Jack Fractal

Posted May 1, 2015

The module selection window is awful. The backpack method is much superior. It's not perfect, but it's better then that danged selection window, especially for engineering cyborgs.

All cyborgs on paradise already have both huds integrated.

I think that most of the stuff with night vision is a bad idea, but taking away the specific flashlights for the cyborgs and giving them toggle-able headlamps would help. Right now mining cyborg on paradise is really awkward, as you can't see the ore box that you're dragging behind you without a light, and you need masons, your satchel, and your drill as your active tools to dig.

This means you end up doing a lot of module switching between the masons and the mining lantern while digging, which is an enormous hassle. Humanoid miners can put the lantern in their pocket, which makes things a heck of a lot easier.

Removing Changling Blood Test.

Posted April 22, 2015

Hmmm... that's a good point.

I get what you're saying but, in theory, if the change were unwanted enough, it would be something that people would keep complaining about. Like how they're complaining about the existing testing process, or like they complained about the holy-water tests for vampires.

So if it's removed, and nobody complains, then doesn't that just mean that it was the right thing to do?

Removing Changling Blood Test.

Posted April 22, 2015

Why don't we just take it out for a week and test it?

The worst that can happen is that changeling is slightly worse for a week and that people don't like the changes. If they don't, we put it back in. If people like the lack of test, then we take it back out.

Changes aren't forever. Why not just try something?

A beaker shelf for Chemistry

Posted April 20, 2015

It could be done, with shenanigans, that the beakers could be tinted like actual chemistry beakers. If you wanted to spend a long time on it...

Engineering cyborg minor change

Posted April 18, 2015

And that module is already one of the best ones. Engineering cyborg doesn't need more stuff, and I say that as someone who used to main engineering cyborg almost exclusively.

new lingtest?

Posted April 17, 2015

Don't comdom's already kill innocents?

new lingtest?

Posted April 17, 2015

What if instead of making it harder to test lings, we just make it less perfect. What if you could get false positives?

Like, if you're stung by a ling, then for like... ten minutes or so, you'll test positive for ling-ness. They leave enzymes in your blood that make it react the same way that theirs does, but those wear off after a small but significant amount of time.

This means that security can't just instantly kill someone who tests positive, because they might be an innocent victim. Instead, they have to hold onto them for a while and confirm the diagnosis. This gives lings a better chance of escape, gives them a way to throw off their pursuers, and also reinforces that healthy paranoia we all know and love, because if you're not a ling, and you test positive, then you have definitely been near someone who is.

Non-Antag objectives

Posted April 16, 2015

Use your fire extinguisher. The poor man's jetpack.

Balance syndi borg

Posted April 16, 2015

Last two times I played AI, this happened to me as well. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, is that a vampire? No it's just an incompetent Doctor, better check the - aaarghsyndiborginstantdeath!

You can turn your core lasers to lethal and set them to kill synthetics. I suspect that this is what you're 'supposed' to do, despite the enormous meta of doing so for no in-game reason.

The syndie-borg with it's all access pass to the doors and machinery of the station is also always the best return on investment for telecrystals. It's staggeringly lethal too, especially against civilians. I saw one massacre all of medbay in about a minute and a half. I regularly see them get double-digit numbers of kills.

They're cool, and I like them, but they miiight need to be toned down a bit.

Making aim mode less OP.

it turns out that bee code is actually reliant on Targeting code

...

Never change SS13.

Security Noob - A question of clocks

Hi everyone!

I just had a weird conversation in a round about following the advice in this thread. I was playing Warden, as I've been doing for the last few days and I had someone called Flip Zaun brought in by the Head of Security on charges of attacking a janitor (Assault - 10 minutes) and entering the Bridge without access (Major Trespass - 15 minutes).

He claimed to have been attacked by the janitor with a crowbar, but the Chief of Security was the one who brought them in, and then there was this:

Viktor Hark says, "Flip Zaun stalked me and my colleague earlier. He even punched me in the face a few times and ran off.."

They had not put up a fight, and they were quiet while being brigged, so I knocked off a few minutes on their timer for good behaviour.

I set it at 22 (15 + 10 - 3) minutes.

They then got upset:

Flip Zaun asks, "22 minutes?"

And reached out to the admins.

This is the record of my conversation with the admins:

PM from-Trial AdminScrat505: What is Flip Zaun arrested for?

PM from-Game AdminKluys: whats with those sentences?

PM to-Scrat505: Assault and entering the bridge illegally.

PM to-Scrat505: Assualt is 10 minutes, major tresspass is 15 minutes.

PM from-Game AdminKluys: thats 10 minutes

PM from-Game AdminKluys: sorry 15

PM to-Kluys: Right, so they're added together.

PM to-Kluys: Because they're non-overlapping crimes.

PM from-Game AdminKluys: no they arent

PM to-Kluys: There is a thread on the forums about this. I asked specifically.

At this point a lot of things were happening. I was in the middle of trying to release one prisoner, and brig another.

LOOC: Chloe Bell: I am responding to admins, sorry Skush.

So Kluey asked this:

PM from-Game AdminKluys: show it to me

So I had to alt-tab to go into the forums to find this thread. At that point I'm standing still. I don't see exactly how mad Flip Zaun is until I tab back in.

LOOC: Flip Zaun: ban chloe, hes shit warden giving prisoner random time

Cell 4 has been hit by Flip Zaun with the fire extinguisher.

I hadn't had a chance to process him yet, which is why he still had the fire extinguisher.

I tab back in, after having found this thread, but not being able to copy the url yet.

LOOC: Chloe Bell: Can you please stop that while I talk to the admins.

He doesn't seem to want to listen:

Cell 4 has been hit by Flip Zaun with the fire extinguisher.

Cell 4 has been hit by Flip Zaun with the fire extinguisher.

LOOC: Chloe Bell: Please stop

So he gets out and starts attacking me and Skush, the other prisoner I still hadn't gotten in a cell yet. We yackity sax for a bit inside the cell area and he downs us both with the fire extinguisher and then my taser. Then the admins boop him and he collapses, and we're both revived. Hurrah.

I finally get to send Kluey the link to this thread:

PM to-Kluys: Here is the thread: http://nanotrasen.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4155

PM to-Kluys: The consensus was that non-overlapping crimes are combined

PM from-Game AdminKluys: disregard that, i need to talk with neca

PM to-Kluys: So, just to be clear, overlapping sentences are NOT to be combined?

PM from-Game AdminKluys: yes, 15 minutes is maximum

PM to-Kluys: All right, please specify that in that thread.

If I were given an unreasonably long brig sentence I would be upset as well. I don't think I'd start randomly attacking people with a fire extinguisher, but I understand his irritation.

This needs to be worked out, and whatever decision is made it needs to be widely distributed to both the player base and the administrative team to avoid this kind of situation in the future.

I'm really glad I asked about this, because I think without this thread things would have gone differently.

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

All right, thank you everyone for clarifying. I apologize if I came off as hostile in this thread, I had a number of very stressful rounds involving this issue and I was not having the best week.

If I encounter this as a problem again I'll make a poll about it.

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

So, to be clear, in order to allow people to relieve stress through in-game suicide, you're opposed to criminalizing graphic self-harm in-game or out of game?

All right.

Are you speaking for the entire administrative team when you tell me that there is no chance of this happening?

Also if security is supposed to ignore self harm, could you point me to the section of the wiki that explains that? I'd like to have a link handy the next time that a brig physician/lawyer/captain/IAA/Magistrate gets upset about that.

Thanks.

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

RE: Forced Cryo.

Did you read my list? That's why.

They can pick up where they left off, yes, but while they're out, they're actually out.

RE: You should just let them do it

If it's absolutely vital that suicide be available at all time to all players with no repercussions either in game or out of game (a stance I find baffling but whatever), then you need to clarify that, both in the rules of the server, and the rules of the station.

I suggest a proviso in Space Law. Something like "Security is not responsible for the health or welfare of prisoners in any way. Should they try to hurt themselves, Security is under no obligation of any kind to assist them or to provide medical attention."

That would work.

RE: It being within the rules

Fine, that's why I'm asking for the rules to be changed. That's what this whole thread is about.

RE: It not being a burden.

You seem to be missing the part where I mentioned the prolonged time-frame under which these self-harm incidents often take place. Your repeated statement's that you can just take them to the morgue or the Chaplain are not accurate.

This is not "Goodbye cruel world! *stab* *stab* *stab* Bleurgh!"

That's dumb, but at least it's over quickly.

This is between ten and forty minutes of someone hurting themselves, begging for attention, screaming for help over the radio, fielding calls from concerned station crew about security murdering people, getting them healed, getting them surgery, them hurting themselves again, more screaming, more radio chatter, more screaming, escape attempts, attempts to dismember themselves, attacks on the brig physician, demands for a lawyer, attacks on the lawyer, and on and on and on.

Like I said, this isn't "I don't want to play anymore," it's "I want to torture the people around me by making an absolute ass of myself in every way I can."

If you don't consider that grief, I tremble to imagine the kind of things that actually make your list.

RE: The Point

Is there anything gained by this being allowed, in game or out of game?

Nobody's answered that question.

You've just said it's allowed, not why it's allowed. Is there some amazing reason I'm missing? Have I somehow missed out on the great secret of repeatedly electrocuting yourself and attacking the people who try to heal you? Is this some part of the game I've missed?

I feel left out.

Please explain.

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

It's not permabrig, it's "You're out for fifteen minutes".

Also, you're trying to commit suicide... so your goals are pretty clear there. You want to leave the round. This would just speed up the process. If you don't want to leave the round then you are, by definition, griefing, and you should be banned.

The infrastructure of the station is not equipped to handle the violently insane. Slow self-suicide is not something reasonable people do, and it's not something that can be prevented. Letting people slowly murder themselves is against any level of RP. If this were a no-rp server, that'd be fine, but someone slowly slitting their own wrists while wailing about it over public coms is awful to watch, and worse to try to prevent.

I can't emphasize enough, people who do this ruin the round for people forced to interact with them.

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

On the topic of Brig timers and SSDs, I feel like our brig needs something of an overhaul or change.

/agree

It's not particularly functional now, and it's a bore for prisoners. I love the idea of a main cell you toss people in, but you'd need to modify prisoner processing works.

Hmm!

Ideas...

I'm pretty sure if suicide was made bannable than lot's of people would just plain leave, this isn't concentration camp 13 y'know.

Leave as in SSD? Yeah, probably. I know I've been tempted the few times I've ended up in jail.

Jail is boring. That's a problem, but it's a separate problem then this one.

SSD isn't a problem though. It's quiet, it doesn't leave confusing corpses, it doesn't irritate everyone around you, and we've all pretty much figured out how to deal with it in character.

I feel like a lot of this would be resolved if we added some sort of cryodorms for the prisoners.

Problem with this is people will specifically use cyrodorms as a way to cap sentences to 15 minutes.

Got brigged for longer than 15 minutes? No problem; just cryodorm yourself and respawn as something else--especially if you're Pubbie McAssistant.

Bay has Cryodorms only in permabrig.

I don't think this would be as much of an issue though, even if it were an option for non-perma prisoners.

I don't really like long brig sentences. It's dreadfully dull for the prisoners. Getting dunked for a long time (Like, say, resisting arrest (5 minutes) after getting caught stealing (10 minutes) something in a secure area (15 minutes) with a weapon (10 minutes))and then opting out like that? Makes sense. You can come back into the round and do something else.

Of course, coming back into the round and doing exactly the same thing again... yeah ok. I could see some people doing that, but they'll just get dunked again, and while they're in cryo they're:

quiet
not taking up a cell

not taking up a job slot

not bleeding all over the place

not screaming over the radio

not destroying the brig

not constantly trying to escape

These are all bonuses in my book.

Good for prisoners, good for jailors, good for everyone.

So far the only argument I've heard for allowing suicide is "There was one person once who had a cool character built around inventive suicide," and fair enough. I never played with her, maybe she was awesome, but this is an omnipresent problem. This isn't something that happens once a week, this happens multiple times a round.

If it's a bridge too far to have suicide be a bannable offence, can we at least make it a sign of major mental illness in game, and have standard procedure be to lock them in a cryo-chamber so that they can be sent to a proper mental health facility at Centcom?

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

I'm not sure if I'm communicating the situation clearly.

Someone who strips themselves naked, and then slowly, over literally ten minutes, beats themselves to death with their own fists while screaming repeatedly over the radio...

That isn't grief?

And, on the flip side, what is gained by allowing that to happen? How does that in any way improve the community? Why are self mutilating naked prisoners cutting off their own limbs with shards of glass while yelling profanities, a good thing?

I don't know about the rest of the people who play security, but I would much rather deal with a traitor or a changeling then someone doing this. At least if I get dunked it's over. It doesn't drag on for half the round.

I am completely baffled by this perspective. How is the correct response to this, 'lets remove the restriction from the wiki'? Am I missing some vital piece of information here?

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

The issue isn't using the suicide verb, nor is it removing yourself from the round. SSD is quiet. I don't want people to stick around for a 25 minutes brig timer if that will bore them to tears. I wish I could RP with prisoners more, but I'm so run off my feet all the time as Warden that I really never get around to it.

Go SSD all you want.

SSD is fine, and if you're not in jail, we have Cryodorms for a reason.

It's the slowly beating yourself to death with your own shoes that's really unpleasant. Or smashing the light, using it to break the window, and then repeatedly electrocuting yourself on the grill. Or stripping naked and shooting yourself in the head in the sec lobby.

That's not 'I don't want to play anymore', that's "I want to cause the maximum amount of irritation, confusion, and frustration to everyone around me because I am an enormous asshole."

There is no 'in universe' way to deal with it. It creates a corpse which raise ridiculous questions ("Why is the mime dead in Cell 3?" "Oh, he beat him to death with his shoes." *ten minutes later* "Why is the mime dead in the morgue?" "Oh! He beat himself to death with his shoes!"), and the Chaplains bible creates those immobile spooky bones that you can't ever get rid of.

The 'prisoners are not allowed to suicide' thing may not be a rule, I don't know where those are specifically listed, but it IS on the wiki, under the section about "For the Prisoners."

Can we please make self harm and suicide a bannable offense?

What it says on the tin. Unless you're in extreme circumstances, such as trapped without oxygen, or a member of the syndicate, can we make self-harm and suicide illegal? Like, actually illegal?

I've had a ridiculous number of prisoners try to off themselves, I now have to confiscate all criminal chaplains bibles because they WILL gib themselves on it (three this week), and I've had the same Head of Security go into the armory, strip naked, and shoot themselves in the head. They did this twice, on two separate rounds.

I had a round this week where the Head of Security stripped naked and shot himself (a different one this time, seems to be a habit for them), and then the detective, who he had tried to appoint as the new head of Security, ALSO shot himself.

The wiki says it's bannable for prisoners, but it doesn't look like it's being enforced very hard, because I see it almost every round.

colorful reagent + Ian

All hail our glowing technicolor canine overlord.

Muh Immursion

Posted April 9, 2015

That's a hard give FoS.

If either side play in bad faith, then the one who shoots first wins.

The weird thing for me is, as someone who's been maining sec for about two weeks now, I seldom interact with antags. I'm almost always dealing with grief/greytide. I spend most of the last round I played dealing with people just running around naked for no reason. I'd brig them for five minutes, they'd leave, take their clothes off, I'd brig them for another five minutes, rinse and repeat. That's not fun for anyone. I can see why 2/3rds of Security go SSD by the one hour mark.

The Head of Sec runs around with the Detective and the Captain, not talking to anyone most of the time, and I assume they deal with antags, but the only antags I run into are vampires. Vampires seem to have a problem with subtlety and also not dying horribly.

The thing I'm interested in is why this cultural change has taken place. Like Spacemanspark said, there seems to be a consensus among the long-term players that Paradise has slipped from 'medium-rp' to 'low-rp' over the last half a year or so.

Is it just the increasing popularity of the server or was it a conscious decision on the part of the admin staff?

R&D is weirder then I thought

Posted April 7, 2015

Eh, I just made a pull request fixing this.

R&D is weirder then I thought