block1
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Posts posted by block1
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Well than you obviously didn't read anything I wrote. What you and streaky said was directly responded to in both argument and both options to reduce both meta-grudges and griefing.
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:!: Other thread is being removed at my request. I only want to focus on spiders since they have a lot more mechanics behind them. :!:
Spiders are no longer playable and can only be computer-controlled (npc). For a long, long while spiders have always been playable but due to the recent amount of players using the spider to grief they've been disabled indefinitely.
I feel as if this decision is extremely un-fair to the rest of the playerbase that enjoyed being able to be a spider or fight against them. They had a large amount of work, scripting and mechanics behind them that made playing them a newish experience.
My primary suggestion is to re-enable spiders and put some restrictions on them such as white-listing them and putting a cooldown on how long it'll take before you can respawn again as a spider.
Option A
Whitelisting. Whitelisting is the process of having to apply to be allowed to play a certain role, creature, etc. It's extremely easy to enable a white-list however it will take the effort of the mentors, admins and above to review whitelist applications to play as this certain role and either approve it or decline it.
This method is the most optimal and guarantees little to no grief however as I said it will require a sub-forum to apply, mentors and admins actively reviewing the applications and someone with basic knowledge to add a players ckey to the whitelist.
Option B
Cooldowns. This method will also reduce the amount of grief but not completely eliminate it. If you die as a spider you won't be able to respawn again for 2-3 minutes. This'll prevent the greytide from simply respawning as a spider the second they die, grief, die, repeat. And it'll allow admins some time to see what the particular player did so they can easily punish them if they used the creature to intentionally grief or break the rules.
Option C
Karma purchase. This method reduces the amount of griefing and metagrudging. Make spiders playable for 10 - 20 karma points. This'll prevent greytide from abusing the role.
The Argument
The common argument for re-enabling spiders is that spiders serve no other purpose other than running around and killing everything. This is simply untrue and I will explain why.
Of course like many antagonists the straightforward answer is "Kill crew, kill crew and kill crew."
But you should also take into consideration that Spiders (like xenos, blobs or any other role that is an alien.) had a lot of mechanics behind them that allowed for every encounter with them to be different, especially depending on what class of spider you came in contact with.
Take the large spider for example (
guard spider) they had an average amount of health, a semi-large brute force attack and a very slow movement speed. Encountering a guard spider would require the player to constantly hit and move back until the spider either died or retreated.The hunter spider (the smaller one with purple eyes.
) had a very low amount of health, an average brute force attack with the addition of a toxin attack that applied passively and a fast movement speed. This required the spider to hide and ambush, much like an assassin. If the particular spider were to simply run into the halls it would be killed almost instantly.and the nurse spider (the fat one with green eyes.
) had a low amount of health, a semi-average amount of brute force attack and a sluggish movement speed, nurses had the ability to lay eggs after they absorbed a downed crewmember.The point being that all three of these spiders had unique playstyles and required some thinking and strategizing to emerge victorious. If you simply did the ol' run-and-gun you would almost certainly be defeated. So please spare me the straightforward and dull answer of "All they do is kill, nothing special about them!"
Balancing
Spiders are already very balanced creatures, all three of the classes have their own strengths and weaknesses and can easily be defeated. However the common complaint that is said is that they reproduce too quickly.
Therefore I propose this,
Egg-sacs hatch less spiderlings (2-4), spiderlings take 2-3 minutes before they evolve into a giant spider and the time it takes for a nurse spider to lay an egg-sac is increased from instant to 20-30 seconds.
Although this isn't needed it should ease the players concerns that spiders reproduce too quickly.
NPC vs Player Control
This is a pretty obvious and straightforward topic, NPC-controlled spiders make the event much more boring and much more difficult to kill.
Let's look at the pros and cons
NPCs are well.. stupid. They were scripted purely to stay in one spot, spin the occasional web and chase a player down with no errors or mistakes until said player was dead. With a human controlling the spider it makes things much more interesting, people aren't robots so we make mistakes. Giving our enemy an advantage over us. Sometimes we'll mis-click and we definitely can't run at the speed of light behind our foes unlike NPCs.
So with spiders being 100% NPC-controlled well.. it makes things extremely boring. The argument that the spiders existence is purely to kill applies perfectly to NPC-controlled spiders. as they can only chase and kill.
With players it introduces teamwork, coordination and strategizing. It allows spiders to web up an area, making the place look much more spidery and expand their domain to the next room. It makes the roleplay experience much more in-depth, if you're walking into a room and everything is covered in webs well.. your character definitely knows something isn't right.
Player-controlled spiders have the intelligence to break out a light and hide, the intelligence to expand and build up a spider headquarters for players to drag the incapacitated crew to absorb and lay eggs on and the intelligence to use their surroundings to hide and ambush.
It brings much more flavor to the round since you know you're up against another player rather than a bland and without error npc.
Conclusion
To conclude, disabling player-controlled spiders was a bad call in my opinion. It took away a lot of fun and diversity for spider rounds and made the event ten-times more boring and bland. The crew knew that spiders would be easily killed since npcs possess no intelligence and that the result would always be the same just in a different room.
Player-controlled spiders put much more uniqueness and excitement into the round.
So please consider looking at some options to re-enable spiders to the playerbase and also consider the amount of work both the coders and players put into making the spider a unique creature. (Wiki article, lore, scripting to allow the spinning of webs, absorbing of players, webifying of furniture and players, the different stats between spiders and the work that also went into spiderlings as well such as being capable of fleeing, hiding and traveling through vents.)
If you have any questions feel free to post away, I'll do my best to answer them since I'm an expert on spiderology. :ugeek:
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this all sounds like a lot of effort for something everybody hates and is purely a killing role that is done better by roles that have entire game modes centered around them
I'm sure it's a lot of work and hours of stress to enable a white-list for something. Not everybody hates it, spiders aren't a purely killing role.. they require expanding, hiding and teamwork to win. Disabling carp is understandable, spiders it isn't.
Xenos have a similar way of playing. Plant weeds, hide, kill, repeat.
Blobs have a similar way of playing. Plant structures and walls, have a good hiding spot, expand, kill, repeat.
It's not fair to disable an entire playable mob because some people used it to grief.
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I'm calling all wiki contributors to arms, it's time to finish the remaining locations on the wiki. It's nearly done, it'll take too long for one man alone to complete it. We need a combined effort of wiki warriors to finish the fight.
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And if a ling victim becomes a spider purely to get revenge on their killer it's called metagaming, which is bannable. Case closed? You shouldn't take away a feature because of some bad-apples. A lot of people, especially me, enjoyed playing the creature and playing my role, not abusing it to grief or to meta-game.
If it's such a big problem why not introduce whitelisting to be these creatures? At least everyone will be happy that way.
Assuming he even gets caught; it's fairly easy to gloss over when there's 5+ of the buggers and said person also tries to attack someone else; it looks legit and there's a 100% perfect excuse, too. And when features gets 50% of the time or more, then you should start questioning if the feature is a good one, or not; the amount of abuse that players engaged in with spiders and especially carp was incredibly incredibly high; a good number of people literally just went around breaking windows because they could.
Would there be a possibility of just whitelisting the feature so at least the regulars can play them without the worry of griefing? It's understandable for carp because they have no real objective other than break a window, kill crew, repeat.
With spiders it's a different story. It requires a lot more coordination and teamwork, you need guard spiders to defend nursing spiders, hunters to incapacitate crew and bring them to a nurse spider and advance like that. Hunters are weak so they need to use tactics such as breaking a light and waiting for a lone crewmember to pass by, nurse spiders are rarer so you need to be extra cautious and etc.
Spiders have a lot of mechanics behind them to be victorious and it's pretty disappointing that because of some people that abuse the creature that it's disabled for everyone.
The best outcome is whitelisting the creatures and players have to apply and an admin has to okay it and to prevent havoc from players just charging, dying, and respawning you can simply have a two-minute cooldown when you die so you can't immediately respawn again.
It evens it out for both the spiders and the crew.
For me personally, I really enjoyed playing as a spider. I even spent an hour on the wiki making an entire guide on how to play them properly. Me along with others played the creature fairly and properly and tried to make it a balanced and fun experience.
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I would loathe to see this again. Spider event already is an end rounder most of the time, back then it was a definite round end with Playable spiders. Player carps would, as many many people said, just go to arrivals and escape and vent the area, then continue deeper into the station to further vent it. Nurse Spider players would also wait until the NPC spiders had killed someone and then make dozens of baby's where no one would get to them. As fun as it is, players weren't treating it as a fun way to come back, but rather forcing it to be a game mode in and of itself.
I would very much like more pets for ghosts to go in more then this honestly, Ghosts shouldn't have a such a big second chance to come back, particularly as Hostiles.
EDIT: Plus it's a very very shitty feeling for, say, a group of cultists find all their words and get ready to start converting when the round ends because player carp went to every window and broke it. Why should the people who FINNALY roll antag status have to lose it because someone they killed earlier gets to decide to ruin the game. As for "rarity" of the events, I see them very often, I don't understand how they are a rare thing at all.
This---this to an insane, absolute "T". Also, since they're "antags" with no objectives--they're pretty much free to do whatever...and, not surprisingly, people would metagrudge with them. I still recall Bone White questioning a player "why did 3 carp just come after you, one after another for no reason at all?"
This also brings up issues with the spider ling ability; it feels shitty enough when an NPC spider attacks you, but when ling victims actively start wanting to player spiders just to get their twisted form of revenge? That's bad.
Very strongly opposed to this; it was removed for a reason.
And if a ling victim becomes a spider purely to get revenge on their killer it's called metagaming, which is bannable. Case closed? You shouldn't take away a feature because of some bad-apples. A lot of people, especially me, enjoyed playing the creature and playing my role, not abusing it to grief or to meta-game.
If it's such a big problem why not introduce whitelisting to be these creatures? At least everyone will be happy that way.
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Alright than bring back only spiders! Spiders had their own classes, mechanics and playstyles! Not bringing back carp is agreeable but at least let us have our spiders.
Spiders can be balanced out, perhaps Nurse Spiders get less health and egg sacs need a longer time to hatch.
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NEW THREAD FOCUSING ON THE SUPERIOR SPIDER. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3823
Let us respawn as them again, it's rare that either are spawned and now we can't even play as them anymore. The argument for disabling them is that players used it to grief, that's why we have engineers that can repair the windows they break. Regardless of whether a player is controlling the creature or not it can still break things.
Not to mention the wiki guides to both of these creatures have gone to waste because of this decision. They've been enabled for a long, long time and it's never been an issue. If someone is intentionally griefing the station as a creature than simply,
A. Ban them
or
B. Ban them from respawning as a creature
Don't take away the fun from everybody because of some griefers that use the creatures to destroy the place. They were very fun events and the damage that both of these creatures cause is not that severe and can be repaired.
Countering the argument that their entire existence revolved around griefing the station by depressurizing it is silly to say on a role-playing game as that's the straightforward answer without looking at the small details. The same can apply to xenomorphs, blobs, meteors or anything else capable of causing damage. They were a spice to the rounds and a way for ghosts to participate in the round again.
They both have lore behind them, mechanics and goals like any other creature. Spiders have a goal to reproduce and take over the station, carps have a goal of getting into the station and killing the crew.
Not to mention both of these creatures are extremely easy to kill and are much more difficult dealing with when a player ISN'T controlling them. (NPCs can follow you at the speed of light, constantly attack without fail and can warp all around you if someone clips into them.)
So in short, bring the spiders and carps back. They were a fun addition to rounds and allowed ghosties to do something other than spectate a round. They added more flavor to rounds and removing them is just a way of saying "no fun allowed" for the playerbase. Both of them were well-balanced, easily defeated and easy to repair any damage they caused. They both required strategizing and teamwork to both be and be against.
Ban anyone who uses them to intentionally grief the station instead of disabling it for the entire playerbase.
Thanks.
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dean pls marry me
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snip
YES. YES.
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Forbidden Love, a short story
It had been unforeseen, Adrkiller-sama knew that these thoughts were unholy and could get him a front-row seat to his own execution, but he didn't care. His own men would call him a heretic, but he knew this was fate. He had fallen in love with a Cultist of Slaanesh, HereticChurch-kun!
It was love at first sight, Adrkiller-sama saw her upon a hill, cherry blossoms flowing freely in the air and the distant sounds of artillery creating new craters in the plains, her long dark hair flowing in the wind. Adrkiller-sama could easily see that the mark of slaanesh had been bestowed upon HereticChurch-kun but he didn't care, he saw through the heresy and instead saw his soulmate. HereticChurch-kun hadn't noticed Adrkiller-sama as she dug her blade into an Imperial Trooper, a bit of blood got on her cheek and Adrkiller-sama couldn't help but blush, it looked cute on her.
"S-so k-kawaii.." Adrkiller-sama stuttered to himself, he ran up the hill towards HereticChurch-kun "Heretic-kun~! W-will you be my valentines~!", it had seemed like the battle had suddenly seized to exist, both sides completely stunned as they simply stared at the sprinting Adrkiller, holding flowers in his hand and the noticeable blushing of his face. HereticChurch simply stared, struck with an overwhelming euphoric feeling. She ran towards him, "Adrkiller-sama~! I will! I've always loved you!"
As Heretic and Adrkiller hugged they inched closer and closer to each others lips, wanting to embrace each others love when suddenly, everything faded..
Adrkiller-sama had awoken, bound and on the floor. He had realized he had tripped over a rock while running up the hill and hit his head too hard. His confession of love hadn't gone unnoticed however, a Baneblade heavy tank coming his way with a squad of troopers accompanied by a Lieutenant.
The Lieutenant looked down at Adrkiller-sama and spoke, "Commissar Adrkiller, you've been found guilty of heresy by confessing your love to the enemy. The punishment is death, any last words?"
Adrkiller-sama couldn't help but smile and said "ayy lmao."
The Baneblade was only about ten meters away, he closed his eyes and knew he would be reunited with his love soon.
-splat-
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..
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"Annd.. done." block1 thought to himself as he submitted the story to every newscaster on the station. block1 exited his room, walking towards the bar with a swagger, life was as usual, assistants beating each other to death with toolboxes and the CleanBots broken down from all the tajaran fur they had sucked up.
I looked down to notice the floor was missing and fell into the dark abyss of space. This must've been the work of the space gods, as my vision faded into darkness the only thing I managed to sputter out was "Happy Valentines day, crew.."
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A NATURAL QTPI/10
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I think loyalty implants should give the affected player a cyborg-like mentality. Obeying orders, never questioning anything, cooperating with officials to the fullest extent even if it'll be used against you, etc. I tend to see loyalty-implanted people simply out their antag-friends, it ruins the point of role-play and simply turns into a game of implanting people and hoping they'll give up any information.
Loyalty implants should only have a basic set of rules for the affected player.
1) Obey NanoTrasen and her underlings. (Command, security, etc.)
2) Never question or disobey.
3) Eliminate any thoughts besides work and NT-approved activities.
Pretty much turns you into an empty husk that simply lives to obey NT. So unless the Captain asks you if your apart of any group you shouldn't immediately out every antag.
Also Changelings should have a high-chance when implanted to render the implant ineffective, they have a different anatomy than your common species. They shouldn't be as easily manipulated or converted with implants, they can just simply nullify the implant by changing up their brainy juices and such.
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I think it's kinda silly to be honest, it's common sense that you shouldn't be a general asshat and release the singularity or hitting someone over the head with a fire extinguisher for no reason.
If a player is that moronic non-intentionally then they shouldn't even be near a computer, they might hurt themselves.
It's a waste of work to try and list every potential scenario that isn't allowed. I'd imagine that the majority of the playerbase is teenanger - grown adult. Unless we're dealing with four-year olds that stick their fingers in the oven out of curiosity then you shouldn't need to go out of your way to do this.
Same with meta-gaming, if you've ever roleplayed or watched even a movie you should know that you have to play a role and not have knowledge of things that said role could even dream of. Same with theft, if you know that taking a specific item is going to interfere with another player doing something that's crucial than you plain shouldn't, common sense.
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I believe some of the finished images for various actions for the wizard, genetic abilities and whatever else haven't been implemented. A long forgotten contest was held a while back by Ponies to design the pictures but towards the end of the contest he went AWOL and I assume he may of forgotten all about it.
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I'd imagine it'd be extremely easy to code and add in. Allow us to dunk our donking donuts into some scalding-hot coffee!
And don't tell me to just use /me, IT AIN'T THE SAME AND MY IMMERSION IS SEVERELY AFFECTED!
Have donut in one hand, coffee in other hand, click on coffee with donut in hand, [example] dunks his donut in the [drink].
I demand my immersion of being a security officer with a soft spot for donuts be satisfied!
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UERHGH
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you're all fucking disgusting
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"KEI NEEDS TO FIND HIS SHOTGUN, NOW!"
KEI IS NOW CUTE ANIME GIRL KEI.
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Bill of Individual Kawaii Personas
Glorious higher-ups I call upon your powers to erect this bill and ensure all mentors, admins, coders and any other individuals with authority-like power obeys this bill.
Form a cute anime girl persona just like the chinese cartoons I watch and ensure that you have a cute avatar, a cute signature and address your player-base as [example]-kun or [example]-sama, don't forget the squigglies either.
Look at Nomzy for example, Nomzy maintains a kawaii as fuck persona that emits both class and cuteness while maintaining an authority-like figure. Studies have shown that Nomzy single-handedly reduced the amount of crime committed by the entire player base [citation needed].
Therefore, I propose that the glorious Neca-senpai uses his executive powers to force every admin and coder to create a cute anime persona, maintain that persona at all times and strive to further enhance said persona by having an image folder with a minimum of twenty-five reaction images featuring his or her persona.
Together we can reduce the amount of crime committed on both the server and the forums by forcing the crew to obey the animated chinese cartoon girls who most likely are men but as long as we don't know that it's alright.
I also would like to suggest that if this bill is passed that Nomzy be placed in-charge of judging each persona and making said persona valid on paper.
Thank you and may the chinese cartoons guide you,
~block1 shitposter and chinese cartoon connoisseur
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Seems everyone's coming back at about the same time, awesome!
<33 You've been gone for so long, how have you been?
Woho! Moar wiki contributions :3Regens
Have you been doing good?
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Welcome back mate!
Hey Fj! How have you been?
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Hello, welcome back, hopefully you don't mind the changes.
C-changes?
Make Spiders playable again.
in Suggestions
Posted
Sorry, but your post doesn't really outline anything to alleviate my concerns over metagrudging, griefing, etc. It just reduces it a bit.
Likewise, I don't see how you addressed Streaky's concerns over whitelisting either; it still has to be coded and it still requires the administrative oversight of selecting candidates....for a single...antag species (that was never really designed to be played by regular players to begin with).
I mean realistically it's impossible to stop people from griefing or metagrudging completely but a whitelist will certainly reduce the amount.
As for Streaky's concerns, yes it will be some effort for a single antag species but well.. disabling a species for an entire playerbase that's one of the most popular servers on this game is a big, big decision. Especially since Paradise was the only server to allow players to be spiders. Other popular servers such as yog, hippie, tg and aurora to my knowledge also have it disabled. So that's another unfortunate factor since this playable species is pretty much extinct now from every popular server.
Option B could work much better with a lot less work from the admins, simply adding anywhere from a 2 - 5 minute cooldown on respawning again as a spider. This'll reduce the amount of grief since if you die well.. you have to wait five minutes now.
And if a coder cares enough about the event they could also modify the amount of time it takes for an egg sac to hatch and the amount of spiderlings that come out of said sac to reduce the amount of spiders on the station.
I understand you disagree but at least give it some consideration, it was a fun and balanced event that is now gone from one of the most popular servers.
*Added a third option, might fit your tastes a little better. No admin effort needed and will significantly reduce grief as only regulars will have the kind of karma to purchase it.