Medical Suggestions

[TeDGamer]

 

Hi, I'm a relatively new player to this server and seeing as I've played a lot by now and have experience with the medical system, I would like to give some suggestions.

 

First off, thanks for the new overdose system. That way it offers us a way to kill our patients new challenge in the medical system ( as though it wasn't challenging enough to keep even half the people alive ).

 

However, with this new system, some things have to make way.

 

First of all, with this new system, there's no way to detect an overdose of meds for undetectable meds. This leads to complications, though as I said earlier it adds to the assassination/euthanization/killing challenge. If we are able to diagnose it though, that's good because ....

 

It finally gives meaning to dialysis. This way we can pump out all the bad chemicals. However, there is currently no way to empty a beaker other than spilling it on the floor ( as if the medbay wasn't bloody enough after an hour ) or if they have access to the chem mixer, go through the task of adding it to the buffer and then to the disposal. One suggestion is to make such a way possible ( like dumping it into the sink )

 

Next, with the new overdose system (and the fact that most drugs are the same color), cryo cells should tell you what chemicals are inside the beaker. In this way, you can make sure they do not overdose if they already have a ton of the same medication in their system already.

 

Another thing that should be done is medically ID protecting the fridge. After all, there is another way to kill silently harm others when providing medicine. Also, some of my shifts, SOME CIVVIE WALKS RIGHT IN AND STEALS ALL THE MEDS!!! But I digress, medically ID protecting the fridge should help somewhat in stopping people from coming right in and walking right out with the medication. That's what the request desk is for.

 

Now for other medical suggestions not related to the overdose system:

 

First some balancing. I know this is a bit metagamey and powergamey, but gibbing a human probably yields more than 3 meats. To clone someone, it requires 150 biomass ( 3 meats of anything ). This needs to be balanced in that maybe gibbing provides less, different levels of cloning ( malnourished, normal, fat ), some sort of balancing that would lead to the corpses not being gibbed for biomasses.

 

Regarding the biomass, just like there is a plant bag that can pick up tons of plants off the floor and put it in the biogenerator, there should be a meat bag. This way, the tedious task of throwing in synmeat to the cloning pod will be much easier.

 

Far off sugestions/ improving the medbay:

 

A way to make soap. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE KEEP STEALING THE SOAP AND NOT SAYING THEY HAVE IT? DO WE NEED TO RENDER FAT FROM PEOPLE AND MAKE IT INTO SOAP? IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? HUMAN SOAP MADE FOR HUMANS? Right now, operating tables won't take the cleaners anymore ( probably will be fixed soon ) so we can't clean the blood underneat the tables. We also can't get under sleepers or body scanners so soap is very important. Thankfully, there's one UNTIL SOMEONE STEALS IT so if a way is made to make soap, balancing should make it have several uses so more soap needs to be made FROM THE MEAT OF THE THIEVES

 

Wheelchairs has been brought up. Crutches too.

 

Others that I can't think of at the moment.

 

Edit: Like making the patients locker feasible. Don't allow surgery to be done on someone with a hardsuit on or at least nothing other than the patient clothes provided in the lockers to do surgery. It's weird scalpeling someone's chest when there's armor that can stop bullets.

 

Edit 2: More so suggestiosn can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2083&sid=03cb9de72397e598b1b762f3fa8518be#p11381

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Guest

[Fj45]

 

Hazmat shutters that can easily be used as an airlock system (in the main entrance) would be great.

 

Move the viro entrance over to where the medbay hazmat storage is. Use the hazmat storage as a corridoor for viro.

Add a duel set of hazmat doors to the little hallway with the soap that leads to iso. Have a bolt button to airlock those doors.

 

[TeDGamer]

 

Oh yeah, speaking of viro. Let there be a way for them to cure a virus without needing to use radium.....otherwise, what's the point of viro? Radium is meant to be a dangerous way to cure, but you need chemistry dispenser for that.

 

 

Also a quarantine area in viro would be great. Better than bringing to iso where they can expose the entire medbay staff.

 

[Fj45]

Thats a bug, I hope its fixed soon as we just had an extreamly deadly, fast spreading, incurable virus wipe out 90% of the station

[Streaky Haddock]

 

Health Analysers (NOT the medical scanner in your PDA, but an actual health analyser that comes from a medkit) can tell you if bones are broken, if limbs are broken, if there's brain damage or internal bleeding as WELL AS how many healing chemicals are in your patient.

So if you see 160 units of tricordrazine in your patient and they're taking heavy tox damage, you'll know they've overdosed.

 

Though it only works for healing chemicals, so if someone's overdose on hyperzine you're stuck scratching your head.

 

[Fj45]

 

Medbay needs some kind way to hands MCI better, everytime theres an rad storm or deadly virus medbay just turns into a vomit-slide.

 

Plastic sick bags that start as stacks of five (pull em open to use) would be very useful. They should stop vomiting and sneezing if carried in one of your hands.

Sterile plastic sheets that stack and are easily to quickly place would be good. They should mostly stop people from vomiting but shouldn't be as good as a normal bodybag. The best use for them would be that huge line of bodys that ends up next to cloning.

 

[TeDGamer]

 

Played more over the past few days and some things I observed.

 

With the recent addition of the overdose system, it leads to a lot of problems.

 

Not a lot of doctors are "well-informed" and kill patients accidentally. This leads to a lot of unfun and well, accidental killings. Of course they can be cloned....

 

Not. Combining ryetalyn or alkysine with clonex or cryox somehow kills them. No idea how considering it injects only a few units but I've accused someone of accidentally being a changeling for putting ryetalyn bottle (30 units) in the cryo beaker when in reality they were just a normal person. The ryetalyn caused toxin damage till he went completely critical and died. Only 16 units was injected the first time and 14 units the second time using the rest of the bottle. The toxin damage started after being in the cryo cell for a while. It seems that there are drugs that act toxically for some strange reason in cryo cells. 15 is the OD limit so the first time would make some sense but the second time makes no sense as it never reaches the OD limit to start taking damage.

 

One of my new suggestions from what people have observed and I've heard is that the kit medicine and sleeper medicine need to be removed or raised higher. To a degree that it shouldn't be possible for a real doctor to accidentally kill them. Inaprovaline, Anti-tox, sopoforic, and dexalin. Also kelotane because it can be found in burn kits. I also recommend that they be increased to a greater amount than the amount found in kits which is generally 90 units. (Anti-tox has more because of the syringes so increase situationally. Else every kit can become a killer kit as they are now if you feed them more than a certain amount.

 

I understand that not much updates has happened since the new OD update so I'm hoping to see dialysis updates or cryo cells updates soon. They would be really useful to prevent new doctors/ returning doctors that haven't been here since it's implementation from accidentally killing the patients.

 

New optionals (Far off ideas somewhat that should only be done when everything else is balanced and working) that I thought up of:

 

Well new chemicals if possible. Even if they're hard to make. With the new od system it's hard to make too much of one medicine knowing it can kill someone so more chemicals that do similar things so that we can work around the OD system. One thing I thought up of is RP chemicals. No purpose other than for RP wise such as truth serums. (they get a message like "You feel you must tell the absolute truth and nothing but the truth" or something like when you take anti-depressants or get implanted). I mean that's the purpose of anti-depressants. A few more should be interesting if possible to add.

Edit: Such as laxatives or something to increase body odor. Adds purpose to bathrooms and showers. Great way to mess with people too.

A medicine that allows you to deal with pressure but makes you bigger in the process ( has possibility of gibbing you eventually)

A clone damage medicine that doesn't have hard to use ingredients but much, much weaker so as not to unbalance cryo (gives geneticist a chance to have a resort of powers without having them needing to be completely near cryo all the time without losing purpose to their limbs)

Pest spray. How the hell would the botanist get more.

Well napalms gone so maybe a way to make oil instead or something that's flammable that doesn't need to be able to burn through walls like thermite.

Maybe a med that lowers their body temperature so like a med that puts you into near cryo, unconscious state if you take enough.

Alien specific drugs. Dex+ wouldn't work on a vox.

 

Nitroglycerin doesn't seem to be working according to a partner chemist in one round. Get rid of it I guess.

 

A purpose to tungsten. Used to make coolant, now has no purpose.

 

Restore hyperzine to speed up people or do something <- useful but needs to be balanced of course. Right now it's just a RP drug (only if addiction is brought back). Tried to see if it actually allowed hardsuiters to walk normally but didn't get a response from engineer that round.

Also restore the use of potassium chloride and potassium chlorophoride in surgeries. (Add back sterilizine or the thing that sterilizes wounds so that it can help with infections too)

 

If addiction is brought back, a way to make fixer or something to help with addiction that isn't low chance. It doesn't need to be easy to make. Water is too low of a chance as well as sleep. There's also the fact that the addiction can develop so that it can have copies of addictions. I think I saw a botanist when the addiction system was in with 5 addictions to space drugs. Giving them space drugs of 50 units didn't lower their stage or lowered only one of them. So that hopefully will be fixed somehow.

 

Noticed in code there were two anti-tox. Not sure if intentional but it might be leading to the buggy behavior of not being able to overdose on it (which is great cause it's a basic med).

 

[Bone White]

 

First of all, with this new system, there's no way to detect an overdose of meds for undetectable meds. This leads to complications, though as I said earlier it adds to the assassination/euthanization/killing challenge. If we are able to diagnose it though, that's good because ....

 

Use the mass-spectrometer in chemistry on some of the patient's blood.

 

It finally gives meaning to dialysis. This way we can pump out all the bad chemicals. However, there is currently no way to empty a beaker other than spilling it on the floor ( as if the medbay wasn't bloody enough after an hour ) or if they have access to the chem mixer, go through the task of adding it to the buffer and then to the disposal. One suggestion is to make such a way possible ( like dumping it into the sink )

 

Never tried dialysis. I'll take a look at it sometime.

 

Next, with the new overdose system (and the fact that most drugs are the same color), cryo cells should tell you what chemicals are inside the beaker. In this way, you can make sure they do not overdose if they already have a ton of the same medication in their system already.

 

This will not happen, you can label the beaker with a pen, or you can eject it and mass spectrometer it. If it automatically displayed the chemicals, then using it for assassination wouldn't be effective.

 

Another thing that should be done is medically ID protecting the fridge. After all, there is another way to kill silently harm others when providing medicine. Also, some of my shifts, SOME CIVVIE WALKS RIGHT IN AND STEALS ALL THE MEDS!!! But I digress, medically ID protecting the fridge should help somewhat in stopping people from coming right in and walking right out with the medication. That's what the request desk is for.

 

I agree with this.

 

Now for other medical suggestions not related to the overdose system:

 

First some balancing. I know this is a bit metagamey and powergamey, but gibbing a human probably yields more than 3 meats. To clone someone, it requires 150 biomass ( 3 meats of anything ). This needs to be balanced in that maybe gibbing provides less, different levels of cloning ( malnourished, normal, fat ), some sort of balancing that would lead to the corpses not being gibbed for biomasses.

 

The biomass grows in the cloner using the dna material and stem cells. More meat coming from a gibbed corpse in this way makes sense.

 

Regarding the biomass, just like there is a plant bag that can pick up tons of plants off the floor and put it in the biogenerator, there should be a meat bag. This way, the tedious task of throwing in synmeat to the cloning pod will be much easier.

 

Cloning is balanced to be time consuming.

 

Far off sugestions/ improving the medbay:

 

A way to make soap. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE KEEP STEALING THE SOAP AND NOT SAYING THEY HAVE IT? DO WE NEED TO RENDER FAT FROM PEOPLE AND MAKE IT INTO SOAP? IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? HUMAN SOAP MADE FOR HUMANS? Right now, operating tables won't take the cleaners anymore ( probably will be fixed soon ) so we can't clean the blood underneat the tables. We also can't get under sleepers or body scanners so soap is very important. Thankfully, there's one UNTIL SOMEONE STEALS IT so if a way is made to make soap, balancing should make it have several uses so more soap needs to be made FROM THE MEAT OF THE THIEVES

 

You can clean the blood under the table with soap. To make soap, is smelly and requires a chemical reaction. I am going to update the map stocks in medbay soon, and I will include spare soap in secondary storage.

 

Wheelchairs has been brought up. Crutches too.

 

Wheelchairs will be available in secondary storage when I work on the map. Crutches are not ingame.

 

Edit: Like making the patients locker feasible. Don't allow surgery to be done on someone with a hardsuit on or at least nothing other than the patient clothes provided in the lockers to do surgery. It's weird scalpeling someone's chest when there's armor that can stop bullets.

 

EVA suits do not stop bullets, but I agree with having to strip patients before surgery.

 

[TeDGamer]

 

Glad to hear your feedback bone.

 

However, mass spectrometer doesn't tell you how many units of a medicine is in the unit. Only a scanner does and I have accidentally killed a few people with just 15 units of alkysine ( it went to 12 u when the body is dead)

 

So you can tell what's inside the beaker (even with a reagent scanner), won't know how many units.

 

Alkysine and ryetalyn seem a bit bugged if you put it in the cryo cells in anyway. Causes toxin damage to their death even if only 3 untis of the combined medicine is inserted.

 

Never knew cloning was meant to be time consuming as a balance. I guess this way people don't kill themselves so they get new bodies.

 

Didn't know about the EVA suits not stopping bullets but I just meant that you can somehow cut through it and leave no marks while other things it somehow buffs its resilience.

 

I have a few other posts and suggestions that I've posted. I would like if you can provide feedback on those too.

 

[Portinari]

 

The problem with careful monitoring of drug administration is patient volume. By midshift there are usually over a dozen patients that need varying forms of treatment, leaving doctors enough time only to give each one basic first aid and some medicines to treat their damage, with speed being the key to saving lives.

 

With this new overdose system treating patients becomes more time-consuming, requiring doctors to monitor pills given...and one overdose doubling or even tripling the time needed. And this is considering experienced doctors, say nothing of new or inexperienced doctors who think popping multiple pills is a perfectly acceptable way of healing someone...then watching as their patient dies before their eyes.

 

In short, expect a lot more people to die in medbay.

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Guest

[Fj45]

 

Medbay was bad enough before the overdose system, we already had huge lines of people and shitty medics. It really seems like it will cause far more problems then it will fix and do nothing to improve gameplay.

 

Just another reason to never go to medbay and use ghetto surgery/medicine.

 

[Portinari]

 

Medbay was bad enough before the overdose system, we already had huge lines of people and shitty medics. It really seems like it will cause far more problems then it will fix and do nothing to improve gameplay.

 

I think this sums up how most people feel about the overdose system nicely.

 

Medbay couldn't keep up with patient load before...and with this change new and inexperienced doctors who don't know the overdose limits will become worse than useless...killing patients by just giving two dexalin or two antitoxin pills.

 

[Fj45]

And what about antags? They suddenly have a huge amount of highly deadly medical supplies, supplies that are extreamly simple to obtain and it would be damn simple to "treat" someone and just watch em die! Sec also can't arrest them for having a medkit.

[Portinari]

 

Not to mention they can stop virtually anyone from being cloned by just giving them 15 units of alkysine and clonex, killing the clone extremely fast, while claiming it was an accident.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if non-antag doctors do this purely by mistake.

 

[Streaky Haddock]

 

but guys guys guys

 

you don't realise, this is a good thing

 

if you don't like someone, FEED THEM DONK POCKETS

 

[Habalabam]

 

Does vomiting rid you of toxins in the system if they were ingested orally? I believe it should and OD on pills should cause vomiting.

 

The cryo cells should not OD, no matter what amount is in the beaker. The beaker is a reservoir/reserve storage, not dosage.

 

I think the OD system is good. This encourages use of IV, which I think is underused today. To one-shot inject a patient with the entire recovery medication is a bit far from how medicine is practiced.

It sounds, though, like there are some balancing issues still to be worked out. But I like the idea of patients in bedposts getting their IV and being monitored. It would also give the nurse more interaction.

 

 

But it seems that it is easy to lose the overview. And it seems that the doctors should have better access to panels showing the chemicals currently in the system.

Maybe the dialysis feature on the sleeper should include a reagent scanner for common medication.

Maybe blood samples should be easier for a doctor to do.

Maybe there could be a wristband or something that patients wore in the medbay that basically worked as full suit sensor, but the data was available through medical PDA. It could also be used to indicate actual patients on the medical HUD.

Maybe the sleepers should have a feature to work as a dosage machine (kind of IV) for medicine manually added by the doctor.

 

[Bone White]

 

I think the OD system is good. This encourages use of IV, which I think is underused today. To one-shot inject a patient with the entire recovery medication is a bit far from how medicine is practiced.

 

As a Chemist/Doctor/Chief Medical Officer, I prefer liquid medication to pills.

 

[Habalabam]

 

I think the OD system is good. This encourages use of IV, which I think is underused today. To one-shot inject a patient with the entire recovery medication is a bit far from how medicine is practiced.

 

As a Chemist/Doctor/Chief Medical Officer, I prefer liquid medication to pills.

 

IV is still liquid. The factor added by the OD system is that you need to take the medication in portions as opposed to all in one go.

I don't think that is unreasonable and good gameplay to be had.

 

I occasionally play as CMO. In my experience the problem with patients coming in later in the shift is not that they are so many, but that the medical staff has this strange habit of vanishing.

 

Some patients may need to keep taking prescription pills after leaving medbay to recover fully/faster.

 

[IcyV]

 

Just as a note for further discussion on the topic: I will be adjusting OD as soon as I can. Probably along the lines of doubling or tripling the current required amounts. We'll see where it goes as I get feedback.

 

If anyone wants actual conversations regarding it, I'm usually on the IRC. Just PM and bug me there and you can get your ideas across better.

 

[Portinari]

 

I think the OD system is good. This encourages use of IV, which I think is underused today. To one-shot inject a patient with the entire recovery medication is a bit far from how medicine is practiced.

It sounds, though, like there are some balancing issues still to be worked out. But I like the idea of patients in bedposts getting their IV and being monitored. It would also give the nurse more interaction.

 

Regardless of how good this sounds on paper it ignores the reality of how rounds progress. Later shift issues are due to a combination of both large numbers of patients and only a few doctors staying at their posts, the rest wandering off or going SSD. Even with pills it's difficult for a doctor to manage more than three patients at once, especially if they are critically injured. Forcing us to use liquid medication in IV's (with monitoring, no less) reduces this number to one patient at best, and when you only have three working doctors and upwards of 10 or more patients in your average round you can start seeing how without pills this quickly falls apart.

 

In fact, it was falling apart before overdose mechanics were introduced.

 

[Habalabam]

 

If we are in the situation where lack of medbay personell and abundance station emergency leave less than one doctor per three critical patients, then I think people should expect that things will be hectic.

 

My experience is not just on paper. I play doctor and CMO.