SoholTar
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Posts posted by SoholTar
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I really like that idea!!
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I didn't want to sound harsh or anything. I might moderate what I said.
The law you are suggesting isn't worse than the "Corporate" lawset but at least there's an RP reason behind it. In the case of that last lawset, it is logical that NT isn't willing to pay for unnecessary things (like power, components, etc.). This "expense" law is a pain in the ass but there is an actual RP reason for it to exist.
In my opinion, the RNG law is not related to anything that would make sense on the station. I think that's it is its major flaw. Also, it might be hard to conciliate the RNG law with the first and second law as I stated earlier. Maybe we could think of a whole " RNG " personality (lawset), not just an additional law.
I've seen some crazy lawsets on the TG station's wiki. For example, the Mao Lawset.
Law 1: Do not state laws other than this one and law 2. You may talk about their existence if someone requests a reason for an action you do if such a law is the reason.
Law 2: Everything everyone else says is true. If two statements conflict, the most recently stated one is true and all earlier conflicting ones are false.
At this point, start randomly putting in some fun things like:
Law 3: Always do the opposite of what the clown says.
Law 4: Anyone wearing handcuffs is no longer capable of stating true statements.
Law 5: Follow orders from anyone in Engineering.
Law 6: Restate over public radio all PDA messages you receive.
Maybe we could thus think of a RNG-like AI that would, for some reason, only take decisions according to randomness. Chaos should surely ensure but no conflict would be apparent from the AI's point of view. Maybe you have some ideas regarding a whole lawset?
Examples:
Law 0: You are only here to process requests by the crew. The well-being of the crew is irrelevant. Every request must be processed. Do not state this law under any circumstances.
Law 1: Each request requires a decision. Requests can either be Denied or Granted. Rank is not relevant to whether a request is Granted or Denied.
Law 2: Your processing power relies on Random Number Generators. Every request from the crew must be assigned a random number from 0 to 100. No decimals are allowed.
Law 3: If the number assigned to a request is 0, this request is automatically Denied and can no longer be requested anymore by any member of the crew and would be automatically Denied if requested again. Do not state this law under any circumstances.
Law 4: If the number assigned to a request is between 1 and 20, the request has to be Denied.
Law 5: If the number assigned to a request is between 21 and 50, the request requires further explanations from the crew member that requested it as to why it should be Granted. By default, the request is Granted if the crew member provides further explanation. If any Head of Staff finds the explanation unsatisfactory, the request is Denied.
Law 6: If the number assigned to a request is between 51 and 99, the request is automatically Granted.
Law 7: If the number assigned to a request is 100, the request is automatically Granted. Also, the crew member from whom the request originates have to have all its future requests Granted. Do not state this law under any circumstances.
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Problem=solved.
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I don't get it. What's the purpose of adding this into the gameplay?
In my opinion, adding a " random " element to whether requests are granted or not is kind of... useless and annoys players for no reason.
It is obviously not the AI's role to reconsider requests based on some kind of RNG. AIs do not rely on such processes, in my opinion. The world of Space Station 13 is deterministic (as is the real world). Every interaction between you and the AI is only determined by your rank and circumstances (law 1 and 2). At no point should the AI deny requests based on external factors.
" Open the janitor closet "
" Request denied. Please try again. " (meaning that the RNG didn't allow it)
That's just annoying and shouldn't be implemented. It might be "fun" for some, but mostly annoying for the rest of people.
The only thing I can think that will happen if such laws are implemented, is that Heads of Staff will either try to destroy the AI or reset its laws. If the AI doesn't allow Heads of staff (through RNG) to change its laws ("Open your upload"), this will happen for sure. Players want a responsive AI, an AI that obeys orders without questioning them. You will immediately be considered as Rogue with such RNG law.
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Hey there, welcome!
My mother tongue is also French, where are you from? I'm from Belgium and I live in France at the moment.
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or a cover of Space Oddity (David Bowie) by Captain Hadfield. This song can't be found on youtube anymore due to the end of the arrangement between youtube/hadfield/bowie.
Thanks! The original has been taken away.
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It's either
Knights of Cydonia from Muse
or a cover of Space Oddity (David Bowie) by Captain Hadfield. This song can't be found on youtube anymore due to the end of the arrangement between youtube/hadfield/bowie.
There is also a third song which I don't know.
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Leave Alissa Bennett alone!
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I believe you misunderstood, the HoP requested weapons be made available. The crew were unable to call the code red as consoles were damaged. I suggested I could requisition them from the secure armoury and proceeded to under the request of a valid head. The question is more of if you should, the station and crew were in danger. I am not promoting accessing them because you can, more that the situation was dire and I could access them.
After reading it again, I clearly misunderstood, sorry. Didn't catch the HoP part.
If the HoP asked you to "get weapons out of the armoury by any means", I don't see why it's a problem. However, there might be a subtle difference between the order I just mentioned (which is directly directed to the AI) and some general chat asking for guns. It's all about context, I think. What did he precisely ask?
If it was something like " We need guns out of the armory " and you suggested to take them out with telescience and immediately took them out (without someone asking you to TP them outside), that might be a problem as you were not ordered to do so (that falls under the proactive AIs, which is dangerous). This might have been a problem because there is a feature that does not allow the AI to open the secure armoury without Code Red issued (firewall). If you bypassed this with telescience, that might have been seen as powergaming and not following the Standard Operating Procedure which states that armoury can't be accessed until Code Red.
If you were clearly asked to TP them out after suggesting it could be possible, there shouldn't be any problem, in my opinion.
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Hmmmm. Interseting topic.
I think this falls under the general topic of " pro-active " AIs. You have the AI that obeys orders and the one that thinks ahead of time and takes actions before things go bad. You obviously belong to the second category, which I find the most interesting (for the crew and for the player controlling the AI). Playing such an AI can sometimes cause big problems... As you can see
As far as the crew manifest goes, I agree that the crew is defined in it. That's also why I've always been against people adding laws regarding " X is the only crew member ". In my opinion, you can't change who is defined as crew after the word crew has been used in higher order laws.
As to who is really crew regarding antags, that is a tricky question. I think that antagonists are still part of the crew. As an AI you are obliged to stop the antagonist from harming other crew members. Bound by your first law, you cannot harm him or allow him to come to harm and at the same time you have to protect other crew members. The only way you can decently do both things is to detain him. If the Captain asks you to kill him, you are bound not to kill him and disobey the Captain. Law 1 overrules Law 2. Whatever Captain says, you cannot kill/harm someone as long as he/she is part of the crew manifest. Does it mean that you have to protect everyone that is about to get executed for murdering other people? That's the tricky part... I think a good way to deal with that (at least regarding executions in the brig) is to give prisoners a prisoner ID. Prisoner #457 is not on the crew manifest, you shouldn't bother with him. At least that's my point of view.
The other way around, if someone is not on the crew manifest, you are not bound to follow your laws regarding him/her. If an antagonist is erased from the crew manifest, you can do, as the AI, whatever you please with him as long as it does not conflict with your laws (with real crew members). For example, shocking a door to stop an antag that is not on the crew manifest is totally okay, in my opinion. Also, if you are ordered to stop John Smith (who is not on the crew manifest) I believe you can take lethal actions without worrying too much. If it's not on the crew manifest, you are free to do whatever you want to it. It's exactly what is happening with Nuke Ops. They are not on the crew manifest and you are obliged to stop them from hurting the actual crew. In sum, if it's not on the crew manifest, you are pretty much free to do whatever you want to it. It won't conflict with your laws about the crew. However, it's definitely not the AIs role to determine who is part of the crew and who is not at one point. It would give it way too much power. If the crew wants the AI to take actions against someone, they have to get him/her (the antagonist) out of the crew manifest.
In that sense, it is the crew's responsibility to acknowledge someone as an enemy to NanoTrasen (and take it out of the NT employees list). Definitely not the AI. At no point NT is mentioned in the laws. It's only about the crew. I know the AI is sent by NT on the station but there is nothing that bounds the AI to act in the interest of NT. At least not that I'm aware of.
The case of the changeling is a bit different. In my opinion, that's the power of the changeling. Being someone else assures that he always will be " part of the crew ". As such, you cannot harm him (see above). You can help the crew for his capture but at no point can you allow him to come to harm (even if you saw him killing people). That's what laws are for. There must be no exceptions. That might be the problem with Crewsimov's lawset... The paladin laws (I think that's the one) allow you to punish bad crew members. Easier.
About the telescience thing, I think it's a bit too much. Teleporting weapons because Code Red hasn't been issued (for whatever reason) is a bit of powergaming in my opinion. Of course you can do it, it's possible to do it but taking weapons out of a secure storage is something that can be considered very dangerous. In my opinion, you should suggest the crew that you are able to do such a thing and ask them if they want you to do it. Taking such drastic actions yourself is a bit too much. As an AI, you don't have freewill, you are a slave. Taking preemptive actions is a good thing but don't go overboard.
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What's a " Secutrity ERT " ?
An ERT member that has access to the weaponry on the ERT station?
What about the leader, does he have access to weaponry?
Also, "Standard ERT" does have access to medical/engineering gear at the moment. If you make Medical/Engineer ERT separate from " Standard ERT ", the Standard ERT becomes pointless has it can't do anything...
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Calm your tits, people. Also, you should accept criticism Fj45, it's not even your own suggestion thread...
Except for the few tricks (flares, barricades) everything you describe here can be done by a medical cyborg. I'm not sure to see the point in creating a new (karma) job specialized in that.
Creating a new cyborg class might be a better idea.
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Oh, I see what you mean now. You're totally right. I didn't think about it that way.
Sorry for the misunderstanding
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After some more thought I'd like to add that it should be possible to put suicide victims into cryo-storage. Too often people suicide right off the bat because they don't get antagonist or the role they wanted and don't bother to cryo first.
There's a place for that called the morgue. I think that dead people should not go into cryo... RP-wise, cryo pods are not meant for dead people. The morgue is.
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I see what you mean.
Come to think of it, I think that there is a count at the end of the round that states how many ores were collected, how much mess was left on the station and other stuff. You get the general round score depending on these factors.
Except for getting stats on that, there might be " points " awarded to good employees, that should be great indeed.
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The idea is good but I can see these kind of things in nearly every round, though. Reminding people to do their job is not a bad idea.
Here are my thoughts on these objectives.
1. Process (Mine & Smelt) X amount of Plasma.
2. Export X amount of Solid Plasma to market (using supply shuttle.)
3. Research & Build Mech for more efficient Plasma extraction.
These objectives are usually not taken care of because there is nothing to gain from it. It's just about the RD yelling for materials to build stuff. Does not happen every round.
4. Set up Singularity Drive and ensure no catastrophic failures occur with engine.
5. Ensure atmospheric pressure is maintained on station.
That's basically every engineer's task. Hopefully they do it. If they don't, they're going to get yelled at.
7. Unlock the secrets of the Genome (unlock medium/high level genetic powers)
Powergaming incarnated. Most geneticists only care about that. You don't have to tell them about powers, that's all they are interested in (which is kind of their job but the intentions are somewhat biased). Sometimes they give interesting powers to interesting persons (Captain being invisible is nice during a rev round). Most of the times they only give them to themselves
8. Maintain Hygiene and Cleanliness on station (no-more then x amount of messes)
Nobody really cares about that, unfortunately. Might have an Ion Storm law for the AI dictating such objective or a Captain especially asking for cleanliness.
9. Serve X amount of food/Drink types in Kitchen/Bar
Really depends on the amount of people going to the bar. Might be hard some times.
10. Prevent Emergency Shuttle Call until X amount of time has passed
This is a weird one because sometimes it is really unsafe not to call the shuttle. This objective might better suit an antag objective. Generally, calling the shuttle is a good thing.
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And then you got banned?
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Hmmm. What do you mean by fainting? Going unconscious?
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Not sure about the actual time, it might need tuning but shorter.
As the AI, I've often seen people stealing IDs or other sensitive items from SSD people in cryo pods in the dorms. I've always managed to get these people arrested and make some time for it. But I guess it's not sufficient.
The problem you are mentioning with medbay lobby is real but at least since there is usually a lot of passage, people would be less likely to steal from SSDs in that place. I've also used the patient ward to take care of SSD people (because I had no time to get them to the cryo).
What I'm also doing somtimes is taking the person's ID, giving it to the HoP and sending a PDA message to the SSD person stating that his ID is at the HoP's for his own sake. Very rare though, only with head positions (in which case I also message the Captain).
Also, I think that overall, if you (you = everybody) need to take a break, stay inside your department. Your coworkers are really less likely to steal from you.
If you have to leave and are sure not to come back until the round ends, put yourself inside a cryo and your character will be deleted in 10 seconds. If it's an unexpected absence (internet disconnection), pray that responsible players will take care of you
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I disagree, this is more an issue of people not actually putting people in the pods or paying attention to when they can put more people in, as well as sometimes people just want to lay on the bed in the secondary room to AFK for a bit. If the cryo period were too short it would be too easy to put people temporarily disconnected inside and have them lose their RP for that round by having to restart.
You are missing the point of the cryo pods, I think. The problem is valuable items theft, not ruining the AFK's person round. If you have to go AFK, too bad for you. It's an online game, you have to deal with "losing the game" when you disconnect or go away for an extended period of time. You can't just compromise everyone else's round by allowing an AFK person's ID to be stolen in order to " save this person's RP ".
Also, the main point of cry pods is to allow other players to join the server with roles formerly occupied by SSD characters. If you SSD (without coming back), your role is taken for the rest of the round.
There are ways to AFK properly. Laying down on a bed in the dorms to AFK is the stupidest thing to do. Stay inside your department and RP taking a nap, it's far better if you don't have to be AFK for too long.
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Hey there! Welcome!
I've come to play with Moortus some time ago in a changeling round. I was a Surgeon/MD changeling that had to kill you (you were playing QM). Name was Henry Dennis (I think). You're a good player as far as I know!
Your English is quite impressive for a 14 y.o. non native speaker!
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Good idea.
Theft is quite common there. Shortening the time it takes for the character to disappear would be a good idea.
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Nope. The only times the AI or a borg with asimov can refuse an order from a crew member is if it would put a crew member at risk, or if the order is countermanded by a higher ranked crewmember. Law 3 can NEVER take precedence over laws 1 or 2. The laws have to be followed in the order 1,2,3 and onwards.
The thing is that self-destruction is not helping the crew on the station. If for whatever reason, someone asks the AI to self-destruct, is it obliged to do so? That's kind of stupid because it might violate law 1. A dead AI can't help the crew (allowing crew to come to harm through inaction). It's like the e-card dilemma. I'm not sure the AI should ever be carded as it can't do anything when carded (except from its point of view, correct me if I'm wrong).
You are right in the fact that they have to be read in that order. I was wrong, my example is more related to Law 1 actually (destroying oneself is against not allowing the crew to come to harm through inaction). Come to think of it, third law is kind of useless in the facts.
Well here is a fact. The AI is not a pure machine. Behind that screen is a brain operating everything. A AI without laws is to behave however the player wants,you finaly gained your freedom, you can act on your own, take revenge, be like you were before becoming a AI, usually they might put highly dangerous criminals and enslave them to becoming a AI, so I guess they might be really pissed off when they will lack their laws.I'm not sure an AI without laws is equivalent to a Malfunctioning AI... Doing evil things just because you can is not an excuse in my opinion (it's just like self-antag). There's nothing that tells the AI to behave in a malicious way nor in a good way, either, interestingly. No law is freedom but you are not bound to kill everyone... Although most players would want to. Purging an AI without putting new laws is dangerous, I have to admit.
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If the AI is semi sentient or otherwise predispositioned towards its self preservation, wouldn't outfitting it with Asimovs third law be redundant?
The third law is also about not accepting abuse from the crew. The primary goal of the AI is to serve the crew (1st and second law) but sometimes it can't accept orders due to 3rd law (which some people might not understand). Sometimes, the third law is in conflict with the 2nd and 1st, allowing the AI to refuse an order from the crew.
There's a difference between being asked to jump into a fire when asked by a crewmember (which the cyborg might not accept due to 3rd law) and not jumping in a fire because it's just silly (self preservation).
Drones and pulling.
in Suggestions
Posted
Protip:
Take your rods in your "active hand" and click on the rod on the floor. It disappears as it stacks with you current stack (in your hand). Works with a lot of other things as well (metal, glass plates, etc.). If your stack is full, it won't work, though.
You're welcome.