SomanB
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Posts posted by SomanB
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I'll put it really super duper simple.
When you pull self-antag BS like busting your meta-bro out of jail, you are diverting resources that could otherwise be used in ye olde antag hunting.
To draw an analogy, it's like prank calling emergency services. Sure, nobody gets HURT prank calling 911....until that line is tied up for an actual emergency.
Pulling shit to make someone's game difficult when you have no valid reason to is a legit douche move. You're just doing it to bother someone. Outside of a very few, requiring an ahelp before you do it exceptions, busting someone out of the brig is a douchebag move simply being done to give sec a hard time.
You want to jailbreak someone, and you aren't an antag? Ahelp it. Get permission, then go nuts.
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I've always thought if it in military terms. You've got your regular "core" members of the unit (the different departments), then the attachments (all the guys falling under CC).
NT Rep, that's the annoying civilian guy assigned to your unit by Congress to evaluate your work.
IAA, those guys are the grunt level inspectors for the Inspector General, the impartial outside department that handles "internal" military conflicts.
Magistrate, well he's the Inspector General himself, come down from on-high to render judgement.
As for the Blueshield....well, he'd be the equivalent of a Blackwater bodyguard, hired by Congress to make sure the Commanding Officers (read, Heads) don't get fragged.
Part of being attached to a unit like that in the real world is, while TECHNICALLY the unit chain of command isn't your boss, in reality, you do what they say because you're working for them day in and day out. Flipside of that, if said chain of command tells you to do something blatantly wrong, you scurry over to your ACTUAL bosses and rat them out. It actually works out as a decent check and balance....the unit command knows that they'll get ratted out for abusing the attached people, and the attached people know that pulling the "you're not my boss" card to get out of legit orders will result in life becoming hell.
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Uh, no. Sorry but minor annoyances aren't causing anything debilitating. Non-antags are allowed to engage in small amounts of mischief provided they don't ruin the round for anyone else. I get that you're easily frustrated when something inconveniences you, but most of the people on this server aren't going to ahelp over some guy helping his buddy escape security for a minor crime. I've busted people out of sec all the time and have never gotten ahelped about it. Even after the round people members of security will laugh in OOC about it. Learn to have fun. You don't need to get fannyflustered every time someone stops you from doing your job. As long as they aren't helping sabotagers and murderers get away it's perfectly fine.
And I'm not playing the "fuck the police" line. I'm not saying security is terrible or deserves this treatment. This is a strawman that you have constructed. I am saying that it is not self antagging to cause inconveniences to security. If I break into the brig they can just use another cell, or get engineering to repair the one I broke. I also don't ahelp over minor violations of SoP, good on you for being presumptuous though.
This is one of those "wishful thinking" things. I play sec a LOT, and I've....never really seen any of these frequent breakouts. Whatevs.
Either way, Major Tresspass with malicious intent covers breakouts, and that's a permabrig. Doesn't get applied often, but hey, excuses now and all.
Enough replying to teh baitz though.
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Keroman, I said in that post you quoted that you shouldn't do the thing I just said. My point was IC you're likely to get away with it. It's one of the advantages of security - most people won't challenge you. Re-read my post again.
And yeah helping minor criminals escape security is not adding to the chaos and treachery to the station. Tthere's a difference between helping a guy who stole some shit from you escape security and helping a traitor who released the singulo escape security.
Yes, jailbreaking is adding uneeded chaos to the round. Yes, it gets in the way. Yes, it is annoying, and yes, it is self-antagging to a degree.
I know, it's fun for you to play the whole "hurfblurf fuck da police!" line, but it's really not all that fun for anyone else involved. You want to do antag stuff, set your antag preferences. Want to cause some non-antag chaos to liven up the round, ahelp it. I've ahelped a few "This round is dull, can I do X to liven it up?" and gotten a thumbs up.
Take it on yourself to be a shitter, and yes, you will get shitter treatment in turn.
It never fails though, the same ones who think "lol no big deal busting muh buddy out of the brig" are the same ones who're ahelping instantly the second SoP gets breached in turn on them.
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If I get slipped on a banana peel and call it assault I get called shitsec, because obviously it's just a clown. When the clown capitalizes on the slip and steals the damn gun from me then it's my fault for being unrobust. It's a shitsec paradox.
A good clown slips a sec officer, honks them a few times, teases them for being unrobust on the radio, then helps them up and goes on their way. A shit tier clown steals gear.
If I get the first clown, I'll laugh right back with them about how unrobust I am, give them a hug, and carry on with my day. The second one faces the wrath of the golden bolt.
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I've had the whole "self-antags" ruin rounds for me when I play sec. It's stupid.
I'm pretty well known for being a laid-back warden overall. I cut people breaks, I knock time off sentences for SoP violations by the arresting officer, I'll even count processing time towards a sentence if the person involved isn't being a complete douche. I am, unabashedly, a nice person.
Round starts with, of course, the clown. HoS arrests the clown, commits about 4 different SoP violations doing it. I call the HoS out, they throw a fit and cryosleep. I knock 2/3rds of the sentence off for the clown, chuck him in the brig, call it a day.
Next up, the bartender forcefeeds one of his patrons enough alcohol to put him into crit. Technically attempted murder, but I call it assault with a deadly weapon (alcohol is poison kids!), brig for 15 minutes. He starts in with the whole "shitcurity abusing me!" routine, gets the crowd riled up.
Clown again makes an appearance, this time for assaulting an officer, stealing his gear, and flushing it. Well, goodwill burned, but I've been yelled at for stacking crimes before, so I just brig the clown for 15 minutes on the worst charge. He joins the bartender in screaming about sec torture, hurts himself and claims the meanie warden beat him, the whole nine yards. HoP decides to get involved, frees the clown. I promptly set HoP for arrest for freeing the clown, have the clown caught again and his timer reset, and brig HoP too.
At this point, the crew is in an uproar about shitcurity, Heads are making snide comments about shitcurity via announcements, Centcom is sending shitcurity message announcements, and the Cap just says "fuck it", and calls the shuttle. I grab riot gear for the rest of sec, hand it out, then get on the shuttle.
It was an extended round. No antags. If anything, I broke SoP by being nice to people. So, I quit playing the role. Not to gloat, but I considered myself a somewhat decent Warden, but why bother?
There really are three options when it comes to playing sec. You say "fuck it" and quit playing the role because of people like this. You say "fuck it" and become shitcurity because hell, if they're going to ruin your round, might as well do some ruining in turn, or you become a rote SoPbot and have minimal interaction with anyone aside from exactly what SoP tells you to.
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This. I'd also like to add that the CMO also has access to a syringe gun--not to mention the authority to more or less force any doctor/chemist to hand one over even if someone else gets to them first.
This is one of my biggest irks about the RD and CE, right now, too--they have 'superior welding goggles' that offers full welding protection (and therefore flash as well) but don't limit visibility one bit---therefore, it's a complete upgrade for them and there's literally no reason to not wear them 24/7.
Since we're going down the syringe gun line....Give me a 15u chemical that will floor someone with a couple seconds, causes no damage, and is legal to carry.
Going down the guide to chem list, we have:
Ether: Nope, needs a LOT higher dose than 15u, works way too slow.
Morphine: Same as Ether.
Hydrocodone: Same, above.
Haloperidol: Maybe. Try getting chem to make it for you though.
Everything else falls under the narcotics category, or is poison. It may be different when other people play, but I'm pretty sure that me, as a normal player CMO, would get smacked hard for "Well he was being unruly so I shot him with (krokodil/sulfonol/neurotox/capulettium)"
And finally, RD can make better dart guns than medbay has, as well as make chems for it. And, we get back to the original point, they still have flash protection, so if we're doing "balance around antag", they're still way on top.
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Give the CMO a set of medihud sunglasses like the brig phys and Blueshield get.
Why?
The CMO starts with a flash in their locker, to hypothetically defend themselves against unruly patients and such. It's utterly useless, because nine times out of ten, the CMO is going to have a normal medihud on.
So, easy fix. Give them the medihud sunglasses. You'd figure the Medbay department head would have access to such an item anyway.
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The timer starts when the door shuts on them in the cell with no officers inside. Configuring the timer is fine, but DO NOT START IT while the prisoner is being handled! This can cause lots of grief. For example, Officer A, having finished officiating charges on Crim B, drags him to cell. The crime is severe enough to warrant strip-brigging, so they do so, locking up their possessions in the closet and putting on the inmate uniform. At this point, Warden C comes up behind Officer A, having heard the charges declared formally (what any good officer should do), and starts configuring the timer. Warden C finishes the configuration before Officer A finishes re-dressing Crim B, and he starts it anyway. The door slams, and at this point, Crim B breaks free of his cuffs because Officer A wasn't paying attention to the chat and missed the red text. Crim B flails at Officer A on disarm intent and successfully pushes him over before he can react and begins stripping him of his taser. Warden C instinctively fires a few taser rounds, but they DON'T HIT because the glass stops them. Warden C moves in to open the door, and Crim B snatches up the fallen stunbaton and harmbatons Warden C and Officer A into crit, preventing a response from either while he strips the Warden's gear and walks out with a bag full of all their important gear. You're now two officers down with a heavily-armed criminal on the loose. Antag or not, this is somewhat viable as an escape tactic, as long as you don't kill either officer. This kinda hinged on some interesting timing and inattentive officer, but it still COULD happen exactly like that.
In closing, don't start a timer the moment the crim touches the brig hallway. Bad habit. If they're really exhibiting great behaviour, cooperating with sec and stuff, the aforementioned cooperation clause directly notated in space law works just fine. Also, set the timer only AFTER all process is complete. It means a couple extra seconds for the crim, but it could mean the difference between their escape or not. I realize the glass in the previous example is dampened slightly by the disabler function tasers were updated to have, but I rarely see any officers use the disablers, so I think it's still perfectly valid that that could happen.
It's really not a difficult procedure. Take the cuffed person and their bag (You already did that, right? Took their stuff, searched it, tossed it in their bag.). Toss bag in cell locker. Pick up prison uniform. Drag prisoner over the open locker. Do the clothing swap there. Bucklecuff to bed. Step out, set timer. Step back in, remove cuffs, promptly pick up, then walk back out. If they're THAT much of a danger, remove cuffs, apply one stun via flash or baton, pick up cuffs, step out.
Literally a one person job. If two people are there, the second guy's job is to stand at that console with his finger over the "activate flash" button. First officer does the processing, second one sets the timer, if the perp gets frisky, pop that wallflasher.
My brig rule is "Only have things in-hand that I'm immune to" as Warden. Leave the ancestral stun-club holstered, keep the taser put away. Pepper spray and hand flashes. Sec are effectively immune to both, so if in inmate does get ahold of it, they can't use it against you.
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I came up with an idea for reworking Corp Enemy:
Crime Name: Enemy of Nanotrasen
Crime Severity: Capital
Punishment: Permabrig/Execution/Borgification
Description: To be legally proven to either be working for a known hostile corporation (ie: Syndicate), or to be working to undermine Nanotrasen's operations. In order to apply for this crime, enough forensic/legal evidence must be provided that the criminal has actually done anything worthy of being called a crime. Should the suspect be found to have been contracted by an Enemy of Nanotrasen, but to not actually have done anything, they are to be stripped of their rank, have all items confiscated, and be given a tracking implant. Executions done under this law without proper legal/forensic justification are to be considered murder.
I like this idea.
It fits in with an easy fix I had for validhunturz...require that Enemy of the Corp ONLY be invoked on the violation of another law.
On the flip side, server rule that it is required that antags pursue their objective. HOW they pursue it is up to them, be it playing nice for a false sense of security, diplomacy, what have you. Failure to even attempt objective could be punished with antag-bans.
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It WILL need admin/mentor interaction, as it's effectively a mini-event. Judgement calls will need to be made before anything starts. It can't be an automatic system, or we'll just see people pulling things like uploading X freeform laws just to set off chaos.
I'm not interested, thanks.
Yee, I'm really against having stuff that needs staff fuckery to use.
They got better things to do than be summoned just to like idk make a tomato or something
It's not so much staff fuckery, as an IC answer to an ahelp. Everything is already there to make it happen.
AI ahelp: "Dear ghods I got 19 freeform laws and more are incoming I can't handle it!"
Mentor: "Yeah that's bad. Your crazy now. RP it up, don't kill anyone or damage the station, but otherwise feel free to be a pest."
CENTCOM Message: "We see you've driven your AI nuts. Do not damage any AI systems. Wait for Geek Squad ERT to arrive and reset systems"
*trigger ERT*
Mentor: OK ERT here's your job, take this reset board to the AI upload, reset the AI, then find and dismantle any unauthorized law upload consoles.
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So, I'm not naming names and calling out anyone as bad per se, but during my time of playing AI I've noticed something. There seems to be a tendency to upload LOTS of freeform laws, if the AI is playing along as more than a doorknob/tracker. It's happened a few times where I've gotten 10-15 new freeforms all stacked up, some contradicting, people demanding I list them, follow them, etc.
This is my totally IC solution to that. If, at an admin/mentor types discretion, the AI gets too many laws, it goes a little nuts. Crew safety and station integrity rules remain active, but outside of that, the AI can act...well, crazy. At the same time, CENTCOM sends a message along the lines of "OK, we see you guys drove the AI insane. We are sending a tech support ERT to reset the AI. DO NOT TOUCH THE AI, OR RELATED SYSTEMS (cameras, borgs, etc)." Geek Squad ERT's job is to get to the AI upload, pop in a card, and fix the AI to baseline laws, then take apart any unauthorized AI uploads.
Now, to cover the loopholes. If the AI goes into this mode, it CANNOT kill people or damage the station. Even indirectly. The AI isn't malf, it's personality is corrupted. Overload lights, sure. Cut power to non-vital areas, go for it. Randomly bolt doors for arbitrary reasons, go for it. Venting plasma to the station and releasing singuloth, no can do.
Should an ERT call fail (because the ghosts are having too much fun watching the insanity), Centcom can start a "remote reset" of the core, which will, of course...take more time. Give it a few minutes, the AI gets reset to base laws, and life goes on.
As for coding, there's honestly none needed. This is heavily RP directed, so everything needed exists in game as is. It WILL need admin/mentor interaction, as it's effectively a mini-event. Judgement calls will need to be made before anything starts. It can't be an automatic system, or we'll just see people pulling things like uploading X freeform laws just to set off chaos.
TL;DR: this is a RP suggestion for an ahelp from an AI screaming "Oh god they've given me 20 different freeform laws and I can't follow them!" AI gets a few minutes of harmless revenge, laws get reset, and hopefully people have a little fun....and learn why it's bad to overload the AI with laws.
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While the subject of laws is being brought up Tully, could you add something to that agenda?
I've had a recent conversation with regens, where it'd close some gaps if we added
"Consistently, intentionally diverting security resources" to the notes of "acting as an or being an enemy of the corporation"
Not for that two timing pickpocket, but for the person who's not an antag and constantly, and I mean constantly, goes out of their way to get under the security force's skin - especially during high alert this has lead to a force unable to cope with real threats because they were too busy having to deal with people who were just technically not breaking the rules.
No. Emphatically no.
EoC exists so that Sec has a reason to do something if they proactively catch an antag before they manage to pull something off. Even then, it's really kind of a bad law. Falling under EoC as a non-antag should be nigh impossible.
What you've asked for is an "Execute if they've annoyed Sec" law, and that's exactly how it'll be used. "We arrested you three times. You're EoC. Perma or the chair, choose it." Or we'll see "Foam armblades during Red, summary execution."
If someone is getting under the skin of sec, yet is following server rules, Sec gets to deal with it. It's part and parcel of being Sec. If they're doing stuff that BREAKS the server rules (of which, being such a nuisance that it's ruining the round falls under), then ahelp it.
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While it may not apply specifically in this situation, I'll say this...if you torture me when I'm tatoring, yes, I'll totally ignore it and not play along. I'll even ask LOOC that you refrain from doing it.
I've been around legit torture victims (was a medic in Iraq), and that shit is in no way, shape, or form fun for me to play out. Jokes about triggering all you like, but still, it's a place not many people want to go to, in their 2D spessmans game.
Just something to keep in mind, for next time.
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This is a nice rebuttal indeed. I find your arguments convincing.
While reading this discussion I recalled my adventures with spaceacilin - spaceacilin used as a chronic medication in case there's no real cure available. You either keep taking spaceacilin or suffer the symptoms. We've switched to Goonchem and the chemical recipe is rather troublesome now considering that spaceacilin gets metabolized quickly.
Granted, in case of a massive viral outbreak spaceacilin is not enough. But this is when you cram your ass into Virology and start working on the cure.
Doctors are supposed to keep patients alive for as long as possible, until the cure is available.
What if we... nerfed radium (it's a permanent solution that is very easy to make) and put spaceacilin (modified or alternatively code a stronger anti-viral chem) in its place as a temporary solution?
I'm just brainstorming at this point since you guys need some help.
It's getting outside my "simple fix", but I really like that idea. Make one chem, maybe a step more difficult to make than cryox, that works basically as a "delay" for virals. Halts the symptoms, stop the spread, but leaves the patient with whatever symptoms they've already gotten. Stopgap until viro/CMO/(insert here) manages to get the actual legit cure made.
Makes Viro a valued part of the team, but not such a totally critical part that the round is over if noone takes the job.
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Part of the reason that it's the way it is is because viruses are, by their nature, deadly and destructive 99% of the time. If the Virologist isn't around, then everyone is just going to plain die (if radium curing didn't exist). Another problem is, if the viro is truly rogue, there will be pretty much no way of stopping him--just make a super virus, C4 the controls, and GG no RE the entire crew.
I can understand the frustration, but I'm not sure if taking away radium curing, in its entirety, is the way to make virologist fun---it doesn't really make the job so much fun as in *critical*; if you don't have one around and there is a virus, then a lot of people are going to just wind up dead....and that's the difference between this and a job like, say, engineering--yes, if the engineers set up power, it's not a whole lot of fun for the crew, but it is something that other jobs can compensate for....anddd palyers can still interact and play the game--that's not he case with virology. If you have a virus, you're going to probably die.
Usually there's overlap between jobs, to a degree---ie: it's not just the chef that can produce food (bartender, botany, chemistry, and vending machines), not just engineering who can produce power, and not just genetics who can cure DNA mutations.
Please note, I DO agree that VIrology isn't very fun to play right now, isn't generally useful, and your job can be easily completely outclassed by other departments (science+chem), but I'm not so sure making it so that everyone will literally die if there's not a non-traitor Virologist is the good way to go about making the job "fun".
I'm going to take you apart a little bit here, Fox. It's not intended as insult.
Against a random event, you have plenty of time for an active viro/CMO to build a proper cure. Isolate pathogen, inject a monkey, radium the monkey, get the antibody, dilute and administer. People freak out at stage one, when there are no stage ones that will straight kill. Going into stage two, we have basic tox, brute, and burn for killers. All managed by a doc in bio gear (they have them too), standing by with the right drugs. Stage three, you're looking at chucking someone in cryo to keep them alive. Stage four, yeah, you're likely going to die soon. Stage four is, yes, the end.
Against a tator viro, as I've learned, there are severe server rule limits on unleashing a superplague. You're restricted to "be the only one alive on the shuttle" to even have a chance at getting a superplague allowed, and even then, it's a helluva job ban risk doing so. Not only that, it's super inefficient. Take the perfect plague, three silent symptoms, then toxic sublim. The second the first guy starts oozing plasma, everyone is going to go internals and look straight at the viro. Same with gibbingtons, or any of the other superdeath level fours. Easier to emag the shuttle at the last moment, and less risk of job bans.
I never said "make it so only the viro can cure plagues and everyone is fucked if there isn't one". I said "put the instant supercure behind the viro's door, and take it away from everyone who can knock down a window to chem". If the station is in such bad shape that there's no Viro, CMO, HoP (who can add access to viro to someone who knows how to do it) Cap (ditto), AI, or willing assistant finally allowed to hack a door legally, then the plague is one of the lowest issues facing the station at that point.
To put it a different way, it's like having a "stock medicine fridge" button sitting next to chem, just in case there's no chemist on-hand to make meds. Why bother investing the time to learn the system, figure out the drugs, and make things if the next doc rolling up goes "Taking too long to make mannitol, this guy might die, pushing butan."
Thing is, I've seen waaay more rounds where a chemist either doesn't show up, or doesn't work on drugs, than I have plague rounds where a viro is utterly needed. Nobody working on drugs will halt medbay if anything more than the occasional accident happens, yet it doesn't justify taking away the chemist's primary job. If there's no chemist, medbay improvises. If there's no viro....who cares, just give anyone showing symptoms radium, charcoal, and pat them on the ass on the way out the door.
It really hit me how useless the viro was in a viral outbreak a day or so ago. Rando plague, of course radium cure happened as I was just finishing getting the virus isolated from the blood. I powered on, out of a sense of duty. Built the antibody, brought it out, had the chemist package it up in nice pills and stock it in the fridge, told medbay radio where the correct cure was.....then watched three other cases get dragged in, radium and charcoal shoved down their throat, then tossed out the door.
Right about then, is when my viro time went from "watch for plagues, be on the ball, don't goof off" to "kill monkeys with amusing virals, craft killplagues I'll never use, give myself viral superpowers, and never open my lab door".
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I don't play virology. I cant really speak about how good/bad/whatever it is but this little bit in particular stuck out.
This is probably the reason why some people just go straight to radium. Because in most instances the virologist is absolutely never around or even willing to do anything about an outbreak when it does happen. People are conditioned to react this way based on past experiences. If you want to change that? Then you have to change too, otherwise you're just reinforcing that behavior.
Often when I've been the first infected person it isn't the virologist that is helping me. They're usually sitting at their work area doing whatever and the CMO or some poor doctor/nurse is the one dragging me into virology and treating it while they ignore everything except their current project. Kinda like geneticists and cloning.
I actually had a round recently where I was infected. I came into medical and said as much, got scanned and they noted it was a virus. The virologist actively ran away from me (it was pretty hilarious actually). I had to chase them around to try and get them to actually help because the rest of the doctors scattered and left. Then the plasma began. It was odd.
Part of that is a good viro will be spending 99% of their time in their lab, running viral mutations, setting up monkey tests, all that jazz. That's the second big part of my job, building virals that make you ooze adrenaline, omni, glow in the dark, repair your brain damage...all the good stuff. It requires babysitting.
I try to keep some (creepy) banter on comms about how virals are my friends, how I found this AWESOME new symptom that makes people explode, just to remind folks I'm there and working.
Even with that, if I'm not right in the lobby the second someone coughs, a doctor radium cures, grabs some blood, and makes my job useless. Combined with that, people PANIC at the first symptom. It's a rare, rare rando virus that'll go from initial symptom to death faster than I can build an antibody. That only happens when you have three blank symptoms then something like gibbingtons or toxic sublim, and if you see that, you've got a tator viro.
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Add a full beaker of radium to virology at round start, or make virologists spawn with it. Virology always takes way too long to cure things, that's why the rest of medbay takes it upon themselves to cure it.
If viro is taking time to cure things, it's up to the rest of medbay to keep the infected patients alive while the viro works. They shouldn't be herping up a meta cure based on an iffy game mechanic.
Imagine, for a moment, this hypothetical. Because of a game mechanic, you can totally eliminate the need for an entire job, aside from some small side-work noone cares about. Engineers taking too long to start engine, just wire your APC to a lightbulb and get free power. Medbay not instantly there to cure you, just eat a donk pocket and drink some liquor, the combo automatically cures you.
People would be rightly pissed. That's the state viro is in right now. I get the level five viral outbreak alert, I don't even leave my lab, because I know someone is just going to radium cure it. I faff around, murdering monkeys while trying to build myself a positive viral.
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So, I've been playing virology for a few days, and while I find trying to get the perfect "good" virus to be amazing fun, I've discovered a problem.
That problem is radium. Random (and not so random) viral outbreaks are the time for a viro to shine and be a hero, but anymore it's devolved into whoever can break into/ask the chemist for a bottle of radium and some tox purging chems. Sure, it's great for the min/maxxing metaplayers, but it really sucks for a viro who's trying to cure a plague the right way. By the time you're halfway done getting the virus isolated, you see on the radio "cure in medbay lobby, get a shot of blood from X".
So, here's my suggestion to fix this issue, and make viro a little more of a star for their events. Step one, crank the "cure" chance from radium WAY down. It should be a last resort desperation play, not the go-to first line fix.
Step two, add a single chem reagent dispenser in viro, like the current virus food dispenser. Have it dispense what we use today as radium. Give it a new name. We have antibody stimulation drugs today (IVIG and interferon being pretty close in definition), so it'd make sense that in the future, there'd be something more effective. Give it a SMALL amount of what I'll call "antibody stimulator", in order to encourage fixing plagues the right way, over just injecting it in a sick person straight.
Coding difficulty: easy to moderate. I'm not a coder myself, but it looks like the vast majority of this would just be some copypasta, a new dispenser in viro, and some tweaked values on radium.
Scope: while pretty widespread overall towards metagamers, it's actually pretty limited. Restricts effective viral curing to CMO/viros, and offers some new avenues for antags to play with. Makes viro important during an outbreak, rather than the monkey murder room it is now.
Balance: Again, it buffs Viro to a good place during outbreak events, and nerfs metagamers who'll end a plague before CentCom even sends the announcement. Overall net gain.
As always, I welcome any critiques, complaints, or compliments on the idea. Thanks for reading!
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I kind of don't care what people get up to, so long as they chose civ/assistant for it. Soaking up and actual working slot like cargo tech, or heaven forbid, a head, then sneaking off to find a quiet corner for a little "RP" is not cool.
For one, it's soaking up a job slot that someone else might want to try, and two, it's leaving other people to cover the slack and make things work.
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I got two right here.
Sec:
Cargonia's official theme is
Coz yo, we push it. We push it REAL GOOD. -
I know it's a flaw, and I'll admit the failure. There's very much a degree of common sense involved, and I'll straight say it lacks on both sides at times.
Murderboning when nonantag is not playing the game. It's being an orifice. I'd rather said orifice be ahelp'ed, banned, and the round reset than have sec assume a mini-admin mode and try to "protect" the game.
Admin types have the unique position of being impartial out of game judges on things. Sec, because it's playing, can't be that impartial judge. When they try, it causes the shitcurity accusations to fly.
Sure, if someone's blatantly being an ass, and there's no admins, nuke 'em. If there are admins, ahelp it, THEN nuke 'em if you can, with minimal disruption. Don't play along, don't do the whole "lockup for 3 hours" bit. Remove the disturbance, tell them an ahelp is filed, and tell them to do the same.
If it's not someone being an ass, play along. Maybe run an OOC check to make sure that yes, they're having fun. If not, nicely say "Hey, what you did isn't cool (if not antag, course). Toss the people you disrupted an apology, I'll cut you loose with the understanding that further actions will result in admins getting involved."
If they ARE having fun, sec it to your heart's content. I know I'm sorta slamming sec guys, and it's honestly not my intent. It's kinda admirable to want to step up and try to protect other people's fun by removing the orifices. It's just not sec's job to do that, and it's unfair to expect them to. Sec is here to have fun. So am I. We can have fun, engage in conflict, and do things without attempting to ruin each other's game style.
I promise from my side, if I get up to some non-antag shenanigans and sec gets me, I'll let them know it's OK to "sec" me with no hard feelings. I don't murderbone, but if the chance to break into the vault pops up, I may or may not take it. If I pull it off, neener neener sec. If I get caught, darnit.
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So, the shift started out like normal. I'm quartermaster, My cargo techs and miners are all competent, things are running smooth as silk for a change. Another wonderful day in the realm of Cargonia. Heck, even Head of Personnel was keeping his nose in his office for a spell!
Midshift pizza gets ordered, because heaven forbid cargo stops for ten seconds to grab a bite and a beer, and we start getting funny reports of a vampire on comms. Now, I thought vampires were mythical creatures, but hey, we've got the wizards floating around, crazy bastards. Who knows what freakishness genetics is mixing up, much less the plague bearer....I mean virology.
Mythical or no, an old QM once told me, there's not much that can stand up to a pickaxe to the face, and boy does cargo got those. I bust 'em out, hand them to my techs, and say "aim for the eyes". This will be relevant later.
I figure we won't see any action. Boy was I wrong. Coming back from dropping off medical supplies, I hear over supply channel that one of MY techs has been attacked. Now, that's just not kosher in any form, and I get angry. Did I mention, the vampire was talking crap on the common channel? Well, he was. It's on like donkey kong.
I get back to cargo, and get to work on some improv weapons. It's not hard to turn a welder into a flamethrower, and NT gives me a nifty fire suit in case I have to do a rescue. On goes the firesuit, internals set, flamethrower ready....but for the fuel. Plasma is hard to drag out of the engineer's hands, and head sec isn't going to authorize a crazy QM to go on a vampire hunt.
So, I do the QM thing, and "acquire" some plasma. In getting that set up, here comes Mr. Vampire again, this time going after ME. Remember those pickaxes I mentioned? Well, he got clocked upside his nasty face by one of them. Last I heard, shattered his skull and blinded him. Pickaxes are good things.
Bout that time my plasma magically appears, so I hook up and go hunting. Evac shuttle gets called at the same time. I start taunting the vamp on comms again, trying to pull him into a fight to introduce him to my new friend.
Of course, the meddling AI ordered me to evac. What's that, AI? Static, comms must be going! Suit sensors failed too! Ohh well. Back to the hunt, dodging Beepsky and sec borgs.
I got down to the wire, and couldn't hold out any more. Rushed to join the evac and get off-station, WITH my cargo crew. So, Mr. Vampire, if you're reading this via Braille, I just want to let you know....rematch any time. Don't worry, Cargo doesn't discriminate against the blind OR brain damaged. Drop on by, we'll have a barbeque.
As an addendum, I've also acquired the nickname "Van Helsing" from fellow staff. It's apparently a character from a old earth television show. Pretty robust vampire hunter. I think I'll keep the name.
--Tao "VanHelsing" Fortis, Nanotrasen Certified Quartermaster, signing off.
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Ok, here's where I see the failure in Security, and it's at the "fun" point. I play this game to have fun. So do you, hypothetical sec person. If I am not having fun, I either don't want to play, or worse, feel like getting "revenge" on you for ruining my game time. Welcome to sec hell.
The fix is pretty simple, yet I don't know if SS13 has the ability. Talk to the person behind the keyboard. Ask them "are you having fun?". Some of us DON'T mind "shitcurity", when it's for the fun of the game. Sure, perma brig me 4noraisin, but expect me to attempt multiple escapes as long as I'm having fun.
NOW, if you are ruining someone else's fun, you are doing something wrong. If, you find out in your hypothetical "are you having fun?" question, you get an emphatic no and anger, consider knocking the brig time down. Explain in and OOC way that it's nothing personal, it's just characters being characters. Cut the time with the understanding that if the acting up keeps going on, it's crossed the line from in-char play to OOC griff, and will be reported as such.
Sec are not admins, and shouldn't act like admins punishing players behind the KB. Sec are players just like everyone else. You enhance my fun. I enhance yours. Fun can involve conflict.
Yes I plan on playing Sec. yes I plan on asking, in an OOC way, if my "targets" are having fun. Yes, I plan on cutting them loose if they aren't having fun, on the OOC understanding that further acting up is griff, not game.
And sec players, I've seen you do some heavy, grimdark stuff while I'm ghosting. I'd REALLY recommend, up to making it a server rule, that if you're going to do something grim like an execution, you clear it OOC with the person involved. Seriously, that can mess with people. If it's not OK, ask them to OOC quit the round or something similar.
Just so I'm not bashing sec here totally, for all the rest of us...If you're messing with sec to annoy the person behind the keyboard, you aren't playing our 2d spessman game. You're being a bodily orifice intended for the excretion of waste. Cut it the hell out. I see you pulling it, I'm not calling sec, I'm just going to quietly watch you and ahelp it. God forbid you really get on my nerves, coz I'll ghost the round and bird-dog you.
Shitcurity vs. Self-antags
in Public Archives
Posted
Personally, I tend to lean towards trustworthy for sec officers. It might be a little meta of me, but if I've worked with a sec guy in the past, and he or she has been generally trustworthy and reliable, I'll take their word when it comes to a "He said She said" dispute.
Something I see a lot of, and it's slightly related, is burden of proof. The burden of proof is "reasonable doubt", not perfect evidence. Catch a guy with Syndicate gear on them, reasonable doubt is they're a Syndicate agent, regardless if they come up with some "I found it on the floor" excuse. You don't need forensic evidence proving that Joe Snaplink used his uplink to specifically order that emag and used it on X door.