Admin Complaint: w3bster

[Marlan]

 

Admin Key: w3bster

 

Complaint: Banned for "shuttlegrief" for a day, even though I was not griefing*. I was defending myself against someone else who was tazing me. (Fox Mcloud). This admin did not even say a single word. He did not ask me anything. He did not investigate the matter at all. He simply dropped the ban hammer. This is disgusting behavior for an admin. A good admin would at least investigate or ask a couple questions. It's things like this that make me not want to play SS13. Admins are usually terrible on these servers.

 

*I stunned a guy who looked like a traitor and he was lasering security, and then was trying to put handcuffs on him. Fox McCloud comes out of nowhere and point blank tazer guns me like 10 times. I get back up and try to taze him back once, but he tazes me like 6 more times then the round ends and I get banned.

 

I forgot to take a screenshot of his lack of speech. But I'm sure you can find it in the logs.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[Regen]

 

Well, first of you'd be better of making a ban appeal explaining your situation, however seeing as this is a complaint I will only address the parts of where the admin in question is being complained about.

 

He did not investigate the matter at all. He simply dropped the ban hammer. This is disgusting behavior for an admin. A good admin would at least investigate or ask a couple questions. It's things like this that make me not want to play SS13. Admins are usually terrible on these servers.

 

The fact of the matter is, at the end of the round we have a very limited timezone of where we can actually act, investigation requires you to PM both parties, look in attack logs and maybe even server logs, all this while also looking for other griefers and people overstepping the rules (Such as vulgar language ETC)

Take this, then mix in Admin logs, attack logs, OOC, Deadchat and IC chat..

Well lets just say you have a very short timespan of where a reply would show in the chatlog.

Thus we as admins have to act quick, and most of the times we do not have time for big explanations from the players / looking for an explanation in the logs.

 

You preach about how this is "Disgusting behavior from an admin" while showing no actual knowledge of how it is to be an admin.

I feel like some insight in our actual job would do you great, as being an admin is not just all "Events and !!FUN!!"

 

This is again, why I would suggest making an appeal instead of an admin complaint, because banning without much investigation at round end is not something new, and this is the first complaint about it

 

[Marlan]

 

There is no point making an appeal. It's a 1 day ban. By the time you replied it is already almost over. By the time I see your reply and am replying there is only 1 hour left.

 

I have been an admin on other games before (not this one) and I understand what it is like to be an admin. Banning without talking to the parties however, is terrible. He could have at least talked in the next round. A quick PM "We need to talk next round, don't leave yet." should be suffice. If they leave, then sure, drop the 1 day ban. But at least then I know he tried. I am very annoyed because this has happened multiple times before in SS13 (though, first time in your server), admins ban without any talking at all. I understand there must be plenty of idiots who are pointless to even try to talk to, but it's still expected.

 

And why not ban them from playing, essentially a "every job ban" so they can spectate and PM the admin? I couldn't even join the server to ask him what happened. And clearly he doesn't follow the forums very often.

 

You could also work on integrating a better system. Filters for chat as to remove deadchat, and only display related players, Logs that are accessible post round, etc. There should be definitive PROOF that the person was breaking a rule before banning them, not just look like it.

 

Imagine if cops could arrest you because it "looked like" you were driving fast, but their speed radar was broken. That wouldn't hold up for 3 seconds in court.

 

He clearly banned me because he saw me attack someone on the shuttle. But I wasn't griefing, I was defending myself against someone else who was either griefing or trying to kill me. If he either took the time to investigate (which apparently isn't possible) or talked to us in the next round, he could have at least tried to investigate. Why aren't the logs available in future rounds to admins? Are they not stored on the server? You don't have to give them box access, just set up a system that dumps logs into say, dropbox that admins can access.

 

[Regen]

 

These are all good suggestions, but it boils down to this.

 

W3bster did what he was told.

He did not overstep the line in banning you at end round without question.

 

The complaint is not going to go through to actually give him an "Infraction" or "warning"

More like a suggestion to perhaps change the system / our method of dealing with it.

 

I am in no position to cast final judgement on an admin complaint, but these are my two cents

 

[W3bster]

 

I have been an admin on other games before (not this one) and I understand what it is like to be an admin. Banning without talking to the parties however, is terrible. He could have at least talked in the next round. A quick PM "We need to talk next round, don't leave yet." should be suffice. If they leave, then sure, drop the 1 day ban. But at least then I know he tried. I am very annoyed because this has happened multiple times before in SS13 (though, first time in your server), admins ban without any talking at all. I understand there must be plenty of idiots who are pointless to even try to talk to, but it's still expected.

 

Let me explain the situation here. With a stun prod, (Illegal weapon), you began stunning another crewmember. Fox sees this. Fox begins shooting you with a stun gun. You begin shooting lasers at him. Both show up in my logs. The rules are clear. No matter the circumstances, no shuttlegrief. If that means you having to be stunned for the last 30 seconds to 1-2 minutes of the round, then so be it.

 

 

And why not ban them from playing, essentially a "every job ban" so they can spectate and PM the admin? I couldn't even join the server to ask him what happened. And clearly he doesn't follow the forums very often.

 

If we were to take such measures to get in contact with every single players we have to, we'd go insane. The fact that you are banned, gives you the option to post an appeal. Even if the ban runs out before an admin can respond to an appeal, it will be the official channel through which we will convey the reasons of the ban. If anything, you may also contact me on the BYOND Pager. I have my BYOND pager open as long as my computer is. Many players contact me through that and get a near instant, if not instant response to their inquiriy.

 

 

You could also work on integrating a better system. Filters for chat as to remove deadchat, and only display related players, Logs that are accessible post round, etc. There should be definitive PROOF that the person was breaking a rule before banning them, not just look like it. Imagine if cops could arrest you because it "looked like" you were driving fast, but their speed radar was broken. That wouldn't hold up for 3 seconds in court.

 

If we were to filter out channels, that would mean those channels would be unmonitored. Which would mean we could not enforce the rules there. Admins require to be near-omnicisent to properly administrate. This means constant damagelogs, dead chat and globally seeing LOOC. That gives us a wider range of action in a shorter span of time. As it seems you are insinuating that you did not break the rule, let me put it straight. You did. You shot lasers, as a non-antag, for no definite reason, on the escape shuttle.

 

 

 

He clearly banned me because he saw me attack someone on the shuttle. But I wasn't griefing, I was defending myself against someone else who was either griefing or trying to kill me. If he either took the time to investigate (which apparently isn't possible) or talked to us in the next round, he could have at least tried to investigate. Why aren't the logs available in future rounds to admins? Are they not stored on the server? You don't have to give them box access, just set up a system that dumps logs into say, dropbox that admins can access.

 

Yes. Logs are availible to admins. Yet i had them live. And saw it live. Hence, i gave judgement and acted as necessary. Although, if you are curious, let me tell you how does watching previous round logs go.

 

Step 1 : Find the server date. Yes. Server timezone differs from admins's. Hence, whilst it may be 10/2/14 for the admin, the server may be 12/1/14 or 12/3/14.

Step 2 : Using the debug verb AdvancedProcCall. This allows us to directly call procs. In this case, we use GetServerLog. We then link the proc to our client and set 0 args.

Step 3 : Navigate the 2014 section, september section, 30th section.

Step 4 : Scroll through the log of the entire day. If necessary, use the CTRL+F feature to rapidly scroll through a user's logs. Scroll through all of that user's logs until you find what you want.

Step 5 : Filter out the fuzzing. Logs do not magically contain what we want. They contain all debug, attack, emotes, speech (all radio channels and local), OOC and LOOC.

Step 6 : Try to figure out what happened from the logs and witness accounts from all involved parties. Logs are one thing. What actually happened may be another. Although logs most of the time give us a clear view of what happened.

 

I have just taken the steps above to once again verify your logs. You stun prod someone, fox shoots a taser at you, you shoot lasers at them. Even if i had looked back or asked you, it is clear. You griefed on the shuttle by shooting someone with lasers.

 

[W3bster]

NOTICE : No longer admin due to retirement. Complaint no longer valid.