good to give pAI robotist HUD.

 

[Doukan]

 

They're living death alarms, people already make a point of grabbing them for their "HALP MASTA BEIN KILLED" properties.

Don't get me wrong these would be cool features, they'd just suck ass for anyone who tried anything and make pAIs even more of a must-have thing.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

I'm against the ventcrawling and walking speed. PAIs are already stupidly strong in the fact that if your target has one, it's basically impossible to kill him cleanly. Telecomms blackouts are meant to be a godsend for antags, where it's impossibly hard to relay information unless you're prepared. In fact, that's the only reasonable way to kill someone who possesses a PAI (since last I checked for whatever reason EMPs don't work well on them). As for the walking speed, PAIs aren't meant to always be walking around with their owner. If you want them to keep up just put them in your damn pocket.

 

And before anyone says that taking a whole one minute to walk to science and ask for a PAI counts as being "prepared", it really doesn't. For how easy a PAI is to get it should remain weak.

 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Guest

[MickyD47]

Something to consider if any changes made are going to be too strong you could just make pAI harder to get. Also on the subject of records please let pAI search them rather than just having a list. I was once the pAI of a detective and picked the sec records module in order to help my master check prints without having to go back to his office but with it being a list this was impossible.

[Farya]

At round start there is just two pAIs as I remember. And RnD can print more pretty soon using only metal and glass. Maybe make pAI require Gold to make or maybe make an improved version of pAI which would have that additions and would be more costly to create.

[MickyD47]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too or maybe have an pAI upgrade module they could make later. Maybe even let you [spoiler2]emag[/spoiler2] pAIs. Im sure something fun could come of it!

[Farya]

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking too or maybe have an pAI upgrade module they could make later. Maybe even let you [spoiler2]emag[/spoiler2] pAIs. Im sure something fun could come of it!

Emag pAI to give it secret directives which could not be removed even when identity is wiped and owner changed. So you can emag comdom emag and order it to spy on him.

Or maybe it would allow it to snoop on cameras when connected to camera terminal with cable of doorjack.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

And before anyone says that taking a whole one minute to walk to science and ask for a PAI counts as being "prepared", it really doesn't. For how easy a PAI is to get it should remain weak.

 

There's only a VERY finite initial spawn of pAI and Nerfing the cost of their production is a very small price to pay to make pAI actually interesting.

 

Because presently, spawning as a pAI is less activity then just being an assistant with a station-bounced radio (Which are dime a dozen in the fuck tons of emergency toolboxes all over maintenance or in the several O2 lockers).

 

Especially since nowadays, ghosts have gotten *WAY* Better respawn alternatives. Xenobiology mobs, Holoparasites, Golems have always been there, Positronic brains (Though they're harder to print out now.) The Nanotrasen minebot for miners who slot in the upgrade, yadda yadda yadda.

 

All those compared to a Secretary who cannot be a secretary and that cannot open even basic access doors that even Terminated crew can open.

pAI don't need to be Station AI: Pocket Edition. But giving them minor shit like flashlights or makin 'em tiny living encyclopedias as their niche sort is ... really not going to impact a round anymore then they already do.

 

And if the "but lifing darth alurm is 2 op 4 skool" is a pressing concern, is there no way to make their communications instead act like a regular headset instead of a station bounced radio? So if T-comms is cut, pAI can't scream. (Might also enable the ability to insert headset keys into said pAI to enable those channels. Tator pAI able to monitor all comms an coordinate tators via Syndi-comms, pls.)

 

[Streaky Haddock]

Alright. Maybe pAIs die when their masters die?

[Doukan]

 

I shouldn't have to need to skrek tcomms just to murder one guy.

 

You can always just wear a mask and be 2fast4sec, still though I've had multiple experiences with targets having pAIs and it's always, always "ANTAG MCSYNDIE IS KILLING TARGET MCDED IN MURDERPLACE SEND HALP HE WEARIN LEATHER SATCHEL AND WHITE SHOES".

 

They're literally living death alarms, I know folks like to RP them and they're marginally helpful for paperwork and such, but that's all secondary to their primary function of being a fucking foghorn, making them harder to produce won't make much difference either as science inevitably end up swimming in materials if mining are half decent.

 

The quality of life stuff (hiding/flashlight) is fair enough and should probably be in already, they shouldn't be able to open doors though (I forsee a lot of lynch mobs having an easier time) and their speed is fine as it is, it's been stated by the admins several times that they're supposed to be minor roles, they shouldn't have real responsibilities IMO.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

And before anyone says that taking a whole one minute to walk to science and ask for a PAI counts as being "prepared", it really doesn't. For how easy a PAI is to get it should remain weak.

 

There's only a VERY finite initial spawn of pAI and Nerfing the cost of their production is a very small price to pay to make pAI actually interesting.

 

Because presently, spawning as a pAI is less activity then just being an assistant with a station-bounced radio (Which are dime a dozen in the fuck tons of emergency toolboxes all over maintenance or in the several O2 lockers).

 

Especially since nowadays, ghosts have gotten *WAY* Better respawn alternatives. Xenobiology mobs, Holoparasites, Golems have always been there, Positronic brains (Though they're harder to print out now.) The Nanotrasen minebot for miners who slot in the upgrade, yadda yadda yadda.

 

All those compared to a Secretary who cannot be a secretary and that cannot open even basic access doors that even Terminated crew can open.

pAI don't need to be Station AI: Pocket Edition. But giving them minor shit like flashlights or makin 'em tiny living encyclopedias as their niche sort is ... really not going to impact a round anymore then they already do.

 

And if the "but lifing darth alurm is 2 op 4 skool" is a pressing concern, is there no way to make their communications instead act like a regular headset instead of a station bounced radio? So if T-comms is cut, pAI can't scream. (Might also enable the ability to insert headset keys into said pAI to enable those channels. Tator pAI able to monitor all comms an coordinate tators via Syndi-comms, pls.)

 

You literally need Electromagnetic, Data Theory, and maybe Material techs at 2 to be able to make a PAI. Nothing you suggested is even NEAR how easy that is to make.

 

PAI's aren't meant to be terribly interesting simply because you aren't supposed to be rewarded for being dead, and quite frankly I don't see how these changes would make PAI more interesting either. Other than being able to escape and quite literally fuck the antag that just successfully murdered their target (Which they should NOT be able to do) there's no point to the changes.

 

Also, you all seem to forget that up until a while ago PAI's didn't even have a mobile form. The reason for that is because they're not meant to leave their master's side.

 

I'm alright with smaller changes like giving them a flashlight, or even the full body scanner, and that's because it goes with the original intention of PAIs staying near their master and assisting in very basic functions that relate to their well-being. They should not, however, be able to roam the station and vents however they please.

 

[Streaky Haddock]

That's fair. I just want pAIs to have something to do, even if it's just updating their records and keeping hold of all their notes.

[Da Dman234]

 

That's fair. I just want pAIs to have something to do, even if it's just updating their records and keeping hold of all their notes.

Tiny things like that are totally reasonable, but bar a huge change to them I don't think they're going to be quite as interesting as you and others would like... I think you can still maybe put them it simple bots (other than the ED), have you tried that?

 

[Streaky Haddock]

Yeah, but that goes against the nature of 'personal' AI, at least to me.

[Dinarzad]

 

Wall of Replies, pls be prepared, there is no TL;DR on this train, because the lever broke an I can't fix it send help.

 

You literally need Electromagnetic, Data Theory, and maybe Material techs at 2 to be able to make a PAI. Nothing you suggested is even NEAR how easy that is to make.

Ahem.

"There's only a VERY finite initial spawn of pAI and Nerfing the cost of their production is a very small price to pay to make pAI actually interesting."

Ain't exactly anything preventing anyone from changing it's production values to be a little pricier or the tecg ti be harder to reach then what it is now. Or both.

PAI's aren't meant to be terribly interesting simply because you aren't supposed to be rewarded for being dead, and quite frankly I don't see how these changes would make PAI more interesting either.

"You shouldn't be rewarded for being dead".

I didn't know SS13 was a "Leaderboard" type of game where it was a competition and we had to punish people for things, so when can I expect the removal of Drones, Xenobiology mobs, golems, holoparasites, Positronic brains and such on? Because those all take ghosts and either you observed at the start to get those or you died. Identical to pAI in every way, some people DO Observe to join as a pAI from round-start.

 

Also please explain to me how being able to open basic access doors that, again, even TERMINATED CREW CAN OPEN and being able to be a flashlight or a scanner is in anyway going to "Fuck the antags" because I don't understand how that's even POSSIBLE, and it sounds kind of like a knee-jerk reaction to "Pls don't buff living death alarms".

Vent crawling was literally only brought up once, and frankly I don't think it's needed.

Also, you all seem to forget that up until a while ago PAI's didn't even have a mobile form. The reason for that is because they're not meant to leave their master's side.

Correct. Except pAI in their mobile form, are slower then their master, so they actually CAN'T stay by their master's side, especially when said master walks into the bar, and the hallway airlock closed behind them and you have to stare pitifully as even fucking Ian can open those and you can't. I also preferred the holographic forms, but we're probably not gonna re-acquire thooooooose.

---------------

I shouldn't have to need to skrek tcomms just to murder one guy.

You don't have to. But then it's not much different then killing a guy right next to his friend and being super shocked when his friend is screaming about how you're murdering him. And it's not like EMPs are in terribly short supply among antagonists, I mean the only ones who DON'T get some form of EMP effect are really just Vamps an S-lings.

It's been stated by the admins several times that they're supposed to be minor roles

Which is funny because every other "Minor role" in the game, is more involved or interesting then current iteration pAI. Drones get to talk to each other freely, build almost freely as well as do engineering work almost on the grade of an engineering borg itself. Golems can do anything a fuckin human can do more or less and I have personally been a sentient spider born from a traitor xenobiologist an started a spider uprising/invasion.

Those are all "Minor Roles" and all "Reward you for being dead."

Just because it's a minor role that isn't meant to have sweeping impact on the round, doesn't mean you have to make them gimped as fuck in both utility or quality of life, it just means you're never gonna quite match up to a human crew member (OR silicon one) and that's ... not what anything here is asking. It's asking for minor things like information based modules, scanners an the like or the ability to speak on the master's radio channel or respond to their PDAs. You know. Secretary things, that they cannot currently do because you can't be a secretary as a secretarial/information unit.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

I didn't know SS13 was a "Leaderboard" type of game where it was a competition and we had to punish people for things, so when can I expect the removal of Drones, Xenobiology mobs, golems, holoparasites, Positronic brains and such on?

 

Nobody mentioned anything about leaderboards, and I think it's fairly obvious that death should carry a penalty, so this is an argument I'm not even going to bother to make.

Every single example you gave has a severe penalty bound to their gameplay. Drones and Posibrains are bound by harshly enforced laws, Xenobiology has no access and are bound to their master (as well as being decently hard to get, to the point where you see them maybe 1/3 rounds), and holoparasites are bound to their master unable to so much as leave their sight.

 

Also please explain to me how being able to open basic access doors that, again, even TERMINATED CREW CAN OPEN and being able to be a flashlight or a scanner is in anyway going to "Fuck the antags" because I don't understand how that's even POSSIBLE, and it sounds kind of like a knee-jerk reaction to "Pls don't buff living death alarms".

 

I find it funny you speak of knee-jerk reactions, when you're quite literally picking out one part of my post when I very clearly stated later on that I'd be more than ok with both a flashlight and scanner. I'm going to repeat my point earlier, PAI's should not leave their master's side.

 

I'm alright with smaller changes like giving them a flashlight, or even the full body scanner, and that's because it goes with the original intention of PAIs staying near their master and assisting in very basic functions that relate to their well-being. They should not, however, be able to roam the station and vents however they please.

 

Correct. Except pAI in their mobile form, are slower then their master, so they actually CAN'T stay by their master's side, especially when said master walks into the bar, and the hallway airlock closed behind them and you have to stare pitifully as even fucking Ian can open those and you can't. I also preferred the holographic forms, but we're probably not gonna re-acquire thooooooose.

 

There's this crazy thing you can do called picking them up. Ian can't be picked up and placed in your pocket, speak in an understandable language, and is not meant to be bound solely to the HoP's office. It's completely unfair to compare two things when they're meant for two different things and have inherently different abilities.

 

[Kirbyroth]

 

I was going to suggest that they be able to inherit the access and comms of their master.

This could actually be easily doable if use mech code. Before airlock could scan your id when you were in mech you had to manually load your access into it for you to be able go though doors. PAI could download ID scanner module then all you have to use your id on the PAI and it will load your access to it. Very useful if using an agent ID cards.

 

For coms maybe have a slot open then insert a spare radio in it and PAI can exact the radio keys from it.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Drones and Posibrains are bound by harshly enforced laws

"Have no responsibility" is not a very harsh law. Enforced, sure, but it's REALLY not a harsh one. And Posibrain has the same laws as all cyborgs, but that's just it. you return to the match as a fuckin CYBORG. That's basically a respawn button given cyborgs are a round-start role you can spawn into. Not to mention as a positronic brain you might not even be Borged, I see plenty of posi-brains be turned into a new flippin Station AI or Piloted Mechs.

That's not very "Death is a penalty" unless we start REALLY nitpicking around what "Is or is not a punishment" due to the law restrictions. You're still a walkin, talkin, RP'n robot who has defined jobs an roles.

 

And really, Death shouldn't be a "Penalty", at least not in THIS sense. There's no "I WON SS13!" Because there's nothing to win or lose or to punish, the name of the game is roleplay, even Goonstation and other low RP servers still have roleplay in there to a degree, the objectives of both crew and antags are ther eto push roleplay along, Antags are ther eto spice up the round to make for roleplay beyond "Work Simulator 2556". Having a "Penalty" is that you died and can't be cloned, why do we need more punishment then that? What purpose does it serve to point at people and go "He died, he's terribad, he shouldn't be allowed anymore fun."

 

I'm going to repeat my point earlier, PAI's should not leave their master's side

Setting things on tables happen, people forget to grab things, it happens a lot. Basic all-access door access is NOT asking for the moon, nor is it asking for the ability to wander the station freely. We're talking the ability to wander Hallways and the Dorms.

 

There's this crazy thing you can do called picking them up. Ian can't be picked up and placed in your pocket, speak in an understandable language, and is not meant to be bound solely to the HoP's office. It's completely unfair to compare two things when they're meant for two different things and have inherently different abilities.

No. They are not different. pAI are just "Minor roles" for dead people to occupy to faff around without responsibility and waste time right? Well that's the SAME ROLE as what respawning as a simple mob is for, to faff around an give dead people/observers something minor to screw with to occupy themselves.

Only one of them can "Freely wander the Station" as well as manipulate objects (I have personally seen Ian's make a fuckin yakkity sax with objects to keep them away from antags or deliver shit to security.) Ian may not be able to talk (Without using some weird bugs.) But he can do way more then that. Ian can drag PEOPLE. AWAY From Antags or from dangers. You know how many times I have watched that corgi haul in a dead HoP to medical?

 

The ONLY APPRECIABLE difference, is one has an in-built radio and doesn't need to do glitchy exploits to speak human words.