necaladun Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 UO- You shouldn't be involving yourself in an arrest as non-sec. If you do and let a changeling or vampire get away, you're putting the crew in jepoardy, something which is deserving of a space law charge if the magistrate or warden deem it so. AoP- The idea for this charge was to introduce brig time as a measure for individuals who take actions deserving further punishment than a demotion. If you choose a privileged position and knowingly abuse it to such a degree, you deserve more than a demotion. EI-Demotions aren't an effective way of preventing harassment of a crew member. The most likely job to be harassing someone is a civilian or clown, both of whom are more or less ineligible to be demoted in any meaningful way. Without such a charge, there's simply no way for such a person to be punished without delivering a sentence outside of space law, which indicated a need for the crime to be introduced. Again, all of these are way too subjective and open to differing interpretation. Crimes need a clear line to cross that the person doing it -knows- they have crossed. It shouldn't be up to the warden/magistrate to deem whether or not it is a crime. Either it is or it isn't. It should not be up to them to try to determine. To abuse your position, you either do so by committing a crime - which is a crime in itself - or you don't. What consists of abuse of a position needs to be able to clearly be defined in 2-3 sentences. These definitions to not. El - Harassment is subjective. If what they're doing is illegal, then it's illegal and they can be punished. If it's not, then it shouldn't be punished. There is no definition here as to what constitutes harassment or not. Again, to clarify - Crimes need to be able to be simply and easily defined within a few sentences, and NOT open to interpretation. Murder, assault, theft, kidnapping, sabotage, are all quite clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allfd Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm pretty sure head revs can be exiled or sent to the labor camp to count as a failed rev head. If not, probably should, the heads and rev heads should be on equal ground. And as for your other points, those are covered by escaping from permabrig- if they insist on resisting, execution is allowed. I like this and the separation of permanent from execution. I really like that enemy of the corporation is in permanent. I think changing the permanent brig to include some additional opportunities for visitation and interaction would be nice to go along to the changes with space law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veganzombeh Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Oh god Neca, I think I love you. I really like the separation of permanent and capital crimes. Note that this is one of the few crimes where you may summarily execute someone, if they present a significant risk to detain them. Should still be under Enemy of the Corporation, given that it's not an executable crime? I'd still like to see a Neglect of Duty-esque crime. Perhaps "Abandonment of Post - Intentionally leaving the station while there is no one else to do your job"? Perhaps also a "Perversion of Justice" crime. Withholding evidence, interfering with crime scenes, lying to security. It's kind of covered by the False Witness modifier anyway though. Also, IMO the "Re-education" modifier should also apply to cultists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The only neglection of duty that should exist is "dereliction of duty" which is WANTON abandonment of a very high priority job without doing anything, ever. Ie: CE set's up the engine and doens't do much the rest of the shift? NOT dereliction of duty. RD helps max RD then plays with his toys and does nothign else the rest of the shift? NOT dereliction of duty. Doctor having a drink in the bar? NOT dereliction of duty. What is? CE refusing to do anything--not even setting up the engine. RD immediately abandoning his post and going on a spess adventure. Captain leaving his disk and such on his desk and faffing off on the gateway---etc...generally speaking, it's a charge that wouldn't apply to most people....only *crucial* station jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadApple797 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I do think we could use something to charge people with when they kidnap people, as assault is a bit meh I think some form of neglect of duty is called for, mainly for people who join as CE or HOP then immediately fuck off into space or something I think some form of "Abuse of the Justice System" is needed, for people who try and knowingly get people brigged/arrested/executed when they didn't actually do anything to warrant it. This would be for the bigger shitcurity assholes, and people who falsely accuse others of crimes. The word ''Knowingly'' needs to be in there, as we don't want officers who mistakenly arrest the wrong person being harassed too much about it (provided they fix it up) I kinda want battery back: Most things that used to get you arrested for battery now just get upgraded to assault. A single accidental disarm or thrown rubbish shouldn't be able to land you ten minutes. That said, most officers gave you assault anyway, even when we had battery, and it kinda meant you could be arrested for hugging. Obviously the thing I really want is for Officers to me more answerable for when they are complete assholes. Basically they can arrest anyone they want for anything they want without repercussion, only getting any sort of IC consequences when its already reaching admin intervention territory. But thats purely a pipe dream with our RP level and average amount of chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 I do think we could use something to charge people with when they kidnap people, as assault is a bit meh Kidnapping has been added. I think some form of neglect of duty is called for, mainly for people who join as CE or HOP then immediately fuck off into space or something This is more "job-ban" worthy. I think some form of "Abuse of the Justice System" is needed, for people who try and knowingly get people brigged/arrested/executed when they didn't actually do anything to warrant it. This would be for the bigger shitcurity assholes, and people who falsely accuse others of crimes. The word ''Knowingly'' needs to be in there, as we don't want officers who mistakenly arrest the wrong person being harassed too much about it (provided they fix it up) False Witness: Intentionally lying to cause another to be brigged results in the brig time of the charge the original person was brigged for. I kinda want battery back: Most things that used to get you arrested for battery now just get upgraded to assault. A single accidental disarm or thrown rubbish shouldn't be able to land you ten minutes. That said, most officers gave you assault anyway, even when we had battery, and it kinda meant you could be arrested for hugging. 102 - minor assault. Obviously the thing I really want is for Officers to me more answerable for when they are complete assholes. Basically they can arrest anyone they want for anything they want without repercussion, only getting any sort of IC consequences when its already reaching admin intervention territory. But thats purely a pipe dream with our RP level and average amount of chaos. Officers just making shit up and arresting people for things they didn't do is utter shitcurity, and should be ahelped. Officers arresting people for things that aren't a crime are complete shitcurity, and should be ahelped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I kinda want battery back: Most things that used to get you arrested for battery now just get upgraded to assault. A single accidental disarm or thrown rubbish shouldn't be able to land you ten minutes. That said, most officers gave you assault anyway, even when we had battery, and it kinda meant you could be arrested for hugging. 102 - minor assault. Assault and Battery are two different things. In common law, assault is the act of creating apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact with a person. An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. Battery is a criminal offense involving unlawful physical contact, distinct from assault which is the act of creating apprehension of such contact. I.E. Someone treating to attack you, brandishing a weapon while confronting you, or trying to force you into a confrontation despite your efforts to avoid it would be assault. This also includes failed attempts to attack you, such as missed swings or throwing objects at you but not making physical contact. On the other hand, someone who walked up to you and tripped, flashed, pepper sprayed or attacked you for no apparent reason and without warning would simply be battery, not assault. Someone who approached you, pulled out a knife or weapon and made threats towards you, then acted upon those threats and stabbed or attacked you would be assault and battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 This is done for ease of what people are used to. Space law has always referred to assault as "To use physical force against someone without the apparent intent to kill them." Assault is a more commonly known term - we're going by more of the dictionary definition than the common law definition here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KasparoVv Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I couldn't possibly condone this any more than I already do Proper laws, LOTS of laws, YEESSSSSSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadApple797 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Officers just making shit up and arresting people for things they didn't do is utter shitcurity, and should be ahelped. Officers arresting people for things that aren't a crime are complete shitcurity, and should be ahelped. My problem here is that I think we should still have an IC crime for these, even if they are ahelp territory, and that we can thralled/antag/whatever officers. I guess they are probably going to get more serious crimes if they get found out so idk. And the false witness thing I could only find in the modifiers (I think its with immediate release) but there doesn't seem to be anything for punishment of people who commit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 My problem here is that I think we should still have an IC crime for these, even if they are ahelp territory, and that we can thralled/antag/whatever officers. I guess they are probably going to get more serious crimes if they get found out so idk. ...Stupidly I had never considered that. I'll add something because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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